The Oppressive Growing Police State

[Thundercrack85]

Forced perhaps. But by the nature of our existence more so than anything else.

I have a somewhat Hobbesian world view.

Nature requires a constant struggle. We're always hungry and thirsty, and constantly live in fear of death.

Once those factors change... who knows. But for the time being, and the immediate future, humans are going to continue being the way they are.

[Alex_Spider]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack85

Forced perhaps. But by the nature of our existence more so than anything else.

I have a somewhat Hobbesian world view.

Nature requires a constant struggle. We're always hungry and thirsty, and constantly live in fear of death.

Once those factors change... who knows. But for the time being, and the immediate future, humans are going to continue being the way they are.

Nahh to depressing for my tastes . I just hope we don't nuke out the hell of this planet in a short time soon before we change.

[Kahran Ramsus]

Originally Posted by Alex Spider

Yes i agree with that. They even did blood sacrifices. The difference however is that this is a sick religious psychosis that was imposed by the higher authorities of their respective empires. Also the killing among the tribes was necessary in some cases for one group to survive over another due to the lack of recourses. And its not like every day they were killing one another.

We don't kill each other every day either. Not on a large scale anyways.

Originally Posted by Alex Spider

Are you 100% certain about this?

About as close as one can be with regards to history. This is very well documented. The vast majority of the population in the America's were wiped out without even directly contacting the Europeans. There were numerous reports during the exploration of the interior of North America of ghost towns and villages that had died off because of disease such as smallpox that the Europeans had (unknowingly) brought over and which they had no immunity too. This had spread from the few settlements along the coast where the Europeans had directly contacted the native tribes. Not that there weren't conflicts with the Europeans in which people were killed, but it was relatively minor compared to the numbers killed by disease. It is estimated that about 90% of the native population of North America was killed by disease from 1500 to around 1600.

A good example is the Timucuans which were the people living in my neck of the woods. They went from roughly 200,000 when Ponce de Leon first landed in 1513 to 50,000 in 1595, virtually entirely because of disease. Hernando de Soto got into a couple of brief scraps with them, but there wasn't any real major conflicts with them until the early 18th century when the British and Creeks invaded their territory by which point the Timucuans numbered about 1000. They were virtually extinct by the time the Seminoles came down from Georgia in the late 1700s and took over their former territory.

[Kahran Ramsus]

For what its worth, most of the animal kingdom is about as bad. It is merely our capacity for destruction which is greater. Truly peaceful creatures (such as manatees) are pretty rare.

Just look at our national symbol. Bald eagles are infamous for being the bullies of the bird world.

[Thundercrack85]

Well, Ben Franklin suggested the Turkey, but everyone and their brother vetoed him.

I can sort of see why.

[Alex_Spider]

Originally Posted by Kahran Ramsus

We don't kill each other every day either. Not on a large scale anyways.

Oh, come on, the recent wars and the weapons of mass destruction have killed enough population than the past wars almost. Not to mention the indirect killings we watch take place in Africa, Palestine and other places in the world that we let in their misery.

Originally Posted by Kahran Ramsus

About as close as one can be with regards to history. This is very well documented. The vast majority of the population in the America's were wiped out without even directly contacting the Europeans. There were numerous reports during the exploration of the interior of North America of ghost towns and villages that had died off because of disease such as smallpox that the Europeans had (unknowingly) brought over and which they had no immunity too. This had spread from the few settlements along the coast where the Europeans had directly contacted the native tribes. Not that there weren't conflicts with the Europeans in which people were killed, but it was relatively minor compared to the numbers killed by disease. It is estimated that about 90% of the native population of North America was killed by disease from 1500 to around 1600.

A good example is the Timucuans which were the people living in my neck of the woods. They went from roughly 200,000 when Ponce de Leon first landed in 1513 to 50,000 in 1595, virtually entirely because of disease. Hernando de Soto got into a couple of brief scraps with them, but there wasn't any real major conflicts with them until the early 18th century when the British and Creeks invaded their territory by which point the Timucuans numbered about 1000. They were virtually extinct by the time the Seminoles came down from Georgia in the late 1700s and took over their former territory.

Actually i am not a big fan of the "official" history. And all those diseases happened exactly the time when we stepped on their ground? I think it is very convenient for the masses and the western world to believe that all those indigenous people just died (mostly) from diseases. I mean even Europe had in the past fatal plagues that killed a major number of the population but they weren't eradicated. Anyways i can see where you 're coming from. There's a truth in every side of opinions

[Thundercrack85]

Dude, it's settled science / history.

Europeans couldn't have killed that many Indians if they wanted to.

Don't forget that the plague took out between 80 to 200 million Europeans. There weren't even that many Indians. Not only that, but the Indians also had no immunity to other deadly European diseases, such as smallpox, chickenpox, typhus, etc.

[Alex_Spider]

It's funny though our arguments about the human nature remind me of the Planet of the Apes with all the talks about how "Evil" humans are and how they can never be civilized or learn to live in peace. Maybe we should give power to the Apes and Chimps and live under their mighty rule

[Kahran Ramsus]

Originally Posted by Alex Spider

Oh, come on, the recent wars and the weapons of mass destruction have killed enough population than the past wars almost. Not to mention the indirect killings we watch take place in Africa, Palestine and other places in the world that we let in their misery.

There are seven billion people on the planet. There is bound to violence just because of how many of there of us. And there hasn't been a major world war since 1945. What I mean is that individually most of us don't see these things personally on a daily basis, unless you live in a particularly bad neighborhood.

And all those diseases happened exactly the time when we stepped on their ground? I think it is very convenient for the masses and the western world to believe that all those indigenous people just died (mostly) from diseases. I mean even Europe had in the past fatal plagues that killed a major number of the population but they weren't eradicated.

Of course it wasn't a coincidence. The Europeans were the carriers. But it wasn't spread (for the most part, there was the occasional use of biological warfare) intentionally.

As for the plagues in Europe, the main Black Death outbreak of 1348-1350 killed about 60% of Europe's population. It took centuries for Europe to recover from that (it didn't reach its pre-Black Death population until the mid-1700s), but there were a couple of key differences between that and what happened to the native Americans namely that it wasn't quite as deadly and that the population of Europe was higher than that of the Americas to begin with. Europe was repopulated by the Europeans that had survived. The Americas were repopulated by the Europeans that had arrived during colonial times. The natives obviously didn't get entirely wiped out, there are many still around today, but they were never able to keep up with the population of Europeans (both American born and immigrants).

I'm not trying to make light of the atrocities that the Europeans performed on the Native Americans. There were many terrible things that were done to them. However, the idea that the Native Americans were all pacifists living in perfect harmony with nature until the white man came and killed them all is a complete fairy tale. One of the main reasons Pizarro was able to conquer the Inca Empire (the greatest of all Native American nations) was because he happened to arrive just when they got finished a bloody and brutal civil war. It finally ended in January 1532. Pizarro arrived in November the same year.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Soapy

I just searched the rules and couldn't find a rule that forbade police bashing. Maybe you could point me to it?

Well, I would be happy to write one just for you....but lets suffice it to say that it falls under trolling, and/or flaming....

Wow, just noticing, this is the ONLY post you have made in this discussion....


As far as the discussion goes, there are good and bad factions in all areas of life. I have yet to meet a police officer, or come in contact with any law enforcement that was not respectful, proud of what they do, and did it with the utmost integrity. I have been around a lot of different groups, FBI, Texas Rangers, MP's, city police, sheriff's department, and ATF. When I was in college getting my Criminal Justice Degree, many of these guys were in my classes getting their college hours to move up in rank. They also would be the first to tell you that they know that there are good and bad factions in all of their areas of law enforcement, but they work hard to weed those people out.....you just can't do it 100% of the time, even though that is the hope.

[Erzengel]

One of my closest friends who's a brother to me is a Police Officer and a fine good one.

While I won't deny that there aren't cops who are embarrassment to the shield. I'm sure there are quite a few citizens who are easily angered because one time they got a ticket.

[Alex_Spider]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Well, I would be happy to write one just for you....but lets suffice it to say that it falls under trolling, and/or flaming....

Wow, just noticing, this is the ONLY post you have made in this discussion....


As far as the discussion goes, there are good and bad factions in all areas of life. I have yet to meet a police officer, or come in contact with any law enforcement that was not respectful, proud of what they do, and did it with the utmost integrity. I have been around a lot of different groups, FBI, Texas Rangers, MP's, city police, sheriff's department, and ATF. When I was in college getting my Criminal Justice Degree, many of these guys were in my classes getting their college hours to move up in rank. They also would be the first to tell you that they know that there are good and bad factions in all of their areas of law enforcement, but they work hard to weed those people out.....you just can't do it 100% of the time, even though that is the hope.

You are right. The thing is though that the police contrary to another profession or service, is holding a gun. An improper and irresponsible use of the power they are granted, may result in the death of innocent lives. Or may result in a beating during an everyday questioning in your car by an unstable officer with many issues, or an unfair prosecution of a wrong person.

[Alex_Spider]

Originally Posted by Erzengel

One of my closest friends who's a brother to me is a Police Officer and a fine good one.

While I won't deny that there aren't cops who are embarrassment to the shield. I'm sure there are quite a few citizens who are easily angered because one time they got a ticket.

Yeah that happens too

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by Alex_Spider

You are right. The thing is though that the police contrary to another profession or service, is holding a gun. An improper and irresponsible use of the power they are granted, may result in the death of innocent lives. Or may result in a beating during an everyday questioning in your car by an unstable officer with many issues, or an unfair prosecution of a wrong person.

True, but I will not paint the great majority of law enforcement with the same brush that I paint the very few.....

Just as I would hope that people would not do the same in the area of education....EVEN THOUGH, I believe that we are at a far greater threat from horrible teachers, than we are from bad cops..... One holds the future of our country in their hands...

So, forgive me, if I find that our governments seemingly unending desire to focus on "gun issues" rather than "education issues" as a much bigger threat to this countries future...than a few bad cops.

[Alex_Spider]

Originally Posted by Kelly

True, but I will not paint the great majority of law enforcement with the same brush that I paint the very few.....

Just as I would hope that people would not do the same in the area of education....EVEN THOUGH, I believe that we are at a far greater threat from horrible teachers, than we are from bad cops..... One holds the future of our country in their hands...

So, forgive me, if I find that our governments seemingly unending desire to focus on "gun issues" rather than "education issues" as a much bigger threat to this countries future...than a few bad cops.

You got a point there. I concur that education is as important along with the health and medication services that get much neglected in many countries. The difference is just that those fields do harm in a more indirect and in a not so obvious way. Besides, blaming the police most is so much "cooler". lol

[SentinelMind]

Arrested for drinking Ice Tea?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbzUH...ature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXlnZbwfhXk

[Alex_Spider]

Originally Posted by SentinelMind

Arrested for drinking Ice Tea?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbzUH...ature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXlnZbwfhXk

Wow...that cop is a hell of a douche. "Handle me the can you're drinking, so I can examine it better". Jesus, what was all this hassle for? Did he wanted to have a sip? . Well to me it smells like another racism incident over a black person by a hothead cop.

[Marvolo]

Originally Posted by Alex_Spider

Wow...that cop is a hell of a douche. "Handle me the can you're drinking, so I can examine it better". Jesus, what was all this hassle for? Did he wanted to have a sip? . Well to me it smells like another racism incident over a black person by a hothead cop.

If there are laws against public drinking in an area and a cop suspects your are drunk they will sometimes ask to smell your beverage. Not that uncommon. You can refuse but if you don't have alcohol in the beverage then there is no reason to refuse unless you just want to be a stubborn ass-hat and make some senseless point.

[SentinelMind]

Was violently throwing the guy to the ground after not immediately vacating a business parking lot after lacking proof that a crime was committed appropriate?

[SentinelMind]

wow..
http://www.10news.com/news/navy-surg...lawsuit-043013

[Alex_Spider]

Originally Posted by Marvolo

If there are laws against public drinking in an area and a cop suspects your are drunk they will sometimes ask to smell your beverage. Not that uncommon. You can refuse but if you don't have alcohol in the beverage then there is no reason to refuse unless you just want to be a stubborn ass-hat and make some senseless point.

Come on now..The guy was pretty obvious he wasn't drunk. And some people have a high self pride to kneel before an authority for no reason just because they were ordered to do so, or handle a cup of lemonade for Christ's sake because it "might" have a sign of "alcohol" (I call this BS) . In this case the only stubborn ass-hat was the cop. Personally if I was in the guy's position I would throw it down and would tell him to pick it up if from the floor out of reaction to his harassment

[SentinelMind]

Welcome, Big Brother!!

More than half a century ago, Dwight D. Eisenhower warned Americans of the dangers posed by the country’s growing “military-industrial complex” – a phrase that entered instantly into everyday language.
“The total influence – economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the federal government,” the outgoing Republican president said. “We must be alert to the … danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific technological elite.”
More

Ike was chiefly warning about the power of the Pentagon and the big defence companies that had grown up around it. Today his prescience would be applied to America’s vast army of federally-employed data analysts and the hundreds of software companies they employ.
The US spends at least $80bn a year on intelligence alone, which is more than the defence budgets of all but a handful of countries.
Every day, 854,000 US civil servants, military personnel and private contractors are scanned into high-security government offices to do intelligence work, according to the Washington Post’s 2011 “Top Secret America” report. Up to 55,000 of these work for the National Security Agency, the vast eavesdropping centre that collects “metadata” on billions of US domestic telephone calls. Most are data analysts. Distributed across an archipelago of high security federal buildings in Virginia, Maryland and Washington DC, they toil anonymously in might be labelled America’s data-intelligence complex. The tools and abilities are exponentially different to anything that Eisenhower could have imagined. In his day spies would tap individual phones.



http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a1dd626c-c...44feab7de.html

Is there anybody doing anything about this? Besides a 20 minute "Rand Paul filibuster"?

[SentinelMind]

ACLU turns on Obama over NSA snooping.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/savage-aclu-turns-on-obama/

[Kelly]

I don't think I mind what they are doing as long as it is being done exactly as Obama has said.....the problem with that is, I don't trust Obama anymore and what he says.

[Schlosser85]

The fact is, it shouldn't be happening in the first place.