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View Poll Results: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3... | |||
Love it! |
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92 | 36.51% |
It's okay... |
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56 | 22.22% |
Hate it! |
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104 | 41.27% |
Voters: 252. You may not vote on this poll |
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#101 | |
Bald to the Bone
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,262
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We don't have super villains but we do have villains. Real world terrorists would make the Joker and Magneto blush. Just go watch some 9/11 videos. That was a murder plot straight out of a comic book.
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They see me rollin', they hatin.... Prof. X sittin' on Adamantium wheelchair rims, reading your stupid minds & laughing at your hair. |
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#102 |
Paper boi
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Latveria
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I disagree entirely but that's not what I want to draw attention to. You're ok with your first adjective to describe IM3 being hilarious? This wasn't Superhero Movie directed by Marlon Wayans. Every other Marvel movie had jokes, which is to be expected but I'd never call Cap, Avengers, etc "hilarious". Hopefully Marvel doesn't look at the box office numbers and think "Oh people must love the jokes!". If so, I hope they plan on releasing Director's Cuts with 70% less jokes.
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#103 | |
Bald to the Bone
Join Date: Feb 2010
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They see me rollin', they hatin.... Prof. X sittin' on Adamantium wheelchair rims, reading your stupid minds & laughing at your hair. |
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#104 |
Banned User
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 7,692
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This twist might've irked some people, but it's very much something that anyone who's intimately familiar with Joss Whedon's work ought to recognize, because it's exactly the kind of thing he would've thought of.
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#105 |
away for a while
Join Date: May 2007
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Posts: 31,161
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Subjective my friend depending on your point of view.
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#106 |
May the Force Be With You
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 82,111
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Too be fair, you could apply that to the films as well.
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#107 | |
Bald to the Bone
Join Date: Feb 2010
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And yes, Avengers was hilarious. There is as much comedy in that movie as there was in IM3. Thor was hilarious as well.
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#108 |
Bald to the Bone
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I don't think it really is. Do you think the ordinary guy in the Middle East likes living in fear of religious violence and terrorism? Terrorists are the bad guys everywhere.
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#109 |
away for a while
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To us, not to those who support them.
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#110 |
away for a while
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Depends on the film of course, but more often than not they're fairly black and white.
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#111 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,628
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Here is a good question, why is Mandarin Iron Man's arch nemesis? Is there a reason beyond the fact he is the most reoccurring villain from the Silver Age.
It seems like most of the iconic Iron Man stories have nothing to do with Mandarin: Doomsquest, Tony stark vs. Obadiah Stane, Demon in a Bottle, Extremist, Armor Wars, etc. I think Mandarin had one good story recently, but overall how how many great Mandarin stories have there been? This isn't a new problem, writers have been struggling with what to do with Mandarin for a while, David Michelinie, the man who reinvented Iron Man back in the 80s and made Iron Man the character he is today, didn't use Mandarin because he couldn't think of a way to update him. So this was a problem back in the 80s, with the guy who was responsible for making Iron Man such a compelling character. Also every time Mandarin gets adapted to other media, they try to change him to deal with the fact he is outdated: the 94 cartoon turned him into some white guy named Arnold Brock who was turned green by the rings, the more recent CGI cartoon turned him into a more sympathetic teenage book worm type and the 2007 Iron Man DTV turned him into Sauron from Lord of the Rings. It seems like Marvel is struggling more with Mandarin then other major Marvel villains, which is why he is not used as constantly. I think its hard for Mandarin to escape his Yellow Peril origins, even the name is kinda problematic, it sounds like something a white guy would look an Asian character to establish he is Asian. Its like naming an American character " Hank Apple Pie Base Ball Player". Also do Iron Man and Mandarin have a lot of interesting personal chemistry? There doesn't seem to be anything to connect them in their back story, like say Dr. Doom and Reed Richards or Xavier and Magneto, it seems like Mandarin just showed up one day to try and take over the world and Iron Man decided to stop him. Has Mandarin ever done anything to truly hurt Iron Man? Obadiah Stane managed to steal his company and Zeke Stane managed to nearly kill Pepper. |
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#112 |
May the Force Be With You
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 82,111
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A film can't tell you how to feel. You can take up any POV you want.
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"I've been running scams on the street since I was ten. I was kicked out of the flight academy for having a mind of my own. I'm going be a pilot. Best in the galaxy." |
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#113 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Dec 2012
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I`ve seen the movie today. I liked the movie overall but they turned the Mandarin into a joke... that was sad.
I understand why people are angry about that. He was great at the beginning of the movie, evil and all but then he became a joke.... bad writing right there! they didnt know what to do and made a joke out of him. It was funny though^^ but why mandarin, they could have used these jokes on any other person... All 3 movies had terrible villians. When i heard the Mandarin is in it, i was like " oh, thats gonna be good, he has all these powers" and then? nothing, joke character... real villians are fire People....WOW Looks like Robert Downey Jr. is getting bored with Ironman. But i hope he does come back, great actor, he makes every movie great. Without him Marvel is in trouble and they know it that`s why they gonna pay him what he wants. Last edited by !Superman!; 05-07-2013 at 08:00 PM. |
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#114 | |
Bald to the Bone
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I have always considered Iron Man's greatest enemy to be Tony Stark. Iron Man shouldn't be judged on it's villains, rather how interesting Tony is. Armor Wars, Demon in a Bottle, and most importantly (at least in my opinion) Civil War.
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They see me rollin', they hatin.... Prof. X sittin' on Adamantium wheelchair rims, reading your stupid minds & laughing at your hair. |
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#115 | |
Paper boi
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Latveria
Posts: 63,232
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Ok, well then we just have a semantic disagreement regarding what's hilarious. I can dig it ![]()
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Impatiently awaiting the resurrections of Professor X, Nova(Richard Ryder), and Exodus |
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#116 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 645
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America, built on a foundation of complacency. |
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#117 | |
Bald to the Bone
Join Date: Feb 2010
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RDJ doesn't really have much more to do with the role. People love him and he is the best part of every movie. A great actor shouldn't be tied down to two characters. The most important thing is him appearing in a couple more Avengers movies. Also, I don't think Marvel is in trouble. Everything they touch is gold. Thor 2 and Captain 2 will be successes. Guardians and Ant Man are the wild cards. The whole thing just makes Marvel exciting because they are willing to try different things. This is what seperates them from DC, which is completely top heavy. We are getting Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant Man movies while they struggle to bring Superman,Watchmen, and Green Lantern to the big screen.
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They see me rollin', they hatin.... Prof. X sittin' on Adamantium wheelchair rims, reading your stupid minds & laughing at your hair. |
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#118 |
Bald to the Bone
Join Date: Feb 2010
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There is a difference of being compliant and actively supporting murder of non-combatants. That is what terrorism is. It's not a good thing in any country.
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#119 | |
Bald to the Bone
Join Date: Feb 2010
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I thought the final fight was a pretty epic boss fight. Truth be told, there haven't been many of them in superhero movies. I can't think of any in any Batman or X-Men movie. Spider-Man is really the only one that comes close. Doc Ock vs. Spider-Man is still the best, in my opinion. Humor is subjective I guess but I think most people find these movies to be funny and amusing. There really isn't anything like an Iron Man movie in the genre and that's why they are special. Enjoy them while they last is what I'm saying. ![]()
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#120 | |
Superhero Psychiatrist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: GammaBase
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In the same way Luthor represents business & big industry as the antithesis to Superman's good ol' boy American values, or how the Joker's crazed anarchy is a stark contrast to Batman's rigid code of justice, The Mandarin's use of magic in tandem with technology shows a different spin on Stark and how he uses technology & science. Not to mention his appearance (at least originally) of ancient, mystical, Oriental regalia stood in contrast to Stark's modern, American sophistication. On top of that though, making The Mandarin actually Killian doesn't really make him all that different from Obadiah Stane or Justin Hammer in this movie universe. Just another disgruntled genius trying to get revenge on Tony for some type of perceived slight. I think a more faithful adaptation of The Mandarin would have been more interesting.
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#121 | ||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Plus ancient, mystical, Oriental regalia vs. modern, American sophistication doesn't work anymore, it might worked in the 30s, but now it seems like an old, out dated and possibly racist. That's the problem, if you went for that contrast you might as well kiss the Asian market good bye and deal with a ton of complaints at home. That is not good business and it would be fool hardy to think Marvel or Disney should do that. It seems you are giving reasons not use Mandarin with that description, it fits the "Yellow Peril" villain almost completely. Its far easier to use Joker and Lex Luthor in a modern context then it is Mandarin, otherwise the writers wouldn't be struggling to use the character as much as they have in the past. Also magic vs. technology is an okay contrast, but it is doesn't seem as meaty as the other contrasts you mentioned. Its pretty thin on its own and Mandarin just hasn't got the same level of writing as those other villains you mentioned to make it work. Plus misuse of technology is a constant theme in the Iron Man comics and movies, if Mandarin is just a magical character, he doesn't really fit in with that theme, does he? The fact that Mandarin has not really fit in with a lot of the themes that were developed in the 80s has kinda locked him out of many of the more iconic Iron man stories. If there were not problems with the Mandarin character, wouldn't David Michelinie have used him back in the 80s? Quote:
Besides if Shane Black didn't like the Mandarin, would the studio forcing him to use the Mandarin have been a good idea? It would have been Venom in Spider-Man 3 all over again. Last edited by The Overlord; 05-07-2013 at 08:12 PM. |
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#122 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Feb 2012
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#123 | ||
Superhero Psychiatrist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: GammaBase
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Also Killian's motivations for issues with Stark are no more solid or meaty. He was slighted at a party? That's it? And what's the deal with Air Force One and attacking the President? Because the VP wants him to or he wants to use the VP as a puppet? Isn't his beef supposed to be with Stark entirely? He becomes a super powered entity from Extremis, what threat would the military or the government be to him? His whole thing is for Tony to help with Extremis, but say Pepper accepted his offer early in the film, then are we to believe the Ten Rings organization and everything he's been planning, presumably since IM1, was for naught? Quote:
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"I don't give a **** what you say. If I go out there and miss game winners, and people say, 'Kobe choked, or Kobe is seven for whatever in pressure situations,' Well, **** you. Because I don't play for your ******* approval. I play for my own love and enjoyment of the game. And to win. That's what I play for." - Kobe Bryant "As of right now, I don't know what he do good, cause what may work on another fighter is not gonna work on me." - Floyd Mayweather Last edited by Doc Samson; 05-07-2013 at 08:46 PM. |
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#124 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Canada
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The point is, its purely subjective what terrorism is. Plenty of innocent non-combatants have been killed in Iraqi and Afghanistan, which probably makes the coalition seem an awful lot like terrorist. And thus villains and heroes have become blurred, yadda, yadda. |
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#125 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 1,173
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No one is arguing terrorists aren't horrible people. They are villains to us democratic, non Islamic folk that don't support their beliefs on killing "infidels." However, that is a VERY different subject than comic book villains. bin Laden doesn't equal MODOK. |
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