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Old 05-08-2013, 07:45 PM   #576
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Well I put in my 20$, instead of just saying there's a problem with 8.4 mill$ i'd rather be a part of the solution.

I figure I bootleg most of these episodes because A i'm canadian and it comes out vastly later, and B i don't get the channel it's on.

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Old 05-08-2013, 07:53 PM   #577
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic Fan View Post
The first words that come to mind.... well intentioned morons.

This reminds of fans trying to pay for season 5 of "Enterprise"

I think just one episode of enterprise is like 2 million dollars. So yeah.......

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Old 05-08-2013, 09:02 PM   #578
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

From worldsfinestonline.com:

New “Young Justice: Invasion – Game of Illusions: Season Two, Part Two” Two-Disc DVD Set Announced

May 8, 2013

Warner Home Video has provided the initial details and package artwork for the freshly-revealed Young Justice: Invasion – Game of Illusions: Season Two, Part Two DVD release, hitting shelves July 16, 2013. The two-disc set will include the final ten episodes from the second season of the acclaimed Cartoon Network series. The press details provided by the studio cite these episodes as the “final episodes building to an epic finale.” The suggested retail price for Young Justice: Invasion – Game of Illusions: Season 2 Part 2 is $19.97. Initial details are below.

Young Justice: Invasion – Game of Illusions: Season 2 Part 2

Synopsis: The action, intrigue and thrills continue with Season Two Part Two of Young Justice! Watch as The Reach, spearheaded by the quick-talking Ambassador and backed by the muscle of Black Beetle, continues its manipulation of a trusting public while maintaining its shadowy maneuvering with The Light. Meanwhile, team members Robin, Blue Beetle and Impulse go undercover to investigate LexCorp and its newfound partnership with The Reach, the results of which could shift the balance of power forever. So report in for 10 all-new adventures, as the risks have never been greater and the conflicts never so far-reaching. The epic finale will shatter everything you know!


Program Content:
1. Cornered (aka Fool’s Errand)
2. True Colors
3. The Fix
4. Runaways
5. War
6. Complications
7. The Hunt
8. Intervention
9. Summit
10. Endgame (aka Spin)

The release will also include a digital comic and three bonus cartoon episodes.

Young Justice: Invasion – Game of Illusions: Season Two, Part Two will hit shelves on July 16th, 2013 with the suggested retail price of $19.97. The two-disc set will include the final ten episodes from the second season of the acclaimed animated series.

http://www.worldsfinestonline.com/20...set-announced/

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Old 05-09-2013, 02:28 AM   #579
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

It is about time that WB home video announced the release of the second season. The first season were released in 4 volume "soccer mom" releases before sanity prevailed and now the second season was released in two. While I imagine some will want a box set of the whole show and may wait on it, WB doesn't always do that treatment for every show, or if they do it takes them several years. After all, complete series box sets were not assembled for "TEEN TITANS" or "THE BATMAN", and both ran 5 seasons (and hell, the latter aired on network TV and likely had higher ratings).

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that this is getting released in July instead of waiting 'til September when the game comes out, which I presumed they would. Of course this way they have a product to keep the property fresh in some people's minds for the summer, and then the game at the start of the fall.

I wish they'd have had some better features than "bonus episodes" of other shows, such as commentaries or some featurettes - even Sony shelled out for two featurettes for their "TSSM" Season 1 set - but at least the episodes will be out. Frankly, I still have to decide whether I liked the show enough to own. I'm limited by funds and the list of shows/movies I'd like to own on DVD could probably circle the moon.

As for the SMGO.tv situation, it is good that they released an official statement or video of their meeting and plans. I can't say I disagree with WB in that I sincerely have doubts that a Kickstarter campaign could literally fund production of a new SEASON of episodes. If I were in SMGO.tv's position, I'd have set a goal for a DTV (which could be funded with perhaps $2-3 million instead of $10 million) which is a far more reasonable goal and a goal which actually wasn't contrary to WB home video policy in regards to animated DC cartoons until roughly 2006-2007. Going through with the strategy even after WB refused to aid them could backfire and I wonder what happens to all the money they collect if they don't hit their goal.

More to the point, while devotion to a show is nice, and I wish "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN" had gotten this level of attention even if the corporate deals between Disney and Sony pretty much killed it more than any ratings issues, I also wonder if some fans or leagues of them have to reach the acceptance phase of mourning, to step away from "bargaining". It is a shame to not get a third season, but we at least got 42 episodes, which is more than many shows get and only 10 episodes less than, say, "X-MEN EVOLUTION" got.

And, naturally, whether or not I dig up the last replies from nygma and go on another round.

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:14 AM   #580
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Hey dread can you go to the avengers assemble forum and give me your thoughts on the pic taken directly from the show?

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Old 05-09-2013, 07:57 PM   #581
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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After all, complete series box sets were not assembled for "TEEN TITANS" or "THE BATMAN", and both ran 5 seasons (and hell, the latter aired on network TV and likely had higher ratings).
You might be surprised on that last one.

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Going through with the strategy even after WB refused to aid them could backfire and I wonder what happens to all the money they collect if they don't hit their goal.
They said through paypal: "Your account is only charged if we reach our goal and have a signed production contract."

Though the situations with non-approved rewards will probably be a bigger issue for them for reasons that have already been explained. Though apparently those rewards were already a part of the proposed deal to WB that they turned down.

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More to the point, while devotion to a show is nice, and I wish "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN" had gotten this level of attention even if the corporate deals between Disney and Sony pretty much killed it more than any ratings issues, I also wonder if some fans or leagues of them have to reach the acceptance phase of mourning, to step away from "bargaining". It is a shame to not get a third season, but we at least got 42 episodes, which is more than many shows get and only 10 episodes less than, say, "X-MEN EVOLUTION" got.
Correction we got 46 episodes.

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And, naturally, whether or not I dig up the last replies from nygma and go on another round.
And here I thought I had been forgotten.

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Old 05-11-2013, 08:33 PM   #582
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Young Justice: Legacy update

Quote:
We finally have an official release date for the full trailer.

On May 25th at 10am Pacific time, we'll be premiering the all new Young Justice: Legacy trailer!

We know September 10th seems so far away, but retailers are evaluating the game right now, and they will be attending E3 and visiting the Little Orbit meeting room in June to discuss orders for the game.

So we need your help!

For the ne
xt couple months please spread the word.

What can you do?

First, tell your friends, your family, and even strangers to come Like the Young Justice: Legacy Facebook page, so they can also get game updates as we release more information.


Second, if you like the game then pre-order it.


We need to send a message to video game retailers around the world that there's an audience for this game.
Go go Amazon.com/Gamestop/Walmart/BestBuy and click that pre-order!

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Old 05-12-2013, 09:16 AM   #583
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Young Justice: Legacy update



Go go Amazon.com/Gamestop/Walmart/BestBuy and click that pre-order!
Are they putting the PC version on Steam? If so, I might go for it!

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Old 05-13-2013, 12:19 AM   #584
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Drz has the right idea. With all due respect, SMGO.tv is not going about this in a constructive way. I can't help but agree with WB that their goal of crowd funding AN ENTIRE SEASON is too lofty, and every time I watch the head guy on the video explain their objectives, his words blur into a geek version of a Magneto speech. "YJ will be back, by any means possible!"

A REAL way to show WB there is life in this franchise is to pre-order and then actually buy that last DVD set and the video game in droves. If "Legacy" gave a HALO game a run for its money, you bet WB would notice. Or if the last DVD set suddenly outsold a ton of those DCU DTV things, or hell, landed on some general DVD top 10 list and stayed there for a while. THAT would perhaps do more to get a YJ DTV done than a Kickstarter, IMO. I'm cynical and doubt either will sell in such volume. But, prove me wrong, Internet.

By this stage as the weeks before "YJ:L" shrink, I find myself having detached a bit from the show. I still enjoyed it, and to a degree miss it, but I may not miss it as much as I miss, say, "SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN".

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You might be surprised on that last one.
Possibly. I just assumed because network TV tends to have higher ratings, even on Saturday mornings. Dwayne McDuffie often bragged about how well "STATIC SHOCK" did in ratings on Kid's WB compared to "JL/U", even on CN when it initially aired in syndication.

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Correction we got 46 episodes.
Hence why posts done after 2 a.m. after 8 hour shifts suck sometimes.

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And here I thought I had been forgotten.
Nah, I was just busy and I wanted to allow others to get in some discussion/debate so we didn't hog.

Speaking of which, for old's times sake...

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That doesn't change the fact that it contradicted Flash's "fastest man alive" tagline if you take it literally.
Fine, so Barry and Wally's speed was equal in pre-Crisis comics. But until 1986, the latter was dying every time he used it so he stopped and frequently would retire. Thus, it's not quite equal and Barry at least isn't really challenged since he could use his powers without dying.

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He was debunking a rumor of something he never brought up @ Wondercon. Why bother debunking it, IF he got the desired reaction? He could just bring up THAT issue with Jason Todd and Tula in another post that brings it up. A rumor of Greg hating Carnage got started during his time producing Spectacular Spider-Man, he didn't feel the need to debunk it UNTIL it was brought up in the queue.
I try not to read too much into why Weisman addresses a particular point on his Station 8 blog. He was debunking rumors, and obviously THAT was arguably the most memorable part of the finale and it tied into the "will ____ come back" sort of questions. Plus, the rumor mill did address it and claim he'd said that "Wally was definitely dead" and he was correcting that he made no such blunt claim and it was never asked.

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They were willing to make us believe Kaldur had become evil only to disprove it. It also depends on the execution of said narrative gymnastics. For example, a spell of some sort is made by someone at the north pole gets combined with Dr. Fate's aura that Wally gained back in Denial. The result becomes Wally accidently being brought back to life. Hardly THAT complicated as far as narrative hoops is concerned.
I do find it curious that you consider the "speed force" an undesirable plot mechanic, yet arguably equally hokey or absurd things such as "Dr. Fate aura" or magic spells in the North Pole (seriously, why would ANYONE do that?) are perfectly acceptable. I'd argue they're just as complicated as some magical dimension where speed energy comes from. The only difference is what was introduced and what wasn't in the series. And of course, the reason why death scenes should only be done if you REALLY mean it is because undoing them usually involves stuff which is ridiculous even by comic book standards. A noble death always beats out a ****y resurrection, especially in a format where a resurrection isn't a requirement for publishing enterprises.

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Who said he had nowhere to go? I think your putting too much emphasis on whether someone is faster or not. Not to mention you could've made Barry being the one who died and Wally takes up his mantle. While you might preach things like "he's not the fastest man alive", "Impulse is faster"; I think majority of the fanbase wouldn't have cared.
If you phrase it like that, no, they wouldn't. I always wonder if the current powers-that-be at DC Entertainment seriously have considered their decision to make the Flash who has existed since 1986 (and who as a character debuted far earlier) into an also-ran and then a non-entity despite many alternate media appearances. In order to remember reading Barry Allen as the Flash in the comics of the time, one would have to be over 30 and perhaps closer to 35. While that's by no means old, it's perhaps older than a large chunk of the audience DC is courting. And it presumes that even readers in their mid 30's who recall Barry would trade Wally for him straight up.

Hell, in the sneak preview for "JUSTICE LEAGUE: THE FLASHPOINT PARADOX" included in "SUPERMAN: UNBOUND", one of the producers literally admits that Barry Allen was a stock, almost generic character in the Silver Age and that a lot of humanizing elements had to be inserted retroactively. You could argue much the same for Hal Jordan.

Greg Weisman wanted the finale to have punch and to paraphrase statements, that was why he went with icing off Wally. He felt Barry wouldn't have had the same kick and it would have been a very different finale had that happened. Clearly, they wanted the second season to end on a very bittersweet, somewhat tragic tone. Victory against ultimate enemies which didn't come cheaply. Would people still be talking about the finale and making emo fanart or fan videos if Barry had bitten it instead and the legacy was handed off as planned? No. And it's for that reason that I genuinely doubt if given the chance, Weisman & Vietti would undo it. The mourning and recovery from that would give a lot of material to work with for Artemis/Tigress. A revival would make all of that worthless down the line.

I still don't believe a Flash slower (by a vast degree) than his kid sidekick altogether works for very long. Sure, experience counts for something, but once Bart gets it, there's no reason for Wally to continue if he can't ever get faster. But we'll have to probably agree to disagree on that.

Quote:
That changes it's argued status as perhaps the show's biggest standalone episode how?
The subplot with the party did hint vaguely at Miss Martian's true status. There was a meeting held about the "mole". If "SECRETS" is a standalone episode, then it's not too bad. I still enjoyed it.

Quote:
I call it borderline sexist because of you feeling the need to say things like this multiple times: "Don't let all the carrying fool you - he was her partner, not the other way around. That's the difference."

Also saying SHE was the dominant one in their relationship just because she might've got more screen time is a narrow minded P.O.V. That has more do with whether a character might've been more important to the show at a certain moment, but that itself has NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR RELATIONSHIP.
The show obviously devoted more focus to Artemis. She mattered far more to the consistent subplots of both seasons than Wally did - even if she didn't even make a full appearance until episode 6. We learned far more about her family and her interactions with them than we ever did about Wally - to the point that his sadness about disappointing his parents by dying almost comes off as hollow, because we barely saw them talk or see what life was like with them. They're just stock parents. Which is a shame because in the comics, Wally's father resented him to the point that he literally sold him out to enemies, which would have made quite an episode.

Artemis appeared more dominant when they were courting in Season 1, being the one who was always ragging on Wally (or, of course, telling him what he needed to hear, which nobody else was willing to tell him). We saw so little of their time together during the relationship before they're split up so Artemis can be Tigress and so Wally can do nothing until his death scene. In general Artemis comes off as a stronger character. Which isn't to say they didn't work as a couple, I just saw it as one of rare couples in Western animation where the guy wasn't the lead of it. I wasn't trying to imply sexism.

Quote:
Your missing the point, they wanted Wally to play a role distant from the team, so they wouldn't second guess whether Artemis was dead or not. Wally insisting doesn't mean Dick would just tell him regardless. Also they weren't THAT undermanned in that episode.
"SATISFACTION" attempted to establish via dialogue that Bart hung out with Wally and saw him as a mentor. Then "SUMMIT" attempted to cash in on that exposition with the passing of the sidekick mantle. Thus, the show was trying to establish that Wally cared about Bart, yet he does nothing to try to rescue him once he knows he's been taken alongside Jaime and so on in "BEFORE THE DAWN".

Quote:
The "random robot crisis" was a big enough emergency where if Red Volcano got the Amazo parts it would create bigger problems. And the problem was big enough because the speedsters were occupied and the zeta tubes were down *BOOM* less excuses for him not going there WHEN few can get there as fast as he can. Besides it would still match up with "The Fix" in Nightwing lightening up on how strict he was with who knew about "Artemis's death". Saying he wasn't willing to suit up because Dick wouldn't want him to break his role has nothing to do with Wally's insistence.
It still would have involved using Wally in a plot without any character he ever interacted with which had absolutely nothing to do with anything which was going on. It would have felt random and forced. It would have felt more organic to have used him more in an episode which was either larger scale and/or an episode which involved more characters he typically interacted with. "BEFORE THE DAWN" was it. It would have also complicated the point of that episode, which was Luthor manipulating the kids into joining him. It would have reminded me too much of "TIES THAT BIND" from "JLU", where the first episode to feature Flash in a speaking role after an entire season involves him on a generic adventure on Apokolips with Mr. Miracle and Barda, characters he'd never spoke to before or since. Beyond the "facing something out of his element" novelty, it makes it appear like a disposable outing.

The road not taken, of course. Weisman & Vietti erred on the side of caution with his appearances for the second season, but I do think it was an err. Extra stuff would have only enhanced their already tragic finale. Such is life.

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:58 AM   #585
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Well, seeing how the main reason for cancellation surrounded the sales of merchandise, I'd say that if these games/videos/others sold well it'd get their attention but I doubt it'll bring it back.

WB seems pretty set now. Nothing that happens, no move in heave or earth will make them change their minds at this point :/ And it seems that the actors and creative people have moved on as well seeing how their career demands it. You can't just yank these people out of whatever jobs they happen to be doing at the time of "redeployment". If the show came back, it would have an all new cast and probably an all new creative team meaning it'd be a different show. I say that they let TT: Go and BTB run their courses and set up a new show - maybe a new Justice League - and do it right with the same foresight and all that other stuff that made YJ what it was.

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:59 AM   #586
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Well, seeing how the main reason for cancellation surrounded the sales of merchandise, I'd say that if these games/videos/others sold well it'd get their attention but I doubt it'll bring it back.

WB seems pretty set now. Nothing that happens, no move in heave or earth will make them change their minds at this point :/ And it seems that the actors and creative people have moved on as well seeing how their career demands it. You can't just yank these people out of whatever jobs they happen to be doing at the time of "redeployment". If the show came back, it would have an all new cast and probably an all new creative team meaning it'd be a different show. I say that they let TT: Go and BTB run their courses and set up a new show - maybe a new Justice League - and do it right with the same foresight and all that other stuff that made YJ what it was.
Well said.

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:59 PM   #587
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Well, seeing how the main reason for cancellation surrounded the sales of merchandise, I'd say that if these games/videos/others sold well it'd get their attention but I doubt it'll bring it back.

WB seems pretty set now. Nothing that happens, no move in heave or earth will make them change their minds at this point :/ And it seems that the actors and creative people have moved on as well seeing how their career demands it. You can't just yank these people out of whatever jobs they happen to be doing at the time of "redeployment". If the show came back, it would have an all new cast and probably an all new creative team meaning it'd be a different show. I say that they let TT: Go and BTB run their courses and set up a new show - maybe a new Justice League - and do it right with the same foresight and all that other stuff that made YJ what it was.
Well said... we need to let the show go, and let's hope they bring Greg back for a Justice League show.

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Old 05-13-2013, 09:27 PM   #588
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

If this is the end there might as well be a few laughs on the way out -

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:



















And if you think that last one was scary this one'll blind you -

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:





You can post artist queensara your thoughts at - http://queensarwa.deviantart.com/

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Old 05-13-2013, 10:10 PM   #589
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

I would participate in crowdfunding if I thought success would mean WB'd get behind the show. I think they'd just **** up by not promoting the show enough all over again

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Old 05-14-2013, 04:18 PM   #590
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Well said... we need to let the show go, and let's hope they bring Greg back for a Justice League show.
I'm kinda through with comic book to TV adaptations. Let him return to the world he created, "Gargoyles", be it a continuation or a spin-off. I'd rather see more original creations in animation at this point than the umpteenth comic book adaptation now.

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Old 05-15-2013, 02:22 AM   #591
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Exclamation Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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I'm kinda through with comic book to TV adaptations. Let him return to the world he created, "Gargoyles", be it a continuation or a spin-off. I'd rather see more original creations in animation at this point than the umpteenth comic book adaptation now.
I do agree on that; however, even some of those aren't always an assured bet. MAN OF ACTION's "GENERATOR REX" only lasted 3 seasons and was axed this year (albeit after 60 episodes, something "YOUNG JUSTICE" fans could only dream of). The powers that be seem to prefer comic adaptations if it's going to be more serious fare and not goofy kiddy stuff. And, of course, merchandising potential. The dilemma of course is aside for some blips, action figures just don't sell like they did in the 1980's or 1990's; technology is causing kids to outgrow them sooner than even a decade ago.

Originality is always great to see, though, regardless of whether this is a creator owned project or a comic adaptation, at least so long as it is well executed and makes sense.

As an addition, while I'd also like to see more original franchises and universes, I would note that I'd like to see different comic adaptations if we must get them. It's about 3 years old, but I bought the "FIREBREATHER" DVD of the TV movie that CN produced back in 2010, which is an adaptation of the Image Comic by Phil Hester and Andy Kuhn, and it wasn't bad at all. I've seen types like Batman, Superman, the Teen Titans, even Spider-Man a gazillion times already. It'd never happen but I'd be down for a Greg Weisman produced/story edited "CAPTAIN ATOM" series. Let's see some new faces get the chance at TV serialization besides the same ones. Although, admittedly, corporate reality makes this almost as rare as original creations sometimes seem.

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Old 05-15-2013, 03:18 AM   #592
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Are they putting the PC version on Steam? If so, I might go for it!
Yep when they announced it would be coming to PC they immediately mentioned Steam.

10 days till Young Justice: Legacy trailer!


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Old 05-16-2013, 12:33 AM   #593
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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I try not to read too much into why Weisman addresses a particular point on his Station 8 blog. He was debunking rumors, and obviously THAT was arguably the most memorable part of the finale and it tied into the "will ____ come back" sort of questions. Plus, the rumor mill did address it and claim he'd said that "Wally was definitely dead" and he was correcting that he made no such blunt claim and it was never asked.
Again he debunked something he never answered. Greg has said ad nauseum that he's willing to lie by omission. If he got the desired reaction (if Wally is never coming back), why bother making any effort in debunking it? He's not going to gain anything by spreading false hope, if the intent is him being dead and keeping him that way.

Quote:
I do find it curious that you consider the "speed force" an undesirable plot mechanic, yet arguably equally hokey or absurd things such as "Dr. Fate aura" or magic spells in the North Pole (seriously, why would ANYONE do that?) are perfectly acceptable. I'd argue they're just as complicated as some magical dimension where speed energy comes from.
I don't know, why do 5 wizards go to Kanoake Island of all places to perform the spell they did in Misplaced? There can be multiple reasons WHY someone might go there.

As for the Speed Force, one of Greg's latest responses puts it best: “how is Speed-Force different from Strength-Force? Or Heat-Vision-Force? Or Flight-Force? Or Shrink-Down-Force? Or Any-Actual-Super-Power-Force?
To some degree, you either buy into super-powers or you don't. At least, that's my opinion. The Speed-Force seems an unnecessary complication. Harder to get my head around than the original power its trying to explain. I mean, why should speed even HAVE a force?”

Sure Dr. Fate's powers might be complicated, but they're a crucial part to his character. Is any character going to lose something drastic if the speed force gets taken away? There's complicated, then there's needlessly complicated. Which the speed force IS.

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And of course, the reason why death scenes should only be done if you REALLY mean it is because undoing them usually involves stuff which is ridiculous even by comic book standards. A noble death always beats out a ****y resurrection, especially in a format where a resurrection isn't a requirement for publishing enterprises.
Your assuming that Wally was killed beyond a shadow of a doubt and that there was nothing there that shows that he might NOT have been killed.

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And it's for that reason that I genuinely doubt if given the chance, Weisman & Vietti would undo it. The mourning and recovery from that would give a lot of material to work with for Artemis/Tigress. A revival would make all of that worthless down the line.
I don't think it would make it all worthless. Let me break it down for you. Lets say Wally was transported to a planet somehow via the chrysalis energy and in season 3 his work off Earth becomes a crucial plot cog in season 3. Greg said they were going to do another time skip. Lets say it was for five years. And we only learn he got there then. The rest of the world would've been moving on without him in that slot of time. Even if Wally gets back to Earth, he's NOT getting that time back, especially if something with Artemis happens between that time, but his life in college has been thrown off the tracks.

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I still don't believe a Flash slower (by a vast degree) than his kid sidekick altogether works for very long. Sure, experience counts for something, but once Bart gets it, there's no reason for Wally to continue if he can't ever get faster. But we'll have to probably agree to disagree on that.
By that same token there's no reason for Tim Drake to continue since it seems the Bat Family members aren't slowing down anytime soon. You also make it sound like Wally's speed couldn't find SOMEWAY to become “enhanced” or that something wouldn't happen to Barry and/or Bart down the line.

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The subplot with the party did hint vaguely at Miss Martian's true status. There was a meeting held about the "mole". If "SECRETS" is a standalone episode, then it's not too bad. I still enjoyed it.
Your enjoyment changes its status how?

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The show obviously devoted more focus to Artemis. She mattered far more to the consistent subplots of both seasons than Wally did - even if she didn't even make a full appearance until episode 6.
And there was ONE constant reason for that, Sportsmaster being a part of the light. In season 2 I'm sure Artemis was chosen for ONE reason by Dick, to have her “death” cause dissent among the light and her father. He was a constant for both seasons, now that he's no longer a part of the light, would Artemis be as heavily prominent in season 3 and beyond? We saw with Superboy in season 2 that there's no guarantees.

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We learned far more about her family and her interactions with them than we ever did about Wally - to the point that his sadness about disappointing his parents by dying almost comes off as hollow, because we barely saw them talk or see what life was like with them. They're just stock parents. Which is a shame because in the comics, Wally's father resented him to the point that he literally sold him out to enemies, which would have made quite an episode.
Wally's parents were just there to enhance his normalcy that's ALL they needed to be shown for. Artemis's parents required more screen time. Also the line from Wally about them being disappointed was meant for us to feel sad for him, NOT his parents.

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Artemis appeared more dominant when they were courting in Season 1, being the one who was always ragging on Wally (or, of course, telling him what he needed to hear, which nobody else was willing to tell him).
Artemis correcting him was over petty things most of the time, the only time it was a requisite was in Denial when she calls him on his reckless flirting almost costing them their lives. Also Wally was good at giving as good as he took.

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"SATISFACTION" attempted to establish via dialogue that Bart hung out with Wally and saw him as a mentor. Then "SUMMIT" attempted to cash in on that exposition with the passing of the sidekick mantle. Thus, the show was trying to establish that Wally cared about Bart, yet he does nothing to try to rescue him once he knows he's been taken alongside Jaime and so on in "BEFORE THE DAWN".
Again I think your reading too much into that. If Bart meant THAT much to Wally don't you think he would've mentioned him as an individual in Darkest instead of referring to him as one of many captured members of Dick's team?

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It still would have involved using Wally in a plot without any character he ever interacted with which had absolutely nothing to do with anything which was going on. It would have felt random and forced. It would have felt more organic to have used him more in an episode which was either larger scale and/or an episode which involved more characters he typically interacted with. "BEFORE THE DAWN" was it.
In the context of the role Dick wanted Wally to play, him interacting with a lot of people in Before the Dawn or Cornered makes no sense to me. In Runaways a situation forces itself that Dick has to call on Wally because he has FEW to no options. You can have a subplot that shows how Wally is coping with the distant role Dick wants him to play away from his friends on the team. Show him going in to talk to Dick because Dick is not allowing him to help in any way, and how it's driving him nuts that Artemis is out there and Wally feels he should be doing something to help the team. Thus Wally gets a chance to make a difference AWAY from the team at Star Labs.

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It would have also complicated the point of that episode, which was Luthor manipulating the kids into joining him.
That point NEEDED an entire episode to get THAT across? Just like Blue, Black, and Green interacting. Did we NEED to see them interacting when that point would've been made later on in Complications AND Intervention? Of all the episodes that COULD'VE been condensed down to give Wally a subplot, and one where his involvement would make sense IN CONTEXT, Runaways is the only one that fits the bill IMO.

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It would have reminded me too much of "TIES THAT BIND" from "JLU", where the first episode to feature Flash in a speaking role after an entire season involves him on a generic adventure on Apokolips with Mr. Miracle and Barda, characters he'd never spoke to before or since. Beyond the "facing something out of his element" novelty, it makes it appear like a disposable outing.
Outside of him, do you think many people in the League would've given Barda and Scott the time of day to listen to their plight the way he did?


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Old 05-18-2013, 08:29 AM   #594
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

And they're still at it lol...

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Old 05-18-2013, 11:05 PM   #595
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

It's not like anything else keeps this thread going.

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Old 05-20-2013, 02:28 AM   #596
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Originally Posted by Midnight Black View Post
And they're still at it lol...
I usually give it a few days or a week or something to allow others to chat. Besides, until more LEGACY tidbits come out, there isn't much more to chat about.

Onward...

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Originally Posted by nygma619 View Post
Again he debunked something he never answered. Greg has said ad nauseum that he's willing to lie by omission. If he got the desired reaction (if Wally is never coming back), why bother making any effort in debunking it? He's not going to gain anything by spreading false hope, if the intent is him being dead and keeping him that way.
I still think you're reading way too much into it. Weisman has also stated several times that even with shows that are seemingly canceled, he rarely likes to divulge secrets about planned plots because he never knows when the chance to revisit the property will come, and/or there's no way to know how well said plan would have been executed without it being fully hashed out, scripted, etc. He wanted to clear up some rumors and probably covered what came to mind as an extension of that.

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I don't know, why do 5 wizards go to Kanoake Island of all places to perform the spell they did in Misplaced? There can be multiple reasons WHY someone might go there.
Roanoke Island was the setting of the first English colony in the New World back in the 16th century. They vanished under mysterious circumstances. Obviously, Weisman intended to connect that to some actual mysticism via Klarion (who I believe dates to that period anyway). Ergo, at least for "MISPLACED", that area was picked for its actual historical mysterious factor.

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As for the Speed Force, one of Greg's latest responses puts it best: “how is Speed-Force different from Strength-Force? Or Heat-Vision-Force? Or Flight-Force? Or Shrink-Down-Force? Or Any-Actual-Super-Power-Force?
To some degree, you either buy into super-powers or you don't. At least, that's my opinion. The Speed-Force seems an unnecessary complication. Harder to get my head around than the original power its trying to explain. I mean, why should speed even HAVE a force?”

Sure Dr. Fate's powers might be complicated, but they're a crucial part to his character. Is any character going to lose something drastic if the speed force gets taken away? There's complicated, then there's needlessly complicated. Which the speed force IS.
I'm aware of Weisman's opinion of the "speed-force" and his omission of it for this universe; it actually dismays me when fans seem to predict that Wally would return via it online when it's highly improbable that Weisman would ever use it in the show. Pick another theory, fellas.

I was simply bemused by the rejection of that as a ponderous contrivance, but details such as "residual Dr. Fate magic aura" or strange summoning circles in the arctic are perfectly acceptable. Why does he have to have an aura from Dr. Fate? By that logic, Kaldur and Zatanna should have one, too, since they also donned the helmet. Yet it was never addressed, used, mentioned, or brought up. My point is that I guess whichever straws one grasps to in this regard probably relate to personal taste.

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Your assuming that Wally was killed beyond a shadow of a doubt and that there was nothing there that shows that he might NOT have been killed.
Wow, now there's some grasping at straws. I mean it is fascinating to see some people on a tumblr pick apart some screen shots, but at this point I do believe a notable section of the fan base is going through the 5 stages of mourning and they get stuck somewhere around "denial" and "bargaining".

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I don't think it would make it all worthless. Let me break it down for you. Lets say Wally was transported to a planet somehow via the chrysalis energy and in season 3 his work off Earth becomes a crucial plot cog in season 3. Greg said they were going to do another time skip. Lets say it was for five years. And we only learn he got there then. The rest of the world would've been moving on without him in that slot of time. Even if Wally gets back to Earth, he's NOT getting that time back, especially if something with Artemis happens between that time, but his life in college has been thrown off the tracks.
First it was Dr. Fate magic aura, now he's been zapped to other planets? Somewhere, fan fiction or deviant art beacons!

Wally wasn't a crucial plot cog in Season 1 (insomuch that his development aided Artemis along). He certainly wasn't one in Season 2. I sincerely doubt it was coming in Season 3 after a bloody death scene which broke the Internet in half. One should accept what they got from him in the show.

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By that same token there's no reason for Tim Drake to continue since it seems the Bat Family members aren't slowing down anytime soon. You also make it sound like Wally's speed couldn't find SOMEWAY to become “enhanced” or that something wouldn't happen to Barry and/or Bart down the line.
In fairness, Tim Drake in the old days was the sidekick who was probably the closest to the "world's greatest detective" in terms of smarts and deductive skills than Todd or Grayson were. He was also the one who was the hacker, and used the bo-staff. The dilemma with alternate media adaptations is they tend to merge the details of legacies and just attach them to the founder. In fairness to "YJ", while they made Grayson a computer hacker like in previous cartoons, at least they allowed Drake to keep his bo-staff, unlike other shows (even going back to "B:TAS") where Grayson was just handed it. I noticed it and appreciated the detail.

I also think it's dumb for Robin to be a legacy character and have always wondered why Batman's other sidekicks couldn't come up with their own names, but I know corporate reality means there ALWAYS must be a Robin. But, I digress.

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Your enjoyment changes its status how?
My definition of a standalone episode is one which can be viewed in any order on the schedule and it doesn't effect the overall narrative. While "SECRETS" maybe isn't as case sensitive as other episodes, I think it has its place on the schedule (even if Wally really had to be ignorant to not notice how lovey dovey Conner and Megan were while putting on their costumes).

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And there was ONE constant reason for that, Sportsmaster being a part of the light. In season 2 I'm sure Artemis was chosen for ONE reason by Dick, to have her “death” cause dissent among the light and her father. He was a constant for both seasons, now that he's no longer a part of the light, would Artemis be as heavily prominent in season 3 and beyond? We saw with Superboy in season 2 that there's no guarantees.
I sincerely doubt Tigress in a third season would sit out 8 straight episodes and not factor into anything until it was time for a death scene. Conner wasn't as vital a character in Season 2, but he was still a regular and consistent presence.

I hadn't thought of that angle for Nightwing choosing Artemis. Given how he seemed to make up plan details as he went along, I do question whether he considered turning Sportsmaster and Cheshire against the Light as an objective. I mean, the Light could always just hire another grunt to replace him (which they did). I always figured he chose Artemis because he couldn't bare losing Megan for an extended period given her powers in general and needing her to occasionally help fake Superman appearances with Conner. Of course, he also didn't plan for her to zap Kaldur and get kidnapped to fix him. Also, Artemis had experience dealing with underworld ties so she could successfully go undercover; she didn't like it, but she grew up around those elements. Megan didn't.

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Artemis correcting him was over petty things most of the time, the only time it was a requisite was in Denial when she calls him on his reckless flirting almost costing them their lives. Also Wally was good at giving as good as he took.
Debatable, but moot.

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Again I think your reading too much into that. If Bart meant THAT much to Wally don't you think he would've mentioned him as an individual in Darkest instead of referring to him as one of many captured members of Dick's team?
Considering that scene was Wally's high point until blowing up to save the world, hindsight makes a lot of it worthless to be honest. He was dead wrong about Kaldur, and had Nightwing seriously considered his theory, their plans would have been even more botched. While Kaldur did perform his cover perfectly, he seemed to never waver as to what side he was on or fret about losing himself (as Artemis did). So, I don't really mind that he didn't mention Bart by name. I still think he had a place in "BEFORE THE DAWN", but obviously that's debatable.

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In the context of the role Dick wanted Wally to play, him interacting with a lot of people in Before the Dawn or Cornered makes no sense to me. In Runaways a situation forces itself that Dick has to call on Wally because he has FEW to no options. You can have a subplot that shows how Wally is coping with the distant role Dick wants him to play away from his friends on the team. Show him going in to talk to Dick because Dick is not allowing him to help in any way, and how it's driving him nuts that Artemis is out there and Wally feels he should be doing something to help the team. Thus Wally gets a chance to make a difference AWAY from the team at Star Labs.
"CORNERED" feels more interchangeable since Despero was a fairly one note threat and the key detail of the Reach aiding the League and looking good for PR could have been covered in no end of ways. It also dealt with Bart's immediate recovery from being kidnapped as well as the others, and featured characters Wally knew like Capt. Marvel, Zatanna, Conner, and Megan.

The show wanted to have its cake and eat it too. Wally was perfectly willing to don the costume again for emergencies dealing with family and lovers in "Bloodlines" and the last two episodes, but not for other matters.

I see "RUNAWAYS" as a poor place for him. He would have had to interact with characters he'd never met before or again. I suppose Red Volcano at least was a villain he'd faced before, but even that's a stretch. Maybe if the episode were willing to devote its A-plot to him, but it wasn't. Frankly, no episode in Season 2 was. Even in "Bloodlines", Bart is the A-plot.

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That point NEEDED an entire episode to get THAT across? Just like Blue, Black, and Green interacting. Did we NEED to see them interacting when that point would've been made later on in Complications AND Intervention? Of all the episodes that COULD'VE been condensed down to give Wally a subplot, and one where his involvement would make sense IN CONTEXT, Runaways is the only one that fits the bill IMO.
If your point is that the show didn't need to invest as much time into fleshing out the runaways or the Beetles as they did to get their points across, then I don't disagree. However, the show's writers clearly felt otherwise. It was totally needed to give Arsenal 2-3 episodes of focus. It was totally needed to allow the runaways to star in 2 episodes. Blue Beetle was so vital that he could barely skip an episode.

Weisman admitted that Wally did have more scenes and lines, but they were cut out of fear of showing their hand. While I feel that was an err and think any additional time would have only added to the punch of "ENDGAME", it is what it is.

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Outside of him, do you think many people in the League would've given Barda and Scott the time of day to listen to their plight the way he did?
Barda and Mr. Miracle were JLU members. Any superhero on the roster could have helped them out with only minor edits to the script. There was nothing essential with placed Flash there besides the novelty of having him fight a bizarre off planet threat usually reserved for Superman. And a novelty wares thin.

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Old 05-20-2013, 05:02 AM   #597
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Weisman admitted that Wally did have more scenes and lines, but they were cut out of fear of showing their hand. While I feel that was an err and think any additional time would have only added to the punch of "ENDGAME", it is what it is.
I don't understand why they limited Wally's role even more in S2 considering "Bloodlines" made it painfully obvious how redundant and useless Wally was as a speedster in the grand scheme of things with Bart's arrival. Add to the fact that Wally's biggest contribution to the show was being Artemis' love interest, a role he took about as far as he could, then it was clear where they were going. It's why I always said if a speedster was going to go, it'd be Wally. So like you said, they most likely lessened the impact of his death by having him sit out for basically half the season (which is a death flag in itself), and even managed to turn at least a small portion of the fandom against the character for sitting out until the end for no explained reason on the show.

And I really think they misplayed Wally's death going back to the first season. As has been mentioned before, they supposedly dealt a bit with Wally's issues of inferiority to Barry in the tie-in comic, but it seems like a pretty big thing to completely leave out of the show considering the only reason he died was simply because he wasn't fast enough to live. But outside of Dick's quick jab about how Wally got bloody noses when he tried to vibrate through objects ("Welcome to Happy Harbor"), I can't recall anything else saying that Wally was slower than Barry, or was bothered by that fact in the first season. If someone doesn't read the tie-in comic, it really feels like they missed out on a crucial part of his story. Of course, they tried to fit it in "Bloodlines", but I don't think it worked for a few reasons - most notably being that there was a five year gap between seasons, and not only does it come out of left field, but it comes across as just an excuse to kill the character off instead a big part of his story since it was pretty much ignored in S1.

Not to mention Wally's insecurities were suppose to be vital to the character (at least in S1) and one of the big reasons why they paired him with Artemis, but honestly, Wally always struck me as the member of the team who was most comfortable with who they were and their role on the team given what they showed on the show itself. I know during some of our discussions when the first season was still airing I defended the episode "Denial" when you said it was one of the show's weaker episodes, but now that everything has played out, I agree that it appears it was a waste to focus on Wally in that episode (the episode was important for the Helmet of Fate). I previously thought it was one of those episdoes that would hold up better as a whole than on its own, but very little came from it in regards to Wally's development besides the show telling us he's a stubborn idiot that needed Artemis to be his keeper.

But as you've mentioned, it is what it is. And I really did enjoy the show (first season was great, season two took a step back but was still good) even if I found things frustrating time from time when it came to Wally.

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Old 05-20-2013, 11:56 AM   #598
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Wiesman is working on the new Star Wars toon...

http://www.slashfilm.com/animated-se...ey-xd-in-2014/

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Old 05-21-2013, 02:40 AM   #599
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Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

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Originally Posted by Dread View Post
Roanoke Island was the setting of the first English colony in the New World back in the 16th century. They vanished under mysterious circumstances. Obviously, Weisman intended to connect that to some actual mysticism via Klarion (who I believe dates to that period anyway). Ergo, at least for "MISPLACED", that area was picked for its actual historical mysterious factor.
You missed the point entirely. Just like with THAT, how do you know there wouldn't be a deeper reason for why a spell would be performed at the north pole?

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I'm aware of Weisman's opinion of the "speed-force" and his omission of it for this universe; it actually dismays me when fans seem to predict that Wally would return via it online when it's highly improbable that Weisman would ever use it in the show. Pick another theory, fellas.
Where did I state the speed force, and where did someone else in the link below mention it?

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I was simply bemused by the rejection of that as a ponderous contrivance, but details such as "residual Dr. Fate magic aura" or strange summoning circles in the arctic are perfectly acceptable. Why does he have to have an aura from Dr. Fate? By that logic, Kaldur and Zatanna should have one, too, since they also donned the helmet. Yet it was never addressed, used, mentioned, or brought up.
Where did I reject the notion of those two NOT ALSO having "Fate's Aura", it was something I brought up due to the notion that Nabu let Kent Nelson's soul stay in the helmet when all he would do inside there was object to any BODY that Nabu wanted to keep. If that's all he would do, why would Nabu bother? The notion is basically this, if Nabu let Kent Nelson's soul survive in some way, BECAUSE of his doing, why should we dismiss the same possibility's for other's who have worn the helmet? Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch; but it's not a total a** pull. And just because it wasn't mentioned (when there is no reason to bring it up at that moment I might add), doesn't mean they couldn't/wouldn't later.

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Wow, now there's some grasping at straws. I mean it is fascinating to see some people on a tumblr pick apart some screen shots, but at this point I do believe a notable section of the fan base is going through the 5 stages of mourning and they get stuck somewhere around "denial" and "bargaining".
So basically your dismissing ANY POTENTIAL VALID POINTS because it came from TUMBLR? That's the same kind of prejudice that's applied to Spectacular Spider-Man when it's naysayers said it was nothing more than a kiddie cartoon BECAUSE of it's art design. You call it straw grasping, but offer NO COUNTERPOINTS.

Regardless of where it came from I think it brings up many valid points. If you're going to kill Wally off why not make it as obvious as possible? Why add things like him just disappearing, or have the scarab say "cease" then have Jamie's response be "cease what?", when there's nothing stopping the scarab from choosing a word that CAN'T be interpreted differently? Not to mention having a big circle appear as if it was a door before Wally disappears? The "aftermath/debris" didn't come from Wally's body, it came from the blink and you'll miss it circle that formed infront of him THEN VANISHED after he did. THAT doesn't strike you as the least bit suspicious?

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First it was Dr. Fate magic aura, now he's been zapped to other planets? Somewhere, fan fiction or deviant art beacons!
Is there some written law that I have to stick to one theory when throwing out possibilities? Though if I had to pick one that has the most logic it's him turning into zeta beam radiation and teleported somewhere unprovoked. At least that's my theory.

It's also based on how Wally in the comics ended up on a different planet in a different dimension AFTER he pushed Superboy-Prime into the speed force. While saying goodbye to Bart he passed the Flash torch on to him. Here, he passed the Kid Flash torch on to Bart.

There's also the fact that Bart's not gonna stop aging, and you made a ruckus that as Wally gets older the name Kid Flash wouldn't fit. Why should Bart be immune to this dilemma? Where does he go after that in the next time skip? Impulse, would be a step backwards. Flash? Why would they have HIM become the Flash and NOT Wally when Wally's time as Flash is the most iconic part of his character? Bart's time as The Flash was so short (it lasted less than a year) and unmemorable that he was killed because all the rogues kicked him to death.

My theory is that Bart might get killed off, along with Barry and Wally comes back to find himself the fastest man alive, BUT ALONE amongst speedsters. We at least know Barry's death was on Greg and Brandon's minds as a possible death in season 2. I know that Bart's sounds like a stretch, but an argument trying to convince me that Bart has more claim to being the Flash than Wally does is an even bigger stretch given how forgettable his run was.

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Wally wasn't a crucial plot cog in Season 1 (insomuch that his development aided Artemis along).
It aided both of them along. Screen time doesn't always make one more important or more interesting than the other.

Also what foreshadowing did we get that Jamie was going to be a big deal in season 2 from SEASON 1? For that matter what foreshadowing did we get of Black Manta being Aqualad's father would be a big deal in season 2?

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He certainly wasn't one in Season 2.
In one scene in the finale, he contributed more than Superboy's 10 appearances did this season. Again, it's quality NOT quantity that matters.

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I sincerely doubt it was coming in Season 3 after a bloody death scene which broke the Internet in half.
Pffft, you act like THAT is the first time this show broke the internet in half. What about the time skip, or EVIL Aqualad? You're assuming that THAT was an actual death scene, when all you've got to show for it IS the characters reactions to it, AS IF they know the full detail's of WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

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One should accept what they got from him in the show.
How is it unhealthy to be more open minded to other possibilities?

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In fairness, Tim Drake in the old days was the sidekick who was probably the closest to the "world's greatest detective" in terms of smarts and deductive skills than Todd or Grayson were. He was also the one who was the hacker, and used the bo-staff. The dilemma with alternate media adaptations is they tend to merge the details of legacies and just attach them to the founder. In fairness to "YJ", while they made Grayson a computer hacker like in previous cartoons, at least they allowed Drake to keep his bo-staff, unlike other shows (even going back to "B:TAS") where Grayson was just handed it. I noticed it and appreciated the detail.

I also think it's dumb for Robin to be a legacy character and have always wondered why Batman's other sidekicks couldn't come up with their own names, but I know corporate reality means there ALWAYS must be a Robin. But, I digress.
Yeah, you digressed so much that you missed the point ENTIRELY. Why does Tim continue if we apply the same standards to him, that you applied to the Wally situation?

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My definition of a standalone episode is one which can be viewed in any order on the schedule and it doesn't effect the overall narrative. While "SECRETS" maybe isn't as case sensitive as other episodes, I think it has its place on the schedule
The main plot involved something that had NO BUILD UP before and nothing in the episode of it played such a huge role in the show AFTER that. Everything addressed like the mole meeting, got addressed again in Insecurity and Performance. The only thing that truly meant something continuity wise was Artemis learning about Conner/M'gann.

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(even if Wally really had to be ignorant to not notice how lovey dovey Conner and Megan were while putting on their costumes).
And Artemis wasn't?

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I sincerely doubt Tigress in a third season would sit out 8 straight episodes and not factor into anything until it was time for a death scene.
You find a cohesive way that involves Sportsmaster being involved in the plot DESPITE cutting his ties to The Light THEN I'll believe your claim. Otherwise, your basing this on history WHEN Superboy's contributions to Season 2 has already proven that there's no guarantees.

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Conner wasn't as vital a character in Season 2, but he was still a regular and consistent presence.
And what did his presence amount to overall in season 2? Again see above in how Wally had a bigger impact on the season despite his number of appearances compared to Conner.

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I hadn't thought of that angle for Nightwing choosing Artemis.
You seriously think Artemis wouldn't of brought that up in why he didn't choose M'gann, Conner, or Barbara when they've proven they are perfectly capable of having there deaths move Kaldur forward AND watch his back? Or Wally for that matter in asking "Why does it have to be Artemis?"

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Given how he seemed to make up plan details as he went along, I do question whether he considered turning Sportsmaster and Cheshire against the Light as an objective.
More like he was forced to improvise a situation OR make a move depending on what the Light does next. Also anything that might create dissension among The Light is an opportunity I think he would take.

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I mean, the Light could always just hire another grunt to replace him (which they did).
That would stop Crusher from doing something in retaliation WHY? Because it certainly didn't.

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I always figured he chose Artemis because he couldn't bare losing Megan for an extended period given her powers in general and needing her to occasionally help fake Superman appearances with Conner. Of course, he also didn't plan for her to zap Kaldur and get kidnapped to fix him. Also, Artemis had experience dealing with underworld ties so she could successfully go undercover; she didn't like it, but she grew up around those elements. Megan didn't.
Artemis's underworld ties NEVER came into play in terms with success in that. Also Kaldur NEVER had underworld ties, plus Conner AND M'gann have also proven capable in that situation as shown in "Terrors". I don't think Barbara isn't capable of those tasks either. Again what other reasons would Dick have for going to someone in retirement for this gig?

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Debatable, but moot.
In other words, you either got nothing; or it's so far down into the argument that you don't have the motivation to go into details on WHY.

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Considering that scene was Wally's high point until blowing up to save the world, hindsight makes a lot of it worthless to be honest. He was dead wrong about Kaldur, and had Nightwing seriously considered his theory, their plans would have been even more botched. While Kaldur did perform his cover perfectly, he seemed to never waver as to what side he was on or fret about losing himself (as Artemis did). So, I don't really mind that he didn't mention Bart by name. I still think he had a place in "BEFORE THE DAWN", but obviously that's debatable.
Yeah until he got mind blasted and needed to be saved, he did his job perfectly.

Why does it matter whether Wally was right or wrong in that argument? He didn't know the things Dick did, and whether he was wrong later doesn't mean it wasn't a valid point IN THE MOMENT. Also saying Wally blew up is inaccurate. As the link above pointed out, you don't become translucent before exploding or before you disintegrate. The best you can say while STILL BEING accurate is that Wally vanished.

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"CORNERED" feels more interchangeable since Despero was a fairly one note threat and the key detail of the Reach aiding the League and looking good for PR could have been covered in no end of ways. It also dealt with Bart's immediate recovery from being kidnapped as well as the others, and featured characters Wally knew like Capt. Marvel, Zatanna, Conner, and Megan.
Perhaps, but you pretty much dismiss the fact that Despero might of been used again despite being trapped on War World now. Also you never address WHY Dick would call upon Wally or why Wally would go against those wishes when Artemis probably wouldn't want him to do anything to make things more difficult than they have to be.

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The show wanted to have its cake and eat it too. Wally was perfectly willing to don the costume again for emergencies dealing with family and lovers in "Bloodlines" and the last two episodes, but not for other matters.
Again, your ignoring context. Those things happened during Artemis's stint and as Greg stated, Wally's role during that, "is to go about his life, as if he's mourning his dead girlfriend. Not, literally, running around, fighting crime.

Nightwing did not invite Kid Flash to participate until the briefing that took place just before "Summit". Obviously, as soon as Nightwing called, Wally was there."

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I see "RUNAWAYS" as a poor place for him. He would have had to interact with characters he'd never met before or again. I suppose Red Volcano at least was a villain he'd faced before, but even that's a stretch. Maybe if the episode were willing to devote its A-plot to him, but it wasn't. Frankly, no episode in Season 2 was. Even in "Bloodlines", Bart is the A-plot.
I'd argue that Wally was the most important character among the 70 some characters that appeared in Endgame.

I never said Runaways was the most ideal episode for him to appear in, BUT in my mind it's the most valid one in which Dick would call upon Wally for help since aside from Blue Beetle he was the closest one there, and when the possibility of a catastrophe like Red gaining Amazo's parts could take place that WASN'T the time for Dick to be making excuses in not calling upon any possible resource at that moment. The fact that he didn't was an out of character moment for him IMO, especially since Dick had no way of knowing if Blue had enough juice to take RV down, let alone stop him from getting the parts. Wally could at least snatch and run with the parts AT THE VERY LEAST.

You keep saying that he should've appeared in Cornered but offer NO CONTEXT that fits within why Dick should call upon him, or why Wally should break his role when the league and the team weren't undermanned in that episode. All your trying to do is fit a square into a circle IMO. My proposal for him to appear in Runaways isn't the most ideal (I never said it was), but it wasn't made without some consideration of the context Greg and Brandon put into Wally's role during Artermis's stint.

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It was totally needed to give Arsenal 2-3 episodes of focus.
You might not like either Roy, but that doesn't mean other fans didn't. I actually didn't mind Arsenal that much; and they wanted to explore the consequences of that characters situation after being iced for 8 years, and who knows if he wouldn't have meant something big for season 3?

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Weisman admitted that Wally did have more scenes and lines, but they were cut out of fear of showing their hand. While I feel that was an err and think any additional time would have only added to the punch of "ENDGAME", it is what it is.
I remember him saying that they cut lines from and ABOUT Wally, but not scenes altogether.

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Barda and Mr. Miracle were JLU members. Any superhero on the roster could have helped them out with only minor edits to the script. There was nothing essential with placed Flash there besides the novelty of having him fight a bizarre off planet threat usually reserved for Superman. And a novelty wares thin.
On the first part of those two being members, first I will let Dr. Cox speak for me.

Second Wally specifically said that he was sure those two weren't members. Also both of those two sought Superman for his speed, so there goes those other non-Flash members that are interchangeable with the script.

Regardless of whether they were members or not, J'onn said the league couldn't get involved in the war between New Genesis and Apokolips. How many besides Wally would let that get in the way of helping people if they asked for it?

Go back and watch that JLU episode, all that stuff I mentioned above is in there.

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Old 05-21-2013, 03:42 AM   #600
J the Drafter
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 37
Default Re: Young Justice Cartoon - Part 9

Hey guys. I've been busy with other stuff for a while, but I'm back for a bit. Dread, I have a response for something you said a long while back. If I remember correctly, you claimed that the heroes had no choice but to be the Light's pawns, since reacting is the job of superheroes in superhero stories. Greg didn't need to write the Justice League that way. He could have given them a strong detective bent and created a group well-equipped to sniff out clandestine threats. Greg didn't do that because such a group would have had the means to thwart the Light's dominance throughout the series. I know the heroes did detective work in spots, but they were much more optimized for combat than for detective work.
On a different note, a certain scene from Attack on Titan amuses me when I compare it to the part in "Failsafe" where Wally rages at Artemis' death. If that bit in "Failsafe" was really intended to show that Wally views Artemis in a romantic light, then what's going on in the clip ahead? (Warning for some mild spoilers. There aren't any big reveals here, but it does give away a bit of the plot for Attack on Titan.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZARSl7RZt4Y

Ach. That was not a particularly show-friendly post, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there. There are parts of the series I enjoyed, but I'm a pretty critical person by nature, and I felt the need to make my thoughts heard.

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