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Old 05-18-2013, 04:43 PM   #651
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I've been saying this for years.

I call his performance "Jack Nicholson as Jack Nicholson as The Joker".

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Old 05-26-2013, 10:59 PM   #652
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by zeroapoc View Post
I've been saying this for years.

I call his performance "Jack Nicholson as Jack Nicholson as The Joker".
In other words, he nailed it. Just like Michael Caine was Michael Caine as Alfred and was a great choice.

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Old 05-26-2013, 11:29 PM   #653
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Nope. Jack didn't nail it in my eyes.

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Old 05-27-2013, 12:08 AM   #654
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Nope. Jack didn't nail it in my eyes.
What about Caine?

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Old 05-27-2013, 09:35 AM   #655
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Jack nailed it as much as any other actor. Romero nailed the early 60's goofy Joker, Jack nailed the murderous funnyman, Ledger nailed the complete psychopath. Take your pick which one you prefer.

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Old 07-04-2013, 12:34 PM   #656
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
I'm read joker for long long time and when I picture joker the voice I hear in my head is hamill when I see joker I see 'the killing joke' and 'the return of the joker' (B:tas feature film)

THAT to me is joker. so who tells esoteric jokes (only he unders the punchline) he is dark witty charming and deadly.

Nicholson gave a good performance but I don't think his character had depth I was think good 'Nicholson performance' rather than 'THAT's joker' you know the scene where batman/bale interrogates the dirty cop THAT was batman to a tee, bale NAILED it right there and then.

so basically Nicholson gets a 'A' for effort but doesn't quite 'get' the joker. here's hoping nolan reads the killing joke and watches the return of the joker the quintessential joke stories and ledger gives the performance of his career.

anyone else agree?

I agree Hamill's voice and personality is the definitive Joker to me. I know I'm going to get flamed her but both Nicholson's and Ledger's Jokers don't hold a candle to him IMO. To me TAS Joker nailed it in writing , personality and the voice spot on.


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Old 07-04-2013, 12:44 PM   #657
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Each person's Joker fits the respective take on Batman. I like what Hamill said here:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


Little bonus at the end for people.

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Old 07-04-2013, 01:24 PM   #658
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
. That's why Batman takes the blame for Dent's crimes. "The Joker cannot win".

Again obvious and you missed it.
But the Joker did win by getting the living breathing continuing to act incorruptible symbol to ruin his value as a symbol for a dead and gone martyr.

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Old 07-04-2013, 01:27 PM   #659
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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But the Joker did win by getting the living breathing continuing to act incorruptible symbol to ruin his value as a symbol for a dead and gone martyr.
That's not what Joker was after. He wanted to crush Gotham's soul. Batman prevented that. Hence why he did not win. So how can he have won if he didn't get what he was after?

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Old 08-01-2013, 07:03 AM   #660
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I like both Nicholson and Ledger take on the character, but I can't stop thinking what Pacino could have done in his prime days. The guy just strikes me as the early 40's Joker. His eyes, his smile, the hair and the thin face are exactly how I envision an ideal Joker.
Shame he didn't got to portray him in the big screen.



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Kinda off topic but googling pictures I was reminded how many lame portrayals of the Joker exist both in comics and in films or in cosplay costumes. Like, I don't get this obsession with people dressing up like Joker and making him look ridiculous, not scary at all and yes in many cases like a cross dresser-transgender wannabe.

An example here but you get the idea.



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And yes I hate the Arkham games look also. I just prefer his first appearance where he was a badass gangster type of mastermind, capable of a dirty physical fight with the Batman, over the exaggerated cartoonish depictions being scrawny and all that. Ugh, not to mention the ugly deformed depictions like Morrison's leatherface look.



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Old 08-01-2013, 08:13 AM   #661
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I hate Jim Lee's Joker but i really do not get what you mean with transgender/crossdresser wannabe. That, along with sadomasochism have always been arround the Joker. It has been well-established that he reinvents himself, he is not only 1 person but multiple with the same basic characteristics, of a clown. Clowns originate from the Ancient Greeks and the rites of Dionysus where sexuality and transgenderism was something pretty common, especially in festivals and in theatre. So taking from that and from the fact that Joker is basicaly everything that exists, character wise we have come to todays joker.

Writers have taken these elements and incorporated them into the Joker.
Grant Morrison treats joker like an entity and batmans polar opposite. He is not only a villain but also an omen of things to come. I see nothing bad about a writer expressing his own take on a character. Also that's not entirely the writer but also the artist has a say in how tha characters is pictured.

Personaly i would be really bored with just the gangster-joker.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:14 AM   #662
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Btw : The Cosplayer did an amazing job !

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:42 AM   #663
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Originally Posted by NosfeRomas View Post
I hate Jim Lee's Joker but i really do not get what you mean with transgender/crossdresser wannabe. That, along with sadomasochism have always been arround the Joker. It has been well-established that he reinvents himself, he is not only 1 person but multiple with the same basic characteristics, of a clown. Clowns originate from the Ancient Greeks and the rites of Dionysus where sexuality and transgenderism was something pretty common, especially in festivals and in theatre. So taking from that and from the fact that Joker is basicaly everything that exists, character wise we have come to todays joker.

Writers have taken these elements and incorporated them into the Joker.
Grant Morrison treats joker like an entity and batmans polar opposite. He is not only a villain but also an omen of things to come. I see nothing bad about a writer expressing his own take on a character. Also that's not entirely the writer but also the artist has a say in how tha characters is pictured.

Personaly i would be really bored with just the gangster-joker.
What I meant was that when I see some guys dressed up in a Joker costume they are not menacing at all and the way they put that make up and the lipstick on them with the forced frozen smile on their face is so wrong to my eyes that no matter how faithful they are to the comics version, they are looking more like a guy who just wishes or pretends to be a woman unfortunately though.

I know there have been transgender undertones in most of his versions with all that Joker reinventing himself, but it is not my cup of tea anyways. Uh, still the Morrison Leatherface version is taking it to the extreme.

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Btw : The Cosplayer did an amazing job !
Not to offense that guy of course and he did a great job coming up with that costume by himself, but just imagine Ledger's Joker or those Pacino photos next to that cosplay Joker. Who would strike you as more threatening and frightening?


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Old 08-01-2013, 08:54 AM   #664
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

The Joker is like that, he's a narcisist, cares about looking vintage. You look at him and you're not sure what he's really thinking.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 08-01-2013, 09:05 AM   #665
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

To me, the Arkham video game Joker is the perfect mix of the cartoon/comic Joker and the "realistic" Nolan Joker

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:05 AM   #666
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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The Joker is like that, he's a narcisist, cares about looking vintage. You look at him and you're not sure what he's really thinking.
Well that is what he has become over the years, not what his original depiction was intended to be. And that's exactly what i dislike about him for the reasons I explained.

By the way I saw this fan film and I have to say it is very well done and the Joker actor seems very deep in the role. I even nearly cried at the events leading to his transformation in the film. But I am not sure if it is proper to take him through such a great deal of pain and loss. Then it is inevitable you re gonna feel sorry for him and understand his actions.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvQBRrSsPtY

Some things like Joker, Aliens and maybe the Time travel machine in Terminator are better off without any explanation of how they came to be.


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Old 08-01-2013, 09:47 AM   #667
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

This is what inspired the Joker




It's who the joker is, i've read golden age Batman and i know how he used to be, and he's not that different. Characters that have so many years of existence have different versions depending on the writers at the time, which often leads one to say a certain version is the true one instead of the other.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:13 PM   #668
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I'm in neither the Nicholson or Ledger camp, but I disagree that it was just Jack Nicholson playing Jack Nicholson. People only say that in retrospect. At the time (1989) Nicholson got just as much praise for his performance as Heath Ledger did.

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Old 04-28-2014, 03:16 PM   #669
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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I'm in neither the Nicholson or Ledger camp, but I disagree that it was just Jack Nicholson playing Jack Nicholson. People only say that in retrospect. At the time (1989) Nicholson got just as much praise for his performance as Heath Ledger did.
The thing is at the time people did believe jack the actor would be the best to portray the joker. In that his past work playing sort of off-kilter characters and his natural persona would be a natural fit for the joker. So he sort of was hired to play Jack Nicholson as the Joker because that was believed to be a good fit.

I don't necessarilly disagree with that but I think he was about 10 years too late to be playing the joker. If he had played the joker in his one flew overs the cucko's nest to the shining period, I think his performance would defnitely be up there at least with ledgers.

But by the time he was cast he was 50 and pudgy and sort of too used to playing himself.

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Old 04-28-2014, 03:59 PM   #670
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Yeah, it's still cool, but the pudgy 50 year old Joker with a told origin is just not how i see the character.

Especially when he's in a movie where he's interacting with batman for the first and last time.

Joker, for me, is skinny. Doesn't care about money or that kind of power. He also doesn't fear death like Napier does at 50 years of age. That guy dreaded going into that chemical plant because he had a feeling he would be betrayed, arrested or murdered. Even in his final breath, he was petrified at falling from the helicopter.

Not how i see Joker at all.

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Old 04-28-2014, 05:09 PM   #671
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Yeah, it's still cool, but the pudgy 50 year old Joker with a told origin is just not how i see the character.

Especially when he's in a movie where he's interacting with batman for the first and last time.

Joker, for me, is skinny. Doesn't care about money or that kind of power. He also doesn't fear death like Napier does at 50 years of age. That guy dreaded going into that chemical plant because he had a feeling he would be betrayed, arrested or murdered. Even in his final breath, he was petrified at falling from the helicopter.

Not how i see Joker at all.
Ha, I thought I was the only one to see it that way.

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Old 04-29-2014, 09:42 AM   #672
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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I don't necessarilly disagree with that but I think he was about 10 years too late to be playing the joker. If he had played the joker in his one flew overs the cucko's nest to the shining period, I think his performance would defnitely be up there at least with ledgers.
Yeah, he was way past his prime, even though 10 years later he won another oscar for best actor, plus two nominations. Not to mention other awards.

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But by the time he was cast he was 50 and pudgy and sort of too used to playing himself.
50 ain't old, besides Joker isn't portrayed in the comics as being youthful. He looks about 40. Cesar Romero was even older than Nicholson when he played Joker and I never hear anybody complain that he was 'too old'.

Also, he wasn't "pudgy". He has always had a stocky appearance.

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Yeah, it's still cool, but the pudgy 50 year old Joker with a told origin is just not how i see the character.
Even though that's how he was portrayed for years and years.


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Joker, for me, is skinny.
Yeah, well, it's the same thing as people saying Michael Keaton wasn't tall or buff enough.

Quote:
Doesn't care about money or that kind of power.
Since when did Nicholson Joker care about money and power? They were just a means to achieve his ends, just like the Heath Ledger Joker.

Quote:
He also doesn't fear death like Napier does at 50 years of age. That guy dreaded going into that chemical plant because he had a feeling he would be betrayed, arrested or murdered. Even in his final breath, he was petrified at falling from the helicopter.
At the chemical plant he hadn't become Joker yet.

Joker has shown fear in the comics.

His first appearance;



^You see him being stabbed, 'looking unbelievably at the knife in his chest': "No, no, it can't be true, yet there it is.."

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Old 04-29-2014, 09:59 AM   #673
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

Nope every origin of the Joker shows him as a young guy, like Killing Joke, Batman Confidential and all that. Not a fifty something year old like Nicholson. In Killing Joke he even had a young wife who was preggers. Joker was never a pudgy old guy like Nicholson. Joker is a slim/skinny guy. Always has been.

Nobody complained about Romero because he didn't look his age. Nowhere near it.

Soz but that comic book panel you posted ain't Joker showing fear. "No it can't be true...and yet there it is" ain't a fearful response. Sounds like disbelief and then acceptance.

It was Nicholson playing himself as Joker that's why he was cast because peeps though the crazy Jack performances he was doing in movies like Shining and Witches of Eastwick and Cuckoo's Nest would be right for a movie Joker. Only thing you got right was he didn't care about money. He threw millions away for free at the parade.

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Old 04-29-2014, 06:54 PM   #674
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

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Nope every origin of the Joker shows him as a young guy, like Killing Joke, Batman Confidential and all that. Not a fifty something year old like Nicholson. In Killing Joke he even had a young wife who was preggers. Joker was never a pudgy old guy like Nicholson. Joker is a slim/skinny guy. Always has been.
That's just one comic, and it's never actually stated how old he is. He looks about 35-ish. Impossible to tell, really. And he has a young wife? So? Lots of older men hook up with younger women.

Joker has always been portrayed as wrinkly, anyway:



As for the 'skinny' issue - that's why they elongated Nicholson's chin with makeup prosthetics to make him look more gaunt.



Quote:
Nobody complained about Romero because he didn't look his age. Nowhere near it.
We never saw Romero without the makeup.

Quote:
Soz but that comic book panel you posted ain't Joker showing fear. "No it can't be true...and yet there it is" ain't a fearful response. Sounds like disbelief and then acceptance.
Well same thing that he had a fricken' gargoyle tied to his leg, dragging him to plunge 100 stories.



Quote:
It was Nicholson playing himself as Joker that's why he was cast because peeps though the crazy Jack performances he was doing in movies like Shining and Witches of Eastwick and Cuckoo's Nest would be right for a movie Joker.
And yet, his performance was nothing like in The Shining, Cuckoo's Nest or Witches of Eastwick. This guy didn't win 3 oscars for nothing.

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Old 04-29-2014, 07:07 PM   #675
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Default Re: am I the only one who DIDN'T think Nicholson nailed joker??

I'm sorry, Count, but Joker looks about mid 20's in TKJ origin:






Same in the aforementioned Batman Confidential one:




A couple of creases on his face when he smiles doesn't make him look wrinkly lol. Even Batman's face creases up when he smiles:




It's not a sign of old age. Some people's facial skin just crease when they smile;




His face is hardly "wrinkled":




I wouldn't call Joker's facial expression in B'89 when the gargoyle is dragging him down the ladder a look of disbelief and acceptance. He looks scared, IMO:




You're right we never saw Romero out of make up, and that may be why it hid his age. He was covered in make up, and wore a green wig. He wouldn't be the first actor to have their age masked by make up.

When people say Jack was playing himself as the Joker they mean it's the same crazy Jack style of acting. Obviously all the characters are different, but the same manic Jack acting style is there in all his performances.

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