![]() |
![]() |
#1 |
STEVE HOLT!
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: The Land of Oz, Australia
Posts: 969
|
![]()
What are race changes that wouldn't bother you.
Personally i could care less if they changed up Wonderman what are your suggestions?
__________________
Joe Manganiello for Hercules |
![]() |
![]() |
#2 |
Eldritch Abomination
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 8,199
|
![]()
M.o.d.o.k.
|
![]() |
![]() |
#3 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,424
|
![]()
Given that minorities were considered to be outside of the mainstream in US society when many of our most popular superheroes were created, some degree of colorblind casting has to take place. This is not only to be fair to actors and actresses of color, but also to better reflect the viewing audience, and also to attract foreign viewers in a market has become more and more dependent on international box office receipts. Personally, I have a sliding sale from least risky to most:
1) Villain (e.g. Kingpin, Electro, Mandarin, Bane), Supporting Character (e.g. Perry White, Alicia Masters, Harvey Dent, Heimdall), Underused Hero (e.g. Nick Fury, Wonderman) - Go ahead and make the change. No problems here. 2) Fully masked Iconic Hero (e.g. Spiderman, Deadpool) - Riskier than the first group, But given that the look of the character remains the same regardless of the person's race, it's ok so long as you have a damn good reason. 3) Cowled Iconic Hero (e.g. Batman, Captain America, Daredevil) - More difficult than the prior category, and easier for a character like Daredevil who is less well known and has yet to have a successful film. 4) Unmasked Iconic Hero (e.g. Superman, The Human Torch) Casting Michael B. Jordan as Johnny Storm would change the look of a character that has existed as both human and robot since 1939. You would have to have an extremely good reason to make a change under these circumstances 5) Race or Ethnic Specific Iconic Hero (e.g. Luke Cage, Black Panther, Tonto) Given the dearth of minority comic book heroes, under no circumstances should you change the race of these classic characters. |
![]() |
![]() |
#4 |
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 8,570
|
![]()
That's a pretty good breakdown Zarek. There's nuances in each group. Ie, It's a lot easier to change Human Torch, a relatively minor character who's race is incidental, than it is to change Captain America, a more well known character who is at the forefront of the military in WWII.
I think the most "controversial" changes I'd be up for in the Marvel Universe are: Any 2 members of the Fantastic Four Daredevil Any Done Before in other adaptations - Janet Van Dyne Any Aliens Really - Mar-Vell - Silver Surfer
__________________
X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." |
![]() |
![]() |
#5 |
Monkey Boy
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,265
|
![]()
I actually don't think race changes would bother me at all most of the time, or ever probably. I remember hearing that Michael Clarke Duncan was going to play Kingpin, and that Cuba Gooding Junior wanted to play Daredevil, I thought that would have been cool. Plot would have still been bad though. It wouldn't have bothered me if Donald Glover played Peter Parker (Parker being my favorite superhero, and one I relate to the most). The one time I can remember getting upset was when I heard Laurence Fishburne was going to play Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2. I was upset because I thought Doc Ock was this older German sortof fat guy. And I was seeing them change him into Morphius from the Matrix, not necessarily because of his race though.
And seeing how Fishburn looks as Perry White now, and if he did a German accent I would have been fine. The rare occassions is when the character's ethnicity is a big part of who they are, Black Panther is African, so is Storm (although she grew up elsewhere), Gambit is Cajun, Banshee is Irish, Wolverine is Canadian, The last three maybe their race could change but their accents shouldn't. With the majority of characters being white I don't mind them changing the race, but I don't think they should change a character's race if in the comics they are "a minority." Because there aren't as many characters like that. I'm more upset at changes like making Dr. Doom a CEO instead of a dictator, or giving him electric powers and metal skin instead of a suit of armor. Or cluttering up a movie with too much stuff like in Daredevil, making what could have been a good film bad by trying to do everything in the first movie. Or over explaining things like in Ang Lee's Hulk. I'd be fine with changing the race of Bruce Banner, Peter Parker, Ted Kord/Blue Beetle, even Johnny Storm as long as Sue Storm was the same race since they are brother and sister. Batman, Superman, wouldn't bother me. |
![]() |
![]() |
#6 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 181
|
![]()
For non-iconic villains and support characters, go ahead. Big deal. The heroes themselves, nuh-uh (I consider Fury to be a support character, not hero).
Personally, I think the notion that Zarex mentioned that "minorities were considered to be outside of the mainstream in US society when many of our most popular superheroes were created" is a copout. I'm not jumping on Zarex personally; many people have said the same thing, he just brought it up here first. Yes, racial politics in media were a lot different back then. But even today, when most people are color blind, the vast majority of characters created for film, tv, and print are still white. And even when race issues in the media were at their most controversial, we still got great black characters - Black Panther (1966), Falcon (1969), Luke Cage (1972), Storm (1975). If WB decided they were gonna reboot Harry Potter and cast a black child, the world would throw a fit, even though it was written at end of the 20th century. Why? Because everyone knows Harry Potter is a little white boy. If someone were to make Life of Pi, and use a white kid instead of Indian, people would also be up in arms. Because the kid in Life of Pi is supposed to be an Indian boy. And isn't it kinda insulting to minorities to change well-known characters to a different race just to placate them? It's basically them saying, "We know there's black, latin, asian superheroes out there. But instead of simply including them, we're just gonna take this white character and make him black, latin, asian so you'll feel special." That's like putting a bunch of hockey players in blackface just to get black people interested in the sport. |
![]() |
![]() |
#7 |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 12,044
|
![]()
I wouldn't be the least bit shocked or upset by ethnic changes to the majority of characters big or small; it would be easier for me to list the ones I *would* be upset by. And those, as others have stated, would be characters whose ethnicity is central to their character ---- e.g., Luke Cage, Shang-Chi, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Warpath, Red Skull, and the like.
I still find the idea of a "black" Norse god like Heimdall, for instance, to be fairly jarring --- until I stop and consider that the rest of this "Norse" pantheon is composed of Brits, Aussies, and Americans, so....no harm, no foul. ![]()
__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,424
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#9 | |
Not 100% A Dick
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,943
|
![]() Quote:
I think I'm on a similar page as Sam. Upon first look, I wasn't that psyched about the potential Human Torch race change because it could take away from the "family" aspect that helps tie F4 together, but it could easily be changed to an adoption or mixed parents anyway so it doesn't bother me at all. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#10 | |
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 8,570
|
![]() Quote:
Black face is for white people. That shows that your issue is not the change so much, but that you view these characters as essentially white. The fact that you view black characters as *for* Black people suggests that you view white characters as for white people... that is *actually* insulting. The truth is, these characters that have existed for so long, that are incidentally white and have affected all of our lives, they're for everyone. Some filmmakers get that. People who don't will continue to try and say they're PC or placating, because there's nothing actually wrong with changing a race, so anyone who's against it has to baselessly assume that it's being done for some evil reason, otherwise... why be against it?
__________________
X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#11 |
Vladeck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,594
|
![]()
The only changes that bother me are when the background of the character requires the race, such as Blank Panther.
Everything else is fair game to me.
__________________
The Shredder? Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw. A good death is its own reward Dead or alive, you're coming with me! |
![]() |
![]() |
#12 |
Campeador Boricua
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In my house!
Posts: 906
|
![]()
They recently said something about Dwayne Johnsson playing Luke Cage. That would be a "No, I'm pretty sure that character is supposed to be a lot more Black. That said, he could VOICE Luke Cage, just not embody him physically. I think I heard someone say he's half-black or something, but so Is Vin Diesel, and for the effects of what's basically a Blaxploitation character that's not gonna work out, here.
And for the record, neither Jennifer Love Hewitt nor Bolo Young should play Storm. |
![]() |
![]() |
#13 |
Vladeck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,594
|
![]()
Halle Berry was a bad choice too. Though for all different reasons.
__________________
The Shredder? Maybe all that hardware is for making coleslaw. A good death is its own reward Dead or alive, you're coming with me! |
![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |
Que bolá con el timbeque?
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: FL
Posts: 8,565
|
![]() Quote:
Why is it not okay to change the race of of an established ethnic Hero, but it is okay to do so for a Villain? Villains can be as iconic as their Hero counterparts, sometimes more so. Yet from your #1 you were okay with the Madarin being played by someone not of Asian ethnicity...
__________________
"A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it." -- Peter David |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#15 |
The Watcher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In A Place Far Far Away
Posts: 2,629
|
![]()
Race changes in don't really bother me just because I think that there are far too many great minority actors who can portray characters that aren't drawn to be minority. I will say I'm slightly a Hippocrate as I do get a little bit upset when a minority figure be it a fictional or non-fictional character gets changed to be white (also known as white-washing) and the only reason why it bothers me is because there are so many great minority actors and so few great minority roles and even fewer that aren't a stereotype.
Whenever we see a minority (usually black) actor being offered a role that is known to be white, people cry and act like it changes everything and it doesn't (at least not for most characters) they also act like the reverse never happens although it happens a lot even when the characters aren't fictional. Characters who shouldn't see a race change (off the top of my head): Tony Stark Steve Rogers Red Skull Dr. Doom Wolverine Prof. X Magneto So basically as long as it fits in with the times and history of the character I don't really care. I will also say that I understand the desire to see the characters on screen look like their comic book counterpart but at this stage in comic to film adaptions just because a character looks the part doesn't mean that they will be portrayed the same way in terms of personality the x-men films have taught me a great deal about that. Last edited by CB Fan; 05-23-2013 at 05:38 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
#16 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,424
|
![]() Quote:
|
|
![]() |
![]() |
#17 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,912
|
![]()
Any character that isn't iconic nor that important.(IE Heimdall and Perry White) The only ones that would actually complain about their races being changed are uptight comic nerds. However characters such as Superman, Batman, Spider-man(Peter Parker) etc are iconic and I would like whoever portrays them in a live action movie to resemble their comic counterpart as much as possible.
There's been an uproar about Jamie Foxx playing Electro in ASM2. While Electro isn't really a minor villain, he's not A-list either. Norman Osborn and Doc Ock are more iconic and important in the Spider-man mythos. If Shocker appeared in a movie and they made him black I wouldn't care. Because his real identity never really meant anything anywhere else. In the 90s show, Shocker's real name was never even said. And in Spectacular Spider-man they made Montana of the Enforcers Shocker because like the producer said "Who is Herman Schultz?" |
![]() |
![]() |
#18 |
Eldritch Abomination
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 8,199
|
![]()
Isn't everyone ethnic?
|
![]() |
![]() |
#19 |
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 8,570
|
![]()
^Boom.
__________________
X-Men TV Show Ideas With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science." |
![]() |
![]() |
#20 |
Not a Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 11,228
|
![]()
OTOH, there are a *lot* more white characters than non-white, especially amongst heroes. Hence why I don't think you should change a non-white character to white unless you have an actual compelling reason.
Note, though, that there is a difference between the race of the *character*, and the race of the *actor*. Just because you cast a given actor ( *coughJessicaAlbacough* ) doesn't mean the character is supposed to be the same ethnicity at the actor. Obviously this matters most with Hispanic and mix-raced actors. |
![]() |
![]() |
#21 |
Banned User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Far away from germs!!!!!
Posts: 10,850
|
![]()
I have to admit all race changes annoy me.Even secondary characters.
For example,Alicia Masters was supposed to resemble Sue somewhat in her first appearance in the comic,so why cast an actress from a different race than Sue? Or Perry White.A character that has existed upward of 70 years.Everybody knows the name.Your grandfather knows who Perry White is.There's no need to change his race.(or Jimmy Olsen's gender,but that's another story) But as I said in various threads,Heimdall didn't bother me,(since as a non-Thor reader,I didn't know the character from a hole in the ground) and I thought Michael Clarke Duncan was exceptional as the Kingpin. I kinda don't mind Foxx as Electro since: A. As a purist I'm not gonna get the goofy looking green & yellow costume anyway. B. To call Electro a "B list" villain would be generous C. I had less than praise for the first film,so it's not like it could "ruin" a beloved franchise at this point. |
![]() |
![]() |
#22 | |
Shaper Savant
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 6,958
|
![]() Quote:
__________________
Black Panther 8.5 | Avengers: Infinity War X.X | Deadpool 2 X.X | Ant-Man and the Wasp X.X | X-Men: Dark Phoenix X.X | Venom X.X | Aquaman X.X Tradition is just dead people's baggage. |
|
![]() |
![]() |
#23 |
The Watcher
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In A Place Far Far Away
Posts: 2,629
|
![]()
Because he fought alongside Captain America in WW2. He's old enough that it would be changing his experiences to make him a minority in that time period. He was also raised wealthy in the 1880s.
Last edited by CB Fan; 05-23-2013 at 11:27 PM. |
![]() |
![]() |
#24 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,287
|
![]() ![]() ![]() Inhumans could easily be played more ethnically diverse, although drawn primarily caucasian looking, some might have a greek influence, that's not an implicit part of their concept. If anything making them more diverse would add to the seeded Earth premise being potential;ly developed for the film. Last edited by Mondragon; 05-24-2013 at 02:07 AM. |
![]() |
![]() |
#25 | |
SHIELD Director Coulson
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 12,044
|
![]() Quote:
IM3 made a good case --- two of them, in fact --- for Mandarin not having to be Chinese at all. And Shane Black wasn't the first to come up with that notion, anyway. Hell, the animated version of Mandarin in the 1990s Iron Man toon wasn't even *human,* much less Chinese.
__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS ...They move like slick cotton on oil. ---Echostation, 3/18/2014 |
|
![]() |
![]() |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|