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Old 05-24-2013, 01:35 AM   #51
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

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Yea I will give you those action sequences I just forgot about those. As they really aren't that memorable in my opinion besides the sewer fight. Batman Vs Bane round two is one of the lamest final fights I ever seen. Its almost as bad as Iron Man 2's final battle with Whiplash in my opinion of course.
Really? I thought the plane heist was fantastic. I also loved the sewer fight. Anytime 'The Bat' was onscreen, that was memorable. The return of The Batman/Chase in TDKR was awesome. Watching all of the GCPD hunting Batman, seeing the cops/lights and hearing the sirens going after him 8 years after Harveys death. That was memorable.

What about the pit? Though predictable, it was heart wrenching and something to behold. The acting and dialogue, the dramatic music, these scenes were the best of the trilogy. These scenes were the most memorable of the entire trilogy for me especially the final climb. The Pit embodied Bruce Waynes entire life and grind as Batman: a battle, a climb, fear, death, darkness, rejection, depression, outcast, loneliness, prevalence, hope, faith.

What wasn't memorable for you will be memorable for many. That's not a personal attack it's an obvious fact. The biggest problem I had with The Dark Knight Rises was Batman being shown in broad daylight. We had never seen that before. I posted years ago after BB asking why have we not seen Batman in broad daylight. And yeah, it's in my post statistics.

Well, now we have seen it . It didn't work so well IMO and I was left disappointed but understood the purpose of doing this. Regardless, TDKR isn't better than TDK, no. The story, character development, acting, score were all epic with TDK. However, Rises is STILL a solid movie nonetheless. And that's saying a lot.

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Old 05-24-2013, 06:53 AM   #52
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Batman vs. Bane Round 2 is freaking epic. Everything about it, the music, the setting, them looking for each other through the crowd, Batman's sense of calmness and composure despite some rage at Bane still bubbling below the surface, Batman having to adapt his fighting style and using Bane's momentum against him.

It was great.
The only thing that was wrong with Round 2 is how criminally short it was. Also, I'm not a fan of the cross-cutting to Blake and Gordon.

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Old 05-24-2013, 06:57 AM   #53
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

What gets me in the Round 2 is the almost Darth Vader-ish weird pain sounds Bane makes when he gets hit, totally awesome !

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Old 05-24-2013, 06:57 AM   #54
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Could the second fight be longer? Most definitely, but the timing the fight did have worked with the interlocking scenes of what else was going on with Gordon and with Blake. Although 60 seconds is a total understatement.

The second fight without interruptions:

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Considering the "fight" doesn't start until 30 seconds in and ends at 1:50 (with Batman kicking Bane through the door), the final fight is 80 seconds, so no, 60 seconds is not a total understatement

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Old 05-24-2013, 07:48 AM   #55
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

I actually like the cross-cutting. Love when it cuts back to Batman and Bane fighting and the "The Fire Rises" motif kicks in. And it also didn't feel foreign to this series, considering we've had cross-cutting to a watertower controller/Gordon in the Batmobile, and people on ferries during the climaxes of the films.

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Old 05-24-2013, 08:00 AM   #56
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IMO, I don't care what anyone thinks but here's a fact, Batman is arguably the single most popular superhero ever. The most iconic obviously is Superman, I think. A lot of jealousy over Batman, and I can definitely understand that. After all, it is the ONLY Superhero franchise that has had two films gross over a billion world wide.

Not to mention, it happened in a matter of only 4 years. Two films which both sit in the top ten all time domestic rankings. Yeah, there is going to be hate. There always is when it comes to success.

Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy deserves to be up there with LOTR, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future as a trilogy people will remember forever. People can hate on that for all I care.

I will say this, I still believe Batman Begins is the best superhero film I've ever seen to this day. That might change on June 14th

I think Iron man is catching up with them in terms of money. Heck I think Avengers alone out grossed all three Nolan Batman movies.

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Old 05-24-2013, 01:39 PM   #57
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The only thing that was wrong with Round 2 is how criminally short it was. Also, I'm not a fan of the cross-cutting to Blake and Gordon.
Agree about the fight being short, but criminally short? Wouldn't say THAT. Only so much could have been done when the fight was leading its way inside the City Hall building and when it began right infront of the steps.

And I like the cross-cutting to Blake and Gordon. Much like TDK where it cuts to the people in the two boats, with Blake and Gordon, it was showing how they're dealing with the crisis in their respective roles.

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Considering the "fight" doesn't start until 30 seconds in and ends at 1:50 (with Batman kicking Bane through the door), the final fight is 80 seconds, so no, 60 seconds is not a total understatement
You!!!

We should definitely count the dialogue as part of the fight as that's the winding down of the battle, because if not, you could say the final Batman/Joker fight in TDK is only 40 seconds long, lol.

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Old 05-24-2013, 02:44 PM   #58
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What gets me in the Round 2 is the almost Darth Vader-ish weird pain sounds Bane makes when he gets hit, totally awesome !
The moment Bane realizes he is screwed, after Batman cuts the tubes in his mask, is priceless. It was just sheer panic on his face.

But yeah, that's always been my main complaint with TDKR, stuff being cut out, but I have gotten over it. It was still a great fight, just wish it would have been perhaps a minute longer.

I remember reading the official shooting script, and there was a part about Batman and Bane getting separated by tumblers in the middle of the street. I don't think that got filmed though. And there was a shot of Bane grabbing Batman's neck that never made it into the film, and IIRC, it was said in the novelization for TDKR that Bane was trying to break Batman's neck.

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Old 05-24-2013, 03:00 PM   #59
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

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I think Iron man is catching up with them in terms of money. Heck I think Avengers alone out grossed all three Nolan Batman movies.
I hope you mean all three on their own since otherwise this statement is incorrect. Not that it actually says anything about quality, Transformers 3 grossed over a billion and the entire trilogy grossed more than far superior films like Fight Club, Schindler's List, Memento, The Place Beyond the Pines and Se7en.


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Old 05-24-2013, 04:52 PM   #60
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

It took 6 superheroes and the idea of them teaming up to make $1.5 billion. Batman did 2/3 of that amount twice by himself.

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Old 05-24-2013, 07:17 PM   #61
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The moment Bane realizes he is screwed, after Batman cuts the tubes in his mask, is priceless. It was just sheer panic on his face.

But yeah, that's always been my main complaint with TDKR, stuff being cut out, but I have gotten over it. It was still a great fight, just wish it would have been perhaps a minute longer.

I remember reading the official shooting script, and there was a part about Batman and Bane getting separated by tumblers in the middle of the street. I don't think that got filmed though. And there was a shot of Bane grabbing Batman's neck that never made it into the film, and IIRC, it was said in the novelization for TDKR that Bane was trying to break Batman's neck.
I loved that part of the movie...specially the rapid fire barrage Bane unleashes (that and the way he swats batman with a forearm when he approaches him). More fight with this heightened intensity would have been very much welcome...

Ultimately the 2nd fight is a bit of a letdown because it feels too easy and batman doesnt really do anything to signify he truly overcame Bane.

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Old 05-24-2013, 07:35 PM   #62
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Ultimately the 2nd fight is a bit of a letdown because it feels too easy and batman doesnt really do anything to signify he truly overcame Bane.
Bruce overcoming Bane came before the fight by escaping The Pit. Bruce is consumed by his pain throughout the film and one of the things that the Pit symbolizes is Bane. Bane never escaped the Pit, instead being saved by Ra's and given a mask to mask his pain. Bruce climbing from the Pit is him rising above his pain and leaving it all behind, something Bane never did.

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Old 05-24-2013, 07:49 PM   #63
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

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It took 6 superheroes and the idea of them teaming up to make $1.5 billion. Batman did 2/3 of that amount twice by himself.
True.



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Ultimately the 2nd fight is a bit of a letdown because it feels too easy and batman doesnt really do anything to signify he truly overcame Bane.
Bruce Wayne climbed out of the Pit when Bane never could. Bruce Wayne was healed from his injuries when Bane never could. Bruce Wayne became stronger and overpowered Bane in the second bout this time around and broke his mask.

Batman didn't do anything to signify he overcame Bane?

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Old 05-24-2013, 07:50 PM   #64
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

In the first fight Batman tried to beat Bane in a fistfight and lost badly. Bruce had no fear and nothing to lose, in a way. He was reckless.

In the second fight Batman is more focused. He does stand toe to toe with Bane at moments (e.g. when they interlock fists). However, Bruce is smarter there and realizes he needs to exploit Bane's weakness rather than just trade blows.

He overcomes Bane by being a little smarter and a little more tactical.

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Old 05-24-2013, 10:23 PM   #65
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

The only serious thing I thought was really bad was the Talia al Ghul twist. I thought it was stupid and pointless. It utterly diminished Bane's character to have him being following her orders the whole time, not to mention out of character. And for what? for the sake of having a little twist at the end? very dissappointing.

Minor quibbles I have are that Bruce didn't spend enough time Batmanning, but I can see the positive side of that. Also we didn't see enough footage of Catwoman from behind.

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The moment Bane realizes he is screwed, after Batman cuts the tubes in his mask, is priceless. It was just sheer panic on his face.
That was epic. and then Bane fighting out of pure panic and desperation went up a whole nother level, bashing in columns and junk.

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Old 05-24-2013, 10:49 PM   #66
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

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The only thing that was wrong with Round 2 is how criminally short it was. Also, I'm not a fan of the cross-cutting to Blake and Gordon.
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I actually like the cross-cutting. Love when it cuts back to Batman and Bane fighting and the "The Fire Rises" motif kicks in. And it also didn't feel foreign to this series, considering we've had cross-cutting to a watertower controller/Gordon in the Batmobile, and people on ferries during the climaxes of the films.
I was disappointed too at how short the 2nd fight was. It was fine but I would've liked more of it. It's supposed to be the "**** yeah!" moment of the movie (along with him climbing out of the pit) - the reward for seeing all the **** that Bruce Wayne went through. It definitely didn't feel that short during the shoot. As for the cross-cutting, I liked it during the Talia reveal. The eerie score combined with the cross-cutting to Gordon just made the scene all the more hopeless.


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Old 05-24-2013, 10:56 PM   #67
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Default Re: Why is everyone slamming TDKR? - Part 1

its hard to satisfy everyone and the more samples there are the more points for people to criticize and dislike exists. its a pattern that happens a lot in popular culture like music bands once they start making more albums

i really dig rises and dont care about the extreme nitpicking which you can do to all movies today basically.

one thing is for sure the soundtrack is just more and more amazing everytime i watch

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Old 05-25-2013, 08:06 AM   #68
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I actually like the cross-cutting. Love when it cuts back to Batman and Bane fighting and the "The Fire Rises" motif kicks in. And it also didn't feel foreign to this series, considering we've had cross-cutting to a watertower controller/Gordon in the Batmobile, and people on ferries during the climaxes of the films.
I think the difference between that was the things that the other movies cut to had different tones, which helped to set them apart. In BB, during the fight with Ra's it cut to Gordon in the Tumblr, which was pretty hilarious. In TDK it cut to the people on the ferries, which while certainly not funny, had a very different feel to the Batman/Joker fist fight, which helped alleviate the sheer ferocity of that fight.

In TDKR, whenever it cut to Gordon I kept thinking "Wait, no, go back!" (and how it pains me to say that). The fact that it was also an action sequence but not nearly as interesting as the Bane/Batman fight made the cross cutting annoying to me in that instant. Though I did like the stuff with Blake on the bridge a lot. I think I must be one of the few people who dislike TDKR overall but like John Blake

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You!!!


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We should definitely count the dialogue as part of the fight as that's the winding down of the battle, because if not, you could say the final Batman/Joker fight in TDK is only 40 seconds long, lol.
I don't think we should. I wouldn't count the "Madness is like gravity" speech as part of the battle anymore than I would count the "WHERES THE TRIGGAAH?!?!".. urhm... speech. The music has died down, the IMAX is no-more, clearly we have moved from action scene to dialogue driven scene.

And if the Batman/Joker fight is only 40 seconds, that's fine by me. The physical confrontation was never a very important part of those characters' relationship. Whereas with Bane and Batman, the physical confrontation was HUGELY important, thus it didn't feel right for the fight to be so short.

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Old 05-25-2013, 12:45 PM   #69
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I mean you guys can't tell me that you weren't slightly disappointed by the final fight with Bats and Bane? It was over in a like 60 seconds it seemed AND Batman didn't really beat Bane, Catwoman put the final nail in the coffin for him ha.
The more I watch it, the more disappointed I become in it...
the good:
-the "thematic" victory that most stated above about batman escaping the pit etc. etc.
-Banes barrage when the mask is broken
-Banes swat of batman after mask breaks
-Batmans "Sparta" kick of Bane

the bad:
Bane was not allowed to lose with dignity, they built him up as such an imposing force and presence throughout the movie and then in the end he lies beaten in the fetal position making a darth vader like gurgling sound. The blast by Catwoman isn't bad in itself, its only bad only because it punctuates the complete 180 the character has done since the beginning (the ferocity, the power of belief as alfred says).

Not allowing Bane to lose with dignity lessens Batmans victory. It really bothers me because I really like Bane as a character and was really enjoying this version that Nolan had built, but in the end he slipped up. Love the movies but like all good things it still has its blemishes.

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Old 05-25-2013, 01:01 PM   #70
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I don't think we should. I wouldn't count the "Madness is like gravity" speech as part of the battle anymore than I would count the "WHERES THE TRIGGAAH?!?!".. urhm... speech. The music has died down, the IMAX is no-more, clearly we have moved from action scene to dialogue driven scene.

And if the Batman/Joker fight is only 40 seconds, that's fine by me. The physical confrontation was never a very important part of those characters' relationship. Whereas with Bane and Batman, the physical confrontation was HUGELY important, thus it didn't feel right for the fight to be so short.
This is where we disagree then, lol. I think certain pieces of dialogue should be part of the "battle", especially when more happened after the "Where's the trigger!!!" interrogation. Talia intervened and then the battle commenced when Bane then tried to blow Batman's head off with a shotgun, even if that only lasted like five seconds.

And I agree, Batman vs Bane should be a hell a lot more intense, but to a point it shouldn't because Bane is no match going up against a Batman that's focus. I think that's the main deal with the first battle and the parallel to the second...Batman is not focused and is neither strong nor wise enough in the sewers.

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The more I watch it, the more disappointed I become in it...
the good:
-the "thematic" victory that most stated above about batman escaping the pit etc. etc.
-Banes barrage when the mask is broken
-Banes swat of batman after mask breaks
-Batmans "Sparta" kick of Bane

the bad:
Bane was not allowed to lose with dignity, they built him up as such an imposing force and presence throughout the movie and then in the end he lies beaten in the fetal position making a darth vader like gurgling sound. The blast by Catwoman isn't bad in itself, its only bad only because it punctuates the complete 180 the character has done since the beginning (the ferocity, the power of belief as alfred says).

Not allowing Bane to lose with dignity lessens Batmans victory. It really bothers me because I really like Bane as a character and was really enjoying this version that Nolan had built, but in the end he slipped up. Love the movies but like all good things it still has its blemishes.
There's a point that Bane didn't lose with any dignity though because of how he never escaped the Pit and was still in prison. He was a monster from beginning to end even if he shed a few tears for Talia and he had an ending a monster usually receives.

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Old 05-25-2013, 01:47 PM   #71
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Ah i thought exactly the same thing Brain Damage did during that scene...Nolan don't cut this beautiful confrontation to Gordon !!! If it was a little bigger , it might have been more acceptable. But being short , it would have been much sweeter to see it from start to finish.

But cross-cutting action scenes is just a easy way to position action through different spaces , and to cut between exciting and not so exciting moments without killing the suspense and the momentum.

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Old 05-25-2013, 01:59 PM   #72
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Ah, the tears... the bully gets punched in the mouth and goes crying to mom. Yes I understand the scene in the context of the story but all the same the feeling that the intent failed creeps in because of the inconsistency with who Bane was earlier. A man so weak who can't escape a well obviously has proven himself in other ways to earn the unwavering loyalty of his army as Bane had. Bane not having escaped the well doesnt automatically make him weaker than batman, the fact that he was rejected by the league of shadows and still reached the power he had shows he has overcome some challenge at some point.

Respectfully, I am just discussing my feelings on an aspect of the movie and am in no way trying to influence or change someones opinion. Bottom line a small "flaw" in a Batman movie is inconsequential given the overall excellence of the film itself.

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Old 05-25-2013, 03:51 PM   #73
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Is it me, or do others think posters should not have the right to post if they continue to think a man crying is "dumb"?

First of all...he's shedding a tear because of Talia going through their history and when Talia is leaving. If he cried because he got punched, he would've cried outside of City Hall

And the KEY thing that gives Bane that loyalty you talk about is pure fear...which is abolished in the final battle. But not climbing the Pit does indeed signify that he is weaker than Batman on a much more personal level than just physical attributes. Bruce is the better man, period.

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Old 05-26-2013, 11:13 PM   #74
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Batman vs. Bane Round 2 is freaking epic. Everything about it, the music, the setting, them looking for each other through the crowd, Batman's sense of calmness and composure despite some rage at Bane still bubbling below the surface, Batman having to adapt his fighting style and using Bane's momentum against him.

It was great.
I beg to disagree, that whole scene (IMO of course) is very underwhelming from the moment the cops start marching towards the scenery.

1. The "highly trained" mercenaries are firing at the cops with automatic weapons (hundreds of cops btw) and only manage to hit one or two

2. The choreography is terrible. I know there were a lot of extras but maybe the battle was too ambitious even for Nolan

3. The Batman/Bane fight is probably the least impressive final fight in the whole trilogy. Both the Batman Begins (Batman vs. Ninjas/Batman vs. Ra's) and TDK final fight (Batman vs. Swat/Batman vs. Joker) are better. Also, Batman only manages to win because he attacks Bane's mask, without this he would have been toast.

I don't see what makes that final battle so great.

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Old 05-26-2013, 11:14 PM   #75
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Batman is suppose to be smart and not once during the sewer fight did he even think about attacking Bane's mask???!! Seems kinda stupid considering it was an obvious weak point on Bane. Then during Round 2 he finally figures it out??!! And then Catwoman finishes off Bane. It was just really lame and short in my opinion.
Completely agree

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