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View Poll Results: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises
10 32 27.35%
9 30 25.64%
8 22 18.80%
7 16 13.68%
6 8 6.84%
5 5 4.27%
4 2 1.71%
3 0 0%
2 0 0%
1 2 1.71%
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:24 AM   #26
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Default Re: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises

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I have been going back and forth on it, but ever since I saw it on DVD, I've settled on 7/10, with BB and TDK both 9/10. It's a good film, but it will perpetually be haunted by the specter of "what if?". The potential was there, it just wasn't used properly.
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Exactly!
While I personally love TDKR there is without a doubt that feeling of slight dread knowing we'll never know exactly how they originally envisioned a third film to go. After Heath passed in January 2008 you know whatever minor ideas for another sequel that were in the back of their heads had to be changed or put to rest in respect to potentially recasting Heath. I remember in a Rolling Stone magazine interview Chris Nolan mentioned when asked about it that if Heath were alive we'd have a different third movie. It sucks knowing we'll never get that movie, but it's not a creative issue it's an unfortunate thing a man prematurely lost his life and as a result plans were changed.

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Old 01-04-2013, 07:09 AM   #27
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Default Re: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises

Its definately gone down in my estimation on re-watch, I still love a lot of the movie, but some parts just drag on for far too long and Bruce not being Batman for 8 years still riles me.

Bruce spends too much time out of Gotham for me as well, I know he has to recover, etc but its another part of the story which dragged too much and could have been used to develop other things more.

Still a great movie, but at this moment in time its the worst in the trilogy for me, that may change in the future though as I have yet to watch all 3 back-to-back.

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Old 01-04-2013, 12:22 PM   #28
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For the CBMs of 2012, I think the only film that has gone down in my mind is The Amazing Spider-Man.

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Old 01-04-2013, 04:23 PM   #29
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I gave the movie an 8 initially. I'd give it a 7 now. There are some really good segments. The best parts match, or depending on who you speak to, even exceed bits of BB and TDK. Selina is the strongest point and all her scenes get 10/10. Away from her though, I'm not the biggest fan of Blake's excessive use and how things really slow down once Bruce gets captured. As it stands, the movie broke the threequel curse and definitely does have value. However there's not the same flow on intensity and certain things could have been handled differently and had a better result IMO.

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Old 05-27-2013, 09:27 PM   #30
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A 7 out of 10. Good movie overall, but very flawed, and a BIG step down from it's two predecessors. Too much John Blake, annoying useless characters like Foley, Bane's plan making no sense, Talia shoe horned in, and good characters like Selina, Alfred and Gordon being under used.
I agree with you in many points. I have seen the movie a couple of times and I still fell the same. As you said, good movie with flaws. It's a 3.5/5 (or 7/10), but I rate Batman Begins the same.

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Old 05-27-2013, 09:28 PM   #31
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The movie was perfect.

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Old 05-27-2013, 09:43 PM   #32
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After repeat viewings its not fared well with me.

At most I'd give it a 6/10. Maybe a 7 if I am feeling really generous.
Same. It's the only Nolan film that's gotten worse with repeat viewings.

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Old 05-27-2013, 10:55 PM   #33
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I gave it a 9 last year. But now it's definitely a solid 8. I still really, really enjoy the film, but it has more glaring issues or "flaws" that I cannot let pass. The scope, depth, character interactions, and acting still holds up extremely well. But the lack of a true revolution with more insight into the Gothamites struggles with not only Bane's occupation but with them questioning the validity of Batman and the truth about Harvey Dent is what really bugs me. I'd say that's the thing that I can't believe Nolan skimmed over.

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Old 05-27-2013, 10:58 PM   #34
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I gave it a 9 last year. But now it's definitely a solid 8. I still really, really enjoy the film, but it has more glaring issues or "flaws" that I cannot let pass. The scope, depth, character interactions, and acting still holds up extremely well. But the lack of a true revolution with more insight into the Gothamites struggles with not only Bane's occupation but with them questioning the validity of Batman and the truth about Harvey Dent is what really bugs me. I'd say that's the thing that I can't believe Nolan skimmed over.
BIG problem too. The lies in TDK (including Alfred burning Rachel's letter) had really no conmseque4nces or real development in TDKR.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:21 PM   #35
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BIG problem too. The lies in TDK (including Alfred burning Rachel's letter) had really no conmseque4nces or real development in TDKR.
You see, that's the thing - Nolan doesn't ignore a lot of those plot points in TDK, he just skims over them in favor of other....things.

Gordon actually gets arrested by "the people" in TDKR for his lies to the public, but he doesn't have any form of a mea culpa when he stands trial. That scene should have had so much weight to it, but Nolan just skimps out on the juicy stuff.

The Harvey Dent cover up is revealed by Bane at Blackgate prison, and then we see the fall out of a pissed off, jaded, and lied to Gotham City. Brilliant stuff is shown in the montage, but that is it. It stops right there after that scene, and then it's clean streets for the rest of the film.

Rachel's letter is something I haven't really though about. I mean, it's revealed to Bruce from Alfred in there last conversation before Alfred leaves. Great scene. But yeah, it's not really mentioned anymore. I guess you can spin it that Bruce really locked in on a subconscious suicide mission when he fought Bane the first time; because of hearing about the dear john letter. Still that's rather skimmed over too, but not as bad as the first two I mentioned.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:28 PM   #36
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You see, that's the thing - Nolan doesn't ignore a lot of those plot points in TDK, he just skims over them in favor of other....things.

Gordon actually gets arrested by "the people" in TDKR for his lies to the public, but he doesn't have any form of a mea culpa when he stands trial. That scene should have had so much weight to it, but Nolan just skimps out on the juicy stuff.

The Harvey Dent cover up is revealed by Bane at Blackgate prison, and then we see the fall out of a pissed off, jaded, and lied to Gotham City. Brilliant stuff is shown in the montage, but that is it. It stops right there after that scene, and then it's clean streets for the rest of the film.
Completely agreed.

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Rachel's letter is something I haven't really though about. I mean, it's revealed to Bruce from Alfred in there last conversation before Alfred leaves. Great scene. But yeah, it's not really mentioned anymore. I guess you can spin it that Bruce really locked in on a subconscious suicide mission when he fought Bane the first time; because of hearing about the dear john letter. Still that's rather skimmed over too, but not as bad as the first two I mentioned.
Rachel's letter. i don't even remember if Bruce Wayne did believe what Alfred what telling him or not. Really. It's really vague. And it all changes to Alfred suddenly feeling this Batman thing can't go on or he quits.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:33 PM   #37
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You see, that's the thing - Nolan doesn't ignore a lot of those plot points in TDK, he just skims over them in favor of other....things.

Gordon actually gets arrested by "the people" in TDKR for his lies to the public, but he doesn't have any form of a mea culpa when he stands trial. That scene should have had so much weight to it, but Nolan just skimps out on the juicy stuff.

The Harvey Dent cover up is revealed by Bane at Blackgate prison, and then we see the fall out of a pissed off, jaded, and lied to Gotham City. Brilliant stuff is shown in the montage, but that is it. It stops right there after that scene, and then it's clean streets for the rest of the film.

Rachel's letter is something I haven't really though about. I mean, it's revealed to Bruce from Alfred in there last conversation before Alfred leaves. Great scene. But yeah, it's not really mentioned anymore. I guess you can spin it that Bruce really locked in on a subconscious suicide mission when he fought Bane the first time; because of hearing about the dear john letter. Still that's rather skimmed over too, but not as bad as the first two I mentioned.
Agree that Nolan skimmed over certain parts but moved unto other things for what's in the now as opposed to what storylines were in the last movie, but still...what could've been said more about Rachel's letter?

The other two things you mentioned, I can see why they should've been explored, but they were never major problems I had. The most I have is Gotham not having a voice in the return of Batman and then the disappearance of Batman. Those were my main issues. The other things I feel we had enough. Bane revealed the Dent lie and things had to move forward as there are bigger things to deal with and in the end, as mentioned in the beginning of the film, Gordon is a war hero and he should be praised as much as Batman since the both of them were behind the Dent lie and Gotham built a statue of Batman.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:34 PM   #38
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Rachel's letter. i don't even remember if Bruce Wayne did believe what Alfred what telling him or not. Really. It's really vague. And it all changes to Alfred suddenly feeling this Batman thing can't go on or he quits.
He believed him. He said "You're sorry. You expect to destroy my world and then think that we're going to shake hands?". So by saying Alfred destroyed his world telling him that, he is obviously believing him about Rachel choosing Dent over him. Then there's the scene where Miranda holds up Rachel's photo and asks who she is, and Bruce looks at it with a quiet sadness.

The Dent lie that had have had a MUCH bigger impact than it did. That should have been a poop hitting the fan type scenario when that was revealed.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:40 PM   #39
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Yeah, another thing that is strange is Batman just shows up out of the blue after 8 years, then Bane comes and takes over Gotham. The people of Gotham would be wondering where in the blue hell is the Batman?

I could definitely see a situation during Gordon's trial where a Gotham citizen says "Well where is the Batman, then? We put our trusts in a public servant who turned out to be just as much of a lunatic as those crazies in Arkham and Blackgate. Maybe it was a masked vigilante that we needed along". Or something like that, I'm kind of rambling now, lol.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:42 PM   #40
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I gave it a 9 out of 10. To be completely honest, I enjoy this movie much more on Blu-ray than I did in the movie. It is very rewatchable for me.

In the theaters I went in with very high hopes and came out a little disappointed. I thought it was going to par with The Dark Knight in theaters at least, but it did not. The trailers gave away the entire movie. The climaxes were as transparent as it could be. The whole plotline was pretty predictable to be honest.

But when I got it on Blu-ray, I was amazed as how much more I was enjoying it. Good acting, score, story. No movie is perfect.

TDK was the best for me in theaters. Than TDKR. Then BB.

At home, BB used to be the best to rewatch. Now it is TDKR > BB > TDK.

All were a blast, and it is sad that there will no longer be anymore. I always loved Batman. I never liked Superman at all, but maybe Nolan can get me into it.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:45 PM   #41
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I gave it a 9 out of 10. To be completely honest, I enjoy this movie much more on Blu-ray than I did in the movie. It is very rewatchable for me.

In the theaters I went in with very high hopes and came out a little disappointed. I thought it was going to par with The Dark Knight in theaters at least, but it did not. The trailers gave away the entire movie. The climaxes were as transparent as it could be. The whole plotline was pretty predictable to be honest.

But when I got it on Blu-ray, I was amazed as how much more I was enjoying it. Good acting, score, story. No movie is perfect.

TDK was the best for me in theaters. Than TDKR. Then BB.

At home, BB used to be the best to rewatch. Now it is TDKR > BB > TDK.

All were a blast, and it is sad that there will no longer be anymore. I always loved Batman. I never liked Superman at all, but maybe Snyder can get me into it.
Fixed.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:46 PM   #42
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Default Re: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises

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You see, that's the thing - Nolan doesn't ignore a lot of those plot points in TDK, he just skims over them in favor of other....things.

Gordon actually gets arrested by "the people" in TDKR for his lies to the public, but he doesn't have any form of a mea culpa when he stands trial. That scene should have had so much weight to it, but Nolan just skimps out on the juicy stuff.

The Harvey Dent cover up is revealed by Bane at Blackgate prison, and then we see the fall out of a pissed off, jaded, and lied to Gotham City. Brilliant stuff is shown in the montage, but that is it. It stops right there after that scene, and then it's clean streets for the rest of the film.

Rachel's letter is something I haven't really though about. I mean, it's revealed to Bruce from Alfred in there last conversation before Alfred leaves. Great scene. But yeah, it's not really mentioned anymore. I guess you can spin it that Bruce really locked in on a subconscious suicide mission when he fought Bane the first time; because of hearing about the dear john letter. Still that's rather skimmed over too, but not as bad as the first two I mentioned.
To me all of that is just classic Nolan "coldness". I guess it alienates some people, but I've come to enjoy the way he'll just quickly deal with things that you'd expect to have more weight. It gives his movies this propulsive quality, where the pacing is relentless, the movie is always ahead of you, and there is a lot of depth to be found even in the seemingly smaller or throw-away moments. It's kind of this juggling act where the subtext deals with certain things that the "text" doesn't. TDKR really magnifies this quality, especially because of the scale of the story and the time compression that happens. That said, I can understand why some would feel these aspects should have gotten more focus.

Overall, my rating hasn't changed. I said 9 last year and it's probably still a 9 for me. I'm definitely one of those who feels there are many aspects of this movie that are the best of the trilogy. It's not quite as tight as a whole as TDK, but it's still a very mighty piece of filmmaking. And I think while it may not quite have the (seemingly) mathematical precision of TDK, it actually does have more heart. I simply feel more emotions when I watch TDKR overall. Which is pretty cool considering how "cold" Nolan's style of filmmaking can be.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:47 PM   #43
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Fixed.
hehe, thanks.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:51 PM   #44
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Agree that Nolan skimmed over certain parts but moved unto other things for what's in the now as opposed to what storylines were in the last movie, but still...what could've been said more about Rachel's letter?
Everything. Bruce believing that Rachel wanted to stay with him is all what made Bruce quit as Batman. If Bruce had read the letter before, who knows what would have changed. But Bruce doesn't seem to even care.

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The other two things you mentioned, I can see why they should've been explored, but they were never major problems I had. The most I have is Gotham not having a voice in the return of Batman and then the disappearance of Batman. Those were my main issues. The other things I feel we had enough. Bane revealed the Dent lie and things had to move forward as there are bigger things to deal with and in the end, as mentioned in the beginning of the film, Gordon is a war hero and he should be praised as much as Batman since the both of them were behind the Dent lie and Gotham built a statue of Batman.
How could we have had enough of something that was merely proposed in TDK? Those character lying in TDK was the tip of the iceberg as to the possible consequences of it. According to the movies themselves, literally, everything Batman and Gordon achieved would be destroyed if truth would emerge.

And as you say, Gordon was a war hero and Batman got a statue instead.







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He believed him. He said "You're sorry. You expect to destroy my world and then think that we're going to shake hands?". So by saying Alfred destroyed his world telling him that, he is obviously believing him about Rachel choosing Dent over him. Then there's the scene where Miranda holds up Rachel's photo and asks who she is, and Bruce looks at it with a quiet sadness.
I have to see the scene again. I didn't believe Bruce would only react calmly at that after all the decisions he had made based on a lie.

I think I interpreted Bruce's words as "You expect to come and do something to destroy my world so I stop being Batman." As in 'are you saying this just to make me stop???' But that doesn't necessarily mean he believes it.

The quiet sadness could have been about her death alone.

As I said, I have to see the scene again.

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The Dent lie that had have had a MUCH bigger impact than it did. That should have been a poop hitting the fan type scenario when that was revealed.
If I understood you well, yes, I agree.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:54 PM   #45
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To me all of that is just classic Nolan "coldness". I guess it alienates some people, but I've come to enjoy the way he'll just quickly deal with things that you'd expect to have more weight. It gives his movies this propulsive quality, where the pacing is relentless, the movie is always ahead of you, and there is a lot of depth to be found even in the seemingly smaller or throw-away moments. It's kind of this juggling act where the subtext deals with certain things that the "text" doesn't. TDKR really magnifies this quality, especially because of the scale of the story and the time compression that happens. That said, I can understand why some would feel these aspects should have gotten more focus.

Overall, my rating hasn't changed. I said 9 last year and it's probably still a 9 for me. I'm definitely one of those who feels there are many aspects of this movie that are the best of the trilogy. It's not quite as tight as a whole as TDK, but it's still a very mighty piece of filmmaking. And I think while it may not quite have the (seemingly) mathematical precision of TDK, it actually does have more heart. I simply feel more emotions when I watch TDKR overall. Which is pretty cool considering how "cold" Nolan's style of filmmaking can be.
lol, you really do love that second act in TDKR, BatLobsterRises. I agree, there definitely is a coldness to the atmosphere during the clean streets during Bane's reign over Gotham. I do love how bleak it feels when Bane has all the bridges and the football field destroyed. Very unsettling.

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hehe, thanks.

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Old 05-27-2013, 11:57 PM   #46
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lol, you really do love that second act in TDKR, BatLobsterRises. I agree, there definitely is a coldness to the atmosphere during the clean streets during Bane's reign over Gotham. I do love how bleak it feels when Bane has all the bridges and the football field destroyed. Very unsettling.
Lol, yeah that is where our opinions diverge with the film. I find we tend to agree on most other things regarding TDKR though, especially our appreciation of Act 1

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Old 05-28-2013, 12:00 AM   #47
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Everything. Bruce believing that Rachel wanted to stay with him is all what made Bruce quit as Batman. If Bruce had read the letter before, who knows what would have changed. But Bruce doesn't seem to even care.
But that's not everything, though. Bruce Wayne quit as Batman because of the Dent Act, as mentioned in TDKR. He decided not to move on as Bruce Wayne because the woman he was going to spend his life with couldn't and so he figured he shouldn't either. Knowing Rachel was going to move on with Harvey only helped Bruce in the long run, but nothing had to be said or mentioned anymore.

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How could we have had enough of something that was merely proposed in TDK? Those character lying in TDK was the tip of the iceberg as to the possible consequences of it. According to the movies themselves, literally, everything Batman and Gordon achieved would be destroyed if truth would emerge.

And as you say, Gordon was a war hero and Batman got a statue instead.
We had enough simply because there were obviously bigger things to deal with in the third film itself. And besides, what more could have been done after the siege is over? The Dent lie wasn't going to be hammer down to the viewer when Gordon was dealing with the bomb, so then you had just ten minutes left...what more could have been been shown in those last ten minutes of the film?

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I have to see the scene again. I didn't believe Bruce would only react calmly at that after all the decisions he had made based on a lie.

I think I interpreted Bruce's words as "You expect to come and do something to destroy my world so I stop being Batman." As in 'are you saying this just to make me stop???' But that doesn't necessarily mean he believes it.

The quiet sadness could have been about her death alone.

As I said, I have to see the scene again.
Joker is saying it verbatim I believe.

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He said "You're sorry. You expect to destroy my world and then think that we're going to shake hands?".
Bruce acknowledges that Alfred isn't lying.

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Old 05-28-2013, 12:05 AM   #48
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Lol, yeah that is where our opinions diverge with the film. I find we tend to agree on most other things regarding TDKR though, especially our appreciate for Act 1
Oh yes. That first act, IMO, got everything pretty much right, with how I was hoping/expecting the film to start and go forward.

I don't know if it has been mentioned on here, but was I the only one who loved how during the montage of Bane's reign, they show the bellhop walking out of the hotel to see what the ruckus is; and he sees the army of disgruntled Gothamites/LOS members headed in his direction, then after a few cuts they cut back to the same bellhop and he's totally joined in on the mob mentality; dragging rich people on the ground?

It's both funny and pretty disturbing.

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Old 05-28-2013, 12:07 AM   #49
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But that's not everything, though. Bruce Wayne quit as Batman because of the Dent Act, as mentioned in TDKR. He decided not to move on as Bruce Wayne because the woman he was going to spend his life with couldn't and so he figured he shouldn't either. Knowing Rachel was going to move on with Harvey only helped Bruce in the long run, but nothing had to be said or mentioned anymore.
That;s not everything but was mentioned as one of the main reasons. Bruce didn't have to quit as Batman because of the dent Act, since the Dent Act would be finished only if the truth was exposed, not if Batman kept going on. Now, I get that if you're a fugitive you'd better quit and go home, but it was Rachel was turned Bruce down.

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
We had enough simply because there were obviously bigger things to deal with in the third film itself. And besides, what more could have been done after the siege is over? The Dent lie wasn't going to be hammer down to the viewer when Gordon was dealing with the bomb, so then you had just ten minutes left...what more could have been been shown in those last ten minutes of the film?
There's no excuse as a narrator to propose an important element just to forget about it, or treat as something unimportant just because you ran into bigger things. Those lies had potentially enormous consequences. That's why they were such great elements into the story.

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Joker is saying it verbatim I believe.
I'm sorry I don't get the meaning here. Joker?

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Originally Posted by Anno_Domini View Post
Bruce acknowledges that Alfred isn't lying.
Could be. But where exactly?

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Old 05-28-2013, 12:14 AM   #50
Anno_Domini
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Default Re: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises

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Originally Posted by Judge Culpepper View Post
That;s not everything but was mentioned as one of the main reasons. Bruce didn't have to quit as Batman because of the dent Act, since the Dent Act would be finished only if the truth was exposed, not if Batman kept going on. Now, I get that if you're a fugitive you'd better quit and go home, but it was Rachel was turned Bruce down.
That is everything. It's stated in TDKR that Bruce Wayne quit as Batman because of the Dent Act, because he and Gordon "won", because the Dent Act cleaned up Gotham. Bruce Wayne also quit being Bruce Wayne because he didn't want to move on and didn't feel the need to because the one woman he had his eyes on died. And Bruce even quit on his company because he royally screwed it up because of the failed clean energy project.

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There's no excuse as a narrator to propose an important element just to forget about it, or treat as something unimportant just because you ran into bigger things. Those lies had potentially enormous consequences. That's why they were such great elements into the story.
He didn't really forget about it, only skimmed through it while others wanted to see more, Nolan clearly didn't.

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I'm sorry I don't get the meaning here. Joker?
The Joker. The poster you were also talking to on this thread.

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Could be. But where exactly?
When Bruce said Alfred destroyed his world. That shows that Bruce acknowledged that Alfred was telling the truth.

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