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View Poll Results: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises
10 32 27.35%
9 30 25.64%
8 22 18.80%
7 16 13.68%
6 8 6.84%
5 5 4.27%
4 2 1.71%
3 0 0%
2 0 0%
1 2 1.71%
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Old 05-31-2013, 01:10 PM   #101
Anno_Domini
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Blake visiting the boys home, which slows down the story and really doesn't add much to the overall plot. Nothing we wouldn't have found out anyways. Weakest scenes in the film.
That scene was meant as an introduction to the orphanage that plays a pretty important part with the film(especially the ending) as well as bringing up that Batman 'tag' for the first time when Mark draws them on the bench.

The next scene when the orphanage is brought up gives an interesting line on Gordon's whereabouts and the "less you know, Father", which is, imo, a hint of Gordon hiding out until the dust settles so to speak so Gotham wouldn't want his head on a platter when he starts to move forward in his plan to find the bomb.

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Bruce sleeping with Miranda. Stupidest plot choice imaginable. Can't believe this even when I think about it now. Makes me rage, remove it from the film because all it is a con. No reason for it to be there, it doesn't move the plot along, it makes no sense in the overall story. Remove the entire scene(I always skip it while watching the Blu-ray).
Besides being a more or less nod to Talia becoming pregnant with Damien, this scene brings up a couple excellent points:

- When Miranda/Talia grabs the picture of Rachel, Bruce can't even look at it anymore and puts it down while Miranda/Talia does her best to get him to forget about everything except for her, even asking where Alfred is. Getting him all to herself then leads to...

- asking Bruce to leave with her to her plane. I saw that as a 'Plan A' sort of thing to get Bruce in The Pit rather than being broken by Bane.

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The other problem with the film is after Bruce escapes and returns to Gotham, it’s a jumbled mess from there until he catches back up with Gordon on the ice. They should have removed the whole Miranda/Gordon thing after meeting with Foley and kept Miranda with Fox. Sloppy editing or planning in that whole sequence. I can't believe it how rushed and really lazy that makes the movie feel in retrospect. It's frustrating.
If you leave Miranda with Fox, then you'd need her to be capture just as Fox was.

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Alfred is left the estate after Bruce is declared dead, is informed pearls are still missing. Blake still left the map. Same Morgan Freeman, and Gordon sequence- leaving them to wonder as we the viewers are. Since the ending not telegraphed by Alfred in sequence earlier in the film, and we know Bruce can track the pearls we can expand on the suspense of the ending sequence. We begin to see Alfred remembering this, and he begins to track pearls. Prehaps we see him getting off a plane, traveling to the cafe scene, camera focuses in on Selina with pearls on, as Alfred RISES to confront her about the pearls, she moves her head to reveal Bruce to the audience and Alfred, they see each other both smile and he goes to join them. In a way similar feeling to the end of the Shawshank Redemption. Cut to Blake entering the cave, same final sequence, final shot.
Sounds pretty well thought out except for Alfred joining Bruce and Selina. Alfred seeing Bruce happy and then leaving is the best option because Alfred is still part of Bruce's past, which he needs to let go of. As well as Alfred being given the keys to the estate. Now I understand that's why you wouldn't use the orphanage at all, but it plays a part in the fact that Bruce and Blake are both orphans and the last thing Bruce helps his city with his helping out the orphans in the end.

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Old 05-31-2013, 01:37 PM   #102
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Default Re: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises

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That scene was meant as an introduction to the orphanage that plays a pretty important part with the film(especially the ending) as well as bringing up that Batman 'tag' for the first time when Mark draws them on the bench.

The next scene when the orphanage is brought up gives an interesting line on Gordon's whereabouts and the "less you know, Father", which is, imo, a hint of Gordon hiding out until the dust settles so to speak so Gotham wouldn't want his head on a platter when he starts to move forward in his plan to find the bomb.



Besides being a more or less nod to Talia becoming pregnant with Damien, this scene brings up a couple excellent points:

- When Miranda/Talia grabs the picture of Rachel, Bruce can't even look at it anymore and puts it down while Miranda/Talia does her best to get him to forget about everything except for her, even asking where Alfred is. Getting him all to herself then leads to...

- asking Bruce to leave with her to her plane. I saw that as a 'Plan A' sort of thing to get Bruce in The Pit rather than being broken by Bane.



If you leave Miranda with Fox, then you'd need her to be capture just as Fox was.



Sounds pretty well thought out except for Alfred joining Bruce and Selina. Alfred seeing Bruce happy and then leaving is the best option because Alfred is still part of Bruce's past, which he needs to let go of. As well as Alfred being given the keys to the estate. Now I understand that's why you wouldn't use the orphanage at all, but it plays a part in the fact that Bruce and Blake are both orphans and the last thing Bruce helps his city with his helping out the orphans in the end.

Miranda was already with Fox. It's a sloppy scene. She's with Fox when Bane discovers the hideout and kills the FBI Captain, then she's with Gordon, then she's back with Fox again. She's all over the place in that sequence.

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Old 05-31-2013, 03:20 PM   #103
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Yah, she was with Fox, and then she left the site with Blake, but you're sounding like you wanted Miranda/Talia to stay with Fox and be brought to City Hall with Fox.

In the film:

- Miranda/Talia is with Fox when Blake brings the Special Forces members with him to discuss the bomb.

- Bane and his men ransack the place when Fox tells Blake to take Miranda/Talia so she wouldn't be caught and Fox is taken to City Hall.

- Blake brings Miranda/Talia with him to see Gordon while Gordon is talking to Foley.

- Gordon, his men and Miranda/Talia are found out(obviously because of Talia once more as was the case with Fox) and instead of being sent to exile, Bane has Miranda/Talia stayed behind and she's with Fox again when Bruce shows up.

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Old 05-31-2013, 04:10 PM   #104
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Default Re: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises

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But Batman as conceived by Bruce in BB was a symbol to inspire ALL the people of Gotham. His purpose wasn't to gain the trust of the police but inspire everyone in Gotham.
Nolan quite clearly sets the film up to where the next generation of Gotham is the one that will fight for it. Look how the orphans play such a role in the film. Some are going to help bring Bane's revolution ("They say there's work in the sewers.", the dead boy in the outlet) while others are still waiting for Batman's return ("You think he's coming back?"). Blake is an orphan already inspired by Batman as well as the events leading up to Batman's death. He's the only main character not in the know that Bruce Wayne is still alive. And he's also the one character that Bruce gives access to his cave so that he might go on in his stead.

Look at the faces of the kids in the bus and tell me that they aren't going to go on and help Gotham become a greater city past the film's events.

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Old 05-31-2013, 07:03 PM   #105
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Yah, she was with Fox, and then she left the site with Blake, but you're sounding like you wanted Miranda/Talia to stay with Fox and be brought to City Hall with Fox.

In the film:

- Miranda/Talia is with Fox when Blake brings the Special Forces members with him to discuss the bomb.

- Bane and his men ransack the place when Fox tells Blake to take Miranda/Talia so she wouldn't be caught and Fox is taken to City Hall.

- Blake brings Miranda/Talia with him to see Gordon while Gordon is talking to Foley.

- Gordon, his men and Miranda/Talia are found out(obviously because of Talia once more as was the case with Fox) and instead of being sent to exile, Bane has Miranda/Talia stayed behind and she's with Fox again when Bruce shows up.
One moment she's with Gordon at the court, at this point Bane retrieves her. While at the same time, Bruce goes to Fox(Miranda was with him) so we have to imagine this is after the court scene as she's already back with Fox at this point right? Then takes Fox to retrieve the Bat-gear/The Bat we have to assume this takes some time. Then when Gordon is walking the ice, Batman asks where Miranda Tate is. Well, she was with Fox when you spoke with her, after Bane had already abducted her from the court scene. It's clunky sequence, bottom line. Explain it anyway you want to. Plot hole or not, it was bad editing or planning and it didn't need to be that complicated and really her assisting Gordon added nothing to the film. Again, 99 percent of the problems could have been fixed from the editing room. Listen I love the movie, it just wasn't polished enough.


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Old 05-31-2013, 07:13 PM   #106
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Default Re: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises

Still a nine out of ten for me.

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Old 05-31-2013, 07:27 PM   #107
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One moment she's with Gordon at the court, at this point Bane retrieves her. While at the same time, Bruce goes to Fox(Miranda was with him) so we have to imagine this is after the court scene as she's already back with Fox at this point right? Then takes Fox to retrieve the Bat-gear/The Bat we have to assume this takes some time. Then when Gordon is walking the ice, Batman asks where Miranda Tate is. Well, she was with Fox when you spoke with her, after Bane had already abducted her from the court scene. It's clunky sequence, bottom line. Explain it anyway you want to. Plot hole or not, it was bad editing or planning and it didn't need to be that complicated and really her assisting Gordon added nothing to the film. Again, 99 percent of the problems could have been fixed from the editing room. Listen I love the movie, it just wasn't polished enough.
The bold is where it's sloppy. The bold is in part of dialogue where the scenes are switched around in the script, although in the film, it makes more sense and that piece of dialogue from Batman shouldn't have been said. Everything else works though. Miranda/Talia being taken to the back and being there with Fox when Bruce shows up is definitely, definitely reasonable.

And also her assisting Gordon had importance simply because she was the mole helping the LoS in taking out opposition within Gotham City.

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Old 05-31-2013, 07:45 PM   #108
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Default Re: Updated Rating for The Dark Knight Rises

Still 8/10, same as TDK. BB is the best of the bunch with 8.5/10.

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Old 05-31-2013, 09:34 PM   #109
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9/10 for me these days, the same I give TDK. 10/10 was probably a bit too much, but hey, that's how much TDKR meant to me, although I will take the score down a notch as no CBM is downright perfect. And BB is a very high 8/10.

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Old 05-31-2013, 09:55 PM   #110
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Well, I don't think I'll be joining the lively debate on the story part of TDKR.

But I must note that in MANY aspects, it was the best of the trilogy

-Best cinematography

-Best action/fight scenes of the trilogy

-Best score of the trilogy

-Best performance of Bale

-The suit looked best in Rises. Hands down, Idc if its the same suit

-Best batcave

-Best female character in Selina Kyle

-The Bat

Sure, TDK MIGHT have been a better film overall, but I prefer to see the trilogy as one long story rather than three films. And it is undeniable that some of the best scenes of this story come from Rises.

We can talk all day about how Bruce came back to Gotham from India or any other little nitpicks, but I think you're losing focus of what a great batman movie it was when you do that. Just look at the points (some debatable) above.

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Old 06-01-2013, 11:25 AM   #111
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Sounds pretty well thought out except for Alfred joining Bruce and Selina. Alfred seeing Bruce happy and then leaving is the best option because Alfred is still part of Bruce's past, which he needs to let go of. As well as Alfred being given the keys to the estate. Now I understand that's why you wouldn't use the orphanage at all, but it plays a part in the fact that Bruce and Blake are both orphans and the last thing Bruce helps his city with his helping out the orphans in the end.
I wouldn't just give up Wayne Manor to orphanage in the end is all, and cut a 2 minute scene where Blake visits.

Though I can see your point about Alfred joining Bruce at the end, maybe a simple smile and nod is all we need and then the viewer can decide what happens next. Though I still like Alfred tracking down the pearls as a better method for the ending sequence.

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Old 06-01-2013, 05:22 PM   #112
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I liked it better that he just happened to see Bruce. It added to Bruce's mystic a bit...if you get what I mean. The movie was about Bruce, and the fact that, after everything he had been through, in the end he made Alfred's dream come true was awesome.

Also, Alfred tracking him down and finding him is rather stalkerish, and it would make it seem like Bruce didn't want to see Alfred.

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Old 06-01-2013, 05:53 PM   #113
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For me it was the opposite. When Alfred nodded, I totally was ready to throw popcorn at the screen if Nolan just cut away ala Inception. When Bruce's face lit up the screen I cathartically applauded along with the rest of the theater. After 3 films, it just felt right to have closure. The happy ending was earned and then some.

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Old 06-01-2013, 07:46 PM   #114
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I liked it better that he just happened to see Bruce. It added to Bruce's mystic a bit...if you get what I mean. The movie was about Bruce, and the fact that, after everything he had been through, in the end he made Alfred's dream come true was awesome.

Also, Alfred tracking him down and finding him is rather stalkerish, and it would make it seem like Bruce didn't want to see Alfred.
It wouldn't seem stalkerish, it would be a surprise for Alfred (and the audience) to find Bruce when tracking the pearls. Alfred knowing that there is GPS tracking on the pearls, decides to track them down because he feels obligated to Bruce because he cherished them. Maybe Alfred had a hunch that Bruce may be alive, maybe he hopes he finds him there. It's something that could have been left up to the viewer and something that could have been beautifully acted. So when the audience sees Alfred at that cafe we don't know exactly what is going to happen next. He gets a surprise and so does the audience. If it ended that way, there would have never been the confusion that "was it all a dream" and it would have been a much more concise ending.


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Old 06-01-2013, 10:23 PM   #115
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It wouldn't seem stalkerish, it would be a surprise for Alfred (and the audience) to find Bruce when tracking the pearls. Alfred knowing that there is GPS tracking on the pearls, decides to track them down because he feels obligated to Bruce because he cherished them. Maybe Alfred had a hunch that Bruce may be alive, maybe he hopes he finds him there. It's something that could have been left up to the viewer and something that could have been beautifully acted. So when the audience sees Alfred at that cafe we don't know exactly what is going to happen next. He gets a surprise and so does the audience. If it ended that way, there would have never been the confusion that "was it all a dream" and it would have been a much more concise ending.
i see both sides of this debate, and i think both of you are right. i really do believe now that bruce knew that alfred would be suspcious about the pearls and track them. because he did look quite anxious when he sat down. and after the ending scenes in tdk about having your faith rewarded alfred finally got his. as did bruce. but thats just my 2 cents.

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Old 06-01-2013, 10:26 PM   #116
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or i could be wrong and alfred was just dreaming after that delicious fernae branca

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Old 06-02-2013, 02:33 AM   #117
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I'm definitely partial to the way TDKR ended than think of something else. I liked the idea that Bruce gave Wayne Manor to the orphanage as long as it's not interfered with or worked on(as stated on the will), so to keep anyone from knowing about the Batcave except for Blake(and one could say Blake will now work at the orphanage as well), as well as Alfred looking over at Bruce and Selina but then leaving, letting Bruce have his clean slate.

And it took me for ever to realize that Wayne Enterprises would be fine when the will mentions that they will sell Bruce's contents at the manor to clear the debt while the rest that's left goes to Alfred. I swear, for a long, long time, I felt it was a plot hole that we are left to wonder what will happen to Wayne Enterprises, but it's not one after all. Wayne Enterprises should be just fine, especially with Fox back heading over the company.

And buff17, back to our conversation about the editing with Miranda/Talia in TDKR, and the main issue of Batman asking where Miranda Tate was...besides something viewed as an error, Miranda Tate IS the head of Wayne Enterprises at that time and it could be viewed, from Gordon's point of view, that Batman is just wanting to know where the head of Wayne Enterprises is so she could help with the nuclear bomb.

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Old 06-02-2013, 03:11 AM   #118
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Ugh, here we go with the honesty.

I was apart of the viral for TDK (early 2007) and ever since I found out TDKR was going into production I followed every news update and posted here frequently. This movie in my mind was going to blow my socks into my mouth and out where the sun don't shine.

After about probably 10 viewings since release, I have to say, Nolan made some ballsy decisions with the movie, and most of those ballsy moves didn't help per say, but just stood out because they were "different". Lack of Batman and a lot of his tech/Batman persona (like come on....he was barely Batman until the last act of the film) and Banes death.

I loved the film when it came out, but even after my second viewing I knew something didn't feel too right. This was a easy 9/10 in July of 2012, and now as of June 2013 this movie is a solid 7.5/10. It's a great achievement in film, and acting, and visuals, just sometimes when I watch this movie, it doesn't feel right.

BB - 8/10
TDK - 9.5/10
TDKR - 7.5/10

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TDKR, even though I gave it a lower rating then BB, I still consider it a better film in the trilogy because of the extensive action, Tom Hardy and his almost god sent Bane, and the hair rising score/cinematography. It's the creme de le creme of super hero movie technical achievements.

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Old 06-02-2013, 11:02 AM   #119
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^ That's an interesting and honest take.

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Old 06-02-2013, 02:46 PM   #120
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^ That's an interesting and honest take.
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Old 06-02-2013, 06:54 PM   #121
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I don't give movies star ratings or ? Out of 10 or 5. I either like it, love it or don't. When you start giving movies ratings like 4.5 out of 5 I just find that being too picky. And yes people do find some movies to be perfect. It's ignorant to say they don't.

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Old 06-02-2013, 07:01 PM   #122
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I'm starting to think that TDKR might be a little better than BB, objectively speaking. But for me personally, BB is still the solid number two in the trilogy.

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Old 06-02-2013, 11:11 PM   #123
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Batman Begins- Best on first watch. I had high expectations and they were actually exceeded. Tougher to sit down and watch now, but I've watched it 20 or 30 times so that might have something to do with it.

The Dark Knight- Went in with expectations too high, was slightly disappointed until I watched it again. On my second viewing I felt far more emotional at the end and felt like it was the best ending to a film I'd ever experienced. Picked up even more details that I missed on my 3rd viewing. Happily watched this film at least 7 times during it's theatrical run and countless times until TDKR arrived.

The Dark Knight Rises- First watch experience was great. Very exciting, but I knew that TDK was a superior film just after watching it. Watched it at least 4 more times during it's run, and several times since on Blu-Ray. I'm back and forth on the film, it's grown on me. It's made it harder though to go back and revisit the other films. Maybe, after a few years I'll be able to come back and revisit the entire franchise.

I still feel the ending of The Dark Knight is the greatest ending to a movie of all time. That feeling at the end, there's not enough words to explain it for me. Stroke of genius, I'd love to hear about the creative process that came up with that.

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Old 06-02-2013, 11:15 PM   #124
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I still feel the ending of The Dark Knight is the greatest ending to a movie of all time. That feeling at the end, there's not enough words to explain it for me. Stroke of genius, I'd love to hear about the creative process that came up with that.
Yeah, the TDK ending is really classic.

One thing I do know is that Nolan said the ending was one of the first things they came up with and that he wrote the ending speech way before the rest of the script was written. So that was definitely their goalpost from the beginning.

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Old 06-03-2013, 01:09 AM   #125
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As I rate TDKR only a little higher than TDK while both giving them a 9/10, the same goes for the ending. TDKR's ending is a little bit higher, imo, but TDK's ending is still so amazing. Two of the greatest endings on film for sure.

It would've been really amazing if that same score was behind the ending of BB with the Joker card reveal.

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