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Old 06-03-2013, 07:55 AM   #26
cherokeesam
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Default Re: Could Ultron be...?

I disagree strongly with your opinion of IM3, VictorShade; but agree strongly with your opinion of Ultron being a Tony Stark creation.

Again, Ultron's story is unique in the admittedly overcrowded world of killer robotics in his/its relationship with Hank Pym. Not just the Oedipal storyline; but what also adds to the Greek tragedy is the fact that Pym is such a nebbish. Pym is a born loser, a nice guy who tries too hard to measure up to the (literal) gods in his midst, and fails spectacularly most of the time. Ultron is the most visible example of this. Tony Stark, OTOH, is the luckiest sumbeech on the planet, who can *never* do wrong, even when he tries. So foisting Ultron on *his* shoulders lessens not just Hank Pym, but Tony Stark as well.

No thanks.

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Old 06-03-2013, 10:43 AM   #27
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Eh, Tony Stark does plenty of wrong. Its just, unlike Pym, he actually has a decent heroic core that lets him get back up, and try to fix his mistakes. Stark is a flawed hero; Pym is merely a terrible one. If I had to give the most positive spin on Pym I can manage, it would be that he really should have ended up a mad scientist *villain*; for various reasons, though, he struggles against his nature and tries to be a hero instead, with only marginal success.

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Old 06-03-2013, 10:56 AM   #28
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********! If they make Jarvis Ultron, and make Ultron all Tony related instead of Hank, screw 'em, I'll be done with the MCU.
What they should do, is leave Ultron wholly a Hank creation/mistake, and make the story where, in the end, JARVIS is the one who defeats Ultron. (AI vs AI)
If JARVIS HAS to be integral to the Ultron storyline.
Dramatic much? LOL

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Old 06-03-2013, 11:07 AM   #29
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Default Re: Could Ultron be...?

I always wanted Paul Bettany to play the Vision so I think I'd be okay with Jarvis becoming vision somehow

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Old 06-03-2013, 11:48 AM   #30
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Dramatic much? LOL
That's called "Passion", Rock...Passion

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Old 06-03-2013, 05:23 PM   #31
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Default Re: Could Ultron be...?

oh no another ROCK? RockPassion?
wait never mind....that could go places it shouldn't

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Old 06-03-2013, 06:47 PM   #32
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Part of the problem with trying to transfer Ultron's origin to Stark is that, in the movies? Stark simply wouldn't serve as Frankenstein.
so you haven't read Armor Wars? that was all about Stark's technology getting into the wrongs hands and him having to go to extreme measure to stop it. pretty much any inventor could play this role.

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Old 06-03-2013, 06:50 PM   #33
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they could introduce Janet into the Avengers, to start with. then have Ultron appear as Pym (using his form, at first); having drawn out the Oedipus Complex to the point where he has replaced his father. then it would be primarily a jan story; since Whedon likes her.

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Old 06-03-2013, 06:54 PM   #34
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The Oedipus Complex would probably be changed to a more Frankenstien Complex for the MCU. But with Ultrons AI 'mind', being based on Pym's brain somehow, the endearment to Jan may evolve anyway.
But if they take away that big a portion of what makes Hank special and interesting, why introduce him into the MCU at all.
to give Janet Van Dyne powers, of course. and he could be a love interest in the same way that Jane Foster is Thor's.

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Old 06-03-2013, 10:13 PM   #35
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[QUOTE=cherokeesam;25992611]I disagree strongly with your opinion of IM3, VictorShade; but agree strongly with your opinion of Ultron being a Tony Stark creation.

Yeah, it didn't really suck I guess. Still found it 'underwhelming'. A great waste of a Mandarin I would have totally bought into.
The most redeeming feature of Iron Man 3 for me, is the introduction of AIM into the MCU. That's SuWEEEEET!!!

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Old 06-03-2013, 10:37 PM   #36
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No, just no.
I wish I could rep you.

So much this.

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Old 07-26-2013, 12:05 AM   #37
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No, just no.
This. A thousand times over...this.

There can be no Ultron without Hank Pym. Now, does Marvel get this?

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Old 07-26-2013, 04:47 AM   #38
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This. A thousand times over...this.

There can be no Ultron without Hank Pym. Now, does Marvel get this?


Dare I say,(especially after the whole Mandarin situation) Marvel been actin' just a liiiiiiiitle too cocky for their own good.They've been pretty good about sticking to source for the most part,but I get the feeling they think they can do no wrong at this point.

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Old 07-26-2013, 04:02 PM   #39
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Default Re: Could Ultron be...?

they aren' that stupid...ant-man comes out shortly after...there WILL be ties

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Old 08-01-2013, 12:41 AM   #40
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Default Re: Could Ultron be...?

what if Antman is actually a prequel to all the Avengers movies (except for Cap America of course) ?

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Old 08-29-2013, 08:12 AM   #41
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Default Re: Could Ultron be...?

Hey, remember when I suggested this and you all thought I was crazy.

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Old 08-31-2013, 12:35 PM   #42
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I'm betting Ultron exists as an AI...I bet we WILL see this AI in avengers 2
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Hey, remember when I suggested this and you all thought I was crazy.
And still do. Jarvis isn't becoming Ultron

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Old 09-12-2013, 05:56 PM   #43
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Jarvis will rise.

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Old 09-12-2013, 06:39 PM   #44
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There's been plenty of suggestions to this effect; but what makes Ultron's story unique to Hank Pym is the whole oedipus complex that develops between Mommy (Janet Van Dyne), Daddy (Hank Pym), and Son (Ultron). It's a twisted Freudian freakshow, but it's really what's driven Ultron all along over the decades.

If you throw away Ultron's connection to Hank Pym, you turn him into just another Killer Robot. If you keep the Pym connection, then there's a really chilling psychodrama going on there between Creator and Created, with Pym as the "failed" hero who never can seem to live up to the high standards of his all-star comrades, Ultron as his greatest (and simultaneously worst) creation, and Janet as the object of *both* their (often unwanted) affections.

Ultron just doesn't work on a psychological level with anybody but Pym. Pym has to be his creator, and Janet has to be his oedipus complex. That's what separates his story from the usual Killer Robot stereotype.
Thank you. Brilliantly put.

There is no excuse for the way Marvel has treated Hank Pym. Not only has he been robbed already of his status as one of the most important member on the team by making him appear so late into the game, but robbing him from Ultron has also robbed him of all of his most interesting character arcs.

The way Marvel is treating Hank Pym is no different than how Fox treated Cyclops, maybe even a bit worse. Both major members on each respective team who both had their importance to their team downplayed and were robbed of their most interesting aspects. But of course that Marvel gets away with it.


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Old 09-13-2013, 01:30 AM   #45
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Well, maybe Antman will a prequel movie

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