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Old 06-03-2013, 02:54 PM   #526
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

That is totally awesome. Keaton, what a boss.

I love the genuine pride Jack takes in movie too, it's so obvious.

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Old 06-03-2013, 10:30 PM   #527
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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Jesus Christ,was he SO desperate for Bruce to not be Batman that he wanted a chick he barely knew (and who's sole purpose of coming to Gotham was to EXPOSE BATMAN!!!) to be Bruce's soulmate?
Yes. That's pretty much what happened. Alfred sees Vicki as Bruce's chance at a normal life, and the scene that follows is about Bruce rejecting that normal life because he's needed as Batman. And it's fairly heavily implied that she already knows Bruce is Batman in the movie.

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I can't be cynical and overanalyze Bruce/Vicki that much. Frankly, in most films, especially films before the whole "Everything has to make absolute perfect sense or else we'll nitpick it" era that we're now in had relationships that developed quickly. I'm not gonna look at Bruce/Vicki with a overly realistic lens and go "Bruce only dug her cause she's the first girl he diddled, and she only likes him for his mystery". I think their connection was genuine, even if the execution of their romance dosen't hold up to 21st century scrutiny.
I don't get the complaints. The relationship between Bruce and Vicki is one of the more natural ones seen in superhero films, especially of the era. The “dinner” scene alone is more grounded and more powerful than anything found in most superhero movie franchises, or movie franchises period, for that matter.

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Old 06-03-2013, 10:52 PM   #528
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Yes. That's pretty much what happened. Alfred sees Vicki as Bruce's chance at a normal life, and the scene that follows is about Bruce rejecting that normal life because he's needed as Batman. And it's fairly heavily implied that she already knows Bruce is Batman in the movie.



I don't get the complaints. The relationship between Bruce and Vicki is one of the more natural ones seen in superhero films, especially of the era. The “dinner” scene alone is more grounded and more powerful than anything found in most superhero movie franchises, or movie franchises period, for that matter.

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Old 06-04-2013, 07:41 AM   #529
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Back to analysing the Joker

I always felt the Joker's goal in the film was a bit aimless. He goes from this to that, then that to this.
I understand that's how he works in the comics, but I don't think, on the surface, it translated that well for film.

That's why I had to analyse his motives and actions.

To start with. Jack was a narcissistic. Overtly psychotic, enjoyed hurting and killing people, even through his straight look exterior. Respected art, saw himself as art. Enjoyed being in power. Liked the women, particularly blondes!

After his scarring, he saw himself as a piece of art. This was because he couldn't cope with his once perfect look being gone.
After nearly dying, he took a different approach to life, he saw it as therapy. Releasing himself from his straight faced and boring side. Heavily embracing his enjoyment of death.
But we know not his death from the end. ..as somebody said before, he was the Partyman...he didn't want it to end.
And perhaps he took enjoyment in it, because of his fear of it?
He screamed when falling to his own "deaths". Tried seeing the funny side in death, namely others, but not his own.

And why try to turn Gotham like him? Because he's a nut!
He wanted to scar people and make them look like him.

It wasn't just the comics calling card. It was his philosophy. He wanted to shape Gotham in his own image. Because he came to a psychotic vision in his head.
But notice how this all resulted in the deaths of people?

Is that what he wanted? To make people die with smiles on their faces? To remind himself that death is fine and funny? That they went out laughing and smiling?

And it's funny, how he came up with this plan, as soon as he saw Vicki and knew she was a photographer.
How he tracked her down and just so conveniently had this plan to use her to record his work.
He came up with it as soon as he knew what she did.

But of course, this only happened also because of the thoughts already in his head about looking like a piece of art and his views on death as the Joker.
But she catapulted his new calculating mind into overdrive.

Then when that failed. When he realised she was with Bruce. That he couldn't win her the way he thought, he just decided to kill as many people as he could.
And we should know, when things don't go his way, he kills.
He had an image to turn Gotham like himself, so he could SIMPLY hook up with Vicki. That's how crazy he is.
And when that failed, he took it out on everybody. Wanting to relive people of their failed and useless lives, and getting a laugh along the way.

Of course he was already murdering people before hand, poisoning with the Smylex.
But remember. Death to him, is art, as he stated to Vicki. He likes it.

He was looking through her portfolio, because he wanted to see her pics of her time in Corto Moltese, pics of corpes posed in model like ways. He knew it beforehand. Hence the Smylex incident. That was done for Vicki.

And I'm not forgetting that he already had the chemical plot in his mind...because we saw the file for the chemicals on a table BEFORE he saw Vicki.
He was already planning to poison Gotham...but as I said. This was because of his new views on death...asserting his fear of it and attempting to remind himself that death will be alright, as long as you've got a smile on your face....uh huh.

But it did change in some way when he discovered Vicki.

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Old 06-05-2013, 05:39 AM   #530
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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Yes. That's pretty much what happened. Alfred sees Vicki as Bruce's chance at a normal life, and the scene that follows is about Bruce rejecting that normal life because he's needed as Batman. And it's fairly heavily implied that she already knows Bruce is Batman in the movie.



I don't get the complaints. The relationship between Bruce and Vicki is one of the more natural ones seen in superhero films, especially of the era. The “dinner” scene alone is more grounded and more powerful than anything found in most superhero movie franchises, or movie franchises period, for that matter.
Too true. I guess people have been spoiled by things like Spider Man, where Tobey's Spider-Man was in love with MJ since he was six.

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Old 06-05-2013, 11:53 PM   #531
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Old 06-05-2013, 11:54 PM   #532
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

It's so weird, cause I never heard anyone mention that, until TDK came out.

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:00 AM   #533
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Lol same here. Funny how a lot of people these days are going anal about the neck issue in the previous films yet nobody ever complained or ever thought about it as a legitimate issue prior to 2008.

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:01 AM   #534
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

That suit still looks better than the Chris Bale one. Even in photographs like that where you can tell it's a little stiff, it's so beastly.

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Old 06-06-2013, 12:09 AM   #535
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

The neck thing definitely got talked about before 2008. It was a pretty common observation from what I remember. Not just for 89, but all the Burton/Schumacher movies. Even with BB, they wanted to fix it but were unable to as it was still ultimately a rubber suit just like the old ones. Bale does an epic Bat-turn after the "I'll look into it" line at the end of BB.

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Old 06-06-2013, 03:37 AM   #536
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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Too true. I guess people have been spoiled by things like Spider Man, where Tobey's Spider-Man was in love with MJ since he was six.
Oh Hod. And of course he thought she was "an angel," lived right next to each other for years and apparently never had a word, until one day they both happened to take out the trash at the same time for the first time in their lives. All of it was so ridiculously unconvincing and cliched that kicked me out of the suspension of disbelief in a flash. I'd swear all the theater could hear my eyes rolling.

Ah well, so Batman 89. Yes, I never ever thought about the neck until I set foot in a superhero movies forum. That first suit was wonderful.

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Old 06-06-2013, 10:44 AM   #537
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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The neck thing definitely got talked about before 2008. It was a pretty common observation from what I remember. Not just for 89, but all the Burton/Schumacher movies. Even with BB, they wanted to fix it but were unable to as it was still ultimately a rubber suit just like the old ones. Bale does an epic Bat-turn after the "I'll look into it" line at the end of BB.
Indeed to all of this. Neck problems and all, the Begins suit is my all time favorite. I REALLY hoped they would at least keep the chest symbol in the TDK suit. Because, man, that thing is badass.

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Old 06-07-2013, 09:53 PM   #538
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Too bad they didn't and we ended up with a bra like chest piece with a tiny symbol on it.

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Old 06-07-2013, 09:59 PM   #539
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Too bad they didn't and we ended up with a bra like chest piece with a tiny symbol on it.


But yeah.....

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Old 06-07-2013, 10:06 PM   #540
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

I seem to remember that the church-tower finale was written in at the end of filming to quickly wrap up the film. Does anyone know what the film's original finale was to be like? Wasn't the film growing too long so they cut it short with the church-tower fight?

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Old 06-07-2013, 10:14 PM   #541
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

I remember something about Batman chasing Joker through a park on horseback, where incidentally, the Grayson family would have been killed.

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Old 06-07-2013, 10:15 PM   #542
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lolwut?

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Old 06-08-2013, 02:41 AM   #543
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I remember something about Batman chasing Joker through a park on horseback, where incidentally, the Grayson family would have been killed.
That was one of the early scripts, yes. It supposed to be both Batman and Vicky riding. This was the scene actress Sean Young was practicing for when she had a riding accident and was left out of the movie.

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Old 06-08-2013, 06:43 AM   #544
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

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That was one of the early scripts, yes. It supposed to be both Batman and Vicky riding. This was the scene actress Sean Young was practicing for when she had a riding accident and was left out of the movie.
No... they were supposedly riding horses around Wayne Manor. She was only training for that.

I need to refresh my memory on this, but, Batman on horseback was meant to happen after Bruce visited Vicki's apartment (at night). After Joker ''shoots'' him... he suits up, leaps on a horse and chases Joker who kills the Grayson family. The horses and circus being present thanks to the festival.

As we see on the DVD storyboard. Minus the Graysons, it would have been great to have seen Keaton as Bats on horseback.

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Old 06-08-2013, 10:54 AM   #545
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

Yep! For that moment Sam Hamm was tipping his hat to TDKReturns.

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Old 06-08-2013, 11:13 AM   #546
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No... they were supposedly riding horses around Wayne Manor. She was only training for that.

I need to refresh my memory on this, but, Batman on horseback was meant to happen after Bruce visited Vicki's apartment (at night). After Joker ''shoots'' him... he suits up, leaps on a horse and chases Joker who kills the Grayson family. The horses and circus being present thanks to the festival.

As we see on the DVD storyboard. Minus the Graysons, it would have been great to have seen Keaton as Bats on horseback.
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Old 06-08-2013, 11:17 AM   #547
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

I actually sounds kinda cool for Bats to be chasing Joker through a circus. That sort of over-the-top atmosphere seems like Joker's sort of thing.

I like the church-tower finale, its just that church is absurdly huge.

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Old 06-08-2013, 12:18 PM   #548
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I actually sounds kinda cool for Bats to be chasing Joker through a circus. That sort of over-the-top atmosphere seems like Joker's sort of thing.

I like the church-tower finale, its just that church is absurdly huge.
Haha, yes. Well, the whole movie is like that, expressionistic and over the top. But it was such a Phantastic homage to Hitchcock's Vertigo.

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Old 06-08-2013, 04:48 PM   #549
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

If they ever did do a short theatrical release I would definitely go, just to enjoy the ambiance of the big screen and the movies score played on a huge sound system...

I wish I had gotten to see MOTP in theaters..Jokers laugh echoing in the big building must have sounded creepy in a theater.

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Old 06-08-2013, 05:33 PM   #550
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 3

I much much much prefer what we got as the cathedral ending compared to Keaton's Batman on horseback, just doesn't fit the tone of the film to me.

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