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View Poll Results: "S" plastic shield vs broken neck.
"S" shield, cool new power designed to kill powerless enemies. 7 6.93%
Broken neck to save a family and millions of future innocent lives. 94 93.07%
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:57 PM   #201
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I believe its pretty darn similar to that of Batman's one rule. Superman in the comics seems to always find a way around homicide as an answer to a villain's evils.

With all the power that Supes has, I imagine that's generally not a problem for him. But Zod was roughly on par with Superman's power level. Presenting a serious problem.
See, that's the thing. Killing Zod is the only outcome too. Superman is unaware of using The Phantom Zone again as well as any other way to weaken Zod when he(Zod) promised he will kill all of humanity now since Superman put a stop to Zod's plan of making a new Krypton and of its people by destroying the World Engine and sending the Black Zone and Zod's soldiers to TPZ.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:11 PM   #202
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I felt more like "WHAT DID YOU MAKE ME DO?" or "WHY DID YOU MAKE ME DO THIS!"



Partly because, yeah. Zod forced him to kill the only "surviving" member of his species. Sad indeed.
Did'nt Faora and some of the others survive, they just got sent to the Phantom Zone again?

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:14 PM   #203
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Did'nt Faora and some of the others survive, they just got sent to the Phantom Zone again?
thus the quotation marks

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:15 PM   #204
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Why can't Superman kill? You can't just say "because he's SUPERMAN." Characters need a motivation. You can't have Superman refuse to kill nearly unstoppable villains who aim to murder everyone in their path, and justify it by saying, "well Superman doesn't kill." He needs a reason to be willing to put the world at risk by keeping these dangerous villains alive. And you know what's a good reason? Having Superman brutally murder the first villain he faces because there is literally no other way to stop him.

You need to start somewhere. If you want Superman to be against killing villains, then you need to give him a specific reason for this mindset. That is where rules come from. Rules are made only AFTER something bad happens. There needs to be some kind of precedent. Superman is not born with a rule against killing. He has that rule because he HAS killed, and he knows it's something he needs to prevent in the future.

Also, let's do a comparison:

Superman 2 - Zod, Ursa, and Non are all DEPOWERED. They no longer pose a threat. Superman could easily fly them to a prison, or put them in a cage in the fortress. But no, he tosses Zod off a cliff in the fortress. Then Non falls. Then Lois pushes Ursa off the cliff too. Obviously these three depowered villains fall to their deaths. No one was in danger anymore. They were powerless. Yet Superman goes out of his way to kill them. How does Superman respond? He smiles, and Lois smiles, and they hug.

Man of Steel - There is no way to stop Zod. Zod stops giving a ****, has a deathwish, and now exists only to kill humans until Superman kills him. Zod is about to kill three people, Superman's only options are A) let him kill the humans, B) somehow get Zod away from them and then follow Zod around the planet stopping him from killing people for the next billion years, or C) kill Zod to save millions of lives and end the destruction. Don't even try to tell me the first two options are viable. When Superman does kill Zod, his reacts very strongly. He is devastated. The subject is treated seriously, and not seen as a time for celebration.

Say what you will about the neck snap, but at least this Superman didn't kill a powerless Zod for no reason and then smile about it.
You've accidentally pointed out the very worst offense of this movie.

Superman doesn't kill because of his greatest super power...a power NOT given to him by chance of his Kryptonian birth. He has super-morals, that he developed by being raised by Ma and Pa Kent. As a baby, he crash landed into the best possible place...a place where the people were so pure, so good...that they raised a man who was everything that humanity aspires to be. Clark Kent is the Man of Tomorrow...and he occasionally puts on a costume. It is his goodness that inspires us, not his fists.

Man of Steel stripped the Kents of their goodness. They turned Pa into a man who spent Clark's entire childhood teaching him that maybe you should stand around and do nothing while people die. Maybe you should stand there and watch as the people you love are needlessly wiped out. This is a TOTAL injustice to the Kents.

Instead, Man of Steel gave us Kal, son of Jor-el. He used his Kryptonian powers to punch and break his way to victory. He killed TWO Kryptonians, and had no reaction at all after killing the first...so killing is no big deal to him...UNLESS it means that he will be unable to get information he wants because of it. His sadness over killing his SECOND Krytptonian of the day comes with the realization that his desire to learn more about his birth home could not be realized. It wasn't the killing that bothered him...it was the sense of being the last of his kind. There is no reason to believe that he is above killing again.

Man of Steel is an origin story...but it is not Superman's origin. Superman is Clark Kent, son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. He happens to be an alien from Krypton, but that isn't what makes him great or worthy of our respect.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:25 PM   #205
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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You've accidentally pointed out the very worst offense of this movie.

Superman doesn't kill because of his greatest super power...a power NOT given to him by chance of his Kryptonian birth. He has super-morals, that he developed by being raised by Ma and Pa Kent. As a baby, he crash landed into the best possible place...a place where the people were so pure, so good...that they raised a man who was everything that humanity aspires to be. Clark Kent is the Man of Tomorrow...and he occasionally puts on a costume. It is his goodness that inspires us, not his fists.

Man of Steel stripped the Kents of their goodness. They turned Pa into a man who spent Clark's entire childhood teaching him that maybe you should stand around and do nothing while people die. Maybe you should stand there and watch as the people you love are needlessly wiped out. This is a TOTAL injustice to the Kents.

Instead, Man of Steel gave us Kal, son of Jor-el. He used his Kryptonian powers to punch and break his way to victory. He killed TWO Kryptonians, and had no reaction at all after killing the first...so killing is no big deal to him...UNLESS it means that he will be unable to get information he wants because of it. His sadness over killing his SECOND Krytptonian of the day comes with the realization that his desire to learn more about his birth home could not be realized. It wasn't the killing that bothered him...it was the sense of being the last of his kind. There is no reason to believe that he is above killing again.

Man of Steel is an origin story...but it is not Superman's origin. Superman is Clark Kent, son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. He happens to be an alien from Krypton, but that isn't what makes him great or worthy of our respect.
I don't understand where you are getting these two killings from. You mentioned Tor-An earlier. I believe he was the person fighting w/ Faora against Superman in Smallville. What makes you think he died? Nothing I saw suggested that other guy died.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:25 PM   #206
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Yes...because now Clark would never learn more about his heritage. It was NOT sadness over the act of killing.
Sorry but I'm calling you out on your assertion, as you are stating it as fact, when it is just your opinion. Superman was forced imo to make a terrible choice. Let the people die and continue fighting Zod, in which case even more people would die in the the ensuing carnage, or Kill Zod. I feel that the way Zod was dealt with/dispatched is directly connected to Pa Kent's Death. Clark could have saved him, but he didn't intervene (at Pa Kent's request) and I think he regrets that decision not to go against his wishes, and has decided that he won't let anyone else die if it is within his power to stop it. Imo He cried out primarily because he was distraught at being forced to take a life, no matter how evil Zod was. I will grant you the possibility that a part of his anguish was due in part to Zod being the last of his kind, but it wasn't the overriding reason.. Not to name drop ( as I certainly don't know him) but one of my friends knows Goyer very well. I'm going to ask him hopefully on Monday to see if he can get some clarification next time he speaks to him. He hasn't seen MOS yet so I might have to ask him about this later. I would certainly like to know for sure, even though I'm fine with how it was resolved, as to my way of thinking it is totally consistent from a moral standpoint with the Superman that I grew up with. This doesn't make him a killer/murderer..

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:28 PM   #207
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Maybe I missed that moment when Jax-Ur died. I guess I'll have to rewatch the movie. As for Zod, suggest something different for his fate.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:29 PM   #208
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

MOS shows that a symbol of hope can even make a mistake. He will learn from it and that is the point. MOS is about breaking Kal/Clark down and showing his weaknesses and how he will deal with the repercussions of his choices just like any mortal man would have to.


Its all about connection. This is how we as normal humans can connect on an emotional level with Superman/Kal-el.

We all make mistakes and the best thing that we can do as mortal man to move on and learn, is to never repeat that mistake.

MOS is simply a learning process for Kal and its a fantastic film overall.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:30 PM   #209
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Maybe I missed that moment when Tor-An died. I guess I'll have to rewatch the movie. As for Zod, suggest something different for his fate.
Because he didn't. I am pretty sure he was the guy that picked Faora up after the missile hit her and took her into the Kryptonian ship to retreat.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:31 PM   #210
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

"Superman doesn't kill because of his greatest super power...a power NOT given to him by chance of his Kryptonian birth. He has super-morals, that he developed by being raised by Ma and Pa Kent. As a baby, he crash landed into the best possible place...a place where the people were so pure, so good...that they raised a man who was everything that humanity aspires to be. Clark Kent is the Man of Tomorrow...and he occasionally puts on a costume. It is his goodness that inspires us, not his fists."

Morals for the most part change and adapt as far as human beings are concerned. Humans don't remain stagnant they evolve and change unless there is an absolute standard that guides and governs everything and provides an example of what right conduct is. Yes at the core of the Kents are strong morals but not everyone sees things as set in stone and unchangeable.

I don't know if Clark was raised by the Kents with Christian values but even within the Christian faith there is justification for killing. What is forbidden is down right premeditated murder. It seems to be implied that Jonathan Kent is out of character but what if you were raising someone like Clark with his unique abilities and you know the fear that people have about others being different. Would you not be paranoid somewhat trying to protect your child?

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:31 PM   #211
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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As for Zod, suggest something different for his fate.
Zod kills himself
now THAT would be something haha

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:32 PM   #212
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

IMHO, I'm not bothered he made that decision, just that he was forced to it. Consider MOS is the first reboot, it kind of starts Superman on an awkward leg. But it also HUMANIZES him, showing the pain of his actions, unlike many characters out there.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:33 PM   #213
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Zod kills himself
now THAT would be something haha
Only if it was Green-Goblin style. Anything else would be lame

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:36 PM   #214
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Sorry but I'm calling you out on your assertion, as you are stating it as fact, when it is just your opinion. Superman was forced imo to make a terrible choice. Let the people die and continue fighting Zod, in which case even more people would die in the the ensuing carnage, or Kill Zod. I feel that the way Zod was dealt with/dispatched is directly connected to Pa Kent's Death. Clark could have saved him, but he didn't intervene (at Pa Kent's request) and I think he regrets that decision not to go against his wishes, and has decided that he won't let anyone else die if it is within his power to stop it. Imo He cried out primarily because he was distraught at being forced to take a life, no matter how evil Zod was. I will grant you the possibility that a part of his anguish was due in part to Zod being the last of his kind, but it wasn't the overriding reason.. Not to name drop ( as I certainly don't know him) but one of my friends knows Goyer very well. I'm going to ask him hopefully on Monday to see if he can get some clarification next time he speaks to him. He hasn't seen MOS yet so I might have to ask him about this later. I would certainly like to know for sure, even though I'm fine with how it was resolved, as to my way of thinking it is totally consistent from a moral standpoint with the Superman that I grew up with. This doesn't make him a killer/murderer..
I can only go on what the movie gave us. This movie gave us a Clark that spent the entire film searching for a connection with his home planet. He dedicated his life to it. He even said to Pa Kent that he wasn't his "real father." According to this movie, Clark spent is entire life on this quest. Also...this movie NEVER MENTIONED that life is so precious to Clark that he would not take a life. It never was brought up. We know that life is precious to him because of OTHER Superman stories...but not this one. In fact, he was raised with the lesson to LET PEOPLE DIE.

So...given that...after Superman had already defeated one Kryptonian who was never seen again in the film after being in an explosion (so it is reasonable to assume that he died)...we SHOULD assume that his grief was a selfish grief. That was the storyline of the film!!! The film was about a man obsessed with finding out about his homeland...and he destroyed it. The film was NOT about a man who had pure morals and refused to kill, yet he as forced to. That never came up at all in THIS version of Superman. The only way to take that away from this is to place OTHER versions of Superman into this film.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:39 PM   #215
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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"Superman doesn't kill because of his greatest super power...a power NOT given to him by chance of his Kryptonian birth. He has super-morals, that he developed by being raised by Ma and Pa Kent. As a baby, he crash landed into the best possible place...a place where the people were so pure, so good...that they raised a man who was everything that humanity aspires to be. Clark Kent is the Man of Tomorrow...and he occasionally puts on a costume. It is his goodness that inspires us, not his fists."

Morals for the most part change and adapt as far as human beings are concerned. Humans don't remain stagnant they evolve and change unless there is an absolute standard that guides and governs everything and provides an example of what right conduct is. Yes at the core of the Kents are strong morals but not everyone sees things as set in stone and unchangeable.

I don't know if Clark was raised by the Kents with Christian values but even within the Christian faith there is justification for killing. What is forbidden is down right premeditated murder. It seems to be implied that Jonathan Kent is out of character but what if you were raising someone like Clark with his unique abilities and you know the fear that people have about others being different. Would you not be paranoid somewhat trying to protect your child?
The Kents are better than you or I. Without that, Superman really isnt very special at all.

My assumption is that they likely raised him as a Christian Conservative. It is a family that is stuck on the view of the 1950's America...and that was the era when the Christian neo-Conservative movement rose to prominence.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:40 PM   #216
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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You've accidentally pointed out the very worst offense of this movie.

Superman doesn't kill because of his greatest super power...a power NOT given to him by chance of his Kryptonian birth. He has super-morals, that he developed by being raised by Ma and Pa Kent. As a baby, he crash landed into the best possible place...a place where the people were so pure, so good...that they raised a man who was everything that humanity aspires to be. Clark Kent is the Man of Tomorrow...and he occasionally puts on a costume. It is his goodness that inspires us, not his fists.

Man of Steel stripped the Kents of their goodness. They turned Pa into a man who spent Clark's entire childhood teaching him that maybe you should stand around and do nothing while people die. Maybe you should stand there and watch as the people you love are needlessly wiped out. This is a TOTAL injustice to the Kents.

Instead, Man of Steel gave us Kal, son of Jor-el. He used his Kryptonian powers to punch and break his way to victory. He killed TWO Kryptonians, and had no reaction at all after killing the first...so killing is no big deal to him...UNLESS it means that he will be unable to get information he wants because of it. His sadness over killing his SECOND Krytptonian of the day comes with the realization that his desire to learn more about his birth home could not be realized. It wasn't the killing that bothered him...it was the sense of being the last of his kind. There is no reason to believe that he is above killing again.

Man of Steel is an origin story...but it is not Superman's origin. Superman is Clark Kent, son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. He happens to be an alien from Krypton, but that isn't what makes him great or worthy of our respect.
I like Kelras version better. Yours is filled with a lot of opinion and some obvious bias against the movie as a whole.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:41 PM   #217
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Because he didn't. I am pretty sure he was the guy that picked Faora up after the missile hit her and took her into the Kryptonian ship to retreat.
I never saw him again, and you are the first person I've seen to suggest that he lived. Maybe he did.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:42 PM   #218
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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The Kents are better than you or I. Without that, Superman really isnt very special at all.

My assumption is that they likely raised him as a Christian Conservative. It is a family that is stuck on the view of the 1950's America...and that was the era when the Christian neo-Conservative movement rose to prominence.
ick. thank god they avoided that.

Making Superman a super Christian conservative is a perfect way to alienate at least one audience member.

This guy. *points to self*

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:42 PM   #219
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I like Kelras version better. Yours is filled with a lot of opinion and some obvious bias against the movie as a whole.
Yes, bias towards SUPERMAN...the guy I've been reading about my entire life. That's great that you prefer some other character...but I'm not sure why Superman has to be destroyed ust so you can have your new character that you like.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:44 PM   #220
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I never saw him again, and you are the first person I've seen to suggest that he lived. Maybe he did.
If we are talking about the same guy, I am pretty sure he did. Superman punched him into the train, causing an explosion. But moments later the front of the train was thrown at Superman knocking him into the sears. Faora's helmet was destroyed by the missile, and Tor-An I believe was the one to pick her up and place her into the Kryptonian ship that landed.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:44 PM   #221
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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ick. thank god they avoided that.

Making Superman a Christian conservative is a perfect way to alienate at least one audience member.

This guy. *points to self*
It never really comes up...he's hardly a preacher. I'm just suggesting that it is LIKELY, given the circumstances of his upbringing. It appears that you simply don't like Superman. I do.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:45 PM   #222
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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If we are talking about the same guy, I am pretty sure he did. Superman punched him into the train, causing an explosion. But moments later the front of the train was thrown at Superman knocking him into the sears. Faora's helmet was destroyed by the missile, and Tor-An I believe was the one to pick her up and place her into the Kryptonian ship that landed.
There you go then. Gotcha.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:51 PM   #223
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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It never really comes up...he's hardly a preacher. I'm just suggesting that it is LIKELY, given the circumstances of his upbringing. It appears that you simply don't like Superman. I do.
He's definitely never been very high on my list at all. Probably because he is such a unquestioning patriot, christian, conservative and son. No nation, god, parent or political party is so worthy of anyone's unfaltering loyalty. If you don't question your government or your beliefs you are quite frankly not worthy of either my respect or admiration.

This version depicts him as flawed, determined, introspective and conflicted. Finally a Superman I can relate to. And all without the Kryptonite cop-out plot device. They managed to make a viable threat for him without the use of some stupid rock! Go figure.

Will most assuredly see again.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:51 PM   #224
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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IMHO, I'm not bothered he made that decision, just that he was forced to it. Consider MOS is the first reboot, it kind of starts Superman on an awkward leg. But it also HUMANIZES him, showing the pain of his actions, unlike many characters out there.
If it was up to me the person I'd like Superman to kill was the inconsiderate A-hole that posted about Zod's demise in the discussion non spoiler thread a few days before I saw the MOS. Thought I was safe in our little Sanctuary, and then BAM!!!! Indsided by a HUGE reveal. Oh we'll what's done is done and it didn't totally ruin the movie for me.

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:55 PM   #225
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Outside of Jonathan revealing to Clark about his space ship does Clark even know if there is another connection on earth to his home planet? Could he not have spent his time roaming across America doing some good with his abilities because that seems to be in his character despite the constant cautions to hide who he is. The fact that Clark questions his dad if he should have let his friends and classmates die and Jonathan was kind of "maybe?" shows that there is a struggle going on with both characters. One trying to protect his son at all costs and one knowing that letting people die when he could prevent that would be wrong. Now when he is older Clark has to make that same decision again and this time its more personal and despite wanting to help he listens to his father and he suffers the guilt for his inaction. Those two examples appear to indicate that there is a value for human life. Another is having to put down Zod or see humanity suffer at his hands. Given the situation and the threat presented, he made a choice. This was war plain and simple and he made the decision to stand on the side of humanity. We may not like it but sometimes that sort of thing must be done. I don't envy soldiers or police officers that have to make life and death decisions like that and for someone like Superman the consequences are even more grave.

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