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View Poll Results: "S" plastic shield vs broken neck.
"S" shield, cool new power designed to kill powerless enemies. 7 6.93%
Broken neck to save a family and millions of future innocent lives. 94 93.07%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-15-2013, 09:55 PM   #226
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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IMHO, I'm not bothered he made that decision, just that he was forced to it. Consider MOS is the first reboot, it kind of starts Superman on an awkward leg. But it also HUMANIZES him, showing the pain of his actions, unlike many characters out there.
If it was up to me the person I'd like Superman to kill was the inconsiderate A-hole that posted about Zod's demise in the discussion non spoiler thread a few days before I saw the MOS. J/K don't really want them killed. Maimed perhaps, but not killed. Thought I was safe in our little Sanctuary, and then BAM!!!! Blindsided by a HUGE reveal. Oh we'll what's done is done and it didn't totally ruin the movie for me.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:01 PM   #227
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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He's definitely never been very high on my list at all. Probably because he is such a unquestioning patriot, christian, conservative and son. No nation, god, parent or political party is so worthy of anyone's unfaltering loyalty. If you don't question your government or your beliefs you are quite frankly not worthy of either my respect or admiration.

This version depicts him as flawed, determined, introspective and conflicted. Finally a Superman I can relate to. And all without the Kryptonite cop-out plot device. They managed to make a viable threat for him without the use of some stupid rock! Go figure.

Will most assuredly see again.
You are not supposed to identify with Superman. People's demands to be able to identify with him and view him as "cool" are ruining the character. Boy scouts aren't cool.

I'm not defending his views. I actually personally disagree with him (I'm an atheist and question my government A LOT). But that is who he is. Clark was raised by an old farm couple in Kansas...I'm going with the odds.

Kryptonite is not his only weakness. His greatest power is also his weakness. His super-compassion gets him beat on quite a bit, and villains exploit that by putting humans in danger, knowing it will put Superman at a disadvantage at give them an opening to pound on him. This movie decided instead to quickly make Zod his physical equal...when what it SHOULD have done was show that Superman was more powerful, but Zod was a better warrior and would use humans in peril to distract Superman. I was disappointed that Zod fully developed his powers and learned to control them, because there are better ways to defeat Superman.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:04 PM   #228
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

I'm sorry, but this whole "Superman doesn't kill...period" business is stupid. In the comics, this is one thing. But in film, that just can't be. Deep down to the core, a superhero not killing a villain in the comics isn't truly because the writer believes the character is morally just. It is a plot device in order to keep villains around for a future story. Don't get it twisted. The latter is the true reason why many superheroes don't kill members of their rogues gallery.

With that said, I will reiterate. This is a film. This film showcases Superman in a world that we can view as a parallel to ours as well as tangible. In the comics, Superman is idealistic about not using lethal force against his enemies because he has powers that members of the human race lack. However, he isn't blindly devoted to or not impossibly inflexible to that rule. Superman knows that an exception will always exist.

In conclusion, comic books aren't reality. This is a film. Two completely different mediums. Many things that work in the comics don't work in film. Adaptation does not allow for a seamless transition. Across mediums, something being changed is necessary.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:06 PM   #229
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Someone mentioned that this was war and sometimes in war you have to kill...

That reminds me...Wonder Woman is also a victim of this.

While Superman and Batman do not kill, Wonder Woman will! The reason why she is so vital to the Trinity is because she is the warrior who understands that people must die in war. She views Superman as naive...and Superman gets shocked and offended when she kills a bad guy. There is even a very important scene when Wonder Woman snaps someone's neck. Clark would not do it...and her philosophy is "Your naivety is dangerous...so get behind me and I'll win the fight."

By having Superman snap Zod's neck, you rob Wonder Woman of her equal place in the Trinity.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:07 PM   #230
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

'Deep down to the core, a superhero not killing a villain in the comics isn't truly because the writer believes the character is morally just. It is a plot device in order to keep villains around for a future story.'

That may be true, but I think it's more interesting when movie characters try not to kill. Obviously he had no other choice.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:07 PM   #231
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

what i didn't understand is how some can say Superman dosen't kill but how else would it end? Zod is a Superman too so the police/amy can't do any thing to him. There is no jail on earth that can hold he, the phantom zone is gone. So if Superman flys away with Zod and continue fighting than what? Zod will still kill because thats Superman's only weakness in the movie so far. So he HAD to do it to save everyone.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:13 PM   #232
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

This will haunt Superman for the rest of his life. He's going to question like we are if he made the right choice. He's never going to kill again. He will try to find another way like the comic Superman does. If Wonder Woman killed the man Heretic pointed out in this continuity and said that to Clark. He would respond, "I'm not naive. I just know the consequences." Superman will be shock and offended that she killed him without a second thought and Diana will know that people have to die in war no matter the consequences. Her place in the Trinity will be entacted.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:15 PM   #233
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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This will haunt Superman for the rest of his life. He's going to question like we are if he made the right choice. He's never going to kill again. He will try to find another way like the comic Superman does. If Wonder Woman killed the man Heretic pointed out in this continuity and said that to Clark. He would respond, "I'm not naive. I just know the consequences." Superman will be shock and offended that she killed him without a second thought and Diana will know that people have to die in war no matter the consequences. Her place in the Trinity will be entacted.
Wonder Woman would snap someone's neck...look at Superman...and he would say "Yeah, I would have done the same thing...already have, in fact."

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:16 PM   #234
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

No it will not haunt him. At least I hope not. He did the right thing let us move on.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:20 PM   #235
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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This will haunt Superman for the rest of his life. He's going to question like we are if he made the right choice. He's never going to kill again. He will try to find another way like the comic Superman does. If Wonder Woman killed the man Heretic pointed out in this continuity and said that to Clark. He would respond, "I'm not naive. I just know the consequences." Superman will be shock and offended that she killed him without a second thought and Diana will know that people have to die in war no matter the consequences. Her place in the Trinity will be entacted.
I want it to "semi" haunt him. I don't want the upcoming film to be about his guilt, but if the topic ever gets brought up, I want it to be addressed. "But you killed Zod?" "I had no choice. I do now" or something like that.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:21 PM   #236
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

I want him to say I had no choice and I will do it again.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:22 PM   #237
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

By the way...not that anyone has pressured me on this...but I often go to the movies with someone close to me who has a bit of a mental impairment, so I have to explain things to them as they happen (we sit clear of other people to not disturb others). Because of this, some brief details do slip past me. I don't apologize for this...but do appreciate when someone can point out that I missed something. If I missed that Zod's henchman survived...then I stand corrected.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:29 PM   #238
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Wonder Woman would snap someone's neck...look at Superman...and he would say "Yeah, I would have done the same thing...already have, in fact."
No he wouldn't. At least not in the scenario you described no. When she killed Lord she didn't give it a second thought. He would have. He did and he regretted the moment he did it. If Wonder Woman was emotional about her snapping the guy's neck then yes he would say that but that's not how she felt when she killed Lord.


I meant it would haunt Superman like not stopping Uncle Ben's killer haunts Spider-Man in Rami's trilogy.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:31 PM   #239
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Is the poster trolling us about the plastic wrap sheild?

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:34 PM   #240
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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You are not supposed to identify with Superman. People's demands to be able to identify with him and view him as "cool" are ruining the character. Boy scouts aren't cool.

I'm not defending his views. I actually personally disagree with him (I'm an atheist and question my government A LOT). But that is who he is. Clark was raised by an old farm couple in Kansas...I'm going with the odds.

Kryptonite is not his only weakness. His greatest power is also his weakness. His super-compassion gets him beat on quite a bit, and villains exploit that by putting humans in danger, knowing it will put Superman at a disadvantage at give them an opening to pound on him. This movie decided instead to quickly make Zod his physical equal...when what it SHOULD have done was show that Superman was more powerful, but Zod was a better warrior and would use humans in peril to distract Superman. I was disappointed that Zod fully developed his powers and learned to control them, because there are better ways to defeat Superman.
What this basically says to me is that I'm not supposed to like Superman.

Which could very well be true. Perhaps he's not there for me to like. He does his thing, despite no one being able to relate to him. Despite having an unintelligent and delusional outlook on politics and religion. Fine. But doesn't that make Superman Returns his best endeavor yet. He was an unlikable goober and completely immemorable in every way.?

But Superman doesn't care if you remember him. He will continue on despite the world disregarding his existence.

"It's a bird."
"It's a plane."
"No, its... who's that guy again?"
"Oh don't they call him Superguy or something?"
"I don't know, anyway what were you saying about Lady Gaga?"

But Snyder and Cavill have actually made a Superman I like. Maybe, in that, they failed. But I'm looking forward to the sequel. So they did something right.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:35 PM   #241
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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No he wouldn't. At least not in the scenario you described no. When she killed Lord she didn't give it a second thought. He would have. He did and he regretted the moment he did it. If Wonder Woman was emotional about her snapping the guy's neck then yes he would say that but that's not how she felt when she killed Lord.


I meant it would haunt Superman like not stopping Uncle Ben's killer haunts Spider-Man in Rami's trilogy.
We only know that he screams out in emotional pain after he snaps Zod's neck. We do not know why. I would feel quite different about this had the movie built up a "never kill" policy that he was forced to violate, or even something simple like the exchange with Lois from Alan Moore's Whatever Happened to the man of Tomorrow story. But we didn't get that...they had to cut the emotional scene short so Superman could crack jokes.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:41 PM   #242
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Before the film if you'd asked me, should Superman kill, my answer would have been definitively no.

However I had no problem whatsoever with the fact that he actually killed Zod in the film, simply because of the way it was handled. Superman pleaded & pleaded with Zod when he was trying to kill those people & was struggling to contain him, then after he'd broke his neck he was clearly devastated that he had to kill someone.

It wasn't without problems though, I did have a problem that such a powerful scene in the film, was immediately followed by a humour sort of scene involving that drone destruction & then the Metropolis Clark showing himself.

Directly after that scene, there should have been another that involved Lois or his mother.. or even both comforting & reassuring him that Zod had left him with no choice. Basically what I'm saying is, I'd have liked a few scenes that were kinda dedicated to him 'getting over it.'

Don't forget in Superman II, Reeve's Superman in my opinion killed Zod in that film as well.. and if he didn't, then someone will need to explain to me where Zod went after he fell into that icy pit. Then there's Batman in Batman Begins who essentially killed Ra's.. neither of which I have a problem with either because of how they were both handled.

Presuming the film gets a sequel & I assume it will given audiences seem to have responded to it well & I feel it's gonna break $500m comfortably, I'd like to see more character development with perhaps Clark having trouble sleeping & getting flashbacks of him killing Zod.. I'd also like to see Lex as one of the villians in the next film & use the fact that Superman killed Zod as part of his motivation & hatred for him.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:41 PM   #243
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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By the way...not that anyone has pressured me on this...but I often go to the movies with someone close to me who has a bit of a mental impairment, so I have to explain things to them as they happen (we sit clear of other people to not disturb others). Because of this, some brief details do slip past me. I don't apologize for this...but do appreciate when someone can point out that I missed something. If I missed that Zod's henchman survived...then I stand corrected.
I apologize if my comments came across as an attack, was not my intention at all. I was also just making sure I did not miss something since I did not get a sense of Superman killing until the Zod scene.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:42 PM   #244
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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What this basically says to me is that I'm not supposed to like Superman.

Which could very well be true. Perhaps he's not there for me to like. He does his thing, despite no one being able to relate to him. Despite having an unintelligent and delusional outlook on politics and religion. Fine. But doesn't that make Superman Returns his best endeavor yet. He was an unlikable goober and completely immemorable in every way.?

But Superman doesn't care if you remember him. He will continue on despite the world disregarding his existence.

"It's a bird."
"It's a plane."
"No, its... who's that guy again?"
"Oh don't they call him Superguy or something?"
"I don't know, anyway what were you saying about Lady Gaga?"

But Snyder and Cavill have actually made a Superman I like. Maybe, in that, they failed. But I'm looking forward to the sequel. So they did something right.
Superman is the Man of Tomorrow...not the Man of Today. He is supposed to embody the things that we WISH we could be...he has no ego...he would die to save others who probably don't deserve it. The movie paid some cheap lip service to this...quoting from the comic directly...about how people will stumble behind him, but will be inspired by him and someday join him. For now, you aren't really supposed to like him or identify with him...you are to stand in awe of him.

Batman is the guy that you wish you could be as a teenager...Superman is more the guy you want your daughter to marry.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:47 PM   #245
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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I apologize if my comments came across as an attack, was not my intention at all. I was also just making sure I did not miss something since I did not get a sense of Superman killing until the Zod scene.
Not at all...just felt the need to clarify that my view of a movie is not always 100% as I will listen to questions and answer them, while potentially missing other details. Again, we make sure to sit in the area where people don't like to sit, so we aren't bothering others.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:53 PM   #246
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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We only know that he screams out in emotional pain after he snaps Zod's neck. We do not know why. I would feel quite different about this had the movie built up a "never kill" policy that he was forced to violate, or even something simple like the exchange with Lois from Alan Moore's Whatever Happened to the man of Tomorrow story. But we didn't get that...they had to cut the emotional scene short so Superman could crack jokes.
Maybe it's just me, but I thought Superman clearly screamed because he was forced to kill Zod. It was so straightforward. Clark's hesitation to fight the bully. Clark hesitating to fight the man at the bar. Zod saying he will stop at nothing to kill every human on the planet. The extra emphasis on a family about to be slaughtered by Zod's heat vision. Superman's hesitation as Zod's heat vision got closer and closer to the victims. Like I said, it was straightforward.

Given the context of all of that, Superman screaming because he killed the last remaining Kryptonian is reaching.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:57 PM   #247
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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Superman is the Man of Tomorrow...not the Man of Today. He is supposed to embody the things that we WISH we could be...he has no ego...he would die to save others who probably don't deserve it. The movie paid some cheap lip service to this...quoting from the comic directly...about how people will stumble behind him, but will be inspired by him and someday join him. For now, you aren't really supposed to like him or identify with him...you are to stand in awe of him.

Batman is the guy that you wish you could be as a teenager...Superman is more the guy you want your daughter to marry.
That's the thing though Jor-El said mankind will join him in the sun not that they are. You don't become an ideal to strive for overnight.

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Old 06-15-2013, 10:57 PM   #248
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

Heretic... dude, just move on to another topic. This has been explained to you over and over again by so many people for days now. You don't like the scene. We get it. But don't worry, there's a list being made of concerns and complaints by butthurt fans, and yours is one of them. Goyer and/or Snyder will address what actually happened in that scene and what Superman was thinking. Of course, if you don't believe them, the people that actually brought it into existence, then I guess you'll just have to go back to some alternate reality of your imagination where Superman never killed anyone ever. That's fine, but your attempt to convince other people to join you there in Superrobotland is getting tiresome.

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Old 06-15-2013, 11:00 PM   #249
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Default Re: How Superman Resolved the Issue of Zod *MEGA SPOILER*

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That's the thing though Jor-El said mankind will join him in the sun not that they are. You don't become an ideal to strive for overnight.
Correct...you become an ideal from spending 33 years being molded by the Kents.

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Old 06-15-2013, 11:03 PM   #250
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Heretic... dude, just move on to another topic. This has been explained to you over and over again by so many people for days now. You don't like the scene. We get it. But don't worry, there's a list being made of concerns and complaints by butthurt fans, and yours is one of them. Goyer and/or Snyder will address what actually happened in that scene and what Superman was thinking. Of course, if you don't believe them, the people that actually brought it into existence, then I guess you'll just have to go back to some alternate reality of your imagination where Superman never killed anyone ever. That's fine, but your attempt to convince other people to join you there in Superrobotland is getting tiresome.
It's been explained to me over and over...by people who disregard the actual plot of the film and use sources OUTSIDE THE FILM to support their stance.

Within the film, there is ZERO reason to believe that Clark would not kill again.

And believe me...it DOES get tiring seeing people who don't like Superman explain why Superman would kill and why him killing is what really makes him Superman.

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