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Old 06-18-2013, 08:12 PM   #176
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

I still love John Byrne's MOS mini.

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Old 09-15-2013, 11:19 PM   #177
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Here is a list of things filmmakers found important enough about JB's Superman to include in the movie:

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/06/21...rnes-superman/

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Old 05-17-2014, 10:57 AM   #178
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

For me, John Byrne's Man of Steel is the definitive Superman.

That said...

The idea that Clark is the 'real person' and Superman is the disguise is literally and visually wrong.

Clark Kent removes his glasses (which are a disguise, he doesn't need them) and his suit, and underneath, he is Superman.

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Old 05-28-2014, 11:36 PM   #179
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Radiation View Post
For me, John Byrne's Man of Steel is the definitive Superman.

That said...

The idea that Clark is the 'real person' and Superman is the disguise is literally and visually wrong.

Clark Kent removes his glasses (which are a disguise, he doesn't need them) and his suit, and underneath, he is Superman.
Nope. John Byrne's The Man of Steel was returning to the Golden Age roots. The character was Clark Kent as the "real person" since he was a baby, not as a disguise, he was not the Silver Age/Bronze Age Superbaby.

Friedrich Thorben: "But you changed the classic formula of Superman being the real person and Clark Kent being a disguise. That's a pretty big change."

John Byrne: "Only if you assume his life began the day he put on the costume."
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/f...725&PN=1&TPN=3

Clark Kent was the "real" identity in the sense that he had been Clark Kent since he was a baby and throughout the years as his powers were gradually developing (which was also right out of the early Golden Age version). Jerry Siegel wrote, "As the youth, named Clark Kent, grew older, he found that his amazing powers multiplied with the years..."



When he decided to take a public crime fighting role, Clark invented the identity of the costumed superhero, Superman, with an "S" on his chest, etc.

Note that Superman creator Jerry Siegel wrote in 1939, "Changing into his Superman costume, Clark races off into the desert."


And at the same time Clark also invented a new Clark Kent secret identity, the glasses wearing, posture altering persona as a disguise to hide the fact that he is also Superman, and he gets a job as a roaming investigative reporter so he can be where he is needed.


The Bronze Age comics Clark was a TV anchorman. Byrne returned Clark to being a roaming investigative reporter.

From 1939 written by Jerry Siegel, "Clark Kent thinks sadly of the misery and injustice of the world" as we see him without any glasses disguise on or suit or costume, and he is Clark Kent (illustrated by co-creator Joe Shuster):

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Old 05-29-2014, 04:35 AM   #180
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

For me the two things Byrne's got right are the Jonathan and Martha Kent still being alive when Clark's an aduit. Also making Kal-El / Clark Kent / Superman being the sole survivor of Krypton again.

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Old 05-29-2014, 11:18 AM   #181
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

I like that Byrne removed a lot of the camp in his modernization. A teenaged Superman (Superboy) was possibly the worst idea DC ever had. Mort Weisenger should have never ever been allowed near Superman. The moment they took Superman away from the pulp inspired universe with gangsters and krieg lights and cops with tommy guns etc. and gave him super pets and other kryptonians and hahaha gags, they lost something. Byrne restored a little of the serious in his reboot!

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Old 06-17-2014, 07:40 AM   #182
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

I think Byrne's Superman looked a lot like a young Clint Walker.


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Old 06-17-2014, 03:29 PM   #183
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I think Byrne's Superman looked a lot like a young Clint Walker.


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Old 06-18-2014, 07:50 PM   #184
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Clint Walker is a genetic miracle, I doubt there is anyone who will ever look as much like a superhero ever again.

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Old 06-23-2014, 06:27 AM   #185
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Mark Waid can get stuffed, I read Birthright....yawn. Who died and made him
the ultimate authority on Superman. Hell Grant Morrison did more for Supes, by
telling the tale of his glorious ending in All-star Superman.

Sure Waid gave us some choice lines that showed up in MOS, but as a previous poster mentioned Byrne's influence in MOS can't be downplayed:

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/06/21...rnes-superman/

Possibly even the name of the film. I loved the new 52 reboot in action comics, and also Geoff Johns' Secret Origin, I mean, the Superman origin story is going to be retold and reimagined over and over again, but Byrne brought the character back from the brink and made him fun and relevant again.

Personally, Byrne's is my favourite. I've always been a fan of Byrne's artwork and his narrative style. Sure, not everything he touches turns to gold, but he's certainly produced some of the greatest comic book storylines ever
(Days of Future Past anyone ? )
Byrne's runs on Fantastic Four, Superman, West Coast Avengers and of course X-Men and the best and most tragic tale of the downfall of a superhero, the Dark Phoenix saga - for its time groundbreaking. The biggest mistake Marvel ever made was bringing back Jean Grey.

(very biased towards Byrne, as I'm Canadian, go Alpha Flight !)

So I'm definitely on team Byrne. Sure, people have done great things since then, but Mark Waid should shut up and accept that at least some of his success with Superman is built on foundations laid by Byrne.

Well, that's the way I see it anyway.

Peace out Superfans.


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Old 06-23-2014, 05:41 PM   #186
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Default Re: What was Mark Waid's issues with the 1986 retelling?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Mark Waid can get stuffed, I read Birthright....yawn. Who died and made him
the ultimate authority on Superman. Hell Grant Morrison did more for Supes, by
telling the tale of his glorious ending in All-star Superman.

Sure Waid gave us some choice lines that showed up in MOS, but as a previous poster mentioned Byrne's influence in MOS can't be downplayed:

http://comicbook.com/blog/2013/06/21...rnes-superman/

Possibly even the name of the film. I loved the new 52 reboot in action comics, and also Geoff Johns' Secret Origin, I mean, the Superman origin story is going to be retold and reimagined over and over again, but Byrne brought the character back from the brink and made him fun and relevant again.

Personally, Byrne's is my favourite. I've always been a fan of Byrne's artwork and his narrative style. Sure, not everything he touches turns to gold, but he's certainly produced some of the greatest comic book storylines ever
(Days of Future Past anyone ? )
Byrne's runs on Fantastic Four, Superman, West Coast Avengers and of course X-Men and the best and most tragic tale of the downfall of a superhero, the Dark Phoenix saga - for its time groundbreaking. The biggest mistake Marvel ever made was bringing back Jean Grey.

(very biased towards Byrne, as I'm Canadian, go Alpha Flight !)

So I'm definitely on team Byrne. Sure, people have done great things since then, but Mark Waid should shut up and accept that at least some of his success with Superman is built on foundations laid by Byrne.

Well, that's the way I see it anyway.

Peace out Superfans.


I agree. I generally love Waid's writing on indie superheroes but not his DC / Marvel work with the exception of Kingdom Come and The Flash. Without Byrne, a lot of what Waid did wouldn't be possible though.

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