The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Captain America > Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2013, 11:02 AM   #276
ctsketch
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,816
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

If I was Peggy and my war buddy, friend, and maybe a bit more didn't visit me after 70 years being presumed dead I'd be like "Well f*** him too!"

ctsketch is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:11 AM   #277
Crimson King
Superhero Novelista
 
Crimson King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,918
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Ever hear of some old midlife-crisis guy or girl trying to look up their high school sweetheart to see if there's still a spark there after 20-30 years? Happens a lot. I've seen it personally, on more than one occasion, to my sister and a cousin as well. Not a pretty sight, especially since that "high school sweetheart" is usually happily married with kids, a career, and the whole nine yards. There's nothing even remotely romantic about those "reunions" --- just stalkerific and pathetic awkwardness that often winds up with the police and restraining orders getting involved. Now imagine that same scenario, with 70 years separating them....and only *one* of the "partners" aging commensurately. That's what you're talking about here.
I think the bolded part of that is where you start to miss the point of the Cap/Peggy reunion. He's not going there to see if there's still a spark. Like Suzanne said, it would be more weird if he DIDN'T go see her, considering their history. And the argument that he'd only be making her feel guilty doesn't hold water. If she feels guilty for some reason, isn't it better to go talk to her face-to-face and relieve her of her guilt? To let her die thinking she did something wrong is way more cruel and sadistic than what you're making Steve's visit out to be.

__________________
kingwrites.com // @kingmatte
Crimson King is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:21 AM   #278
destronomics
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 12
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

How is Steve visiting someone who was important to him "sappy melodrama" and a man in a red white and blue skin tight outfit who represents America fighting his old sidekick who has a red star on his cyborg arm NOT melodrama?

destronomics is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:21 AM   #279
Suzanne78
I AM GROOT!
 
Suzanne78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,392
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson King View Post
I think the bolded part of that is where you start to miss the point of the Cap/Peggy reunion. He's not going there to see if there's still a spark. Like Suzanne said, it would be more weird if he DIDN'T go see her, considering their history. And the argument that he'd only be making her feel guilty doesn't hold water. If she feels guilty for some reason, isn't it better to go talk to her face-to-face and relieve her of her guilt? To let her die thinking she did something wrong is way more cruel and sadistic than what you're making Steve's visit out to be.
Right!

Think about it; would you have the same reaction if Cap was going to visit James Falsworth, Jacques Dernier, Jim Morita, Gabe Jones, or Dum Dum?

It's not going to be rekindling some spark, or romance. It's closure for both characters. Perhaps even a way to keep Peggy through any more Cap movies, by being Cap's confidant in the modern day setting.

If, if they dance, too, I'm not talking about a romantic moment for either characters. I'm envisioning something like Cap and Peggy each keeping their promise to the other, to finally have one last dance before Peggy departs the mortal coil. It's still a way for them to have closure on what they were to each other. For Steve, the pain of losing Peggy is still acute, if that deleted scene is anything to go by. For Peggy, possibly seeing the Chitauri attack in NY opens all the old wounds for Cap and she feels guilt for leaving him in the ice so long ago, for giving up the search for his body, and for not knowing what could've been.

I'm not advocating any romance for them. Although now that I see all the commotion the possibility is causing for some, I'd say go for it Cap! Hee!

__________________
"Joss Whedon, Shane Black, Edgar Wright, James Gunn… For as much flack as people give Marvel that's a pretty freaking great group of filmmakers. Kind of feel spoiled."
--Chewy

Avatar by Kane52630
Suzanne78 is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:23 AM   #280
peterparker0077
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 1,509
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Btw, Not sure if someone already mentioned it, but Bucky was having some serious issues getting onto that car hood in the fight video. Pretty funny... wonder if that was his stunt guy or if that was sabastian. Tight pants suck some times, lol

peterparker0077 is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:23 AM   #281
destronomics
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 12
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

dude, cherokeesam, Peggy was Steve's friend first. Would you be throwing this kind of a fit if he was visiting Gabe or any of the other Howling Commandos in the retirement home? Peggy is one of Steve's only living friends in the entire world, what does it say about Steve as a FRIEND that he doesn't ****ing visit her?

destronomics is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #282
ctsketch
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,816
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterparker0077 View Post
Btw, Not sure if someone already mentioned it, but Bucky was having some serious issues getting onto that car hood in the fight video. Pretty funny... wonder if that was his stunt guy or if that was sabastian. Tight pants suck some times, lol
yes! haha


"Take 12! Action, CUT DAMMIT!"

ctsketch is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:32 AM   #283
TheVileOne
Side-Kick
 
TheVileOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: California
Posts: 35,636
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
How about visiting Old Peg in the nursing home? I think Cap would be smart enough to realize how ****ing inappropriate that is, too.

Joss realized how inappropriate it is, and he alludes to it in that deleted scene from Avengers. Cap takes a look at Peggy's SHIELD file, sees that she's still alive, sees a phone number there, realizes it would be wrong to try to contact her, and realizes he has to move on with his life, and that there's no question that Peggy moved on with hers. He quietly closes the file, and goes on.

And that's where it should end, period. This "last dance with Old Peggy" **** is maudlin as hell. And it portrays Steve Rogers as a self-absorbed S.O.B., which he most certainly is not. What does he hope to gain from this? "Closure?" Closure for what? Seeing an old lady who went on and lived a full life without him being part of it at all? What's Peggy supposed to get out of it? The opportunity to feel ****ty because she and Howard Stark clearly didn't try hard enough to find Cap's body, since he was, you know, right there in the frickin' iceberg the whole time, still very much alive? I'm sure THAT will make her feel all tingly inside.

God. I hope to hell they leave this **** on the cutting room floor. You guys think this is some kind of heartwarming romantic scene, but it's not. It's maudlin melodrama that makes Steve Rogers look like a selfish ass. Even more so because it's taken him, what, 2 years to finally balls up to do the *wrong* thing and screw up this poor old woman's last days by re-lighting a spark that died 70 years ago?

Stupid. Just stupid.
That's not what Joss Whedon said.

__________________
"This is true. This is real. This . . . Is . . . Straight Edge."

- CM Punk
TheVileOne is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:38 AM   #284
Wade Garrett
Tails again!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 165
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

It kinda makes me recall the last scene in Titanic. Where they pan across Rose's photos and you see that she went on to live a full life and do exciting things without Jack, but then in her (dream or heaven whichever) Her thoughts clearly go back to Jack.

Agent Carter will have clearly went on to live her life, just as the howling commandoes and Howard Stark. But I'm sure from time to time she thought of Steve. Obviously when they meet both of them are going to know they can't have a relationship again, that would be silly to even think that. But Peggy was always his reassurance in the 1940's that we was a hero. She was the one that pushed ( her pep talk after Erskine dies, Her rally just before he sets out to find Bucky, and then again regarding Bucky's death).. I think it would be nice to have a scene where a distraught Steve after facing the events of Winter Soldier, and seeing the obvious corruption of the modern day asks Peggy, "How do I live in this world?" She smiles, brushes his hair slightly and says " By staying who you are, not the perfect soldier, but a good man". This isn't a romantic scene, this is a bittersweet scene. It continues the tragedy that was TFA, thats what Steve's story is a tragedy, just like Banner's there is no happy ending for him. He can't just blow up his suits and have a merry christmas with the love of his life. His girl has moved on without him, his best friend has moved on without him(in a bad way), and the world itself has moved on without him. But through it all he pushes forward, as a good man.

Wade Garrett is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:38 AM   #285
Suzanne78
I AM GROOT!
 
Suzanne78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 4,392
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by destronomics View Post
dude, cherokeesam, Peggy was Steve's friend first. Would you be throwing this kind of a fit if he was visiting Gabe or any of the other Howling Commandos in the retirement home? Peggy is one of Steve's only living friends in the entire world, what does it say about Steve as a FRIEND that he doesn't ****ing visit her?
This pretty much right here!

It's a staple of the Captain America comics that he visits his old vet buddies. Peggy is his old vet buddy here. She also means a whole lot more to him, but regardless, she's someone he went through the ringer with in WWII.

Quote:
This isn't a romantic scene, this is a bittersweet scene. It continues the tragedy that was TFA, thats what Steve's story is a tragedy, just like Banner's there is no happy ending for him. He can't just blow up his suits and have a merry christmas with the love of his life. His girl has moved on without him, his best friend has moved on without him(in a bad way), and the world itself has moved on without him. But through it all he pushes forward, as a good man.
Yep, yep, yep! Perfectly put and really does emphasize the core of Steve Rogers' "a good man" and a real hero but a man out of his time and searching for a way to live in the new world.

__________________
"Joss Whedon, Shane Black, Edgar Wright, James Gunn… For as much flack as people give Marvel that's a pretty freaking great group of filmmakers. Kind of feel spoiled."
--Chewy

Avatar by Kane52630
Suzanne78 is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:42 AM   #286
Crimson King
Superhero Novelista
 
Crimson King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,918
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

For the record, this is what Joss said about the deleted scene in Avengers:
Quote:
One of the best scenes that I wrote was the beautiful and poignant scene between Steve and Peggy [Carter] that takes place in the present. And I was the one who was like, Guys, we need to lose this. It was killing the rhythm of the thing. And we did have a lot of Cap, because he really was the in for me. I really do feel a sense of loss about what’s happening in our culture, loss of the idea of community, loss of health care and welfare and all sorts of things. I was spending a lot of time having him say it, and then I cut that.

__________________
kingwrites.com // @kingmatte
Crimson King is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:43 AM   #287
peterparker0077
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 1,509
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

I hope CherokeeSam never watches Highlander

peterparker0077 is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 11:46 AM   #288
Whiskey Tango
Side-Kick
 
Whiskey Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 19,324
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson King View Post
I think the bolded part of that is where you start to miss the point of the Cap/Peggy reunion. He's not going there to see if there's still a spark. Like Suzanne said, it would be more weird if he DIDN'T go see her, considering their history. And the argument that he'd only be making her feel guilty doesn't hold water. If she feels guilty for some reason, isn't it better to go talk to her face-to-face and relieve her of her guilt? To let her die thinking she did something wrong is way more cruel and sadistic than what you're making Steve's visit out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by destronomics View Post
dude, cherokeesam, Peggy was Steve's friend first. Would you be throwing this kind of a fit if he was visiting Gabe or any of the other Howling Commandos in the retirement home? Peggy is one of Steve's only living friends in the entire world, what does it say about Steve as a FRIEND that he doesn't ****ing visit her?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Garrett View Post
It kinda makes me recall the last scene in Titanic. Where they pan across Rose's photos and you see that she went on to live a full life and do exciting things without Jack, but then in her (dream or heaven whichever) Her thoughts clearly go back to Jack.

Agent Carter will have clearly went on to live her life, just as the howling commandoes and Howard Stark. But I'm sure from time to time she thought of Steve. Obviously when they meet both of them are going to know they can't have a relationship again, that would be silly to even think that. But Peggy was always his reassurance in the 1940's that we was a hero. She was the one that pushed ( her pep talk after Erskine dies, Her rally just before he sets out to find Bucky, and then again regarding Bucky's death).. I think it would be nice to have a scene where a distraught Steve after facing the events of Winter Soldier, and seeing the obvious corruption of the modern day asks Peggy, "How do I live in this world?" She smiles, brushes his hair slightly and says " By staying who you are, not the perfect soldier, but a good man". This isn't a romantic scene, this is a bittersweet scene. It continues the tragedy that was TFA, thats what Steve's story is a tragedy, just like Banner's there is no happy ending for him. He can't just blow up his suits and have a merry christmas with the love of his life. His girl has moved on without him, his best friend has moved on without him(in a bad way), and the world itself has moved on without him. But through it all he pushes forward, as a good man.

__________________
Our life in this world...
to what shall I compare it?
It is like an echo
resounding through the mountains
and off into the empty sky.
- Ryōkan

2007-2008 SHH Pro Football Pick 'Em Champion
Whiskey Tango is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:07 PM   #289
cherokeesam
SHIELD Director Coulson
 
cherokeesam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 11,749
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by destronomics View Post
dude, cherokeesam, Peggy was Steve's friend first. Would you be throwing this kind of a fit if he was visiting Gabe or any of the other Howling Commandos in the retirement home? Peggy is one of Steve's only living friends in the entire world, what does it say about Steve as a FRIEND that he doesn't ****ing visit her?
I'd be throwing a fit if he showed up to visit Gabe or any of the other Howlers and started frickin' slow-dancing with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wade Garrett View Post
It kinda makes me recall the last scene in Titanic. Where they pan across Rose's photos and you see that she went on to live a full life and do exciting things without Jack, but then in her (dream or heaven whichever) Her thoughts clearly go back to Jack.

Agent Carter will have clearly went on to live her life, just as the howling commandoes and Howard Stark. But I'm sure from time to time she thought of Steve. Obviously when they meet both of them are going to know they can't have a relationship again, that would be silly to even think that. But Peggy was always his reassurance in the 1940's that we was a hero. She was the one that pushed ( her pep talk after Erskine dies, Her rally just before he sets out to find Bucky, and then again regarding Bucky's death).. I think it would be nice to have a scene where a distraught Steve after facing the events of Winter Soldier, and seeing the obvious corruption of the modern day asks Peggy, "How do I live in this world?" She smiles, brushes his hair slightly and says " By staying who you are, not the perfect soldier, but a good man". This isn't a romantic scene, this is a bittersweet scene. It continues the tragedy that was TFA, thats what Steve's story is a tragedy, just like Banner's there is no happy ending for him. He can't just blow up his suits and have a merry christmas with the love of his life. His girl has moved on without him, his best friend has moved on without him(in a bad way), and the world itself has moved on without him. But through it all he pushes forward, as a good man.
Now *this* makes sense. This would work. Sashaying up to the old folks' home to have that slow-dance he promised to his old gal (literally....) *doesn't* work.

And it would work if *Peggy* is the one who contacts *Steve,* not vice versa. Again, if Steve initiates the visit for his own "closure," it makes him look like a selfish d-bag. And I'm positive that's why he wouldn't have tried to contact her himself. But if Peggy calls *him,* not just for her own closure, but to, in a sense, give Steve the freedom and "permission" to cut his ties with the past, *that* works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterparker0077 View Post
I hope CherokeeSam never watches Highlander
I have.

Different story. In Highlander, that's his wife. That's "'til death do us part." That's where we see *her* age normally into an old woman, while he spends the same frame of time at her side, but unaging. Steve didn't do that, and Peggy isn't his wife.

__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS

...They move like slick cotton on oil.

---Echostation, 3/18/2014
cherokeesam is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #290
destronomics
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 12
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

a) slow dance is all theory, nothing in the photos or in any of the known information has even suggested actual fact dancing will occur

b) what are you, the town from Footloose? If she wants to dance and he wants to dance, why the **** shouldn't they?

destronomics is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #291
Crimson King
Superhero Novelista
 
Crimson King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,918
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Way to cherry pick your response, Sam

__________________
kingwrites.com // @kingmatte
Crimson King is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:16 PM   #292
Whiskey Tango
Side-Kick
 
Whiskey Tango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The South
Posts: 19,324
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

lol

Sure will be nice to get more setpics.

__________________
Our life in this world...
to what shall I compare it?
It is like an echo
resounding through the mountains
and off into the empty sky.
- Ryōkan

2007-2008 SHH Pro Football Pick 'Em Champion
Whiskey Tango is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:38 PM   #293
peterparker0077
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 1,509
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
I have.

Different story. In Highlander, that's his wife. That's "'til death do us part." That's where we see *her* age normally into an old woman, while he spends the same frame of time at her side, but unaging. Steve didn't do that, and Peggy isn't his wife.
And what about all his old friends? What about Rachel who was his adopted daughter - then possible lover - then friend- then almost mother like to him? Not mention the TV show and Duncan.... lol

peterparker0077 is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:20 PM   #294
Godzilla2000
Undisputed Kaiju Queen
 
Godzilla2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Not going to be there and going my own safe way.
Posts: 6,973
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

I'm kind of bumming because someone in another forum, think the Thor forum, let loose the I.D. of the Winter Soldier based on their comic knowledge without spoilering it first. That kind of twist I really did not want to know in advance.

__________________
- This irrational obsession will destroy everything.

- All I ask for is all that I already have.

- I bear no responsibility towards those who are the architects of their own problems. This is exactly what they've asked their willingly chosen slave drivers for...drama. So leave me out of it.
Godzilla2000 is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:26 PM   #295
ctsketch
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,816
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla2000 View Post
I'm kind of bumming because someone in another forum, think the Thor forum, let loose the I.D. of the Winter Soldier based on their comic knowledge without spoilering it first. That kind of twist I really did not want to know in advance.
There is probably literally not a single thread on this CA:TWS forum you could read that did NOT mention that... if you don't want to be spoiled, you're in the wrong place

ctsketch is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:55 PM   #296
Silvermoth
Avenger
 
Silvermoth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 6,521
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Yeah, that information is in the public sphere now. It's not a secret anymore unless you want to completely avoid the Internet

Silvermoth is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:17 PM   #297
Webfoot Hero
Side-Kick
 
Webfoot Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,841
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvermoth View Post
Yeah, that information is in the public sphere now. It's not a secret anymore unless you want to completely avoid the Internet
It's been out there for almost a decade so it really shouldn't come off as any surprise.

Webfoot Hero is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:48 PM   #298
Hyde
Ooga-Chaka
 
Hyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South West, UK
Posts: 3,482
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

People didn't know Winter Soldier was Bucky?

__________________
Twitter: @Jasper_CH

I still believe in heroes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
"I tell ya, that Jennifer Lawrenshinch, I'd like to put my olive in her martini."
Hyde is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:57 PM   #299
Webfoot Hero
Side-Kick
 
Webfoot Hero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 5,841
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovieMaster View Post
People didn't know Winter Soldier was Bucky?
Apparently. A quick Google search would easily have told them that. Anyone who says they're surprised is not paying enough attention.

Webfoot Hero is offline  
Old 06-21-2013, 05:05 PM   #300
Ms. Marvel
Side-Kick
 
Ms. Marvel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: S.W.O.R.D.
Posts: 2,911
Default Re: Captain America 2: News and Speculation - Part 6

There are probably some out there that think The Winter Soldier refers to Captain A....you know, because he's a soldier who froze.

__________________
HAIL HYDRA
Ms. Marvel is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.