The Official Lex Luthor Casting Thread - Part 8

[culver3vlr22]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

I'm fine with a black James Bond. James Bond is different from these comic book characters.

What's the difference?

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by regwec

That rather misses the point. By any modern standard, society in the 1940s was racist. Most literature was produced by whites for whites, comics being no exception, and consequently most characters featured were white. DC has been left with a very unrepresentative stable of characters, and effort are being made to address this (hence Cyborg in the Justice League).

Doesn't make it okay to make Luthor black.

Is it really your belief that we should still be trying to second guess the intentions of people writing in the 40s? Because their views today are out of date. The DC universe of the 1940s just doesn't look like the world the way it is now.

No, but established, successful, and "iconic" CB characters shouldn't have their races changed.

I really don't think the tone of Halle Berry's skin was the problem with 'Catwoman'. Are you really suggesting that it was?

Nope. The problem with the Halle Berry Catwoman film was it was a bad film. Her miscasting was the cherry on top.

I direct you to the answer above, but also note that Eartha Kitt has plenty of fans, and you are being a bit presumptuous. I strongly doubt that any sensible people prefer Pfeiffer's Catwoman to Berry's because Berry is black. That would be a massive insult to both actresses.

People prefer Pfeiffer's Catwoman to Berry's because it was a better portrayal (film wise) and closer to the Catwoman of the comics. Catwoman in the comics also happens to be white. Eartha Kitt has plenty of fans, but her Catwoman is the least popular of the 3 actresses that played her on the tv show and the worst portrayal of her on tv. Julie Newmar as the best live action Catwoman to date.

No, it really isn't. Do you honestly think the appeal of Lex Luthor as an antagonist is provided by his bald head or his pink skin?

When you put it that way, no, but there is a certain image people expect with Lex Luthor that is synonymous with him when it comes to mind and "black guy" isn't it.

Michael Caine looked nothing like Alfred from the comics.

Michael Caine is an old british guy. That's what Alfred is. Works for me. (he wasn't machine gun toting at least)

Tom Hardy looked nothing like Bane from the comics.

Nolan's Bane was nothing like the Bane from the comics. he was Bane in name only. But it was a good performance and entertaining movie.

Eckhardt's Harvey Dent had blonde hair, unlike the character from the comics.

Two Face's hair color, unlike Superman and Batman's, isn't really that big a deal. He always had brown or black hair in the comics. I'd have dyed Eckhart's hair....but I'dalso have done a permawhite Joker. Two Face should be white though.

By the standards you are trying to apply, these performances were all 50% flawed. And yet, they were all fine.

That's not true at all. With the exceptions of one or two of those characters you mentioned, they are very close to their comics counterpart. It's not the same as making Superman's archnemesis, his most well known foe a black guy.

What about Samuel Jackson's Nick Fury or Daniel Craig's James Bond? Were those characters ruined by being cast against physical type?

Samuel L Jackson is based on Ultimate Fury so that gets a free pass because it was in the comics and even better, the Ultimate comics; i.e. they didn't make the regular Nick Fury white.

As I have said, I do believe that characters racial makeup should be retained where it carries an important cultural connotation (i.e. James Bond or Clark Kent). But you seem to be arguing that there is some over-arching quality derived from skin colour that trumps everything else. I can't agree with that.

I am arguing that they need to look like their comics counterpart, at least semi resemble them. And that's all I'm arguing. Black guy for Lex does not fit that bill.

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by culver3vlr22

What's the difference?

A black James Bond would be okay to me because none of the James Bond films continue off of each other. They're each like in their own little universe or "earth" if you will. That's the way I've always seen them. Craig's Bond isn't in the same "universe" as Brosnan's, etc. If they were doing a sequel to Craig's Bond picking up his Bond's storyarc, and they cast a black guy as him that would not be okay. Long as he is british. Wouldn't be my "ideal" choice, but I'd be okay with it.

The comics on the other hand are one singular thing and what the films are trying to adapt. Lex needs to be white because that is who his character is and the Superman films, although not all continuations of each other, are not setup like the Bond films are therefore it does not work that way. Bond since his inception was like that; Bond on film makes its own mythology. The movies are always based off of whatever is in the comics and very rarely does something on film become how something is in the comics. The comics have for the most part ALWAYS been superior to what's been put on film and influenced the films, not the other way around.

[TheHeatKitchen]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

Lex is also a ("mad") scientist and inventor. People seem to forget that part of him. He's like an evil Tony Stark/Bruce Wayne/Dr Doom.

Well put. So what you're saying is he's definitely NOT Kingpin? Thank you.

Lex has to be played by someone that can believably portray:
Suave
Intellectual
Arrogant
Trustworthy
Psychotic
Combative
Obsessive
Egomaniacal

Does that about sum it up?

[Majik1387]

You forgot sexy.

[Lencho01]

[KillerMcQueen]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

The comics on the other hand are one singular thing and what the films are trying to adapt. Lex needs to be white because that is who his character is and the Superman films, although not all continuations of each other, are not setup like the Bond films are therefore it does not work that way. Bond since his inception was like that; Bond on film makes its own mythology. The movies are always based off of whatever is in the comics and very rarely does something on film become how something is in the comics. The comics have for the most part ALWAYS been superior to what's been put on film and influenced the films, not the other way around.

I never understood why some people are so hellbent on not allowing movies to take ANY creative liberties. unless a CBM is a direct adaptation of a graphic novel (Watchmen, V for Vendetta, 300, etc.) I see no reason for them to be shackled to the comics when it can restrict the final results. the movies are NOT the comics, as far as the films go, we should take it as an introduction to an entirely new character, Spidey on film isn't the comicbook Spidey, Batman on film isn't the comicbook batman, same goes for any other comic book character. As for Lex being white, I don't see how that's integral to his character, I kinda thought that the characters personality was what made him what he is. race doesn't come into it, if comicbook Lex was suddenly black that'd raise some logic gaps, but this isn't the comics, it's an entirely different medium, and an entirely different version of these characters, as long as the actor has the ability to pull it off, then I don't care if they're black, white, or asian.

[The Batman]

I'm sorry, but Lex being white isn't an absolute MUST for the character. Some versions have Lex coming from relative poverty to wealth, and that can fit any type of race.

[Majik1387]

Who was Lex's design from Superman TAS based on again? Cuz he seemed a bit mulatto and not pure white.

[Mad Love]

Originally Posted by The Batman

I'm sorry, but Lex being white isn't an absolute MUST for the character. Some versions have Lex coming from relative poverty to wealth, and that can fit any type of race.

It probably isn't, but it seems kind of negative to turn a villian into a minority. Lex fits into the white American Psycho business man too well.

[The Batman]

Originally Posted by Majik1387

Who was Lex's design from Superman TAS based on again? Cuz he seemed a bit mulatto and not pure white.

Terry Savalas

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen

Well put. So what you're saying is he's definitely NOT Kingpin? Thank you.

Definitely.

Lex has to be played by someone that can believably portray:
Suave
Intellectual
Arrogant
Trustworthy
Psychotic
Combative
Obsessive
Egomaniacal

Does that about sum it up?

Originally Posted by Majik1387

You forgot sexy.

Joaquin Phoenix sounds like it may work to me.

[Dr Magneto Doom]

There is one thing I can add to this subject being discussed... Thank **** Will Smith was not cast as Superman. That is all.

[Majik1387]

Originally Posted by The Batman

Terry Savalas

Thanks.

Personally, I don't care if Lex is black, I just don't think there's any black actors at the moment that can pull off Lex.

[Enriquespy]

Mel Gibson?

No.

Jeremy Renner?

No.

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by KillerMcQueen

I never understood why some people are so hellbent on not allowing movies to take ANY creative liberties.

ANY? Whoa, whoa, whoa...I NEVER said or implied that. I just don't want Luthor's race changed. I see no reason for this whatsoever. Just stick with the basics: Luthor is an evil bald white genius/scientist/inventor/millionaire. Keep that and do whatever you want with it. Goes for all of the characters. That's what you're supposed to do, tell new stories and put them in new situations. Not change what they are. Changing their races does nothing for them.

Do you want a blonde Superman?

unless a CBM is a direct adaptation of a graphic novel (Watchmen, V for Vendetta, 300, etc.) I see no reason for them to be shackled to the comics when it can restrict the final results. the movies are NOT the comics, as far as the films go, we should take it as an introduction to an entirely new character, Spidey on film isn't the comicbook Spidey, Batman on film isn't the comicbook batman, same goes for any other comic book character. As for Lex being white, I don't see how that's integral to his character, I kinda thought that the characters personality was what made him what he is. race doesn't come into it, if comicbook Lex was suddenly black that'd raise some logic gaps, but this isn't the comics, it's an entirely different medium, and an entirely different version of these characters, as long as the actor has the ability to pull it off, then I don't care if they're black, white, or asian.

It's based off a comic book and Lex Luthor is one of the best known villains of all time.

I do care because in this day and age we can get people who are damn near, if not perfect for the part. I don't want to see an asian Joker or Luthor because the Joker and Luthor are not asian. It's really simple. How does casting him how he looks in the comics restrict the final result? If anything, it enhances it, and what you're suggesting diminishes it. Find a guy who can act and looks the part. It's not hard. If the 3 white guys you brought in don't work, bring in 3 other white guys and shave their heads. Done.

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by The Batman

Terry Savalas

Telly Savalas.

I hadn't seen the dude in a while but it's REALLY easy to see TAS Lex when you look at him in a lot of ways (except TAS Lex was a bigger dude):

[Eddie Dean]

We have a Superman without undies, a red headed Lois, a Perry White with an earring, a stone cold fox Ma Kent, etc... A black Lex isn't a big deal.

[Eddie Dean]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

Do you want a blonde Superman?

Why not? Doesn't change anything.

[Majik1387]

Originally Posted by Eddie Dean

We have a Superman without undies, a red headed Lois, a Perry White with an earring, a stone cold fox Ma Kent, etc... A black Lex isn't a big deal.

Agreed.

[KillerMcQueen]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

ANY? Whoa, whoa, whoa...I NEVER said or implied that. I just don't want Luthor's race changed. I see no reason for this whatsoever. Just stick with the basics: Luthor is an evil bald white genius/scientist/inventor/millionaire. Keep that and do whatever you want with it. Goes for all of the characters. That's what you're supposed to do, tell new stories and put them in new situations. Not change what they are. Changing their races does nothing for them.

Do you want a blonde Superman?



It's based off a comic book and Lex Luthor is one of the best known villains of all time.

I do care because in this day and age we can get people who are damn near, if not perfect for the part. I don't want to see an asian Joker or Luthor because the Joker and Luthor are not asian. It's really simple. How does casting him how he looks in the comics restrict the final result? If anything, it enhances it, and what you're suggesting diminishes it. Find a guy who can act and looks the part. It's not hard. If the 3 white guys you brought in don't work, bring in 3 more white guys and shave their heads. Done.

I still don't think Lex's race is considered an iconic aspect of the character, especially considering TAS Luthor could very easily come off as somewhat racially ambiguous (and considering he could very well be the most iconic Lex as for as the GA goes). I don't think they should change race for the sake of changing race, but when I called it restricting I meant that it shouldn't prevent them from considering all their options. as for the blonde/black Superman debate, I could care less about blonde, if they managed to make it work visually I couldn't care less, if not, we have hair dye, as for black, lets just say the casting standard would raise to extraordinary levels (but hell, I can still see there being potential there), because Superman's appearance actually is iconic, the only truly iconic thing about Lex's appearance is that he's a rich bald dude. Being white isn't what makes Lex Lex. Being an ultra-rich brilliant egomaniacal businessman/scientist is what makes him who he is. As long as the actor manages to capture that then they can cast friggin Jackie Chan for all I care. (and no, that wasn't a casting suggestion)

[Eddie Dean]

Jackie Chan 4 Luthor

[Kevin Smith]

Originally Posted by Eddie Dean

Why not? Doesn't change anything.

Yeah, it does. Superman has dark hair. Captain America has blonde hair. Flash Gordon has blonde hair.

Superman does NOT.

Blonde haired Superman is not Superman.

[KillerMcQueen]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

Yeah, it does. Superman has dark hair. Captain America has blonde hair. Flash Gordon has blonde hair.

Superman does NOT.

Blonde haired Superman is not Superman.

You're gonna have to go deeper than that. He does have an iconic appearance, that is true, he also iconically wore red undies on his costume for nearly 75 years.

[Eddie Dean]

Originally Posted by Kevin Smith

Yeah, it does. Superman has dark hair. Captain America has blonde hair. Flash Gordon has blonde hair.

Superman does NOT.

Blonde haired Superman is not Superman.

Wolverine isn't 6' 2".

Harry Osbourne isn't a handsome, confident, James Franco type.

Uncle Ben wasn't killed because Peter Parker refused to pay for Chocolate milk.

Phil Coulson does not exist.

It's called an adaptation for a reason.