The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 3

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by CosmicCap

Hang on even before they were Avengers they had the X-universe connection they may not have been Magneto's kids but they were originally created as part of his Brotherhood. However I do agree that they deserve to be in an Avengers film as much as Hawkeye, Black Widow, Antman, etc. I really look forward to seeing their powers on screen.

Wanda & Pietro were in Magneto's Brotherhood for a hot second compared to the decades they spent with the Avengers (and in Pietro's case, the Inhumans). It's akin to a player spending a season with one team, then being traded to another and playing with them for ten years.

Originally Posted by Silvermoth

I actually like them more as magneto's children. It provides depth to everyone, not least of all Magneto

The reasons I dislike the retcon that made Wanda & Pietro Magneto's children boil down to this: It was unnecessary and it altered the dynamic between the twins and Magneto, who basically enslaved and definitely degraded them. It was unneeded because the origin featuring Miss America and The Whizzer as their biological parents gave them intriguing ties to Timely/Atlas/Marvel Comics' Golden Age heroes. Captain America and Namor fought in WWII with Bob and Madeleine Frank. The android Human Torch, whose body later became The Vision, was their comrade-in-arms as well. That was a neat call-back that would have given Wanda & Pietro firmer ties to the Marvel universe's origin, and it would have made Cap's mentorship of them more meaningful, as well.

It would be fitting if Joss Whedon harked back to the twins' original origin and made them the children of the Franks once more, using that and their parents' exposure to unknown substances and/or mystical forces as the cause of their powers, rather than mutant genes. Just move the Franks' lives forward a bit so that they could be the parents of children in their early twenties and give them ties to SHIELD, if necessary.

[SilentWarriorZ]

I wonder how they can show Mutants in Avengers without Magneto link .
The scarlet witch was also responsible for the M day , If they change the origins then This may screw up some comic sagas

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by SilentWarriorZ

I wonder how they can show Mutants in Avengers without Magneto link .
The scarlet witch was also responsible for the M day , If they change the origins then This may screw up some comic sagas

They're not going to be mutants because Marvel films can't use that term, or name Magneto as their father. M Day was BS that used Wanda as a deus ex machina for editors who wanted to kill off most of the mutants. There are no mutants in the MCU, so no need to senselessly massacre 99% of them. Leave that to Singer over at Fox. Changing the twins' origin won't affect any of Marvel's cosmic sagas because their part in those stories has nothing at all to do with their being mutants and everything to do with their role in the Avengers team.

[Norrin Parker]

Originally Posted by xeno000

Wanda & Pietro were in Magneto's Brotherhood for a hot second compared to the decades they spent with the Avengers (and in Pietro's case, the Inhumans). It's akin to a player spending a season with one team, then being traded to another and playing with them for ten years.



The reasons I dislike the retcon that made Wanda & Pietro Magneto's children boil down to this: It was unnecessary and it altered the dynamic between the twins and Magneto, who basically enslaved and definitely degraded them. It was unneeded because the origin featuring Miss America and The Whizzer as their biological parents gave them intriguing ties to Timely/Atlas/Marvel Comics' Golden Age heroes. Captain America and Namor fought in WWII with Bob and Madeleine Frank. The android Human Torch, whose body later became The Vision, was their comrade-in-arms as well. That was a neat call-back that would have given Wanda & Pietro firmer ties to the Marvel universe's origin, and it would have made Cap's mentorship of them more meaningful, as well.

It would be fitting if Joss Whedon harked back to the twins' original origin and made them the children of the Franks once more, using that and their parents' exposure to unknown substances and/or mystical forces as the cause of their powers, rather than mutant genes. Just move the Franks' lives forward a bit so that they could be the parents of children in their early twenties and give them ties to SHIELD, if necessary.

I never disputed that but I consistently hear people say the were retconned as mutants when they always were. Personally I think they should make them Inhumans in the film so they can avoid the M word.

[BoredGuy]

personally, I just hope they say,

"They have powers"
"How?"
"They were born with them"

fin.

I don't think most people need much of an explanation these days

[marcvader]

That's what I've always thought was the simplest way of doing it. It's not like FOX owns the rights to having genetic powers, it's only the term "mutant". If they absolutely need to have labels I'm sure there's countless other words that they can come up with. It's really not that complicated.

[xeno000]

Originally Posted by CosmicCap

I never disputed that but I consistently hear people say the were retconned as mutants when they always were. Personally I think they should make them Inhumans in the film so they can avoid the M word.

I've never seen anyone say they were retconned as mutants. The objections are to the X-fans who have been claiming that Wanda and Pietro "belong" in the X-universe because they're mutants and were retroactively made into Magneto's kids, which absolutely did happen. The twins were around for over 20 years before some writer came up with the daddy Magneto story.

[Matt Mortem]

Originally Posted by BoredGuy

personally, I just hope they say,

"They have powers"
"How?"
"They were born with them"

fin.

I don't think most people need much of an explanation these days

I'd completely accept that. We don't need a 15 minute expository dialogue scene for ****s and giggles.

[Ant-manic]

Originally Posted by xeno000

Wanda & Pietro were in Magneto's Brotherhood for a hot second compared to the decades they spent with the Avengers (and in Pietro's case, the Inhumans). It's akin to a player spending a season with one team, then being traded to another and playing with them for ten years.

not imo. it's more akin to a player spending 10 years on a team and then finding out that they are the son of osama bin laden. doesn't matter how great an athlete he is. people are still going to know him as bin laden's kid.

[Ant-manic]

Originally Posted by Matt Mortem

I'd completely accept that. We don't need a 15 minute expository dialogue scene for ****s and giggles.

i think you underestimate today's moviegoer. it's the information age. it's possible for even a casual consumer to know tons about popular entertainment. think of all the continuity in game of thrones or the Hobbit. we haven't yet seen a character who was born with powers but wasn't an other-dimensional being (or alien) in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. so, yeah, the audience will probably be expecting an explanation. they could tie it into extremis. they could make Pietro and Wanda citizens of another of the 9 realms. but just saying they were born with their abilities can be construed as lazy storytelling.

[sabetoonth]

Originally Posted by Ant-manic

not imo. it's more akin to a player spending 10 years on a team and then finding out that they are the son of osama bin laden. doesn't matter how great an athlete he is. people are still going to know him as bin laden's kid.

He's talking about the association with the X-Men when there really isnt much, his comparison in that is legitimate.

[Duran Man]

Originally Posted by Ant-manic

not imo. it's more akin to a player spending 10 years on a team and then finding out that they are the son of osama bin laden. doesn't matter how great an athlete he is. people are still going to know him as bin laden's kid.

That's a hilariously bad analogy.

[Wine-N-Cheese]

Originally Posted by Ant-manic

i think you underestimate today's moviegoer. it's the information age. it's possible for even a casual consumer to know tons about popular entertainment. think of all the continuity in game of thrones or the Hobbit. we haven't yet seen a character who was born with powers but wasn't an other-dimensional being (or alien) in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. so, yeah, the audience will probably be expecting an explanation. they could tie it into extremis. they could make Pietro and Wanda citizens of another of the 9 realms. but just saying they were born with their abilities can be construed as lazy storytelling.

Better lazy storytelling than bad storytelling. I really don't think it's necessary to include some convoluted backstory, just to explain how a couple of supporting characters' powers came about. If people can take shooting arrows without looking, super-soldier serums, and god-like aliens, they can take born-with-powers.

Originally Posted by xeno000

The reasons I dislike the retcon that made Wanda & Pietro Magneto's children boil down to this: It was unnecessary and it altered the dynamic between the twins and Magneto, who basically enslaved and definitely degraded them. It was unneeded because the origin featuring Miss America and The Whizzer as their biological parents gave them intriguing ties to Timely/Atlas/Marvel Comics' Golden Age heroes. Captain America and Namor fought in WWII with Bob and Madeleine Frank. The android Human Torch, whose body later became The Vision, was their comrade-in-arms as well. That was a neat call-back that would have given Wanda & Pietro firmer ties to the Marvel universe's origin, and it would have made Cap's mentorship of them more meaningful, as well.

It would be fitting if Joss Whedon harked back to the twins' original origin and made them the children of the Franks once more, using that and their parents' exposure to unknown substances and/or mystical forces as the cause of their powers, rather than mutant genes. Just move the Franks' lives forward a bit so that they could be the parents of children in their early twenties and give them ties to SHIELD, if necessary.

That sounds needlessly complicated. Anyway, I thought the Magneto retcon was much more interesting than the Whizzer retcon. Neither was particularly necessary for the character development of the twins IMO, but the former was great for Magneto's narrative and provided plenty of drama for everyone. Being the Franks' kids just didn't have the same emotional impact.

Also, Whizzer...mongoose blood.

[SpideyFan866]

Originally Posted by BoredGuy

personally, I just hope they say,

"They have powers"
"How?"
"They were born with them"

fin.

I don't think most people need much of an explanation these days

This. It's as simple as that. And really, they already created an explanation for it with Aldrich Killian's "Brain Slot" theory that humans weren't "finished" and were destined to evolve again.

Pietro and Wanda would be that next evolution.

[SilentWarriorZ]

I guess for the Twins we will get completely different origin with completely different powers in Avengers then .

[marcvader]

Why would they have different powers?

[SilentWarriorZ]

Originally Posted by marcvader

Why would they have different powers?

Well if they are tying into Extremis or any other Explanation is given for their existance then their might be possibility to have different explanation for their power source too .

[VictorShade]

^ That didn't answer the question. Fail; try again.

[SilentWarriorZ]

Originally Posted by VictorShade

^ That didn't answer the question. Fail; try again.

I mean they may get Different Origins and powers source but not as Mutants
like for example : if they may be subjected to some super soldier experiment .

Its just my thought ok .

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by SilentWarriorZ

I mean they may get Different Origins and powers source but not as Mutants
like for example : if they may be subjected to some super soldier experiment .

Its just my thought ok .

Okay, so you're not saying that they would change their actual powers, right? I think that was marcvader's original question.

[STR1]

Originally Posted by SilentWarriorZ

I guess for the Twins we will get completely different origin with completely different powers in Avengers then .

If they have diffrent powers then they wouldn't be SW and QS.

[SilentWarriorZ]

Originally Posted by spideymouse

Okay, so you're not saying that they would change their actual powers, right?

Exactly just the origin of their powers

sorry for my bad english .

[VictorShade]

The easiest way to explain their powers is to introduce them as Inhumans. Introduces them (QS-SW), into MCU, intro.'s the Inhumans to MCU, which in turn involves the Kree. Who we will prob be introduced to in the Guardians of the galaxy movie.
Big happy circles!

[spideymouse]

Originally Posted by SilentWarriorZ

Exactly just the origin of their powers

sorry for my bad english .

No problem, it's all good... Unless you were born and raised in an English-speaking country--in which case, shame on your teachers! =)

Originally Posted by VictorShade

The easiest way to explain their powers is to introduce them as Inhumans. Introduces them (QS-SW), into MCU, intro.'s the Inhumans to MCU, which in turn involves the Kree. Who we will prob be introduced to in the Guardians of the galaxy movie.
Big happy circles!

I like the High Evolutionary idea, especially since it's actually part of QS/SW's origin story in the comics and an entity known as The Other already exists in the MCU. It brings in a neat villain and it also ties to Thanos.

Making them actual Inhumans would have a huge effect on that future movie, and a pretty sharp change from their characters in the comics.

[Ant-manic]

Originally Posted by Wine-N-Cheese

Better lazy storytelling than bad storytelling. I really don't think it's necessary to include some convoluted backstory, just to explain how a couple of supporting characters' powers came about. If people can take shooting arrows without looking, super-soldier serums, and god-like aliens, they can take born-with-powers.

you're not getting me. of course they can take shooting arrows without looking. there's nothing science fiction-y about a bow and arrow. a marksman's skill doesn't need explanation unless the projectiles are defying the laws of gravity; like in Wanted.

super-soldier serum is an explanation. they spent a good chunk of the movie introducing it. why? because they couldn't just have Steve walk into a room and out with powers. they even set it up in the incredible hulk movie.

and Thor didn't just pop out of nowhere. they introduced his realm. they explained that he's a "god." that's why he can do what he does.