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Old 07-05-2013, 11:58 AM   #376
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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not necessarily. Even today we rarely get 3 or more marvel films a year and If Marvel had ALL properties back, it's just more likely that a "Marvel Knights" type studio would open to handle smaller budgeted films, and films that push the R rating. There'd Be "Marvel Studios", "Marvel Knights" and possibly a minor studio housing Marvel Animation

we could potentially get 3-4 marvel films a year, which is essentially what we are getting now.
This is absolutely correct.

The current demand for Marvel super hero movies is being met with roughly 3 to 4 a year. If Fox or Sony lost their rights, Marvel Studios wouldn't just let that annual number fall and lose out on potential profits for no reason.

Marvel Studios would fill that gap left by Fox or Sony and produce an extra movie a year, fully expecting to reap the same profits for that 3rd or 4th film that Fox or Sony were reaping.

So no, we wouldn't lose anything. There would be no difference in the annual amount of Marvel films we get every year. The only difference would lie in who was making them...and that they'd all be tied together now.

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Old 07-05-2013, 01:07 PM   #377
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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not necessarily. Even today we rarely get 3 or more marvel films a year and If Marvel had ALL properties back, it's just more likely that a "Marvel Knights" type studio would open to handle smaller budgeted films, and films that push the R rating. There'd Be "Marvel Studios", "Marvel Knights" and possibly a minor studio housing Marvel Animation

we could potentially get 3-4 marvel films a year, which is essentially what we are getting now.

2014 is just a rare "fluke" year where we are getting 4 marvel films (2 marvel studios, Spidey, and X-men) 5 if you count Big Hero Six which i think has a 2014 release date?
As announced today, we're getting at least 3 Marvel movies a year for four consecutive years from 2013 through 2016, and that's without Fox announcing its next X-Men project after DOFP. I wouldn't call that "rarely."

To your point, Marvel already has all the characters it would need to launch a Marvel Knights studio right now, with fewer top-tier characters to juggle, and they haven't done so. There is no indication whatsoever that they are venturing into making low-budget and/or R-rated movies, and comments like this and this make it seem unlikely that they will be doing so anytime soon. I disagree with your assumption that they would set up a minor studio in the event that they acquired the Spidey and X-Men rights. If anything, according to their MO would be to either expand Marvel Studios or set up some co-production/co-financing/distribution deals with other studios to keep making these movies.

Again, I agree that these properties would be handled best in Marvel Studios' hands--I just want to make the note that the current state of Marvel Studios would not be able to output as many quality films per year as we have been enjoying since 2011. They would have to drastically change in order to meet that capacity.

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Old 07-05-2013, 01:58 PM   #378
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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As announced today, we're getting at least 3 Marvel movies a year for four consecutive years from 2013 through 2016, and that's without Fox announcing its next X-Men project after DOFP. I wouldn't call that "rarely."

To your point, Marvel already has all the characters it would need to launch a Marvel Knights studio right now, with fewer top-tier characters to juggle, and they haven't done so. There is no indication whatsoever that they are venturing into making low-budget and/or R-rated movies, and comments like this and this make it seem unlikely that they will be doing so anytime soon. I disagree with your assumption that they would set up a minor studio in the event that they acquired the Spidey and X-Men rights. If anything, according to their MO would be to either expand Marvel Studios or set up some co-production/co-financing/distribution deals with other studios to keep making these movies.

Again, I agree that these properties would be handled best in Marvel Studios' hands--I just want to make the note that the current state of Marvel Studios would not be able to output as many quality films per year as we have been enjoying since 2011. They would have to drastically change in order to meet that capacity.
as announced today? what was announced today?? and where??

also... "rarely" has nothing to do with the future.. it's what the current status quo is. Also... let's be practical here 5+ Marvel films a year would easily destroy the genre all together. 3-4 at most a year is PLENTY enough. Otherwise you risk flooding the market and completely bore everyone to tears.

That's not a good strategy what so ever.



Also... yes, im quite aware marvel knights could very well happen right now and it's not. Nor is Disney/Marvel ready for R rated films just yet (and we may never get them) but there IS an impending amount of "Marvel Knights" street level heroes impending, that will not need the higher budget. So regardless of the rating of the film, it doesn't mean another smaller production studio wont eventually open. In fact it's more likely it will if they got all there properties at home.

Marvel could do 2 big movies a year, and Marvel Knights could put out 2 smaller films per year. Hell in all reality, even Captain America could fall under that banner if they wanted, because I don't really think his scale needs to be as greatly as expensive as Thor, Avengers etc... are.


I think it's quite probable we see a spin-off studio to handle more films rather than just keeping everything at one studio considering that's what most studios do when they have a mix of big and small films (Fox Searchlight anyone?). It spreads out the work much easier.

I also do not for see Marvel doing ANY co-production with other studios unless it's a way to gain rights back (like working with Sony on Spider-Man, or Fox with the X-men or FF) that's the only way that will happen. They're not going to go hit up Paramount when they could just open up a minor studio and keep everything in house.

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Old 07-05-2013, 06:26 PM   #379
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

Disney owns Marvel it's not the other way around so the chances of Marvel opening up another studio is highly unlikely. Disney has a stable of studios to handle the R- rated movies.

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Old 07-05-2013, 06:53 PM   #380
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

If I were Marvel, I'd want to be giving the Avengers characters a rest soon, and the hundreds of minor characters they have to work with are minor characters for a reason - they've never connected with fans the way the big properties have.

There are seven key Marvel properties:

Spider-man
Hulk
Fantastic Four
X-Men
Iron Man
Thor
Captain America

In a couple more years, Iron Man, Thor and Captain America should go away for a while to avoid being overexposed. If Marvel had the other big properties, they could work them in while the others are on break.

But without full control, they have to sit back and watch as Sony and Fox wring the life out of Spider-man and X-men.

We probably would get fewer overall Marvel films if Disney/Marvel controlled them all, but we'd also get a better overall plan and higher quality and moviegers could be left always wanting more instead of saying: "Another Iron Man film? They're getting a little tired, aren't they?"

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Old 07-05-2013, 07:37 PM   #381
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

Be careful what you wish for.

Right now Fox and Sony MUST keep making X-men and Spider-man movies or lose the rights. That means they are desperate to make successful Spider-man and X-men films endlessly.

If Disney had the rights they could make 5 major superhero movies every year or they could shelve some of the biggest ones like Warner Bros did with Superman for two decades.

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Old 07-05-2013, 07:45 PM   #382
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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Be careful what you wish for.

Right now Fox and Sony MUST keep making X-men and Spider-man movies or lose the rights. That means they are desperate to make successful Spider-man and X-men films endlessly.

If Disney had the rights they could make 5 major superhero movies every year or they could shelve some of the biggest ones like Warner Bros did with Superman for two decades.
I'd be okay with that. Two major films a year and one minor. The Majors could run in trilogies that keep the cast and crew together for three films in successive years. Then six or seven years off and start fresh with a new trilogy at that point.

Each Marvel release would be an event, and we wouldn't get bored (as I'm afraid I found myself toward the end of the latest Iron Man).

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Old 07-05-2013, 09:44 PM   #383
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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I agree in principle, but I also disagree to an extent... If Marvel were ever able to get Spidey and X-Men back under its roof, on top of their ongoing and upcoming franchises, we would be getting fewer Marvel movies each year, every key franchise would have less frequent sequels (and actors would age more between movies), and we would certainly be getting fewer, if any, third-tier superhero movies like Dr. Strange and Black Panther down the road. So perhaps it's a blessing in disguise that Spidey and X-Men are at Sony and Fox, who can put out movies for each those characters every two years at least, while Marvel can keep chugging along with its Avengers characters and beyond. That said, one good Spidey movie and one good X-Men movie since 2004 does not automatically a Sony and Fox believer in me make.

The FF property, however, has been a mothball machine at Fox, Trank-attachment notwithstanding. Reverting to Marvel is its best bet at being handled properly--and being handled at all.
I couldn't agree more.

Even though I really hope Fox can pull it together to deliver a good Fantastic Four movie and hopefully make a cross-over film with the X-Men, but if they can't make it to the deadline and if the reboot is just going to be as good or worse than the 00s Fantastic Four films, then I would rather see Marvel Studios make a movie for the Fantastic Four.

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:23 AM   #384
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

It's been a while since we've heard anything about this...actually nothing official has happened since they brought on Vaughn.

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Old 07-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #385
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

Maybe FOX was taken by surprise with the Michael Jordan complaints

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Old 07-06-2013, 12:55 PM   #386
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

The Jordan complaints were expected and probably used as a way to create some interest in the movie. I'm the sure the Jordan debate among fans became a large topic of conversation in every corner of the internet.

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Old 07-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #387
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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The Jordan complaints were expected and probably used as a way to create some interest in the movie
I don't think that worked according to plan if so. But I guess we will see with Comic Con coming up

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Old 07-06-2013, 01:26 PM   #388
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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It's been a while since we've heard anything about this...actually nothing official has happened since they brought on Vaughn.
Actually the last thing we heard was that production was delayed yet again

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Old 07-06-2013, 09:37 PM   #389
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

It would be great if Matthew Vaughn and Jane Goldman work on the script!

Hopefully they'll announce something for the film in Comic-Con 2013!

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Old 07-06-2013, 10:47 PM   #390
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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Actually the last thing we heard was that production was delayed yet again
Really? I missed that, when was this?

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It would be great if Matthew Vaughn and Jane Goldman work on the script!

Hopefully they'll announce something for the film in Comic-Con 2013!
....

Wrong thread.

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Old 07-07-2013, 01:33 AM   #391
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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Really? I missed that, when was this?


....

Wrong thread.
Scroll up and back a page or two. It was pretty recent

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Old 07-07-2013, 02:46 AM   #392
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

Thanks. Interesting. I wish we had a better idea of when the film has to enter production before Fox is in danger of losing the rights. They wouldn't be trying to start production so early if the deadline wasn't before 2014.

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Old 07-08-2013, 04:42 AM   #393
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

Fox can keep X-Men for all I care. To me, even in the comics, Marvel's "world of mutants" and it's "New Yorkworld of superheroes"* have never meshed well. However, if Marvel were to re-acquire the rights to Spidey (undoubtedly via means of dark magic or at the very least Disney sponsored private militia) and the Fantastic Four (unlikely, but considerably more probable) is there any doubt that they would scale up their annual output to AT LEAST 3 movies? IMO, none.

The two reasons I've consistently heard about why Marvel Studios are currently limiting themselves to 2 movies/year are (a) studio resources being stretched thin and (b) superhero fatigue.

The former isn't legitimate since Marvel Studios has allowed Disney to straight-up print money. Scaling up the studio by means of simply adding more resources (probable solution) or simply spinning off another secondary studio (less probable, but a solution none the less) is actually quite simple when you're backed a corporation that is as deep-pocketed as Disney.

The latter is a more legitimate concern, but almost completely put to rest in this hypothetical scenario, since Marvel's only big-scale "comic book movie" competition would be Fox's mediocre X-Men movies and WB's floundering attempts at putting their DC characters on film... Batman notwithstanding.


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Old 07-08-2013, 10:24 AM   #394
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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as announced today? what was announced today?? and where??

also... "rarely" has nothing to do with the future.. it's what the current status quo is.
I meant "as currently announced."

I think the current upcoming slate of announced movies is absolutely in play when talking about the frequency of movies we are getting.

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Also... yes, im quite aware marvel knights could very well happen right now and it's not. Nor is Disney/Marvel ready for R rated films just yet (and we may never get them) but there IS an impending amount of "Marvel Knights" street level heroes impending, that will not need the higher budget. So regardless of the rating of the film, it doesn't mean another smaller production studio wont eventually open. In fact it's more likely it will if they got all there properties at home.

Marvel could do 2 big movies a year, and Marvel Knights could put out 2 smaller films per year. Hell in all reality, even Captain America could fall under that banner if they wanted, because I don't really think his scale needs to be as greatly as expensive as Thor, Avengers etc... are.


I think it's quite probable we see a spin-off studio to handle more films rather than just keeping everything at one studio considering that's what most studios do when they have a mix of big and small films (Fox Searchlight anyone?). It spreads out the work much easier.

I also do not foresee Marvel doing ANY co-production with other studios unless it's a way to gain rights back (like working with Sony on Spider-Man, or Fox with the X-men or FF) that's the only way that will happen. They're not going to go hit up Paramount when they could just open up a minor studio and keep everything in house.
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The two reasons I've consistently heard about why Marvel Studios are currently limiting themselves to 2 movies/year are (a) studio resources being stretched thin and (b) superhero fatigue.

The former isn't legitimate since Marvel Studios has allowed Disney to straight-up print money. Scaling up the studio by means of simply adding more resources (probable solution) or simply spinning off another secondary studio (less probable, but a solution none the less) is actually quite simple when you're backed a corporation that is as deep-pocketed as Disney.

The latter is a more legitimate concern, but almost completely put to rest in this hypothetical scenario, since Marvel's only big-scale "comic book movie" competition would be Fox's mediocre X-Men movies and WB's floundering attempts at putting their DC characters on film... Batman notwithstanding.
You guys talk as if drastically upending the structure and organization of these studios is really easy to do. I don't think that it is. Remember that at the top of the mountain is Ike Perlmutter, whose cost-cutting ways are legendary and who has a micromanaging stranglehold on Marvel's day-to-day business. Even if you were somehow able to miraculously get Perlmutter to budge, it also requires a ton of planning and a crucial series of really smart decisions that I'm glad Marvel has hesitated to make at this point. After all, besides all the things Perlmutter and Disney have done independently to reduce the payroll at Marvel Entertainment, please recall the last big addition Marvel Studios has made to its organization.

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Fox can keep X-Men for all I care. To me, even in the comics, Marvel's "world of mutants" and it's "New Yorkworld of superheroes"* have never meshed well. However, if Marvel were to re-acquire the rights to Spidey (undoubtedly via means of dark magic or at the very least Disney sponsored private militia) and the Fantastic Four (unlikely, but considerably more probable) is there any doubt that they would scale up their annual output to AT LEAST 3 movies? IMO, none.
Let's keep that hope alive! (For FF, anyway.)

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:51 AM   #395
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

Don't forget that Marvel only just got DD back late last year. Since DD is, IMO, the lynchpin for any 'Marvel Knights' plan, its not like they've been sitting on it forever.

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Old 07-08-2013, 10:58 AM   #396
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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I meant "as currently announced."

I think the current upcoming slate of announced movies is absolutely in play when talking about the frequency of movies we are getting.



You guys talk as if drastically upending the structure and organization of these studios is really easy to do. I don't think that it is. Remember that at the top of the mountain is Ike Perlmutter, whose cost-cutting ways are legendary and who has a micromanaging stranglehold on Marvel's day-to-day business. Even if you were somehow able to miraculously get Perlmutter to budge, it also requires a ton of planning and a crucial series of really smart decisions that I'm glad Marvel has hesitated to make at this point. After all, besides all the things Perlmutter and Disney have done independently to reduce the payroll at Marvel Entertainment, please recall the last big addition Marvel Studios has made to its organization.

Let's keep that hope alive! (For FF, anyway.)
eh i think you're over-exaggerating a bit... opening a smaller studio could be as simple as expanding a few offices and labeling it a different studio. in all honesty. its not a big overhaul to the current status quo at all....

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Old 07-08-2013, 01:11 PM   #397
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

I still think a distribution deal could be worked out. Or Marvel could subsize some of the production cost if it means taking back some non-pivotal FF characters that could be used for a fledgling GotG or a potential Defenders franchise down the line. So even though the creative teams would be different and the universes are separate, you'd still have some exchange of characters essential to one story but not the other.

I still believe the most profitable FF movie, at this moment, is a period piece and a prequel to the MCU to depict Silver Age Marvel and the first superhero family. As crazy as that sounds, I don't think a contemporary piece works after Avengers. You just can't match that scale and it would be irresponsible trying to meet that scale after one already unsuccessful launch. Plus the fact that Fox is handicapped having blown Doom and Galactus, plus being unable to use key characters like Black Panther, aspects of Skrulls and Kree, and Namor. They obviously recognize these things and should be weary of launching a reboot. If we don't hear anything in comic con, I expect this reboot to be delayed indefinitely. At the very least, there needs to be an announcement in tandem with the first big marketing and teaser trailer release of DoFP. Otherwise, what else could they possibly be waiting for?

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Old 07-08-2013, 01:24 PM   #398
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I still think a distribution deal could be worked out. Or Marvel could subsize some of the production cost if it means taking back some non-pivotal FF characters that could be used for a fledgling GotG or a potential Defenders franchise down the line. So even though the creative teams would be different and the universes are separate, you'd still have some exchange of characters essential to one story but not the other.

I still believe the most profitable FF movie, at this moment, is a period piece and a prequel to the MCU to depict Silver Age Marvel and the first superhero family. As crazy as that sounds, I don't think a contemporary piece works after Avengers. You just can't match that scale and it would be irresponsible trying to meet that scale after one already unsuccessful launch. Plus the fact that Fox is handicapped having blown Doom and Galactus, plus being unable to use key characters like Black Panther, aspects of Skrulls and Kree, and Namor. They obviously recognize these things and should be weary of launching a reboot. If we don't hear anything in comic con, I expect this reboot to be delayed indefinitely. At the very least, there needs to be an announcement in tandem with the first big marketing and teaser trailer release of DoFP. Otherwise, what else could they possibly be waiting for?
only way id ever want a period piece fan4 is if they're brought back to modern times. but even then that's sorta taking away the essence of Cap. F4 needs to be able to interact with modern day characters. they're not a stand alone series like the X-men could be

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Old 07-08-2013, 01:48 PM   #399
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eh i think you're over-exaggerating a bit... opening a smaller studio could be as simple as expanding a few offices and labeling it a different studio. in all honesty. its not a big overhaul to the current status quo at all....
And I think you're underestimating a bit. You guys have spent the time sitting through the credits of these movies to watch the end credits scenes, right? Do you seriously think it's such a small and simple step to open a smaller studio and so casually double the number of movies made per year like it's business as usual?

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Old 07-08-2013, 01:52 PM   #400
spideyboy_1111
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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Originally Posted by spideymouse View Post
And I think you're underestimating a bit. You guys have spent the time sitting through the credits of these movies to watch the end credits scenes, right? Do you seriously think it's such a small and simple step to open a smaller studio and so casually double the number of movies made per year like it's business as usual?
but you also have to realize Credits are made up of several houses (majority of which are special FX) that arn't even owned by the studio. But are hired by the studio to create the film.

A few office's is all a modern day spin-off studio needs (hell ive been in a couple minor ones when i lived in LA, like Mandate Pictures (the logo is the drummer boy) it's 1 floor of a small office building in hollywood. They rent out studios, hire writers, directors, and cast actors.

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Last edited by spideyboy_1111; 07-08-2013 at 01:56 PM.
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