The Official Batman Forever Thread - Part 2

[TX85]

I've always thought that Val Kilmer was an underrated Bruce Wayne AND Batman,Keaton is my favorite Batman and had the best Bat suit on film IMO(Returns)But Kilmer is by far my favorite Bruce and #2 Batman!!

Clooney got srewed with the B&R script!

[Marx]

Kilmer was OK as Batman and Bruce Wayne. His main problem was that he followed Michael Keaton...

[TX85]

True,IF Schumacher had not put nips on the suits/made Two-Face serious/toned down Riddler/tweaked the brain wave story arc and made Gotham closer to B'89...I honestly believe Batman Forever would be one of the best Bat films so far and at least be equal to B'89&Returns(perhaps even better than Returns).

[BatSpider]

Originally Posted by OutRiddled

The panther suit looks awesome, it's like an updating of Michael Keaton's suit from Batman '89. Except it looks far more sleeker.

The nipples never bothered me, so I don't understand the nerd rage over that at all.

minus the cold nips, this is THE sickest batsuit ever put on film.

[Lead Cenobite]

I like the musculature of the 89 suit more because it doesn't seem so.. sexy. And it's mostly just the torso that's muscled, the arms and legs aren't, as far as I know. Plus the anatomy seems kind of off on the Forever suit, like the abdomen muscles are too high up.

[TX85]

^Agreed

[Proximo]

Originally Posted by Lead Cenobite

I like the musculature of the 89 suit more because it doesn't seem so.. sexy. And it's mostly just the torso that's muscled, the arms and legs aren't, as far as I know. Plus the anatomy seems kind of off on the Forever suit, like the abdomen muscles are too high up.

The abdomen muscles are just fine on the Panther suit, it's almost on the same location as the '89 suit. As far as anatomy goes on the torso, (and the entire suit, obviously) the Panther is more accurate because it includes the entire muscle group Rectus Abdominis. Because of it, it doesn't leave a huge gap down to the legs/cod like it does on the '89. Kilmer didn't have to wear his belt as high up as Keaton did.

[Bruce Malone]

I actually just re-watched it and honestly under all the cheese (and there was a lot of it) this had the potential to be quite a decent movie.

If only someone had reigned in schumacher better?

As for the suit like all things schumacher and batman it was still too over-fetishistic in it's look and that was beyond just the nipples. The multiple scenes of chase essentially rubbing his plastic pecs points and the butt shot close-ups point to that. I love how in the scene where robin presents his suit and says alfred designed it, there was a close-up to the suits nipples lol i mean alfred really?

[shauner111]

I get so angry over this movie because there's so many good scenes and elements in it but they're thrown away by some of Shumacher's visual choices or his direction for Tommy Lee Jones. TLJ was perfect in the 90s as Harvey Dent/Two-Face, and his opening scene in the movie was great, after that it became a parody. It was like Shumacher told him he had to laugh like a nutcase in every scene and emulate Nicholson's Joker, which is kind of how Carrey's Riddler came across too. Except that was still very Riddler-ish in a Jim Carrey over the top kinda way.

If they expanded on the Bruce Wayne psychological stuff, toned down Gothams design a little bit, and told Jones to play a straight villainous Two-Face. Then reigned in Jim Carrey a little bit, this movie would have been quite the Batman film.

Because seriously, Kilmer was solid (I just re-watched it last night) and O'Donnell didn't do a bad job at all. Carrey and Jones were no brainers in 1995 for those roles, they just needed proper direction. And I don't even mind the one-liners/humor because it was quite funny. Something Batman & Robin failed at.

[Kane52630]

Originally Posted by shauner111

I get so angry over this movie because there's so many good scenes and elements in it but they're thrown away by some of Shumacher's visual choices or his direction for Tommy Lee Jones. TLJ was perfect in the 90s as Harvey Dent/Two-Face, and his opening scene in the movie was great, after that it became a parody. It was like Shumacher told him he had to laugh like a nutcase in every scene and emulate Nicholson's Joker, which is kind of how Carrey's Riddler came across too. Except that was still very Riddler-ish in a Jim Carrey over the top kinda way.

If they expanded on the Bruce Wayne psychological stuff, toned down Gothams design a little bit, and told Jones to play a straight villainous Two-Face. Then reigned in Jim Carrey a little bit, this movie would have been quite the Batman film.

Because seriously, Kilmer was solid (I just re-watched it last night) and O'Donnell didn't do a bad job at all. Carrey and Jones were no brainers in 1995 for those roles, they just needed proper direction. And I don't even mind the one-liners/humor because it was quite funny. Something Batman & Robin failed at.

[Two-Face]

Originally Posted by shauner111

I get so angry over this movie because there's so many good scenes and elements in it but they're thrown away by some of Shumacher's visual choices or his direction for Tommy Lee Jones. TLJ was perfect in the 90s as Harvey Dent/Two-Face, and his opening scene in the movie was great, after that it became a parody. It was like Shumacher told him he had to laugh like a nutcase in every scene and emulate Nicholson's Joker, which is kind of how Carrey's Riddler came across too. Except that was still very Riddler-ish in a Jim Carrey over the top kinda way.

If they expanded on the Bruce Wayne psychological stuff, toned down Gothams design a little bit, and told Jones to play a straight villainous Two-Face. Then reigned in Jim Carrey a little bit, this movie would have been quite the Batman film.

Because seriously, Kilmer was solid (I just re-watched it last night) and O'Donnell didn't do a bad job at all. Carrey and Jones were no brainers in 1995 for those roles, they just needed proper direction. And I don't even mind the one-liners/humor because it was quite funny. Something Batman & Robin failed at.

Totally agree. That's how I feel about BF.

[Merlo]

Originally Posted by Marx

Kilmer was OK as Batman and Bruce Wayne. His main problem was that he followed Michael Keaton...

What do you mean by that? That he was trying to copy his version or that he had to fill in for him? After all, the plan was for Keaton to reprise the roll at first.

[Merlo]

Lately I thought about Batman Forever and have come to the conclusion that the real reason why it's on the kid side, is cause of the sound effects during certain scenes.

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

Hahah Arnold was funny but everything else is sooo horrible. I mean Freeze was too but Arnold will die an entertaining man.

[Kane52630]

Nope! everything about that movie was highly entertaining.

[Merlo]

Gotham Alley.

1. Kilmer's Batman didn't show just one emotion (he did show anger, an example would be the time he yelled at Robin after he saved his behind).

2. Batman Forever isn't the only Batman movie that took liberties, as much as I like Burton's Batman movies they did take liberties and so did Nolan's Batman movies.

One question I would like to ask people in this thread is how much of Batman Forever do you think is serious and campy? Regarding the camp factor, I strongly think that campyness can be discovered in all the Batman movies (unless your definition of camp is different from how it is described in thesaruses and dictionaries). About the nipples on Batman and Robin's suits in Batman Forever, if they seem on the gay side just cause their suits have nipples on them, then wouldn't that mean us guys are too? Just cause we have nipples on us? And to be fair it is obvious what gender Batman and Robin are attracted to in the movie. Btw, about me touching on the nipples on the suits, I only said it in response to those who imo seem to think that Batman and Robin were gayified in Batman Forever for having nipples on their suits.

Batman in BF talked about not killing, yet he caused the death of Two Face. What's up with that? He could have taken him in alive. One more thing, the butt shot of Batman, it's not bad if you take into consideration the fact that there are Batman fan girls.

[Ponyboy]

Originally Posted by Merlo

What do you mean by that? That he was trying to copy his version or that he had to fill in for him? After all, the plan was for Keaton to reprise the roll at first.

He meant that whoever followed Keaton was going to automatically pale in comparison.

[Merlo]

Originally Posted by Ponyboy

He meant that whoever followed Keaton was going to automatically pale in comparison.

Ohhhhhhh ok.

[Two-Face]

BF was great for its own way. Putting nipples in the suits hell I don't even look at those when something else is going on in the film.

I like the some of the stuff that Schumacher got it right. Not many Batfans don't talk about it.

Example 1: Bruce having dreams about his parents death and talking to Chase about it. I got to admit I like Chase a lot more than Selina or Vicki here ( shoot me down I don't care.) Bruce's relationship with Chase I liked every scene.

2: Bruce dealing with Wayne Enterprises during the day Burton didn't even show that in BR.

3: Batman fighting Two-Face's gang in the opening sequence I love that shot. batman breaking up the Edward's party much Batman been badass here. Beating the crap out of the thugs. Gets trapped in and almost burnt alive by Harvey I like how his cape is a proof to a fire I never seeing that in any media. That was pretty badass.

What i don't like is Alfred making the batsuits surely Bruce helped him sure Alfred says after Batcave is destroyed he designed the new suit but Bruce must have help.

Also, even though I don't like Two-Face been second villain here and his origins wasn't even shown greatly. only we see Bruce watching a footage of it but that's it, that was lame though.

Basicially BF is a great popcorn flick, after all it's still Batman. That's what I watch it for.

[Proximo]

I re-watched the film last week, it's still my favourite Batman film. There are more pros than cons, it holds up well and is highly entertaining through and through on so many levels.

While watching it, I couldn't stop to think about the Director's Cut that many of us would like to see. If Joel Schumacher wanna do a Director's Cut, I think Kickstarter would be a great way to fund the project and to prove to WB that there is a demand/interest for it.

[Kane52630]

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/550...an-forever-gif

[Senator Pleasury]

Originally Posted by Kane52630

This is exactly when Batman acts like a shy damsel.

[the5timechamp]

Originally Posted by Two-Face

BF was great for its own way. Putting nipples in the suits hell I don't even look at those when something else is going on in the film.

I like the some of the stuff that Schumacher got it right. Not many Batfans don't talk about it.

Example 1: Bruce having dreams about his parents death and talking to Chase about it. I got to admit I like Chase a lot more than Selina or Vicki here ( shoot me down I don't care.) Bruce's relationship with Chase I liked every scene.

2: Bruce dealing with Wayne Enterprises during the day Burton didn't even show that in BR.

3: Batman fighting Two-Face's gang in the opening sequence I love that shot. batman breaking up the Edward's party much Batman been badass here. Beating the crap out of the thugs. Gets trapped in and almost burnt alive by Harvey I like how his cape is a proof to a fire I never seeing that in any media. That was pretty badass.

What i don't like is Alfred making the batsuits surely Bruce helped him sure Alfred says after Batcave is destroyed he designed the new suit but Bruce must have help.

Also, even though I don't like Two-Face been second villain here and his origins wasn't even shown greatly. only we see Bruce watching a footage of it but that's it, that was lame though.

Basicially BF is a great popcorn flick, after all it's still Batman. That's what I watch it for.

I dont hate the movie... its just that its inconsistent and there is footage out there that could make the movie even better.

-Inconsistent in that the night scenes do not match the tone or look of the daytime scenes.
-Scenes that look cool end up looking sloppy because of small details that dont get cleaned up.
-Kidman looks beautiful and plays to the tone of the movie
-Kilmer might have stood out in an even better movie.
-a Riddler only movie would have been better would have added more weight to the Riddler threat.
-Score is great, as is the new Batman theme.

[Elevator Man]

Originally Posted by the5timechamp

-Score is great, as is the new Batman theme.

I prefer this score over the entire TDK Trilogy scores by Zimmer and co.

[GREEN =w= DAY]

nipples aside, i thought the suit in this film was awesome