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Old 07-10-2013, 10:05 PM   #826
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by nefarious_e View Post
The marvel cinematic universe makes me feel that many problems could have been prevented with some serious family therapy.
I made the mistake of googling images from prelude #2, and all I can say is

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
the panel of Odin pretty much disowning Loki made me sick. I know it's fiction, but Odin is considered a hero by Marvel fans, is he not? Here he is depicted as sadistic and twisted. Honestly, as a parent, I'm offended. Almost makes me not want to see the film. These Asgardians are a rather smug bunch, are they not? Loki deserves punishment, but Odin is shown as taking no parental responsibility for misleading and manipulating his child. And doesn't anyone take into consideration what may have happened to Loki during his year in the void? Heck, if I had Odin as my father I'd jump into a void myself. Sheesh!


Am heading to bed and will probably regret this post in the morning. But I've had a terrible day and this just hit me in a sensitive spot.


Last edited by LadyGeek; 07-11-2013 at 06:31 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:23 AM   #827
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGeek View Post
I made the mistake of googling images from prelude #2, and all I can say is

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
the panel of Odin pretty much disowning Loki made me sick. I know it's fiction, but Odin is considered a hero by Marvel fans, is he not? Here he is depicted as sadistic and twisted. Honestly, as a parent, I'm offended. Almost makes me not want to see the film. These Asgardians are a rather smug bunch, are they not? Loki deserves punishment, but Odin is shown as taking no parental responsibility for misleading and manipulating his child. And doesn't anyone take into consideration what may have happened to Loki during his year in the void? Heck, if I had Odin as my father I'd jump into a void myself. Sheesh!


Am heading to bed and will probably regret this post in the morning. But I've had a terrible day and this just hit me in a sensitive spot.
I think it's just deliberate values dissonance. Odin is not going to behave like a 21st Century dad after all and being like royalty, I'm sure some Asgardians can be very prideful.

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Old 07-11-2013, 08:50 AM   #828
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGeek View Post
I made the mistake of googling images from prelude #2, and all I can say is

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
the panel of Odin pretty much disowning Loki made me sick. I know it's fiction, but Odin is considered a hero by Marvel fans, is he not? Here he is depicted as sadistic and twisted. Honestly, as a parent, I'm offended. Almost makes me not want to see the film. These Asgardians are a rather smug bunch, are they not? Loki deserves punishment, but Odin is shown as taking no parental responsibility for misleading and manipulating his child. And doesn't anyone take into consideration what may have happened to Loki during his year in the void? Heck, if I had Odin as my father I'd jump into a void myself. Sheesh!


Am heading to bed and will probably regret this post in the morning. But I've had a terrible day and this just hit me in a sensitive spot.
Hate to say it but Odin in the myths and comics has done much much worse to Loki than disown him.

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Old 07-11-2013, 03:17 PM   #829
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

Odin wasn't any nicer to Thor, banishing him to Midgard as a mortal and leaving him to find the right path or die (sooner or later).

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Old 07-11-2013, 04:35 PM   #830
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Odin wasn't any nicer to Thor, banishing him to Midgard as a mortal and leaving him to find the right path or die (sooner or later).
True, that scene creeped me out as well. After apparently ignoring Thor's faults and almost putting him on the throne too soon for his own good, he turns full circle, bashes his kid and tosses him off the planet. I'm not thrilled with how Odin talks to his wife, either. I am totally not Odin-friendly.

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Old 07-11-2013, 04:37 PM   #831
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
Odin wasn't any nicer to Thor, banishing him to Midgard as a mortal and leaving him to find the right path or die (sooner or later).

But in the Thor prelude #2, Odin specifically states that...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Loki is only alive because of Frigga. In other words, had she not intervened, Odin would have killed his adopted son. Presumably, he would have been killed because of the war he started on Earth. Okay, fair enough. He killed a lot of people. But what about Thor in the first movie? He killed many Frost Giants did he not? He defied his father's law, marched into Jotunheim, and started swinging his hammer. Then he single-handedly caused a massive earthquake which probably killed lots of Jotuns. And what did Odin do? Banish him. Even though he committed murder. At that point, he was no better than Loki was in Avengers and yet Odin is perfectly willing to kill Loki, but not Thor. Perhaps human lives are worth more than Jotun lives and as such, killing humans warrants more of a punishment. Despite this being blatant racism, Thor should have gotten the same punishment as Loki does in Thor 2, because his childish war with Jotunheim probably would have spilled over onto Earth and caused countless human deaths. Let's not forget had it not been for Loki, a war would have broken out between Jotunheim and Asgard.


/rant over.

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Old 07-11-2013, 04:43 PM   #832
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
Odin wasn't any nicer to Thor, banishing him to Midgard as a mortal and leaving him to find the right path or die (sooner or later).
Good point. The confrontation between Loki and Odin rubs me the wrong way probably in part because of the modern perspective I look at it with.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
It's not nice to see parents abandon their children and it's very strange and not really pleasant to see a father character go for the jugular like that. He calls Loki by that name when he knows that part of what made Loki lose it in the first place was finding out he was Laufey's son. It was pretty cold, and made Frigga's words "Be strong" pretty poignant. After I read it all I could think was what a Loki (at least Loki of Avengers) thing Odin did, saying the cruelest thing he could. I am looking forward to seeing how this is addressed in the film (if it is). Despite what Odin says in this comic, I still think he will end up feeling at least partially responsible for what Loki is (whether or not he actually is or not will probably be debated forever). You wonder how much is Odin the king talking and how much is Odin the (extremely) disappointed parent.

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Old 07-11-2013, 07:28 PM   #833
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by LadyGeek View Post
True, that scene creeped me out as well. After apparently ignoring Thor's faults and almost putting him on the throne too soon for his own good, he turns full circle, bashes his kid and tosses him off the planet. I'm not thrilled with how Odin talks to his wife, either. I am totally not Odin-friendly.
Odin admits that he's been a fool when it comes to Thor and his antics. He seems to have blindly hoped that he would take things seriously when he ascended to the throne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OstrichsRevenge View Post
But in the Thor prelude #2, Odin specifically states that...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Loki is only alive because of Frigga. In other words, had she not intervened, Odin would have killed his adopted son. Presumably, he would have been killed because of the war he started on Earth. Okay, fair enough. He killed a lot of people. But what about Thor in the first movie? He killed many Frost Giants did he not? He defied his father's law, marched into Jotunheim, and started swinging his hammer. Then he single-handedly caused a massive earthquake which probably killed lots of Jotuns. And what did Odin do? Banish him. Even though he committed murder. At that point, he was no better than Loki was in Avengers and yet Odin is perfectly willing to kill Loki, but not Thor. Perhaps human lives are worth more than Jotun lives and as such, killing humans warrants more of a punishment. Despite this being blatant racism, Thor should have gotten the same punishment as Loki does in Thor 2, because his childish war with Jotunheim probably would have spilled over onto Earth and caused countless human deaths. Let's not forget had it not been for Loki, a war would have broken out between Jotunheim and Asgard.


/rant over.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
What Thor and Loki do aren't really the same thing. Thor is reacting to a small military act against Asgard, but doing so in a stupid and arrogant way. Loki is the instigator against Earth and knows exactly what he's doing, although confused feelings might have been what sent him on that path in the beginning. Not to mention that Loki was the one behind what Thor did.

That said the punishment for Thor isn't really that much different as he would have died if he didn't truly find the right path. Note that Odin's magic could judge what kind of man he was in his heart. Odin sees no redemption for Loki though, although he was seemingly willing to get over that Loki tried to kill Thor and the rest he had done in the Thor movie.


In any case I like that Odin acts a bit strangely. It would feel wrong if the All-Father thought and acted just like a modern human being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nefarious_e View Post
Good point. The confrontation between Loki and Odin rubs me the wrong way probably in part because of the modern perspective I look at it with.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
It's not nice to see parents abandon their children and it's very strange and not really pleasant to see a father character go for the jugular like that. He calls Loki by that name when he knows that part of what made Loki lose it in the first place was finding out he was Laufey's son. It was pretty cold, and made Frigga's words "Be strong" pretty poignant. After I read it all I could think was what a Loki (at least Loki of Avengers) thing Odin did, saying the cruelest thing he could. I am looking forward to seeing how this is addressed in the film (if it is). Despite what Odin says in this comic, I still think he will end up feeling at least partially responsible for what Loki is (whether or not he actually is or not will probably be debated forever). You wonder how much is Odin the king talking and how much is Odin the (extremely) disappointed parent.
It's hard to say exactly how much of the mythology that's been imbued into the comics but in the mythology there's definitely a big difference between Aesir and Giants in who and what they are, so being of one race or the other would affect what kind of person you are, and it's always been the reason why Loki is ever the trickster. That's a bit different from one of us adopting a baby.

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Old 07-11-2013, 07:45 PM   #834
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

Now I'm wondering if Odin knows about Thor going to Loki for help. Where is he when it happens? Is he even around anymore?? If nothing else, these preview panels shine a light on just how desperate things will become during the course of the movie

"You must be truly desperate to come to me for help" Indeed!

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Old 07-11-2013, 07:53 PM   #835
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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In any case I like that Odin acts a bit strangely. It would feel wrong if the All-Father thought and acted just like a modern human being.
That's just what I was thinking. Odin would not make a very good 21st century Midgard daddy because he isn't meant to be a 21st century Midgard daddy. And you've got to admit, it makes for great larger-than-life family drama.

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Old 07-12-2013, 12:10 AM   #836
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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That's just what I was thinking. Odin would not make a very good 21st century Midgard daddy because he isn't meant to be a 21st century Midgard daddy. And you've got to admit, it makes for great larger-than-life family drama.
I think drama wise Odin shunning Loki has more emotional punch than just forgiving him and sending him to an Asgardian shrink.

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Old 07-12-2013, 06:37 AM   #837
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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I think drama wise Odin shunning Loki has more emotional punch than just forgiving him and sending him to an Asgardian shrink.
Absolutely.

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Old 07-12-2013, 07:33 AM   #838
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGeek View Post
I made the mistake of googling images from prelude #2, and all I can say is

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
the panel of Odin pretty much disowning Loki made me sick. I know it's fiction, but Odin is considered a hero by Marvel fans, is he not? Here he is depicted as sadistic and twisted. Honestly, as a parent, I'm offended. Almost makes me not want to see the film. These Asgardians are a rather smug bunch, are they not? Loki deserves punishment, but Odin is shown as taking no parental responsibility for misleading and manipulating his child. And doesn't anyone take into consideration what may have happened to Loki during his year in the void? Heck, if I had Odin as my father I'd jump into a void myself. Sheesh!


Am heading to bed and will probably regret this post in the morning. But I've had a terrible day and this just hit me in a sensitive spot.
You don't want to see the movie because Odin, the all powerful all-father, and norse god, is a bad parent...just like he is in the comics?

Odin isn't a "hero" he's just Odin, and everyone has flaws. THOR is the hero... you're taking this ish way too seriously

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Old 07-12-2013, 07:34 AM   #839
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

Loki is a VILLAIN
Odin is a HARSH FATHER

just like in the comics. fangirls need to calm down

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Old 07-12-2013, 07:36 AM   #840
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by OstrichsRevenge View Post
But in the Thor prelude #2, Odin specifically states that...

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Loki is only alive because of Frigga. In other words, had she not intervened, Odin would have killed his adopted son. Presumably, he would have been killed because of the war he started on Earth. Okay, fair enough. He killed a lot of people. But what about Thor in the first movie? He killed many Frost Giants did he not? He defied his father's law, marched into Jotunheim, and started swinging his hammer. Then he single-handedly caused a massive earthquake which probably killed lots of Jotuns. And what did Odin do? Banish him. Even though he committed murder. At that point, he was no better than Loki was in Avengers and yet Odin is perfectly willing to kill Loki, but not Thor. Perhaps human lives are worth more than Jotun lives and as such, killing humans warrants more of a punishment. Despite this being blatant racism, Thor should have gotten the same punishment as Loki does in Thor 2, because his childish war with Jotunheim probably would have spilled over onto Earth and caused countless human deaths. Let's not forget had it not been for Loki, a war would have broken out between Jotunheim and Asgard.


/rant over.
Jotuns had also just attacked Asgard in defiance of a treaty..... Earthlings had not..they were innocent

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Old 07-12-2013, 08:34 AM   #841
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

I guess it's my fondness for operas but I just love the high octane drama of Odin's harshness, even going so far as to deciding to kill Loki for his crimes. It really brings out strong sympathy for Loki and Thor in general because of how ruthless Odin can be.

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:32 AM   #842
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by ctsketch View Post
Loki is a VILLAIN
Odin is a HARSH FATHER

just like in the comics. fangirls need to calm down
And some fanboys need to stop lumping fangirls all together. As difficult as it is to believe, we don't all share the same head.

Otherwise, good point.

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Old 07-12-2013, 09:47 AM   #843
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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You don't want to see the movie because Odin, the all powerful all-father, and norse god, is a bad parent...just like he is in the comics?

Odin isn't a "hero" he's just Odin, and everyone has flaws. THOR is the hero... you're taking this ish way too seriously

Um, have you ever been in a comic book forum before? Everyone takes this stuff too seriously. It's part of the fun that we get really involved in the characters.

Tone down the judging, judgy judgerson.

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Old 07-12-2013, 10:01 AM   #844
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by OstrichsRevenge View Post
Um, have you ever been in a comic book forum before? Everyone takes this stuff too seriously. It's part of the fun that we get really involved in the characters.

Tone down the judging, judgy judgerson.
yes, I have been to many comic forums and yes I am judging...


...deal with it

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Old 07-12-2013, 10:04 AM   #845
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Godzilla2000 View Post
I guess it's my fondness for operas but I just love the high octane drama of Odin's harshness, even going so far as to deciding to kill Loki for his crimes. It really brings out strong sympathy for Loki and Thor in general because of how ruthless Odin can be.
Funny you should say that! Reading those panels brought to mind words like 'Wagnerian' and 'grand'. It does have an operatic vibe.

Back to this 'Loki love' business, it's all Tom Hiddleston's fault! He seems to be such a genuinely sweet, happy, nice guy that it's easy to want to see some of that in Loki, a 'Tom with issues', if you will. But I'm happy enough with what he has accomplished; a fully realized, three dimensional villain with issues, one that I truly love - and love to hate! To be honest, Tom Hiddleston's Loki is one of the few villains that I've ever really paid attention to on screen. Most are just interchangeable, faceless obstacles for the hero to overcome.

But not my Loki!

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Old 07-12-2013, 10:55 AM   #846
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyGeek View Post
I made the mistake of googling images from prelude #2, and all I can say is

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
the panel of Odin pretty much disowning Loki made me sick. I know it's fiction, but Odin is considered a hero by Marvel fans, is he not? Here he is depicted as sadistic and twisted. Honestly, as a parent, I'm offended. Almost makes me not want to see the film. These Asgardians are a rather smug bunch, are they not? Loki deserves punishment, but Odin is shown as taking no parental responsibility for misleading and manipulating his child. And doesn't anyone take into consideration what may have happened to Loki during his year in the void? Heck, if I had Odin as my father I'd jump into a void myself. Sheesh!


Am heading to bed and will probably regret this post in the morning. But I've had a terrible day and this just hit me in a sensitive spot.
May be the fangirl in you talking

Loki committed crimes before he found out about his parentage. He is Loki. All the MCU did was give him a bit of a more relatable background. He is still Loki, and deserves his punishment. He is Loki. Not wanting to see the film because Loki's totally justifiable punishment, is not right in your eyes could certainly be missing a lot.

I mean, he tricked thor, and let frost giants into asgard during thor's crowning for fun. He already had his plan. He then found out about his parentage. He then threatened Jotenheim, brought asgard to the brink of war, almost destroyed Jotenheim and its inhabitants. Stirred up Thanos which I am sure Odin is aware about. And caused the events that ultimately lead to the destruction of the bridge, more than likely causing chaos through out the 9 realms. His punishment is totally justifiable

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Old 07-12-2013, 11:25 AM   #847
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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yes, I have been to many comic forums and yes I am judging...


...deal with it

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Old 07-12-2013, 01:34 PM   #848
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by LadyGeek View Post
I made the mistake of googling images from prelude #2, and all I can say is

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
the panel of Odin pretty much disowning Loki made me sick. I know it's fiction, but Odin is considered a hero by Marvel fans, is he not? Here he is depicted as sadistic and twisted. Honestly, as a parent, I'm offended. Almost makes me not want to see the film. These Asgardians are a rather smug bunch, are they not? Loki deserves punishment, but Odin is shown as taking no parental responsibility for misleading and manipulating his child. And doesn't anyone take into consideration what may have happened to Loki during his year in the void? Heck, if I had Odin as my father I'd jump into a void myself. Sheesh!


Am heading to bed and will probably regret this post in the morning. But I've had a terrible day and this just hit me in a sensitive spot.
Quote:
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Not all of them are the same, but it's like the boy who cried wolf, to an extend.

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Old 07-12-2013, 03:04 PM   #849
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Don't project

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Old 07-12-2013, 03:25 PM   #850
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Default Re: Tom Hiddleston: Loki Redux - Part 1

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Originally Posted by OstrichsRevenge View Post
Um, have you ever been in a comic book forum before? Everyone takes this stuff too seriously. It's part of the fun that we get really involved in the characters.

Tone down the judging, judgy judgerson.
Funny you should mention this: I have a cousin named Judgy Judgerson and he drives me crazy.

Thanks for the laugh (and the support), Ostrich!

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