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Old 07-10-2013, 06:11 PM   #426
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I remember in Batman year One, one of the first suspects Gordon had as to who Batman was, was Bruce Wayne. But Wayne staged a whole show to deceive Gordon.

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Old 07-10-2013, 06:28 PM   #427
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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I remember in Batman year One, one of the first suspects Gordon had as to who Batman was, was Bruce Wayne. But Wayne staged a whole show to deceive Gordon.
Yes, but that was before Batman became a trusted ally to him. That only happened at the end after he saved Gordon's baby.

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Old 07-10-2013, 06:34 PM   #428
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Yes, but that was before Batman became a trusted ally to him. That only happened at the end after he saved Gordon's baby.
Totally, I was just saying that regarding the possibility that Gordon would have never thought that Bruce was Batman.

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Old 07-10-2013, 06:37 PM   #429
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Oh ok. The comics have implied Gordon may already have figured out who Batman is, like the Joker, but he doesn't care.

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Old 07-11-2013, 07:36 PM   #430
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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Oh ok. The comics have implied Gordon may already have figured out who Batman is, like the Joker, but he doesn't care.
And isn't that irony for you. Gordon is supposed to be as unwavering and committed to stopping crime as Batman is and he knows who Batman is, but because they are buddies, he lets this violent obsessed vigilante get off.

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:44 PM   #431
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^lol

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Old 07-11-2013, 09:56 PM   #432
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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And isn't that irony for you. Gordon is supposed to be as unwavering and committed to stopping crime as Batman is and he knows who Batman is, but because they are buddies, he lets this violent obsessed vigilante get off.
If Gordon believed Batman was a genuine threat doing more harm than good then he would have him arrested.

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Old 07-12-2013, 07:41 AM   #433
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Old 07-13-2013, 09:38 AM   #434
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

Gordon's expression in TDKR is borderline camp when he realizes, for the first time, that his friend and trusted ally is none other than Bruce Wayne.

"huurrrrr, durrrrrrr, Bruce Wayne?!?"


It's fine and dandy that Gordon wouldn't care who he was, but to not have even the slightest clue and be puzzled by it? Ridiculous. This is the same guy, a detective and cop, who saw Bruce crash his lambo to "catch the light" (Gordon even thought he was trying to catch the van).

A subtle smile on Gordon's part would have been more appropriate when Batman flies away after telling him that. A smile like he gives him at the end of Batman Begins. But nah, "Broos Weyne??" after an insulting flashback that spells it out for the audience. Yeah, no kidding Gordon, Bruce is Batman.


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Old 07-13-2013, 11:31 AM   #435
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Gordon's expression in TDKR is borderline camp when he realizes, for the first time, that his friend and trusted ally is none other than Bruce Wayne.

"huurrrrr, durrrrrrr, Bruce Wayne?!?"


It's fine and dandy that Gordon wouldn't care who he was, but to not have even the slightest clue and be puzzled by it? Ridiculous. This is the same guy, a detective and cop, who saw Bruce crash his lambo to "catch the light" (Gordon even thought he was trying to catch the van).

A subtle smile on Gordon's part would have been more appropriate when Batman flies away after telling him that. A smile like he gives him at the end of Batman Begins. But nah, "Broos Weyne??" after an insulting flashback that spells it out for the audience. Yeah, no kidding Gordon, Bruce is Batman.
Yeah that was spelling it out. That moment was a little off.

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Old 07-13-2013, 01:38 PM   #436
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

It was also implied and even plain out said in the letter columns that Gordon does not know who Batman is.

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Old 07-13-2013, 04:13 PM   #437
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An insulting flashback? Without that flashback I wouldn't have gotten as emotional in that moment. Ive seen Begins a hundred times by the time Rises came out, and I felt that flashback was needed and added a lot of weight to the moment.

Gordon's "Bruce Wayne?" was a little weird for me when I first saw it. I thought it could have been said differently. But now I don't feel the same. I think it's more of a "I never cared to even find out who it was....but Bruce Wayne!? That billionaire dope!? My god."

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Old 07-13-2013, 04:18 PM   #438
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

That moment was so cheesy and corny. Apparently Gordon can remember every person he's ever comforted. The audience, on the other hand, has to be reminded about it. I always thought Gordon had suspicions about who Batman was, but didn't care. Apparently he doesn't even have suspiscions, whereas Blake can telepathically discern it from a look. / end rant (for which I feel somewhat guilty)

On the other hand, back on topic, in terms of Burton's films, Gordon didn't even really have a role. Definitely a mark against Burton's mythos... a normal good cop like Gordon just doesn't fit in well.

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Old 07-13-2013, 04:24 PM   #439
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

If Oldman hadn't said anything, just facial acting, the flashback would have worked. The way it is now seems indeed unintentionally funny, like many things in TDKR.

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Old 07-13-2013, 05:01 PM   #440
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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Gordon's "Bruce Wayne?" was a little weird for me when I first saw it. I thought it could have been said differently. But now I don't feel the same. I think it's more of a "I never cared to even find out who it was....but Bruce Wayne!? That billionaire dope!? My god."
Exactly the same for me. I think his slightly underwhelmed reaction furthers the theme of Batman being a more powerful symbol than Bruce Wayne can be.

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That moment was so cheesy and corny. Apparently Gordon can remember every person he's ever comforted.
It'd be like someone comforting JFK Jr. after the JFK assassination. It makes sense that it would stay with him.

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Old 07-13-2013, 05:14 PM   #441
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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If Oldman hadn't said anything, just facial acting, the flashback would have worked. The way it is now seems indeed unintentionally funny, like many things in TDKR.
That whole sequence was rushing to close up plotlines. "Quick, Talia explain stuff and then die." "Quick, kiss Catwoman and say you have no autopilot." "Quick, tell Gordon who you are." I'm not sure which was more pressing... the ticking timebomb or the movie's ticking runtime .

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Old 07-13-2013, 05:55 PM   #442
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That moment was so cheesy and corny. Apparently Gordon can remember every person he's ever comforted. The audience, on the other hand, has to be reminded about it. I always thought Gordon had suspicions about who Batman was, but didn't care. Apparently he doesn't even have suspiscions, whereas Blake can telepathically discern it from a look. / end rant (for which I feel somewhat guilty)

On the other hand, back on topic, in terms of Burton's films, Gordon didn't even really have a role. Definitely a mark against Burton's mythos... a normal good cop like Gordon just doesn't fit in well.
Umm you really don't get it do you? Good lord. These movies are made with the general audience in mind not the fans. It was always like this with an iconic character like batman and will always be that way. For your information a lot of people only saw TDK and not Batman Begins. Plus I disagree. It wasn't corny, it was very emotional.

He's ever comforted? Maybe young Bruce was the only time he ever comforted a little kid who just lost his parents? More likely that bruce WAS the only kid he's done that for. Plus he's a wealthy billionaire of course he's going to remember that. The death of the Waynes was a big deal for Gotham. Gordon does NOT give a damn who Batman is, it's not that he couldn't figure it out, if he thought about it real hard he would have. But he chose not to think about who it is cuz he DOESNT CARE. That's why it's like a HUH? moment for him.

Is it really that hard to figure these scenes out? Mannn oh man.

Bruce Wayne is known as a complete idiot who doesn't work for anything, leeches off his family's wealth and history. He doesn't do anything but drink, party, have a blast, lock himself in his mansion doing god knows what...that's the public perception including Gordon's. If he cared for more than 1 minute of who Batman was, Gordon would have known and given a different reaction. But that's not the case.

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Old 07-13-2013, 05:59 PM   #443
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

The main thing that really annoys about the time bomb in TDKR and other movies with similar plot devices is that the time given before the bomb goes off is unrealistically low given the amount of things that happen within that frame...

Hell some films say only 2 minutes left before bomb goes off, then it follows the action of one character for 4 minutes...

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:03 PM   #444
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I don't know if its a good thing or bad, but it seems like Nolan's films have a much more sophisticated and concerning fan base than other characters and films.

The flaws listed in TDKR certainly exist, but there are scads of worse ones in other movies, and those fans seem to eat that **** up smiling.

...if you get my meaning.

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:12 PM   #445
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

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The main thing that really annoys about the time bomb in TDKR and other movies with similar plot devices is that the time given before the bomb goes off is unrealistically low given the amount of things that happen within that frame...

Hell some films say only 2 minutes left before bomb goes off, then it follows the action of one character for 4 minutes...
Actually, from what I hear, the chase scene, that bit and Bruce taking the bomb over the bay was all in real time. I'll have to rewatch and time it though.

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:14 PM   #446
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I understood the scene just fine, I just thought the way it played out was cheesy, as I said. Heck, the whole finale was emotional in a sense, but the way it played out was pure cheese (especially the Alfred cafe scene, which was cheese but cheese that I enjoyed). The "Gordon can remember every person" statement was a little tongue-in-cheek to contrast with the fact that the audience has to have it spelled out to them (next sentence). Honestly the best part about it was Batman saying Gordon was a hero, not Batman letting him know who he really was. I mean, Gordon knows now... so what? He never really knew Bruce Wayne, he knew the Batman.

But this is the Batman Returns thread, maybe we should get back to that and discuss TDKR in its own thread. I'm not sure how we even got on this topic.

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:22 PM   #447
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The flaws listed in TDKR certainly exist, but there are scads of worse ones in other movies, and those fans seem to eat that **** up smiling.

...if you get my meaning.
I'm more passionate about Batman movies than most "other movies." Simple as that. I think TDKR has two issues that cripple the story. Its still enjoyable to watch, but it is inherently broken. The rest of the minor critiques I don't care as much about, I can eat them up smiling the same as I can shrug off "NAHSS COAHT."

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:23 PM   #448
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Default Re: The Official Batman Returns Thread - Part 2

I think it's interesting that to this day, Batman Returns is still the only sequel Tim Burton has ever done. Recently there was a lot of talk of a Beetlejuice sequel in the works, but that seems to have died down. I'd love for it to happen though. I can't believe Burton hasn't worked with Keaton in over 20 years. That's insane to me.

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:29 PM   #449
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Actually, from what I hear, the chase scene, that bit and Bruce taking the bomb over the bay was all in real time. I'll have to rewatch and time it though.
Just Batman leaving the scene where Bane is killed and getting back to where he parked the Bat would eat up much of the time...he did walk his way through the massive brawl.

Again those are things that are there for those who just want to nitpick to death, but is something that does annoy me about many movies.

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:32 PM   #450
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I think it's interesting that to this day, Batman Returns is still the only sequel Tim Burton has ever done. Recently there was a lot of talk of a Beetlejuice sequel in the works, but that seems to have died down. I'd love for it to happen though. I can't believe Burton hasn't worked with Keaton in over 20 years. That's insane to me.
Yeah, that is insane. I would have loved to have seen Burton's Batman III. I think some of the weirdness in Batman Returns distracted people from the story's merits.

Interesting that he's not even doing Alice in Wonderland 2... Burton isn't big on sequels I guess.

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