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Old 07-14-2013, 02:10 AM   #501
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

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I sort of agree with this but I don't think the show had any episodes darker than BR. If that was the case parents and soccer moms would've been whining about this show being too dark and mature for kids. As they did with BR. I think B:MOTP fits with what you're asking as well. It's very mature and dark for an animated movie. It was a lot more mature than people were (or in this case weren't) expecting. That's probably why it didn't do too good. Other than the poor advertising and release date. That's what I loved about B:TAS and MOTP both kids and adults can enjoy it.
What parents were complaining about was the violence in Batman Returns. Dark =/= Violent. There are many movies and TV shows with a dark tone and mature content that lack violence. The Nolan films are an example of this. There is no blood or gory scenes in the Nolan films. At the same time, there are many things that are violent but are not dark or mature at all. Happy Tree Friends is very violent and gory but it has a lighthearted tone and it's by no means dark or mature. That being said, I don't think Batman Returns is more dark or more mature than the '89 film. If anything, it is more lighthearted. It is definitely not darker or more mature than Batman TAS though, and especially not darker or more mature than MOTP.

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Old 07-14-2013, 08:26 AM   #502
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

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I do believe this was Jeff Bennett's first animation role.
He had a number of roles before H.A.R.D.A.C.

He in fact played a version of the Michael Keaton Batman on Tiny Toons before his few B:TAS episodes aired.

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Old 07-14-2013, 09:25 PM   #503
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

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What parents were complaining about was the violence in Batman Returns. Dark =/= Violent. There are many movies and TV shows with a dark tone and mature content that lack violence. The Nolan films are an example of this. There is no blood or gory scenes in the Nolan films. At the same time, there are many things that are violent but are not dark or mature at all. Happy Tree Friends is very violent and gory but it has a lighthearted tone and it's by no means dark or mature. That being said, I don't think Batman Returns is more dark or more mature than the '89 film. If anything, it is more lighthearted. It is definitely not darker or more mature than Batman TAS though, and especially not darker or more mature than MOTP.
I didn't find anything lighthearted about BR. What exactly made BR more lighthearted than B89? Remote control penguins?

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Old 07-15-2013, 09:21 AM   #504
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

I think Returns has a lot of dark comedy to it, and a LOT of puns and one-liners. Not necessarily light-hearted, but I could definitely see why some would find it campier than Batman '89.

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Old 07-15-2013, 10:36 AM   #505
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

It's certainly campier than the first movie yet it's somehow darker lol. It's a weird contradiction. I think it's more gothic, feels more like a fairytale, it's colder not only because of the winter look but of how Bruce is written in comparison to the first or even the Shumacher's.

There's the sexual one-liners, more freakish things going on. But that gang that works for Penguin and the missiles strapped to his penguin friends are campier than anything the first movie supplied. Things like Penguin controlling the batmobile like an arcade game, that little dog, Max Shrek's son doing a Christopher Walken impression, Penguins giant duck-mobile or whatever it is, Batman taking off his mask and there's suddenly no eye shadow, Oswald running for Mayor like in the 60 tv series.

It's a mix of macabre and comedy.

MOTP is far more mature.


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Old 07-15-2013, 11:25 AM   #506
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

Goyer used the word "sober" to reference the tone of he and Nolan liked for Batman (in reference to The Long Halloween) and that's what I would say the tone of BTAS was, especially compared to the movies of the time. It was just more sober, which is referring to something entirely different than how 'dark' something is.

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Old 07-15-2013, 12:38 PM   #507
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

Don't you mean somber? lol

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Old 07-15-2013, 01:43 PM   #508
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

No, I mean sober. Batman Returns IS somber, but I wouldn't describe it as the most sober take on the Batman mythos.

Sober, not in the sense of not being drunk (haha), but in terms of further definitions of the word:

-marked by sedate or gravely or earnestly thoughtful character or demeanor
-marked by seriousness, gravity, solemnity, etc., as of demeanor, speech, etc.

Basically I'm just saying that BTAS has a more subdued, serious and realistic tone.

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Old 07-15-2013, 02:33 PM   #509
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

Yeah, for sure. Especially Mask Of The Phantasm when you compare it to the Burton-Shumacher movies. Especially the sequels in the 90s.

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Old 07-15-2013, 05:17 PM   #510
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

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It's certainly campier than the first movie yet it's somehow darker lol. It's a weird contradiction. I think it's more gothic, feels more like a fairytale, it's colder not only because of the winter look but of how Bruce is written in comparison to the first or even the Shumacher's.

There's the sexual one-liners, more freakish things going on. But that gang that works for Penguin and the missiles strapped to his penguin friends are campier than anything the first movie supplied. Things like Penguin controlling the batmobile like an arcade game, that little dog, Max Shrek's son doing a Christopher Walken impression, Penguins giant duck-mobile or whatever it is, Batman taking off his mask and there's suddenly no eye shadow, Oswald running for Mayor like in the 60 tv series.

It's a mix of macabre and comedy.

MOTP is far more mature.
I didnít find anything campy about a circus gang that kidnapped and possibly murdered children in their past history. Iím lost on how the poodle comes off campy. B/c it caught Batmanís remote control batarang? Which was used later I the plot when the Penguin frames Batman for the Ice Princess kidnapping. I didnít find anything campy about Penguin controlling the batmobile to terrorize Gothamites and causing a lot of property damage while doing so. Again he was doing that ruin to Batmanís reputation as Gothamís hero. I recall the Penguin in BTAS controlling the batmobile as well. Does that automatically make that episode campy? What exactly is campy about the actor playing Chip doing a Walken impression? Afterall he was playing Walkenís son in the movie. I doesnít matter if you found it a terrible impression, but that doesnít make it campy. The duckmobile makes sense in the story b/c he mustíve gotten it from the zoo. You can see the ďgiantĒ rubber duckies hanging on top of the zoo of Penguinís lair. Plus Burtonís version of the penguin is sort of a manchild with his tantrums and such. So it makes sense to me why he would ride around in that. It didnít feel out of place in this movie. Of all the many complaints about the climax you complain about the eye shadow disappearing when Batman takes off his mask. Not the fact that he took his mask off in front of Shreck. And Bruce believing that Shreck wonĎt reveal his identity to the public if Bruce somehow prevented Selina from killing Shreck. Btw, whatís campy about the eye shadow disappearing? It was more of a goof than anything else. Yeah I know Penguin running for Mayor came from the 60s show, but to you it automatically means BR is campy b/c it had a similar plot?

I agree with you about MOTP.

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Old 07-15-2013, 05:22 PM   #511
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

Most of BR's camp is found in the dialogue, IMO. Btw, "camp" doesn't have to be inherently seen as a bad thing. I'm just sharing my observations on the movie, not judging it for that.

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Old 07-15-2013, 05:23 PM   #512
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

Haha, Batman takes his mask off and suddenly has no eye-shadow in Batman Begins as well. That's not camp, its just an insignificant continuity error because the eye-shadow is only there to accentuate the suit.

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Old 07-15-2013, 05:26 PM   #513
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Old 07-15-2013, 05:50 PM   #514
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Haha, Batman takes his mask off and suddenly has no eye-shadow in Batman Begins as well. That's not camp, its just an insignificant continuity error because the eye-shadow is only there to accentuate the suit.
That's not what I meant. I mean the campy part is how you see him with the cowl on with the shadow then the next shot he's about to take it off and he looks hilarious in the cowl because now the makeup is gone. It's a common joke for that scene. Even Kevin Smith laughs about it. It's a goof though.

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I didn’t find anything campy about a circus gang that kidnapped and possibly murdered children in their past history. I’m lost on how the poodle comes off campy. B/c it caught Batman’s remote control batarang? Which was used later I the plot when the Penguin frames Batman for the Ice Princess kidnapping. I didn’t find anything campy about Penguin controlling the batmobile to terrorize Gothamites and causing a lot of property damage while doing so. Again he was doing that ruin to Batman’s reputation as Gotham’s hero. I recall the Penguin in BTAS controlling the batmobile as well. Does that automatically make that episode campy? What exactly is campy about the actor playing Chip doing a Walken impression? Afterall he was playing Walken’s son in the movie. I doesn’t matter if you found it a terrible impression, but that doesn’t make it campy. The duckmobile makes sense in the story b/c he must’ve gotten it from the zoo. You can see the “giant” rubber duckies hanging on top of the zoo of Penguin’s lair. Plus Burton’s version of the penguin is sort of a manchild with his tantrums and such. So it makes sense to me why he would ride around in that. It didn’t feel out of place in this movie. Of all the many complaints about the climax you complain about the eye shadow disappearing when Batman takes off his mask. Not the fact that he took his mask off in front of Shreck. And Bruce believing that Shreck won‘t reveal his identity to the public if Bruce somehow prevented Selina from killing Shreck. Btw, what’s campy about the eye shadow disappearing? It was more of a goof than anything else. Yeah I know Penguin running for Mayor came from the 60s show, but to you it automatically means BR is campy b/c it had a similar plot?

I agree with you about MOTP.
Im laughing as I read this, because it's the definition of goofy. Im mainly talking about the execution rather than what theyre actually doing.

A poodle with funny music in the backround while it runs with a batarang in its mouth is not goofy as hell? Penguin making Batman run over people isn't funny but the execution where it looks like Penguin is in an arcade game looking ridiculous, yes, comes off silly. The circus gang with that music and dialogue was pretty goofy. So is ANY time Batman smiles with the mask on. Does it feel out of place in the movie? No. Did I dig it as a child? Sure. But it feels out of place in the world of the first film which doesn't have that level of camp. Not THAT much.

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Old 07-15-2013, 05:53 PM   #515
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

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That's not what I meant. I mean the campy part is how you see him with the cowl on with the shadow then the next shot he's about to take it off and he looks hilarious in the cowl because now the makeup is gone. It's a common joke for that scene. Even Kevin Smith laughs about it. It's a goof though.
Eyeshadow disappears as you take the cowl off... campy.

Eyeshadow disappears after you take the cowl off... totally serious and grounded.

I see...

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Old 07-15-2013, 06:30 PM   #516
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Ummm yeah. When you can clearly see Keaton with the cowl on and around his eyes are black then the next shot is Keaton with the cowl on but there's his eyes with spaces around it, gaps where there's supposed to be black, looking goofy. Then he takes it off. Kevin Smith even said it was silly like "cmon man! just play it like you put makeup around ur eyes once the cowl is off!".

There was a scene in the script of Begins before Bruce enters the party. He's got the makeup on with his tux and Alfred says COME HERE and wipes the makeup from his eyes before he heads out. But they cut it.

It's more a goof/error rather than an intentional campy moment. But it comes off silly.

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Old 07-15-2013, 06:38 PM   #517
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

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That's not what I meant. I mean the campy part is how you see him with the cowl on with the shadow then the next shot he's about to take it off and he looks hilarious in the cowl because now the makeup is gone. It's a common joke for that scene. Even Kevin Smith laughs about it. It's a goof though.

Im laughing as I read this, because it's the definition of goofy. Im mainly talking about the execution rather than what theyre actually doing.

A poodle with funny music in the backround while it runs with a batarang in its mouth is not goofy as hell? Penguin making Batman run over people isn't funny but the execution where it looks like Penguin is in an arcade game looking ridiculous, yes, comes off silly. The circus gang with that music and dialogue was pretty goofy. So is ANY time Batman smiles with the mask on. Does it feel out of place in the movie? No. Did I dig it as a child? Sure. But it feels out of place in the world of the first film which doesn't have that level of camp. Not THAT much.
I couldn't care less what Kevin Smith thinks, but at least you admitted that the disappearing eye shadow was more of goof than camp. That moment where the poodle catches the remote control batarang was suppose to be funny. I didnít find anything goofy about the music playing (whenever it played) as the Red Triangle Gang showed up. What Elfman wrote for the RTG was very appropriate and fitting, imho. I never found it goofy. It gave the RTG a twisted and eerie vibe, imho. And it was supposed to be funny in a dark humor kind of way, when Batman smiled after putting a bomb on that goon. I always figured whenever Keatonís Batman gave a psychotic grin to someone that means that personís screwed. Of course that moment backfired for most of the fans. And made Batman seem more sinister than heroic. It was far from funny to the purists. The reason why a lot of those ďgoofyĒ moments feel out of place with B89, b/c Burton didnít want to do a direct sequel to B89. BR is kind of itís own thing. Itís a loose sequel to B89 at best. I know theres many including yourself that have a problem with that. But I canít blame Burton for trying something different from itís predecessor.
Btw, Iím not denying BR has some cartoon-y moments in it. It has itís share of plotholes and flaws as well, but I donít agree with the stuff you find ďgoofy as hellĒ.

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Old 07-15-2013, 06:53 PM   #518
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

When something comes off too cartoony in a live-action film (besides comedies or older horror films) then I find it goofy and im just not a fan of that stuff. It was different when I was a kid. I loved the Burton films, especially Returns. But I never remembered a lot of that stuff. So in revisiting them as an adult, I can see what feels campy to me and what doesn't.

Yeah Returns is a loose sequel to 89. I don't mind that. It's a unique movie. I just find it more cartoony (in a dark gothic way) than Mask Of The Phantasm, and that's literally a cartoon. Go figure.

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Old 07-15-2013, 07:11 PM   #519
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I got what you were saying just sharing my opinion on it.

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Old 07-17-2013, 06:53 PM   #520
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

BTAS Episode: Heart of Steel, Part 2

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Old 07-17-2013, 06:56 PM   #521
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Really fun episode. Those robots were freaky, man.

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Old 07-17-2013, 06:58 PM   #522
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Default Re: The Official Batman TAS Thread - Part 1

The scene in the millionaires club where they try and get Bruce was the freakiest scene. The red eyes lighting up in the dark room.

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Old 07-17-2013, 08:00 PM   #523
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Old 07-18-2013, 12:11 AM   #524
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Barbara being awesome is awesome.

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Old 07-18-2013, 12:23 AM   #525
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I enjoyed both parts of Heart of Steel. The animation in both is still very stunning. I found HARDAC (although it's a computer) to be a pretty good foe for Batman. And seeing Barbara in her first adventure on the show had me hoping that Batgirl would appear sooner or later. And she did in season 2.

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