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#26 |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,568
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lol, I still remember the posts about it being Basa vs Basara. I thought it was Basa initially, I'm man enough to admit that.
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#27 |
HBIC
SHH! Global Moderator
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It took me a while to get fish fish pasta out of my head after someone suggested it.
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#28 | |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
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#29 | |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
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#30 |
Make Mine Marble
Join Date: Feb 2005
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I don't think Blake's response to the Bat-swarm is even supposed to evoke such an emotional response from the audience as Bruce's did. Bruce Wayne/Batman is the legend, the passage of which should evoke a degree of regret. If we were invited to feel that attachment to Blake/Robin/Nightwing/Batman-Lite, we could fairly feel aggrieved that Bruce wasn't being afforded much respect.
I'm unsurprised to see claims of "tears" or "goosebumps" from those who can be relied upon to defend everything about TDKR, but I think, in this instance, that they might be missing the point.
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"Myth and high culture have much in common. Each is concerned to idealise the human condition, to lift it free from contingencies". - Sir Roger Scruton Love Freedom? PENCE 2018 |
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#31 |
Lobsterized
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You're right, it's not supposed to invite the same emotional response at all. In BB, it was the centerpiece of one long sequence, in TDKR it's a smaller bit in a larger montage involving multiple characters. Any emotional response to it (at least on my part) involves the placement of that scene in relation to the other scenes in the montage, along with the swell of the music in that moment, etc. It certainly didn't take me out of the moment or anger me the way it did for some- there had already been plenty of visual callbacks to the previous films in TDKR here was one final (and poignant) one. It's a bittersweet moment- seeing a new face down in the cave, knowing Bruce won't be down there again, knowing that the story is ending. But there's still happiness and triumph in knowing that Bruce's legacy can be carried forward through future generations, and there's something mystical about the bats greeting each new inhabitant the same way, as if it's some sort of rite of passage.
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#32 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
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The goosebumps is not just the music, the callbacks, the mirroring, or even seeing Bruce still alive (ALL of that plays into it too) but it's about a few other things for me too. 1 of those things is something that a lot of people share with me that I speak to. In that the ending and the way it's setup and all comes together is exactly what I had hoped AND much more. This is the ending of the trilogy I hoped I would get. Something completely satisfying. A lot of people had a split reaction about the ending of LOST but I was emotionally spent with that ending as well, and thought it was perfection. It's not a spoiler to say that they ended everything about the PEOPLE and not the mythological elements of the island.
The other part is my personal experience with Robin. I never truly cared for Dick Grayson or any other version of Robin my entire life. Ive liked certain takes but I don't reaaaally care about it. Ive always took the Christian Bale stance with not wanting the character to come near this trilogy. But he was also a huge part of my childhood whether I liked it or not. Nolan actually gave me his version of Robin and it felt like a Tim Drake + Dick Grayson mix. Nolan made me really enjoy Robin for the first time, probably because he was the embodiment of what a Robin is without throwing a cape, red tights on a teenage boy. Plus JGL is one of my favorite actors in recent years. So when he's entering the cave, im getting emotional because the themes are all coming together, it's the ending I wanted regardless of what others wanted for this movie. I NEVER wanted Batman to be standing on top of skyscraper for the ending, because that's not an ending. And I realized right when the bomb exploded that I didn't want Bruce/Bats to die. So when I not only see Bruce alive and happy and away from the pain of Gotham.....and I see Robin (a character that's been a part of my childhood who im now seeing in a better light) getting hit in the face by bats in the same way Bruce did, but reacting like the boy wonder? THAT made me emotional. It was a weird emotional reaction I had each time in the cinema. I still get it on blu ray when I see it. It's not only a personal thing, but I truly feel everything came full circle. Wrapped in a bow. People from Gary Oldman to Christian Bale to Christopher Nolan have said the same things. And I trusted their word because ill trust them over people (no offense) who sit behind a computer nitpicking superhero movies on a messageboard. I trusted them and I was rewarded. They were right. Of course they were. They made this stuff and they put their passion into it even if others go against it.
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#33 | |
Make Mine Marble
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Anywho, I'm not aiming to cheapen your emotional response to the Robin/Batswarm scene; I merely suspect that it might be a bit more extreme that anything the director had really envisioned.
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"Myth and high culture have much in common. Each is concerned to idealise the human condition, to lift it free from contingencies". - Sir Roger Scruton Love Freedom? PENCE 2018 |
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#34 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Shauner, honestly you've pretty much summed up my overall reaction to a T there including my views on the ending both before and after seeing the movie. I knew I didn't want to see a "Batman on a rooftop" ending, and I was really paranoid that the shot on the bridge from the trailers was the last shot. Beyond that it was tricky because I also didn't want Bruce to die, and I (foolishly in hindsight) refused to believe Blake would be an important enough character to warrant being passed the mantle. TDKR ended up giving me what I wanted, but didn't realize I wanted.
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#35 |
Twip
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Blakes way was more like discovering a legacy, Bruce was finding his destiny. They are two different characters. I thought the ending to TDKR was satisfying but the TDK's was perfect. I would have been happy for the series to end there.
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#36 |
Make Mine Marble
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With retrospect, I agree with you. BB/TDK as a two-parter, to me, feels much stronger than the trilogy as a whole.
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"Myth and high culture have much in common. Each is concerned to idealise the human condition, to lift it free from contingencies". - Sir Roger Scruton Love Freedom? PENCE 2018 |
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#37 |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Seconded. To me Rises spits all over the journey they were sending Batman on.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#38 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
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It rewards that journey.
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"Lets make one thing very clear here - Nolan's films are as faithful an adaptation as there is. It pays homage to its source material, remains true to its characters and above all else places the story first and foremost." - jmc |
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#39 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Third acts tend to be about reversals, whether it be within the context of an individual movie, or the third part of a trilogy.
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#40 |
Iron Captain
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,513
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Where did you see Batman's journey heading after TDK?
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#41 | |
In the shadows
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Your mind.
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Gotta say, you impress me. Each time someone makes a throw-away comment about "those who can be relied upon to defend everything about TDKR" or something alone those lines, you come back with an explanation for your opinion that is both perfectly logical and valid. If only Anno took a lesson from you... Anyone else as fascinated by this TDKR thread as I am? Hard to believe there are new posts in it every day after a year of the film being released. And you've all gotta admit that it's pretty funny how this thread is essentially a very polite 3 on 3 battle of opinions. There's a couple of guys who've made their distaste for TDKR quite evident, so they're always agreeing and high-fiving each other via posts. "Yeah, man, you're right! TDKR spits all over everything the first 2 films did!" Then there's the few people who are more than happy with how TDKR turned out and do the exact same thing. "Totally agreed. TDKR honors the first two so much." And then the conversations move on and cycle through the same subjects that have been discussed for over a year (it is only a 2.5 hour movie after all). The same people agree, the same people disagree, over and over. Nothing is accomplished. Nothing changes. It's like the Twilight Zone. Not intending to insult anyone whatsoever, especially since I've participated as well. I just think it's pretty funny when you look at this thread from that perspective, and if we can't laugh at ourselves, who can we laugh at?
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#42 |
Twip
Join Date: Jun 2013
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I would have liked an entery inbetween TDK and TDKR. For me Batman giving up the crowl for 8 years after only one year as batman is unrealistic. While I know this is Nolan's version I don't think the CB Batman would do that. I find TDK Returns superior to TDKR.
Last edited by Green Goblin; 07-16-2013 at 11:21 AM. |
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#43 | |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
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How can Batman be enduring anything when he's not Batman any more?
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#44 | |
Twip
Join Date: Jun 2013
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#45 | |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
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If I may though, regwec recently said something to the effect of "I only criticize the Nolan films because at least they are worth criticizing". And from my end, I only respond to certain criticisms because I think they are worth addressing and discussing. I'm not about trying to show that I'm "objectively" right, I just want to express why I might see a given thing differently and have a positive reaction to it rather than negative. Even if I don't change anyone's mind I hope to at least give them a better idea of why I might like something they don't. A higher level of discourse is what I ultimately crave. |
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#46 | ||
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
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BtaLobster, great minds think alike! lol. Yeah I never wanted to see Batman on top of that bridge as the ending. That's the same as Batman 89 or Batman Begins even. That's no ending.
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The problem lies with people thinking this is exactly like the comics or Batman is the man Bruce Wayne. So he should endure for longer, he shouldn't retire or pass the mantle to another man. But that's not what this trilogy is about. Begins spelled it out for us and they followed through in the ending. Batman is NOT a man, it's a symbol.
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"Lets make one thing very clear here - Nolan's films are as faithful an adaptation as there is. It pays homage to its source material, remains true to its characters and above all else places the story first and foremost." - jmc Last edited by shauner111; 07-16-2013 at 11:54 AM. |
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#47 | |
The Clown Prince of Crime
Join Date: Dec 2003
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That's endurance. If he quit then he wouldn't be enduring which is why Alfred was urging him to continue. The only reason he wasn't Batman any more in TDKR is because he wasn't needed. Gotham got magically cleaned up thanks to Dent's legacy as soon as he died. Gordon: "We were in this together and then you were gone" Bruce: "The Batman wasn't needed any more. We won" Gordon: "Based on a lie" No endurance necessary when you're not being Batman any more.
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"Sometimes I remember it one way. Sometimes another. If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!" - The Joker |
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#48 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 7,670
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He endures boredom for 8 years.
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#49 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
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Hasn't everyone in their life had to emotionally endure something? The definition of the word isn't limited to physical acts. And neither is Batman when he's meant to be a symbol.
Last edited by BatLobsterRises; 07-16-2013 at 12:11 PM. |
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#50 | |
Make Mine Marble
Join Date: Feb 2005
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It's a pity more threads aren't equally civil. Yes, and I would repeat that. I don't love everything about these films, but they are proper films, made with a degree of care and artistry. Ten minutes of BB is worth more to me than the entire output of Marvel Studios.
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"Myth and high culture have much in common. Each is concerned to idealise the human condition, to lift it free from contingencies". - Sir Roger Scruton Love Freedom? PENCE 2018 |
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