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View Poll Results: Which one is going to make more money?
The Avengers 33 22.76%
The Dark Knight Rises 112 77.24%
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:15 AM   #476
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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You didn't like the avengers?
As with BB I liked more about Avengers than I disliked. Basically Avengers is a whole load of pure fun with some problems. I think it might be even a little better than BB.

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Old 07-17-2013, 12:07 PM   #477
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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As with BB I liked more about Avengers than I disliked. Basically Avengers is a whole load of pure fun with some problems. I think it might be even a little better than BB.
Only thing I didn't like about the Avengers was Hawkeye. I don't think it's fair to compare the Avengers to other Comic Book Movies. I mean several of our favorite hero's coming together in one movie is enough to make anyone like or love it.

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Old 07-17-2013, 12:14 PM   #478
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Neither one of these films won significant awards hahaha.

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Old 07-17-2013, 02:05 PM   #479
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Avengers won an Oscar... for special effects.

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Old 07-17-2013, 02:39 PM   #480
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Avengers won an Oscar... for special effects.
Life of Pi actually won the award for visual effects.

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Old 07-17-2013, 03:27 PM   #481
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Life of Pi actually won the award for visual effects.
oops your right

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Old 07-17-2013, 04:21 PM   #482
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Neither one of these films won significant awards hahaha.
People's choice awards.

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Old 07-17-2013, 04:36 PM   #483
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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People's choice awards.
They're only slightly better than the MTV Movie Awards.

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Old 07-17-2013, 05:20 PM   #484
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People's choice awards? Thats considered 'significant' these days? Come on, Snow White was up for favorite movie of the year. The People's Choice Awards don't even respect themselves. They don't even have enough confidence to make their top category 'Best Movie' it has to be 'Favorite Movie' because they know the movie picked certainly isn't going to be the best film of the year and probably isn't much more artistic than a Michael Bay film(if it isn't one!).

Its also a little naive to make blank statements about how The Avengers was overly more received than The Dark Knight Rises. If you look at the websites that specialize in these things:

Rotten Tomatoes: TA(92) TDKR(87)
Rotten Tomatoes(audience): TA(96) TDKR(92)
Metacritc: TA(69) TDKR(78)
IMDB: TA(8.4) TDKR(8.7)

Metacritic, which actually takes in account score of reviews, not a simple % of positive and negative reviews, TDKR has a solid advantage at 78(81 is critical acclaim) to 69. The Avengers got one Effects Oscar nomination, TDKR got nothing. Its not like The Avengers was nominated for 12 things and won some serious awards. TDKR was on AFI's top 10 films of the year along with many Best Pic nominees. The Avengers wasn't.

Then we look at the B.O. The Avengers was the most successful film of the year, TDKR was second in the states and top 5 in the world, so its not like it wasn't popular. Then, add the fact that The Avengers was in 3D and TDKR wasn't, that means The Avengers got extra income TDKR couldn't. Also, we look at the fact that TDKR is 20 minutes longer than TA. This leads to probably an average of around 2 or so less shows a day than The Avengers at cinemas, depending on how many prints they have. It isn't so cut and dry.

I'm not saying The Avenger's ISN'T the film of 2012, but I think its way too close to tell.

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Old 07-17-2013, 06:05 PM   #485
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Originally Posted by weezerspider View Post
People's choice awards? Thats considered 'significant' these days? Come on, Snow White was up for favorite movie of the year. The People's Choice Awards don't even respect themselves. They don't even have enough confidence to make their top category 'Best Movie' it has to be 'Favorite Movie' because they know the movie picked certainly isn't going to be the best film of the year and probably isn't much more artistic than a Michael Bay film(if it isn't one!).

Its also a little naive to make blank statements about how The Avengers was overly more received than The Dark Knight Rises. If you look at the websites that specialize in these things:

Rotten Tomatoes: TA(92) TDKR(87)
Rotten Tomatoes(audience): TA(96) TDKR(92)
Metacritc: TA(69) TDKR(78)
IMDB: TA(8.4) TDKR(8.7)

Metacritic, which actually takes in account score of reviews, not a simple % of positive and negative reviews, TDKR has a solid advantage at 78(81 is critical acclaim) to 69. The Avengers got one Effects Oscar nomination, TDKR got nothing. Its not like The Avengers was nominated for 12 things and won some serious awards. TDKR was on AFI's top 10 films of the year along with many Best Pic nominees. The Avengers wasn't.

Then we look at the B.O. The Avengers was the most successful film of the year, TDKR was second in the states and top 5 in the world, so its not like it wasn't popular. Then, add the fact that The Avengers was in 3D and TDKR wasn't, that means The Avengers got extra income TDKR couldn't. Also, we look at the fact that TDKR is 20 minutes longer than TA. This leads to probably an average of around 2 or so less shows a day than The Avengers at cinemas, depending on how many prints they have. It isn't so cut and dry.

I'm not saying The Avenger's ISN'T the film of 2012, but I think its way too close to tell.
Great post, I wholeheartedly agree.

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Old 07-18-2013, 10:48 AM   #486
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Originally Posted by weezerspider View Post
People's choice awards? Thats considered 'significant' these days? Come on, Snow White was up for favorite movie of the year. The People's Choice Awards don't even respect themselves. They don't even have enough confidence to make their top category 'Best Movie' it has to be 'Favorite Movie' because they know the movie picked certainly isn't going to be the best film of the year and probably isn't much more artistic than a Michael Bay film(if it isn't one!).

Its also a little naive to make blank statements about how The Avengers was overly more received than The Dark Knight Rises. If you look at the websites that specialize in these things:

Rotten Tomatoes: TA(92) TDKR(87)
Rotten Tomatoes(audience): TA(96) TDKR(92)
Metacritc: TA(69) TDKR(78)
IMDB: TA(8.4) TDKR(8.7)

Metacritic, which actually takes in account score of reviews, not a simple % of positive and negative reviews, TDKR has a solid advantage at 78(81 is critical acclaim) to 69. The Avengers got one Effects Oscar nomination, TDKR got nothing. Its not like The Avengers was nominated for 12 things and won some serious awards. TDKR was on AFI's top 10 films of the year along with many Best Pic nominees. The Avengers wasn't.

Then we look at the B.O. The Avengers was the most successful film of the year, TDKR was second in the states and top 5 in the world, so its not like it wasn't popular. Then, add the fact that The Avengers was in 3D and TDKR wasn't, that means The Avengers got extra income TDKR couldn't. Also, we look at the fact that TDKR is 20 minutes longer than TA. This leads to probably an average of around 2 or so less shows a day than The Avengers at cinemas, depending on how many prints they have. It isn't so cut and dry.

I'm not saying The Avenger's ISN'T the film of 2012, but I think its way too close to tell.
Even accounting for 3D Avengers sold more tickets than TDKR, both domestically and WW (WW it wasn't even a contest.)

If you want to account for tickets sold, you might be able to compare TDK to Avengers, it's probably close (domestically anyway)

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Old 07-18-2013, 11:53 AM   #487
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Also, not for nothing, TDKR opened in more theaters than The Avengers. That should probably factor into the equation as well.

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Old 07-18-2013, 03:04 PM   #488
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Originally Posted by weezerspider View Post
People's choice awards? Thats considered 'significant' these days? Come on, Snow White was up for favorite movie of the year. The People's Choice Awards don't even respect themselves. They don't even have enough confidence to make their top category 'Best Movie' it has to be 'Favorite Movie' because they know the movie picked certainly isn't going to be the best film of the year and probably isn't much more artistic than a Michael Bay film(if it isn't one!).

Its also a little naive to make blank statements about how The Avengers was overly more received than The Dark Knight Rises. If you look at the websites that specialize in these things:

Rotten Tomatoes: TA(92) TDKR(87)
Rotten Tomatoes(audience): TA(96) TDKR(92)
Metacritc: TA(69) TDKR(78)
IMDB: TA(8.4) TDKR(8.7)

Metacritic, which actually takes in account score of reviews, not a simple % of positive and negative reviews, TDKR has a solid advantage at 78(81 is critical acclaim) to 69. The Avengers got one Effects Oscar nomination, TDKR got nothing. Its not like The Avengers was nominated for 12 things and won some serious awards. TDKR was on AFI's top 10 films of the year along with many Best Pic nominees. The Avengers wasn't.

Then we look at the B.O. The Avengers was the most successful film of the year, TDKR was second in the states and top 5 in the world, so its not like it wasn't popular. Then, add the fact that The Avengers was in 3D and TDKR wasn't, that means The Avengers got extra income TDKR couldn't. Also, we look at the fact that TDKR is 20 minutes longer than TA. This leads to probably an average of around 2 or so less shows a day than The Avengers at cinemas, depending on how many prints they have. It isn't so cut and dry.

I'm not saying The Avenger's ISN'T the film of 2012, but I think its way too close to tell.
This is exactly my point. I hate when both sides go to the extremes. "Avengers was obviously the movie of the year and was better received, TDKR doesn't hold up and is overrated", "TDKR was the movie of the year, The Avengers was nothing more than popcorn fun and the GA truly loved TDKR more".

It will continue to happen though so whatever.

If BO is the best indication, then Avatar is without a doubt the best received movie of all time and TF: DOM is in the top 10.

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Old 07-19-2013, 01:02 AM   #489
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Even accounting for 3D Avengers sold more tickets than TDKR, both domestically and WW (WW it wasn't even a contest.)
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Also, not for nothing, TDKR opened in more theaters than The Avengers. That should probably factor into the equation as well.

TDKR's length played a factor in it getting more theaters to get more showings in. The Avengers could fit more shows in one theater, so the film wasn't released quite as wide(though lets not act like it was some limited release film), where as WB would have pushed TDKR for more theaters than normal because it was a cash guarantee and it's length was going to hurt their ability to get as much money as possible with the film. For example, my art-house down the street gets like one or two blockbusters a year. Last year the only wide-release film it got was TDKR and Argo and TDKR only had two showings a day because its an art-house, but thats the result of WB pushing their release. I worked in film distribution to get through college. These kind of things are pretty normal for any blockbuster with a 2:40+ running time.

Also, we can't forget the tragedy that completely destroyed the box office for a few weeks in a row. No film could make any money during those first three or four weeks after the tragic events, yet TDKR still made the most opening weekend for a 2D only film. Its not farfetched to think it hurt the film.

Even accounting for all of these things, I DONT think TDKR would have made more money than The Avengers in a more even situation, but once again, my point is, its not as clear cut as some seem to think, or want to think. People see The Avengers has a higher RT score and it made more money so therefore its easily the more pleasing/successful/favorite film when theres much more factors to consider as I posted in my previous post.

The most telling thing to me that makes me realize its even closer than I originally thought is the Metacritc score. Metacritic isn't nearly as appealing as RT because, unlike RT, it actually averages out the SCORES of the reviews, not a simple positive-negative percentage, so naturally, the overall scores tend to be lower which is not nearly as cool or appealing. 81-100 is critical acclaim on Metacritic because, lets be honest, if you average out all the review scores and your review score is in the 80's or above, people pretty much dig your movie. However, its not as cool or as appealing to say "The Dark Knight has an 82!" as it is to say "The Dark Knight has a 94!". TDKR has a 78 on Metacritic which is a very very good score, three points away from 'critical acclaim'. Where as The Avengers has a 69, which is still a very solid score, but also a solid 9 points down from TDKR. If you look at both Metacritic and RT together it appears a higher percentage of critics liked The Avengers, but those who liked TDKR felt it was a much better film than those who liked The Avengers, who felt it was a good film that did what it was supposed to do.

Basically, as my point still stands: Its too damn close to tell. They both will be remembered with 2012. Probably The Avengers will be remembered more by comic fans and TDKR will be remembered more by film fans.

I also don't have a dog in this fight. I have two. I love both films to death. I'm not trying to bash The Avengers. I just don't think its a clear cut winner like some of you guys.

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Old 07-19-2013, 08:36 AM   #490
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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TDKR's length played a factor in it getting more theaters to get more showings in. The Avengers could fit more shows in one theater, so the film wasn't released quite as wide(though lets not act like it was some limited release film), where as WB would have pushed TDKR for more theaters than normal because it was a cash guarantee and it's length was going to hurt their ability to get as much money as possible with the film. For example, my art-house down the street gets like one or two blockbusters a year. Last year the only wide-release film it got was TDKR and Argo and TDKR only had two showings a day because its an art-house, but thats the result of WB pushing their release. I worked in film distribution to get through college. These kind of things are pretty normal for any blockbuster with a 2:40+ running time.

Also, we can't forget the tragedy that completely destroyed the box office for a few weeks in a row. No film could make any money during those first three or four weeks after the tragic events, yet TDKR still made the most opening weekend for a 2D only film. Its not farfetched to think it hurt the film.

Even accounting for all of these things, I DONT think TDKR would have made more money than The Avengers in a more even situation, but once again, my point is, its not as clear cut as some seem to think, or want to think. People see The Avengers has a higher RT score and it made more money so therefore its easily the more pleasing/successful/favorite film when theres much more factors to consider as I posted in my previous post.

The most telling thing to me that makes me realize its even closer than I originally thought is the Metacritc score. Metacritic isn't nearly as appealing as RT because, unlike RT, it actually averages out the SCORES of the reviews, not a simple positive-negative percentage, so naturally, the overall scores tend to be lower which is not nearly as cool or appealing. 81-100 is critical acclaim on Metacritic because, lets be honest, if you average out all the review scores and your review score is in the 80's or above, people pretty much dig your movie. However, its not as cool or as appealing to say "The Dark Knight has an 82!" as it is to say "The Dark Knight has a 94!". TDKR has a 78 on Metacritic which is a very very good score, three points away from 'critical acclaim'. Where as The Avengers has a 69, which is still a very solid score, but also a solid 9 points down from TDKR. If you look at both Metacritic and RT together it appears a higher percentage of critics liked The Avengers, but those who liked TDKR felt it was a much better film than those who liked The Avengers, who felt it was a good film that did what it was supposed to do.

Basically, as my point still stands: Its too damn close to tell. They both will be remembered with 2012. Probably The Avengers will be remembered more by comic fans and TDKR will be remembered more by film fans.

I also don't have a dog in this fight. I have two. I love both films to death. I'm not trying to bash The Avengers. I just don't think its a clear cut winner like some of you guys.
Also the Metacritic User scores have TDKR at 8.5 and The Avengers has a 7.9 score. And they both have a very high sample of users, which is also evidence that it is not as clear cut as some people think.

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Old 07-19-2013, 10:11 AM   #491
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Eh, I think The Avengers is better. TDKR just became a dumb movie to me after a while, which is ironic considering The Avengers deals with aliens and whatnot.

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Old 07-19-2013, 10:39 AM   #492
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Eh, I think The Avengers is better. TDKR just became a dumb movie to me after a while, which is ironic considering The Avengers deals with aliens and whatnot.
Viceversa for me. One thing Avengers has for it, that The Dark Knight Rises doesn't, is that it could've been a spectacular failure. There was more stacked against TA, and it still did quite well in terms of $$$ and critical reception.

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Old 07-19-2013, 02:23 PM   #493
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The fact is not one person picked Avengers to be the no. 1 film of the year, and many, many sources didn't even pick it to reach a billion.

Avengers pretty much took batman on their collective laps and spanked him until his bat bottom was glowing red, box office wise.

Add to the fact that Avengers lost half of it's IMAX screens in week 2 due to Dark Shadows and WB's agreement with IMAX (which the theater chains were livid over).

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Old 07-19-2013, 02:26 PM   #494
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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Eh, I think The Avengers is better. TDKR just became a dumb movie to me after a while, which is ironic considering The Avengers deals with aliens and whatnot.
That's what's amazing to me. Had TDKR been the 2nd movie in the series, people would be blasting it, in the way many blast Iron Man 2. It gets a pass because it generated good will from the 2nd film. It's really not a very good movie. JGL is the only enjoyable character for me in that film.

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Old 07-19-2013, 02:39 PM   #495
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That's what's amazing to me. Had TDKR been the 2nd movie in the series, people would be blasting it, in the way many blast Iron Man 2. It gets a pass because it generated good will from the 2nd film. It's really not a very good movie. JGL is the only enjoyable character for me in that film.
So why is SM3 blasted? SM2 was very well received. Why is X3 blasted? X2 was very well received. Why can't people accept both movies were very well received? Yes The Avengers made way more money, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees it is a better movie. The TDKR gets more than a pass.

I'm sorry but your comment is on par with comments like "TDK was only good because of the Joker".

Your whole point can not be proven.

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Old 07-19-2013, 03:31 PM   #496
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So why is SM3 blasted? SM2 was very well received. Why is X3 blasted? X2 was very well received. Why can't people accept both movies were very well received? Yes The Avengers made way more money, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees it is a better movie. The TDKR gets more than a pass.

I'm sorry but your comment is on par with comments like "TDK was only good because of the Joker".

Your whole point can not be proven.
You don't prove an opinion, and my opinion happens to be shared by others. Your non-sequitor of TDK being good only because of the joker non-withstanding, or other 3rd movie failures.

TDKR IMO is the most overrated comic book movie out there. Some of the moments are seriously LOL hilarious. Look at the end fight with Bane and watch the background police officers fighting Bane's minions, it's seriously laughably bad, but the focus is on Band and Batman so most people don't notice. The plot lines are all over the place and lead no where. Catwoman is pretty much an afterthought.

This is an opinion thread, and that is mine. What I state about Avengers being the film of 2012 is not "provable" as it's an opinion, but there's a lot of evidence to back it up.

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Old 07-19-2013, 04:16 PM   #497
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

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So why is SM3 blasted? SM2 was very well received. Why is X3 blasted? X2 was very well received. Why can't people accept both movies were very well received? Yes The Avengers made way more money, but that doesn't mean everyone agrees it is a better movie. The TDKR gets more than a pass.

I'm sorry but your comment is on par with comments like "TDK was only good because of the Joker".

Your whole point can not be proven.
Exactly, The Dark Knight Rises is a very well received movie compared to Spider-man 3 and X-Men: The Last Stand. If someone's going to claim it would have been blasted if it was the series' second installment, then they need to provide proof to back up that claim. It's one thing to have your own opinion on a movie, but it's another to base claims of it's reception purely based on yours.


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Old 07-19-2013, 04:20 PM   #498
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Exactly, The Dark Knight Rises is a very well received movie compared to Spider-man 3 and X-Men: The Last Stand. If someone's going to claim it would have been blasted if it was the series' second installment, then they need to proof to back up that claim. It's one thing to have your own opinion on a movie, but it's another to base claims of it's reception purely based on yours.
Thank you.

Just to add: I don't think TDK was only good because of the Joker, I'm just saying there are ridiculous claims like that around. And claims such as TDKR would have been slammed if it was the second instalment are just as ridiculous. ESPECIALLY since the whole plot would have been different.

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Old 07-20-2013, 02:52 AM   #499
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

The Avengers I still feel is a bland movie and one of the most overrated CBMs. TDKR by far.

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Old 07-22-2013, 11:24 PM   #500
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Default Re: The Avengers vs The Dark Knight Rises - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Stark View Post
You don't prove an opinion, and my opinion happens to be shared by others. Your non-sequitor of TDK being good only because of the joker non-withstanding, or other 3rd movie failures.

TDKR IMO is the most overrated comic book movie out there. Some of the moments are seriously LOL hilarious. Look at the end fight with Bane and watch the background police officers fighting Bane's minions, it's seriously laughably bad, but the focus is on Band and Batman so most people don't notice. The plot lines are all over the place and lead no where. Catwoman is pretty much an afterthought.

This is an opinion thread, and that is mine. What I state about Avengers being the film of 2012 is not "provable" as it's an opinion, but there's a lot of evidence to back it up.
And as I have pointed out, there is just as much evidence backing up TDKR. Thats why I don't think you can say one or the other is the film of 2012. Sure, it can be YOUR film of 2012, but its too close to call if you're trying to look at overall reception of the films without personal opinion involved. There isn't much case for any other film than these two, but these two are way too damn close. 2008 was TDK. 2009 was Avatar(which I hated). 2010 was Inception. 2011 was Harry Potter(which I hated). 2012 has got to be a tie IMO.

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