Your top 5 things that needs to be "fixed" for the Batman reboot

[regwec]

Some of BTAS was "fun", but some of it was pretty dark, albeit within the constraints of a cartoon aimed at kids. Batman depends on a genuine sense of threat, I think. Some villains do okay without that, like The Riddler, but you need to know that The Joker might be about to bite someone's ear off, even when he is being witty and relatively charming. Added to that is that fact that, underneath it all, Bruce Wayne is deeply dysfunctional.

I agree that the next movie should be "fun" as opposed to "boring", but doubt it should be that kind of frothy, feel-good "fun" exhibited by certain other movie franchises that shall not be named.

[EssayM]

Moving on, I would like to see Harvey Dent as someone Bruce has known since childhood, a close friend and trusted ally. Maybe have him as a good guy in the first movie and then gradually have him start showing his psychological scars and personal demons like in TAS, so that when he finally turns, it really feels like someone we knew and cared about being torn away from us. Perhaps have it play into the Joker's "one bad day" theory somehow.

[hafizbat]

I'd like to add that Hathaway's Selina Kyle brought some fun to TDKR that was not seen in TDK. So it is possible to be both dark and fun.

[shauner111]

I don't think we need to see another Harvey Dent into Two-Face story. They need to do things on screen that not only Nolan never did, but the others as well (Burton, Shumacher).

If Two-Face is in this (he should at least be referenced), he should have a small cameo type role where he's in a cell in Arkham as Two-Face already. Flipping his coin in a trance, as somebody who cant even make a normal decision without leaving it to chance.

[EssayM]

Originally Posted by regwec

Some of BTAS was "fun", but some of it was pretty dark, albeit within the constraints of a cartoon aimed at kids. Batman depends on a genuine sense of threat, I think. Some villains do okay without that, like The Riddler, but you need to know that The Joker might be about to bite someone's ear off, even when he is being witty and relatively charming. Added to that is that fact that, underneath it all, Bruce Wayne is deeply dysfunctional.

I agree that the next movie should be "fun" as opposed to "boring", but doubt it should be that kind of frothy, feel-good "fun" exhibited by certain other movie franchises that shall not be named.

I guess by "fun", I was referring to the more cartoony and surreal aspects of TAS. Let's face it, Bob Kane wrote humor and gag strips before he got famous, and a lot of the characters and concepts he created for the Batman universe reflect that. That's not to say all the murder and revenge and heartbreak should be ignored, or even that it shouldn't be taken seriously, but that the larger-than-life characters and designs are as much a part of the series' appeal as the dark stuff. The villains should be genuine threats, but they don't have to all be serial killers and terrorists; they can still have exaggerated looks and personalities like they do in the cartoons and comics.

Also, just as an aside, I don't know if I would call Bruce Wayne "dysfunctional". I mean, yeah, he has his childhood traumas and personal demons, but I've always seen Batman as something he does because he sees it as his purpose in life, as his way of making the world a slightly better place than it was yesterday. It's not some burden that he has to live with, it's who he is and what he chose to do with his life. That's one of the things I liked about BF, the idea that he became Batman "not because I have to be, but because I choose to be." I'm really tired of writers painting Batman's job as a "curse" that he's just waiting for the day to shuffle off. Bulls***! Why should he resent using his means and skills to help his fellow man? He chose to do it, and it's that choice that defines him. I just think he works a lot better as a flawed but virtuous character rather than the pathetic character some writers try to make him.

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by hafizbat

I'd like to add that Hathaway's Selina Kyle brought some fun to TDKR that was not seen in TDK. So it is possible to be both dark and fun.

The Joker brought the dark fun to TDK. The Bruce Wayne playboy stuff was always a good laugh, too, in all three movies.

[EssayM]

Originally Posted by shauner111

I don't think we need to see another Harvey Dent into Two-Face story. They need to do things on screen that not only Nolan never did, but the others as well (Burton, Shumacher).

If Two-Face is in this (he should at least be referenced), he should have a small cameo type role where he's in a cell in Arkham as Two-Face already. Flipping his coin in a trance, as somebody who cant even make a normal decision without leaving it to chance.

By that logic, The Joker, Gordon, Alfred, even Batman himself shouldn't be in the movie. Just because the other movies already had him doesn't mean this new film can't have a different take on it and make it fresh. I mean, you have to admit, Two-Face's turn in TDK was kind of weak.

[regwec]

It was weak, but it isn't interesting to see origins stories all of the time. I am all for seeing Two Face again, but I would like to see him doing something other than getting his face burned up.

[shauner111]

Originally Posted by EssayM

By that logic, The Joker, Gordon, Alfred, even Batman himself shouldn't be in the movie. Just because the other movies already had him doesn't mean this new film can't have a different take on it and make it fresh. I mean, you have to admit, Two-Face's turn in TDK was kind of weak.

His turn from Harvey to Two-Face was extremely strong. Everyone of course wanted him to last longer as a villain, but his turn?? Absolutely amazing. Eckhart nailed it.

What I mean is, certain stories don't need to be told over again. Especially so soon after these Nolan movies. It's only been 5 years since Dent became Two-Face on the big screen in a billion dollar movie. Harvey Dent's legacy was also a big part of last years Batman movie. We don't need to see his origin for a couple of decades. You can still have Two-Face in this new series but he should be Two-Face already, and it shouldn't be so soon, not the next movie.

It's like Joker. We don't need to see a third Bat film where Batman is meeting the Joker for the first time. You cant do that any better. So you look for new ways. Use Harley Quinn as his "sidekick". A Young Joker who is only a few years older than what Ledger was when filming but definitely way younger than Nicholsons. Perma-white, short hair but a Joker that is his own thing in terms of personality. Have him in Arkham already. He's already met Batman off screen. So the first time the audience sees these new actors together in the same room, theres a familiarity between them already.

For the next few films (or more) they need to stay away from Ras, Talia, Bane, the League of Assassins.

You get my point? They need to bring new stories, new twists, new characters into this reboot. It's called a reinvention for a reason. Just like how Nolan's movies were a 180 from the Shumacher's. There were no sidekicks, no campy humor over-done, more grounded, different rogues. Even Bane and Two-Face were done in a opposite way in terms of story and characterization. In Forever the focus was mainly on Two-Face the villain and he was more campy. In TDK the focus was on Harvey Dent the good man, and when he turned it was darker and serious. They've exhausted the possibilities for the time being. We need a huge break from Two-Face (nothing more than a cameo) and when the times comes to bring him back full swing? He can Two-Face already in his 40s, dark hair, in a completely different story and world.

[EssayM]

Good point, but I'm still for making him and Bruce childhood friends who knew each other all their lives. It makes for much more dramatic potential between the two, and could also lend to some intrigue with someone on the bad guy's side knowing so much about Bruce.

[shauner111]

Yeah, the next time we see him I would do the same. But there's no need to show it cuz like I said, I don't really want to see the origin. But as Two-Face they can reference their past and how long they've known each other. Bruce can mention something to Alfred about how tragic it is because of it.

[hafizbat]

I love Two-Face, probably my favorite Bat-villain. How would you guys use him as an actual full-fledged villain in the reboot? I agree with those who say seeing his origin again is unnecessary; I'd like to see him as the fully developed sinister villain.

There are people who say Two-Face is actually a one trick pony, that only his origin story is interesting and after that he becomes a silly gimmick villain. One of the ways this was solved was by making Dent a twisted crusader, executing people he felt were guilty. But this has been done in TDK... I also feel he can be more than just a regular mob boss who loves duality, like he is sometimes portrayed.

I'd love to hear some ideas of how to actually use him as a main villain, without the origin story or revenge story. I really don't want him to just be a cameo or side villain just because they don't know how to use him. I loved the Arkham City game but hated how they hyped up Two-Face so much only to have him in one small scene with Batman.

In my opinion he is fully capable of carrying a Batman film as the lead villain, despite what some people say.

[The Batman]

I want to see things like this in regards to Bruce's detecting skills. I don't care, I want a Batman who could see someone like Miranda Tate coming from a mile away.

[EssayM]

Agreed. They had him duped waay too many times in TDKT.

[Gianakin_]

I didn't know dark, serious and fun were mutually exclusive. Glad tthese boards educated me once more.

[EssayM]

Originally Posted by shauner111

His turn from Harvey to Two-Face was extremely strong. Everyone of course wanted him to last longer as a villain, but his turn?? Absolutely amazing. Eckhart nailed it.

Eh, I don't know about that. He had some good lines and the makeup looked cool, but as a character, I found him a little bland in comparison to other incarnations of the character. Like in TAS, they established him as a likeable, normal guy, then gradually revealed some of the inner demons he was battling, and gradually upped the pressure on him from Thorne and everything else until it made sense for him snap under all of it.

In TDK, they built Harvey up as a blond, square-jawed SAINT who can do no wrong and has no flaws (him threatening the decoy cop was understandable under the circumstances), to the point where I found him a bit punchable. And then there was the way they transformed him; besides the fact that it felt like a cheap way to make people give a damn about Rachel Dawes (would you even remember her name if she hadn't died?), his agreement with the psycho that killed his girlfriend happens so quickly that I feel like Harvey either a) is an easily-led moron, or b) was a jerk all along and thus does not deserve my sympathy.

Because of all this, I didn't find him nearly as engaging as the Two-Face in the comics and cartoons. Eckhart did a good job, it just wasn't a very well-written character arc.