Discussion: The Economy, Fiscal Cliff, National Debt, And Other Financial Issues III

[SV Fan]

Originally Posted by Destructus86

Oh man, I REALLY hope Obamacare gets sunk soon...I'm not sure the country could handle that disaster.

I am fairly certain their was people screaming how social security, medicare and civil rights would sink the country as well when all of them happened.

[Destructus86]

Originally Posted by SV Fan

I am fairly certain their was people screaming how social security, medicare and civil rights would sink the country as well when all of them happened.

Yes, but those were no where near as poorly designed as Obamacare.

[SV Fan]

Originally Posted by Destructus86

Yes, but those were no where near as poorly designed as Obamacare.

Here is an idea instead of doing something pointless that will go nowhere like repealing Obamacare 40 times, do something productive like try make changes to the system to make it work better

[hippie_hunter]

Originally Posted by SV Fan

Here is an idea instead of doing something pointless that will go nowhere like repealing Obamacare 40 times, do something productive like try make changes to the system to make it work better

I don't see that happening. Obama and the Democrats seem like they're too stubborn to change Obamacare even though they're realizing that it's a horribly written law and the GOP is never going to want to work with the Democrats on health care after they completely got shoved to the side last time. Two sides are completely unwilling to work to make the system better for absolutely petty reasons even though it's blatantly obvious that it's needed.

[Kelly]

Sooooo????? is that a 50/50 split on the blame?????

[enterthemadness]

Get Out. Of. Detroit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...in-us-history/


Detroit files for largest city bankruptcy ever.

[Handsome Rob]

Originally Posted by enterthemadness

Get Out. Of. Detroit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...in-us-history/


Detroit files for largest city bankruptcy ever.

Decades of progressive/liberal rule brought to fruition . . .

[SV Fan]

Originally Posted by hippie_hunter

I don't see that happening. Obama and the Democrats seem like they're too stubborn to change Obamacare even though they're realizing that it's a horribly written law and the GOP is never going to want to work with the Democrats on health care after they completely got shoved to the side last time. Two sides are completely unwilling to work to make the system better for absolutely petty reasons even though it's blatantly obvious that it's needed.

Still instead of trying to repeal it 40 times they could act like they are trying to be productive and put out a cynical bill(one they don't expect to be accepted) to try fix the issues. Instead it just seems like they(the Republican party in general at both the Federal and State level) are going out of their way to try make Obamacare fail

[Destructus86]

It's all the Illuminati's fault!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





sorry...I couldn't type that with a straight face

[Spider - Man]

Originally Posted by enterthemadness

Get Out. Of. Detroit.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...in-us-history/


Detroit files for largest city bankruptcy ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Su5mjQSaE

[Destructus86]

So, I was working on my budget today and I make roughly $2,400 (original post was wrong, this is the right amount) a month. You would think that would be an alright amount and I would be living a little comfortably at least.

Nope...not at all. I am living pay check to pay check, making it to the next paycheck by the skin of my teeth. And it's not like i'm spending crazy. $900 a month for house, one car payment and the usual expenses like internet, food, power, etc...

More and more i'm seeing the middle class die out.

[mikey1974]

Originally Posted by Destructus86

So, I was working on my budget today and I make roughly $2,400 (original post was wrong, this is the right amount) a month. You would think that would be an alright amount and I would be living a little comfortably at least.

Nope...not at all. I am living pay check to pay check, making it to the next paycheck by the skin of my teeth. And it's not like i'm spending crazy. $900 a month for house, one car payment and the usual expenses like internet, food, power, etc...

More and more i'm seeing the middle class die out.

between my wife an I,we take home (not make gross,mind you,but take home) about $4,800 a month. again,living the high life,right? nope!

$1,500 - Student loans
$850 - Mortgage
$700 - Health insurance
$200 - Car Insurance
$150 - Power
$150 - Cable,phone,internet ( all through the cable company)
$100 - Water
$200 - Gas ( natural gas for the house)
$100 - Sewer and Garbage
$200 - Gas ( for the cars. my wife's workplace is about 40 minutes away)
$500 - Groceries ( roughly. there's 2 adults and 2 kids here. we spend about $250 every 2 weeks)
$250 - Car payment


totals about $4,900 in bills per month. some are flexible,i.e. the grocery bill,or if we use less water or electricity. but that's roughly it. so we have about $100 a month in extra money . and if the car breaks down or something,well,there it goes!can't wait til my insurance premium or taxes go up again.should be noted that I have $250 LESS a month than I did 2 years ago ( as health insurance kept going up ) and my wife makes $400 less a month than she did a year ago as she had to get a new job. so,yeah,Obama. i really can't afford to pay for your Obamacare plan.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by mikey1974

between my wife an I,we take home (not make gross,mind you,but take home) about $4,800 a month. again,living the high life,right? nope!

$1,500 - Student loans
$850 - Mortgage
$700 - Health insurance
$200 - Car Insurance
$150 - Power
$150 - Cable,phone,internet ( all through the cable company)
$100 - Water
$200 - Gas ( natural gas for the house)
$100 - Sewer and Garbage
$200 - Gas ( for the cars. my wife's workplace is about 40 minutes away)
$500 - Groceries ( roughly. there's 2 adults and 2 kids here. we spend about $250 every 2 weeks)
$250 - Car payment


totals about $4,900 in bills per month. some are flexible,i.e. the grocery bill,or if we use less water or electricity. but that's roughly it. so we have about $100 a month in extra money . and if the car breaks down or something,well,there it goes!can't wait til my insurance premium or taxes go up again.should be noted that I have $250 LESS a month than I did 2 years ago ( as health insurance kept going up ) and my wife makes $400 less a month than she did a year ago as she had to get a new job. so,yeah,Obama. i really can't afford to pay for your Obamacare plan.

Ok wait a minute, you bring in $4,800 a month, but your bills total $4,900 a month so you have about $100 a month in extra money????

[mikey1974]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Ok wait a minute, you bring in $4,800 a month, but your bills total $4,900 a month so you have about $100 a month in extra money????

LOL! yeah,i counted wrong there!

but,roughly,we have around $100 - $150 a month in extra money out of around $4800 brought in.some bills vary from month to month,but that's about right.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by mikey1974

LOL! yeah,i counted wrong there!

but,roughly,we have around $100 - $150 a month in extra money out of around $4800 brought in.some bills vary from month to month,but that's about right.

Do you both have College degrees? I see that you have college loans up there....if you don't mind me asking, I know that is personal stuff.

[mikey1974]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Do you both have College degrees? I see that you have college loans up there....if you don't mind me asking, I know that is personal stuff.

I don't,my wife does.she had to get 3 different degrees over the years to become a Nurse Practitioner. the 3 loans,for those 3 degrees,total around $200,000, at a cost of about $1,500 a month ( the one loan by itself is $900 a month - more than our mortgage! other 2 are $300 a month each).

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by mikey1974

I don't,my wife does.she had to get 3 different degrees over the years to become a Nurse Practitioner. the 3 loans,for those 3 degrees,total around $200,000, at a cost of about $1,500 a month ( the one loan by itself is $900 a month - more than our mortgage! other 2 are $300 a month each).

Dang....

[mikey1974]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Dang....

yeah...like i said,you're left with 2 options in the world today:

1) don't go to school,and make crappy wages and be borderline poor..

or

2) go to school,but have to pay expensive student loans to get a well-paying job,but the loan payments wipe-out a lot of what you make,making you borderline poor...

so,basically,we're all either gonna be super-rich,or poor. no middle class anymore.

[Figs]

Originally Posted by Destructus86

So, I was working on my budget today and I make roughly $2,400 (original post was wrong, this is the right amount) a month. You would think that would be an alright amount and I would be living a little comfortably at least.

Nope...not at all. I am living pay check to pay check, making it to the next paycheck by the skin of my teeth. And it's not like i'm spending crazy. $900 a month for house, one car payment and the usual expenses like internet, food, power, etc...

More and more i'm seeing the middle class die out.

Please tell me you have a kid or two to take care of and feed.

If not, I can't take your post seriously. Your mortgage/rent is only $900 a month and you make over $2000 a month. Not sure where you live but if you're making that much and your rent is that low I can definitely rule out CA as the place where you live. I have what would be considered a fairly good job for someone that is part of the middle class. I make about 2200 a month. You know how much a ****** one bedroom apartment in my area goes for...$1300-1600 a month. Making a little more than me and having such a low amount of rent, you shouldn't be complaining. I also have a car payment as well.


I came into this thread to post this though.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/29/news...html?hpt=hp_t3

These people are fools. Increasing minimum wage by that much is not good for the middle class at all. Minimum wage going up can drive the cost of goods up. Not only will that piss me off but also the fact that if this happens I'll only be making $2.00 more than someone in fast food. ********. That much of an increase in pay for wiping tables and flipping burgers...my mistake, I meant putting frozen patties in a god damn microwave.

[OstrichsRevenge]

Some ghettos in the States look like third world countries. This should be unacceptable for any level of government. The countries that do it the best seem to be in Europe. One only has to Google which countries are the happiest with the highest quality of life to see that they're European countries. Obamacare clearly has it's problems, but I agree with SV Fan. People should be working together for a solution, not trying to beat a bill down to prove the other side is stupid. Moving towards more socialist policies (as long as they're done correctly) will be better for the country.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by mikey1974

yeah...like i said,you're left with 2 options in the world today:

1) don't go to school,and make crappy wages and be borderline poor..

or

2) go to school,but have to pay expensive student loans to get a well-paying job,but the loan payments wipe-out a lot of what you make,making you borderline poor...

so,basically,we're all either gonna be super-rich,or poor. no middle class anymore.

Hmmmm....I don't know. I think people really need to look at the colleges they are choosing to go to...

I went to a very good College, usually in the top 20 for "Bang For Your Buck" Colleges in Forbes Magazine. I worked around 30 hours a week, took 12 hours per semester (considered full time), and I did short term loans with the College (almost all colleges have these) where I paid a small amount at registration for classes, and then I had the semester to pay out the rest in 4 payments. I bought used books, or didn't buy the book if I heard that the professor did not use them, cheap school supplies and I ended up with no loans to pay back. I'm not sure that you had those options, but I think that kids these days, not necessarily you, but many need to REALLY look at the schools and shop around. I have an ex-student that just had to go to University of Texas, she is now a teacher teaching World Geography and she has a butt load of loans to pay back. Had she simply gone to the University of Houston, lived at home, she would have the same job...and no loans.

[Kelly]

Originally Posted by OstrichsRevenge

Some ghettos in the States look like third world countries. This should be unacceptable for any level of government. The countries that do it the best seem to be in Europe. One only has to Google which countries are the happiest with the highest quality of life to see that they're European countries. Obamacare clearly has it's problems, but I agree with SV Fan. People should be working together for a solution, not trying to beat a bill down to prove the other side is stupid. Moving towards more socialist policies (as long as they're done correctly) will be better for the country.

Have you ever been to a less developed country????

As far as comparing the US with European countries, you are comparing apples and oranges which has been explained around here quite a bit. You are comparing us to countries that have not even 1/3 of our population. We are in the top 10 countries in GDP Per Capita at anywhere from #7 to #9 depending on if you are looking at the WB, IMF, or CIA numbers... in those top 10, none of them have more than 3 European countries in the top 10, and none of your larger European countries are in the top 10 with the US.

Norway, Luxembourg, and Switzerland are in all 3...Liechtenstein is in the CIA's numbers no others...so I really don't know what you are talking about, comparing us to those countries is, as I said, apples and oranges.

[OstrichsRevenge]

Originally Posted by Kelly

Have you ever been to a less developed country????

As far as comparing the US with European countries, you are comparing apples and oranges which has been explained around here quite a bit. You are comparing us to countries that have not even 1/3 of our population. We are in the top 10 countries in GDP Per Capita at anywhere from #7 to #9 depending on if you are looking at the WB, IMF, or CIA numbers... in those top 10, none of them have more than 3 European countries in the top 10, and none of your larger European countries are in the top 10 with the US.

Norway, Luxembourg, and Switzerland are in all 3...Liechtenstein is in the CIA's numbers no others...so I really don't know what you are talking about, comparing us to those countries is, as I said, apples and oranges.

For your GDP argument, after a little research, the country at the top of the GDP list is Qatar (a country that is ruled by Sharia Law). Since the standard of living is related to the GDP and since the quality of life is related to the standard of living, this would, logically, put Qatar at the top of the list for the highest quality of life. But it's not. Why? Because linking GDP with quality of life is spurious at best. It's not a measure of personal income, its a measure of economic activity of a nation (which are not the same thing). So GDP may go up while personal income goes down. The rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. So, no, it's not apples and oranges. It's a green apple vs. a red apple.

The European countries at the top of the quality of life list have better policies in place in their countries. They pay higher taxes, sure, but they're attitudes and behaviours are what count. These people and their governments are about the collective good, not the individual ego. They may not own luxury yachts, but they're comfortable and well taken care of. It's the attitude that socialism = communism in the States that hurts them. They won't allow any bills to pass that sound socialist. The US form of capitalism is toxic.

[Kelly]

I'm thinking that you are exactly where you should be in your igloo in Canada.... : )

Telling us how we need to live our lives here, isn't really needed. Thanks I'm happy being an individual.

[wiegeabo]

What's toxic about US capitalism is that it's not capitalism, but they still call it such.

Yet, they've created a very anti-competitive marketplace. Making it impossible to break into an industry, hard to afford to survive if small, and don't allow big companies to fail under the claim of being 'too big to fail', which is what helps create the 'too big to fail' situation. (Why be smart with the company's money and business practices if you know the government is just going to bail you out anyway?)