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Old 07-21-2013, 08:38 PM   #626
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

Marvel movie quotes
X2
"What r u professor of?"
Wolverine: "Art"

And I'm sure there were memorable Avengers quotes that I just can't remember.
Ummm...." U people r so petty...and tiny".

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:40 PM   #627
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

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Does any Marvel film have any memorable quotes. I don't think so. I think Goyer is good. Maybe nor the best. But he's good.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:41 PM   #628
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Marvel movie quotes
X2
"What r u professor of?"
Wolverine: "Art"

And I'm sure there were memorable Avengers quotes that I just can't remember.
Ummm...." U people r so petty...and tiny".
Take all of that away and what are you?

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:41 PM   #629
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I just posted the question prior to that.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:52 PM   #630
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

It's good to know that the original MOS cast members (with exception to those who perished or got booted to the Phantom Zone) will all be returning in the new film. Some have been saying it's not a sequel; others are claiming it is. The more I think about it, though, I feel like we're getting a hybrid of sorts if that makes any sense.

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:56 PM   #631
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

It's a hybrid, there is no real way you can call it a "MOS 2" sequel with a Batman in it, especially with how it was hyped up in comic con.

Batman will be in the title, it's almost 100% certain if they want the biggest financial draw and GA awareness.

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Old 07-21-2013, 09:01 PM   #632
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

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I would say more than a few. The script was a mess, and it completely fumbled Clark's character arc and journey over the course of the movie, which was the most important part IMO, and they failed. That's why I'm personally not excited for this new one, because of the immense letdown that MOS was. It's hard for me to get excited about any future DC movies now, because it seems like Goyer is going to be all over them, with possible input from Snyder on scripts/stories. This is the third year in a row of huge letdowns from WB/DC for me, so now I can't get excited for future stuff from them.
Other than pacing, the biggest problem I think it has is the lack of a second act. Starting with Zod's invasion, things just jump all over the place. We never get to see the world's full reaction to Superman (only the military's), the supporting cast do much (other than Lois), Clark gets over Zod's death pretty quick, etc. It also did a horrendous job with Clark's secret identity.

I think the story, pacing, and character development had some problems. However, I thought the acting, characterization of Superman + the rest of the characters, the themes + messages, and the action was fantastic. The three flaws I brought up were not too terrible for the first film IMO but there is no way that future films can have those problems and it looks like they will with not only Goyer being let loose by himself again but with Snyder joining in as a co-writer.

Also, future DC movies need a brighter color palette. The film looked way too dim/moody most of the time.

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Old 07-21-2013, 09:07 PM   #633
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

I think Supes had better character development than Thor in his movie, but not as good as Tony in Ironman, that just might be did to the fact that it was Robert playing him. I've heard people say Henry needs to be given more lines but I feel that once Clark's second act started he spoke often; it's just the beginning where he is silent.

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Old 07-21-2013, 09:17 PM   #634
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I don't think Superman had bad character development. I thought he had plenty of good development. However, it was no fantastic character development in the first place. I believe there was a bit more room there for Supes. I also think the supporting cast had a lot more problems when it came to that aspect.

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Old 07-21-2013, 09:34 PM   #635
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

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Other than pacing, the biggest problem I think it has is the lack of a second act. Starting with Zod's invasion, things just jump all over the place. We never get to see the world's full reaction to Superman (only the military's), the supporting cast do much (other than Lois), Clark gets over Zod's death pretty quick, etc. It also did a horrendous job with Clark's secret identity.

I think the story, pacing, and character development had some problems. However, I thought the acting, characterization of Superman + the rest of the characters, the themes + messages, and the action was fantastic. The three flaws I brought up were not too terrible for the first film IMO but there is no way that future films can have those problems and it looks like they will with not only Goyer being let loose by himself again but with Snyder joining in as a co-writer.

Also, future DC movies need a brighter color palette. The film looked way too dim/moody most of the time.
I thought that as soon as the movie shifted to Earth the story was all over the place. The flashbacks start and they're not integrated well and just disrupt the flow of the movie, while not really doing much for the character's development. The problems you listed I agree with also.

However, I disagree that the themes/messages were handled well. I can respect the fact that the movie is attempting to deal with ambitious ideas, but that is also the problem. It tries to delve into too many different things, like our response to the existence of alien life, Clark's choice to become Superman, what it means to be Superman, how he deals with his own kind, etc. It tries to do all of these things at once, and, as a result, they all suffer from lack of development, and Clark's character arc especially suffers because of it, which is a shame. You'll get no argument from me about the action, and I thought the acting was at least fine from everyone, but all of that only satisfied me for a couple hours after I first saw the movie. Once the awe-factor wore off, I noticed the critical issues with the movie and that really killed it for me.

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I think Supes had better character development than Thor in his movie, but not as good as Tony in Ironman, that just might be did to the fact that it was Robert playing him.
Agreed. Iron Man is one of the best origin movies because Tony's character arc is very well handled and realized. I think it's more than just RDJ, though he does certainly help. Tony just has a very clear journey over the course of the movie and it's clearly the main focus, whereas in MOS Clark's journey is one of many aspects of the story and it suffers as a result.

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Old 07-21-2013, 09:38 PM   #636
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

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I don't think Superman had bad character development. I thought he had plenty of good development. However, it was no fantastic character development in the first place. I believe there was a bit more room there for Supes. I also think the supporting cast had a lot more problems when it came to that aspect.
Superman had a fantastic character development.... at level of batman begins.. superior to other films... the cast was one of the best things on the movie... MOS WAS GREAT!!!!

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Old 07-21-2013, 09:42 PM   #637
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

We missed out on all those scenes where the camera zooms in and fades though numerous news paper articles with titles such as "Superman arrives" "Man or alien" and then the obligatory sound bite interviews....

Classic stuff there, but without it, some might feel something lacking.
imo.
lame but true.

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Old 07-21-2013, 10:08 PM   #638
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

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I think DC and WB could still get their **** together. I kind of agree with ConnorKon-El above that including Batman in the film could increase profit but it might at the cost of a good story. I think a better plan would be to shoot MoS2 and World's Finest back to back and have MoS2 released in summer and have World's Finest released either fall/winter or the next year.

Either way they have got to remove Goyer/Snyder from writing duties or add another better writer to the team. Goyer is an average writer but pair him with a terribly subpar one and the movie will flop.
I was thinking about this too. Have them back to back, Jackson style. It's the fastest and most affordable way to this.

And where is Wonder Woman!!?! ...sorry, can't help but feel batman is pushing everyone out of the way... If WW were marvels shed have her own successful trilogy by now

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Old 07-21-2013, 10:33 PM   #639
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Default Re: LA Times is reporting that WB will announce World's Finest movie for 2015 - Part

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The general audience generally liked it for the most part. It was only a flop critically, and I have my own theories as to why that was the case (mainly critics having nostalgic ties to what they believe is Superman and not believing that a Superman story could have more of a serious tone).

MOS had a few story and pacing problems but acting, characterization of the characters, and the meaning/message behind Superman were by no means problems. All of those things were spot on. That being said, I am worried about the story and pacing in the film since not only is Goyer being let loose by himself again but Snyder is joining him as a co-writer.
Co-writer in terms of cooking up the story, not co-writing the actual screenplay himself.

Look, it would help if they got someone else other than Goyer, because truthfully, Snyder is only as good as the script he works with, and Goyer isn't the greatest writer in the world (case in point, MOS's screenplay) The execution is what needs to be better. I'm excited for what he comes up with, but I'm not expecting a very well executed screenplay. Maybe he could surprise us because he knows Batman and can make it work, but this movie would be helped if they got rid of Goyer.

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Old 07-22-2013, 01:25 AM   #640
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Other than pacing, the biggest problem I think it has is the lack of a second act. Starting with Zod's invasion, things just jump all over the place. We never get to see the world's full reaction to Superman (only the military's), the supporting cast do much (other than Lois), Clark gets over Zod's death pretty quick, etc. It also did a horrendous job with Clark's secret identity.
This.

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Old 07-22-2013, 01:25 AM   #641
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Clark saves countless lives by diverting the nuke but Bruce chastises him because Superman could have prevented the whole thing had he been acting in the authority that he has, if he had stood up to the worldly authority like Batman did and get things done. It's reasonable that Superman would work for the government within the context of the setting but it still dilutes him and causes other problems, like the ones you mention. Earlier Bruce is quoted as saying that they, meaning the superheroes, have to be criminals because what they do is outside the law and technically against it. Bruce is criticizing Clark working for the government.
Yeah I get what you mean

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^ Mark Waid knows how to do a darker Superman that's devoid of warmth, and still have an element of tragedy to him. KC is amazing
My favourite story of all-time

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:33 PM   #642
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They might do a time skip, so Superman may be Superman after all.
Or they might not actually bring Batman in until near the end of MOS2. All we know is Batman will be somewhere, nothing more.

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:38 PM   #643
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This is a follow up to MoS and the first Batman movie.

I don't see the problem.

Who says this movie won't give us Superman character development?

Introducing Batman is a logical/interesting next step to Clark's story imo.
If Superman exists in the same universe as Batman's Gotham, could he actually justify not going there and fighting crime? Even if he does justify it, as long as Batman clearly exists he has to recognize it on some level.

On the other hand, if Batman exists in the same universe as Superman, does it make sense for them to not interact? Would it be realistic to not have them interact on film if they both exist?

It might seem nicer, but does it work with realism?

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:45 PM   #644
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All that remains to establish Superman as hero in eyes of Metropolis citizens is to show him helping people and smiling, earning their trust, which can be shown in this movie.
Actually, it can be the opening scenes of the film. Even if done impressively, it will not carry the film.

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Old 07-22-2013, 03:38 PM   #645
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Or they might not actually bring Batman in until near the end of MOS2. All we know is Batman will be somewhere, nothing more.
They're not gonna bring Batman in for a cameo, his names gonna be used to market the hell out if this movie.

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Old 07-22-2013, 04:19 PM   #646
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I haven't seen Man of Steel yet (some personal stuff kinda prevented me from seeing it so it looks like Blu-Ray for me) and have heard complaints in regards to Superman and accidentally stumbled upon some spoilers about the film that make me uneasy but I agree, the Miller version of Supes would be awful to see! Although there is some great imagery Miller's version wasn't true to the character at the core.
It's a great film, and still in theaters. Many of the claims by the critics are more reaction to it not doing what they think Superman films should do, than a fair assessment of what the film really does.

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Old 07-22-2013, 04:29 PM   #647
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How many Superman movies have been made ? Six.

STM, Superman 2, Superman 3, Superman 4, Superman Returns and Man of Steel.

(Not to mention TV series like Superboy, Lois and Clark, Smallville)

How many Batman movies have been made ?

Batman, Batman returns, Batman forever, Batman and Robin, Batman begins, The Dark Knight, The Dark knight Rises. Seven.

(And Adam west TV series.)

And some of You think that getting a Batman / Superman movie is too early ?
We can even dig up more Superman serials, TV shows etc. if we move further back in time.

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Old 07-22-2013, 04:45 PM   #648
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Half of Metropolis was NOT destroyed, more like several city blocks (98% percent of the city is undamaged). Superman killed someone to saves lives, that does NOT make him a murderer. However, Batman may not see it that way.
No one who analyses the situation that Clark was in would call it murder. It is a killing in the course of war.

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Old 07-22-2013, 05:02 PM   #649
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This. But probably more Superman centric. This is Man of Steel 2 and Batman is one of the characters just like Lois Lane is one of the characters.
Lois is not "one of the characters", she is the only other character besides Clark Kent who has been around since the very first comic appearance of Superman, ever. If you had compared Batman to Perry, I would be OK. However Lois is not "one of the characters", she is second only to SM in the importance of the story, and even her being second is questionable.

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Old 07-22-2013, 05:24 PM   #650
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It's a hybrid, there is no real way you can call it a "MOS 2" sequel with a Batman in it, especially with how it was hyped up in comic con.

Batman will be in the title, it's almost 100% certain if they want the biggest financial draw and GA awareness.
How they hype it at a convention of comics fans and how the film actually turns out are two different things.

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