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Old 07-22-2013, 02:44 PM   #101
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Originally Posted by GremlinZilla89 View Post
It's not standards. It's a checklist you all make in your heads on what comic book films can and can't do. When all you do is dictate what a film should be all throughout its production you set yourself up for disappointment. You people have no idea how it will play out. The movie was literally just titled a day ago and people are already saying they are ruining the characters.
By all means, discuss. Be a little wary even, but fandom as a whole has degraded into people sitting behind their computers scrutinized every move these people do and crying :"NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! YOU ALL SUCK!!!! DO THIS NOT THAT!!!!"
I think detractors have given valid reasons why they want the Ultron's origin to be loyal to the source material.

I've even acknowledged it depends on execution rather than scream ”YOU ALL SUCK”.

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:47 PM   #102
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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I think detractors have given valid reasons why they want the Ultron's origin to be loyal to the source material.

I've even acknowledged it depends on execution rather than scream ”YOU ALL SUCK”.
Yeah. I have yet to see someone say anything sucks.

Last night I plainly said the decision was retarded. Didn't even say I won't be seeing it, or loving it for that matter. And I'll gladly go down as "that guy" who freaked out the worst.

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:47 PM   #103
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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and whats the only thing worse than *****ing and moaning about superhero movies on a superhero movie forum? *****ing and moaning about people *****ing and moaning about superhero movies.
That is a weak, circular argument. So it's ok for people to moan about ***** they know nothing about, but it's not ok for someone to counter that with their own opinion on the matter? At least try and come up with a counterpoint instead of acting like a child and saying "B-b-but you're complaining tooo!"

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:49 PM   #104
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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You should be grateful Marvel has the balls to be so ambitious with these films in the first place. You should be grateful comic book films are popular and reaching people of all ages. You should be grateful that these characters are getting their due on screen, a whole new visual medium. But no. Instead of being grateful all you people do is ***** and moan about every little detail that comes along.

I'm not saying you have to love every CBM that comes out of the gate. But be grateful they are getting made by people who CARE about them and want to tell good stories and that many of them ARE good and do the characters justice.
We are gratefull but as fans it's our duty to demand above average adaptations of classic comic characters.

If we don't care, no one will.

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:51 PM   #105
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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That is a weak, circular argument. So it's ok for people to moan about ***** they know nothing about, but it's not ok for someone to counter that with their own opinion on the matter? At least try and come up with a counterpoint instead of acting like a child and saying "B-b-but you're complaining tooo!"
Who says I want to argue with you? lol. I'm pretty sure I just wanted you to stop saying things altogether.

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Old 07-22-2013, 02:52 PM   #106
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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We are gratefull but as fans it's our duty to demand above average adaptations of classic comic characters.

If we don't care, no one will.
And how do you know this won't be above average? Simply because you don't like the early news about its villain?

I love how Nolan can get away with whatever he wants in his Bat films (most of the complaints about Rises were about the films overall structure, not the characters) and they are mostly hailed as the end all be all. But Marvel does it and they are ruining their characters. It's not like TDK was the most faithful CBM adaptation around....

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Old 07-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #107
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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And how do you know this won't be above average? Simply because you don't like the early news about its villain?

I love how Nolan can get away with whatever he wants in his Bat films (most of the complaints about Rises were about the films overall structure, not the characters) and they are mostly hailed as the end all be all. But Marvel does it and they are ruining their characters. It's not like TDK was the most faithful CBM adaptation around....
Nolan draws alot from the comics so it's not like he starts from scratch.

Ultimately any changes Nolan makes are harshly compared to the comics. He needs to put actual effort into his work to win over the fans and everyone is rewarded for these efforts.

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Old 07-22-2013, 06:15 PM   #108
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Nolan's changes actually worked, that is why they are widely accepted. Tony creating Ultron would be fine, and quite frankly, if the filmmaker's only idea for Pym is that he creates Ultron, then they shouldn't adapt him at all, there has to be another interesting way to do Pym.

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Old 07-22-2013, 06:20 PM   #109
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Originally Posted by GremlinZilla89 View Post
It's not standards. It's a checklist you all make in your heads on what comic book films can and can't do. When all you do is dictate what a film should be all throughout its production you set yourself up for disappointment. You people have no idea how it will play out. The movie was literally just titled a day ago and people are already saying they are ruining the characters.
By all means, discuss. Be a little wary even, but fandom as a whole has degraded into people sitting behind their computers scrutinized every move these people do and crying :"NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! YOU ALL SUCK!!!! DO THIS NOT THAT!!!!"
For one, I have only said "You Suck" to one company about a movie and the was Fox for the Crap Doctor Doom THEY thought we should see.
Secondly, SOME compies LISTEN to the fans, so yeah, Speaking your OPINON online can sometimes HELP.

Right now, we can complain and speculate all we want online, since there isn't any places in EVERY town like your local Town Hall to ***** at about Comicbook movies.

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Old 07-22-2013, 06:24 PM   #110
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Originally Posted by GremlinZilla89 View Post
That is a weak, circular argument. So it's ok for people to moan about ***** they know nothing about, but it's not ok for someone to counter that with their own opinion on the matter? At least try and come up with a counterpoint instead of acting like a child and saying "B-b-but you're complaining tooo!"
You're coming close to Flamming Gremlin, you need to ease up

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Old 07-22-2013, 06:27 PM   #111
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I think complaining about fans complaining has become retarded, i have started to notice that those who make fun of fans wanting things closer to the comics are actually less respectful and don't really contribute to the discussion

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Old 07-22-2013, 06:29 PM   #112
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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and whats the only thing worse than *****ing and moaning about superhero movies on a superhero movie forum? *****ing and moaning about people *****ing and moaning about superhero movies.
You too Prox ease up a bit, there are SEVERAL people not happy Hank and Janet aren't in the movies like the Original Comics. I say wait and see what happens, all we know is Hank's not involved with ULTRON and Joss is still rewritting the script

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Old 07-22-2013, 08:20 PM   #113
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They were replaced by two classic Avengers (BW/Hawkeye) who have been on the team for decades. It's not as if they were replaced by scrubs. Natasha and Clint made more sense given how the MCU was built and Feige didn't want to step on Edgar Wright's toes (he's been developing this movie for like eight years).

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Old 07-22-2013, 09:41 PM   #114
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I don't see why they can't have Hank Pym in Avengers 2 create Ultron and then have Ant Man be a spin off film.
why bother when Ultron is unlikely to be part of the story in the Ant-Man spin off? why not just have Hank show up as Giant-Man in the 3rd film (and be a biochemist instead of a roboticist)?

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Old 07-22-2013, 09:50 PM   #115
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This doesn't make much sense from a business or artistic standpoint.

You're taking a major character who is the creator of Ultron and Ant Man and you're dividing him into a weaker character and merging him with an already popular character.

Why not make Ant Man a major player in Marvel Universe for the sake of the franchise and fan-service?
because its Ant-Man. because it's already a hard sell. and because Edgar Wright clearly only wanted to tell one story. he's not franchise building. him creating Ultron was probably the most important story of Pym's life. if he does that in Avengers, what story do you use for the Ant_man movie; keeping in mind that it's instantly inferior? Pym doesn't have a Winter Soldier or Extremis arc to draw from. they aren't going to stretch the journey through Vision into an entire movie. and i'm quite certain that you don't want the Fall of Yellowjacket to be the subject matter of the first Ant-Man movie.

personally, i think they should just let Wright tell his story. it seems to be a one and done. it's not like Marvel will lose the rights to Pym. if they want to tell future stories with the character, they will find some way to make it work.

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Old 07-22-2013, 09:51 PM   #116
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Im not *****ing, but I think it kind of sucks to see classic iconic characters like Hank and Janet Pym get the shaft, while other less interesting characters are utilized.

However I never thought Id see Scarlet Witch, who has always been a favorite of mine, actually make it into a film.

Its a great time to be a fan... I can see how alot of younger fans might not be so annoyed about it with the altered/ultimate, etc universes... but old timers like myself just want to see the source material respected.


Ive been a avid critic of the way Cyclops has been treated in the X films and Im not even a fan of the character. I do respect his place in Xmens history, and just want to see them treated with respect.

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Old 07-22-2013, 09:53 PM   #117
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Maniac,
Ive always felt it was a shame Ant-man wasnt done years ago when it was supposed to be. It actually could have laid the foundation for so much of the Avengers... Hank and Janet Pym, Hawkeye, Ultron and prob even Vision.

Ant-Man really should have been THE prequel film to Avengers. Ive never understand why people feel the character isnt interesting. Ive always thought Ant-Man has the potential to be a really cool sci-fi film.

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:02 PM   #118
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Like Sam was saying, Hank Pym and Janet's whole careers revolve around the Avengers. And if you've read the comics in almost every single iteration Hank and Janet are integral parts of the team.

To basically take Hank Pym and turn him into some old hero from the 60's is just not justice in my book. Hell I wouldn't even mind Wright making Scott Lang the Ant-Man of the MCU as long as he also made Hank Pym Giant-Man of the MCU. And taking away creating Ultron would be like taking away the death of Uncle Ben from Spider-Man. You can not care about Hank Pym all you want but creating Ultron and the subsequent consequences of that are what drive Hank and what makes Hank the hero he is.

And if we get an old 60's only era Hank Pym then that means we'll not get Janet or worse, a Janet that has little connection to Hank and I for one wouldn't want to see these two characters changed so drastically.

I won't judge Avengers AoU until I know more about it and can see it and Ant-Man with my own eyes. It's possible that Whedon and Wright have something planned that'll do justice to all the characters (and God help us I hope they do). But as of now, Whedon and Wright are treading thin territory with me (and this does not negate anything Whedon's done before this).
it should be noted that none of us know what we are getting; only that Hank won't be in Avengers 2. not one word has been spoken about Janet. and Wright has not confirmed that Hank Pym will be old. his story works just as easily with an active Pym who, for whatever reason, has put his costume aside. and nothing i've read prevents Janet from being in the movie. both characters, theoretically, could be available for future installments of Avengers.

and i totally disagree that Ultron is what gives them purpose. Ultron means absolutely nothing to Janet Van Dyne's character arc. she played no role in its creation. and Ultron, in a lot of ways, is what has kept Pym from growing as a character. he, right out the gate, eclipsed Pym. Ultron, up until the end of Age of Ultron, was more important than its creator. he was the big bad in one of those cosmic crossovers.

Pym and Wasp's strength was in being a couple of under the radar crimefighters detectives; emphasis on couple. their adventures were lighthearted and custom made for an earlier era of Marvel comics. becoming Avengers is when things started to go to hell for the characters.

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:17 PM   #119
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You too Prox ease up a bit, there are SEVERAL people not happy Hank and Janet aren't in the movies like the Original Comics. I say wait and see what happens, all we know is Hank's not involved with ULTRON and Joss is still rewritting the script
My apologies good sir. We shall see.

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Old 07-22-2013, 10:35 PM   #120
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I'm taking the "Vartha approach" mentioned above.

I will wait and see because I simply trust Joss that much. Any one else and I'd be *****ing up a storm right now everywhere across the Net. The thought of Hank Pym not being involved with Ultron makes me want to puke but one deep breath later I'm calm and ready for a new take.

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Old 07-22-2013, 11:08 PM   #121
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Isn't there ANYTHING ELSE interesting about Pym, or does he have to create Ultron in order to be relevant? Can't they find something ELSE cool for him to do.

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Old 07-22-2013, 11:18 PM   #122
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Pym was always the inventor and scientist of the group, even with Tony Stark being around.

Tony Stark was too busy being Iron Man, running a company, doing his own thing, etc.

Pym was the guy who hung around the mansion and didnt leave, solved problems, used his brainpower to help the team and so on (I also always liked Hanks old school Yellowjacket)

Again, this might be a generational thing. When I read the books in the 70s and early 80s, the Pyms were always there.

Even when Hank wasnt, Janet was. Wasp was pretty much a steady member for over a decade.

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Old 07-22-2013, 11:32 PM   #123
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Isn't there ANYTHING ELSE interesting about Pym, or does he have to create Ultron in order to be relevant? Can't they find something ELSE cool for him to do.
One cool thing about him was head master of the Avengers Academy. What is Pym helps mold the new generation of Avengers.

Ant Man (Scott Lang)
Wasp- His teacher assistant, who shacking up with him.

Plus here's something cool you can do with him. Since the Ant-Man film is most likely one and done. Hank Pym could join Agents of SHIELD. There's going to be a bunch of heroes and he could be the connection.

In the MCU Hank Pym could be the guy who convinces Dr. Strange, Black Panther and the other new characters to help fight Thanos. Ant-Man doesn't even need to be an Avenger in the MCU. He can be a solo adventurer who only joins the Avengers in the fight against Thanos.


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Old 07-22-2013, 11:35 PM   #124
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Default Re: Hank Pym?

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Pym was always the inventor and scientist of the group, even with Tony Stark being around.

Tony Stark was too busy being Iron Man, running a company, doing his own thing, etc.

Pym was the guy who hung around the mansion and didnt leave, solved problems, used his brainpower to help the team and so on (I also always liked Hanks old school Yellowjacket)
Looks like they've given that to Banner.

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Old 07-23-2013, 12:15 AM   #125
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Yea, which is why they might be putting him off. I mean to comment on that and simply forgot while editing my post.

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