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Old 07-24-2013, 11:47 AM   #76
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Originally Posted by xDumpweed182x View Post
Everyone saying that MOS was a wreck and this is dreadful news, would you rather we still be in the Batman Forever/Batman and Robin days? Surely we can agree that MOS wasn't a wreck when compared to that garbage.
That's neither here nor there. Bad is bad, no matter the depths it reaches. There will always be worse films, doesn't mean that we should start accepting mediocrity, or as you seem to be suggesting, put it upon a pedestal for simply not being the worst of the worst.

I see nothing wrong with having high standards and holding filmmakers to said standards.

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:07 PM   #77
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

Zach Snyder is great for directing action stuff and visuals and CGI, but I get the feeling that dialogue bores him.

I also don't like dwelling too much on the concept of superheroes bickering or fighting against each other (you can guess my opinion of the first half of the Avengers). It might be some novelty fanboy dream for these two to face off against each other but it was never mine.

I liked MoS. I liked the Batman trilogy. But the idea of Goyer doing Batman yet again with perhaps other returning staff like Zimmer yet again isn't thrilling me.

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Old 07-25-2013, 02:08 AM   #78
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Because they didn't show Clark having a cheerful childhood and pa Kent is too protective?
No, because it was a shallow shell of film that tried to pass as deep and reflective. It's what people have been accusing Nolan's Batfilms to be, only this time it's true. It was a MCU film wrapped up in seriousness.

Having said that, I had fun. But they need to step up their game. At least the MCU doesn't shy away from what it is: a silly and shallow franchise, that embraces both those traits and puts them to use. If DCU is going to try hiding the silliness and shallowness behind false depth, they're screwed.

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Old 07-25-2013, 08:44 AM   #79
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Everyone saying that MOS was a wreck and this is dreadful news, would you rather we still be in the Batman Forever/Batman and Robin days? Surely we can agree that MOS wasn't a wreck when compared to that garbage.
"There are movies that are worse" doesn't mean it's above criticism.

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Old 07-25-2013, 08:56 AM   #80
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Zach Snyder is great for directing action stuff and visuals and CGI, but I get the feeling that dialogue bores him.
It's a bit disingenuous to claim dialogue bores Snyder. He clearly cares about the character. I think he just simply doesn't have as solid a grasp on good writing as say Jonathan and Chris Nolan do. I would like those two to come in and help with scripting duties.

Before succumbing to hysteria and melacholy, we should just be patient and wait until we know more details first before rushing to conclusions.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:00 AM   #81
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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It's a bit disingenuous to claim dialogue bores Snyder. He clearly cares about the character. I think he just simply doesn't have as solid a grasp on good writing as say Jonathan and Chris Nolan do. I would like those two to come in and help with scripting duties.
Okay, so maybe it is presumptive to say that dialogue bores him, but the dialogue scenes in his movies are often poorly directed and the film rushes through them and a sped up pace while lingering on the action.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:04 AM   #82
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

not really snyder's character moments in his films are better than the action half the time

he understands character hell snyder said this scene in the script is what got him on board for mos

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:18 AM   #83
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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not really snyder's character moments in his films are better than the action half the time

he understands character hell snyder said this scene in the script is what got him on board for mos
I feel like that scene proves my point. I love the idea of that scene, but while I was watching the film I felt like the pacing in that scene was going by way to fast. We weren't given enough time to experience it and really feel it, it just went from beat to beat without any pauses, without resting between the lines of dialogue to let the motions of the scene set in or to let it feel like the events were progressing organically. It felt like it was being rushed through to get to the next scene. It was definitely one of the best scenes in the script, but it's execution, to me anyway, was lacking.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:24 AM   #84
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I found the dialogue scenes a little better in Watchmen, even if I liked the ones from MOS, the pacing was a little too fast. But, for me, Watchmen proves that Snyder can bring some emotions, I know many didn't like the movie but personally I did get all the feelings from it. Snyder must have heard the criticism for his Superman movie, and I'm sure he will fix that. He have the capabilities in my opinion.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:31 AM   #85
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

A little, yeah. Personally I feel this need a co-director and numerous writers.
It is what it is tho.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:42 AM   #86
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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No, because it was a shallow shell of film that tried to pass as deep and reflective. It's what people have been accusing Nolan's Batfilms to be, only this time it's true. It was a MCU film wrapped up in seriousness.

Having said that, I had fun. But they need to step up their game. At least the MCU doesn't shy away from what it is: a silly and shallow franchise, that embraces both those traits and puts them to use. If DCU is going to try hiding the silliness and shallowness behind false depth, they're screwed.
That sounds a little pretentious. The movies have a lot of substance, sorry if you can't see that.

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Old 07-25-2013, 10:36 AM   #87
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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That sounds a little pretentious. The movies have a lot of substance, sorry if you can't see that.
Lol, way to be condescending just because someone partially slighted something you like.

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Old 07-25-2013, 10:46 AM   #88
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I'm not excited because frankly Snyder's incapable of delivering a film with an engaging story, I fell into the trap of believing MoS might be the moment he finally steps up to the plate especially with team Nolan being involved, I got wowed by the trailers and the look of the film, but it was another false dawn with all his inadequate story telling hallmarks, so forgive me if I'm not exactly popping champagne corks over this movie. If it was someone else directing I'd be far more excited. I'll end up seeing it, but frankly I don't care about it one way or the other. All I know is Superman is still lacking a great modern movie and I'm waiting to see that come to fruition.

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Old 07-25-2013, 11:54 AM   #89
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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not really snyder's character moments in his films are better than the action half the time

he understands character hell snyder said this scene in the script is what got him on board for mos
If he understood character he would have given this scene more attention instead of having 40 minute fight sequences.

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Old 07-25-2013, 01:12 PM   #90
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I'm excited, but it is tinged with dread. It's like losing your virginity, to Grace Jones.

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Old 07-25-2013, 01:32 PM   #91
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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A little, yeah. Personally I feel this need a co-director and numerous writers.
It is what it is tho.
This will cause confusion and compromise. This is why most movies have one maybe two writers and the ones that get input from everyone who can offer it end up like Alien 3. No one in Hollywood thinks having more than three writers max is a good idea because you get to many ideas and not all of them work. And It also usually means the first draft screenplay sucked, so if Warner Bros. announces they hired another writer in 6 months, then I'll be worried.

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Old 07-25-2013, 01:58 PM   #92
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Here's my problem with this statement. There is no such thing as a flawless movie.

.
This is true....there really isnt. BUT the less flaws the better...what I meant was not "flawless" but less flawed. I did follow up and say that too.

Overall MOS really was an over-crammed wannabe-ish movie. It's like as if maybe they did want to produce a truly epic film...but they lost touch of what is needed to do just that. Instead it felt fast forwarded and convoluted.
I did like it....I far far from HATE it(like IM3 trash). But it seems its flaws were not just little details..here and there....it had some fundamental flaws...and thats tougher to forgive or oversight. It just didnt dig in and leave you mesmerized EVEN THOUGH you could tell they imagined it would. I sum it up as they maybe maybe did want to make it EPIC....or they just didnt really care and were ok with Medium.

SupVsBat should be EPIC.

I could only say this....I feel as tho some of the MOS creative geniuses DO have talent....but its like they needed a mentor...an OLD SCHOOL mentor to swoop in and say LISTEN YOU CANT DO THAT...that bs your wanting to do right there!!! you cannot do that...you'll sway the viewers in the wrong direction. If they had maybe George lucas or SS or Ridley Scott or maybe even Nolan...in there to say woah woah your moving to fast...and maybe splicing bits and parts of the origin while working action in the middle of it isnt such a good thing your losing the feel and speciality.

I think sometimes creative geniuses want to do breakthrough chit....like introduce new formats to viewers...I feel like the format or delivery of MOS was crap.....I also dont think the first movie in any franchise is the oppt to play format "dice"...and the creative geniuses should work their talents in a known to work sort of way...and push for new envelopes or formats fugn elsewhere or maybe pt2. But starting off with blurr/tornado of a film is not a good sign. And shows poor decision making skills on the part of the creative geniuses.

Which fills up the tank with dread for SvB because it should be as flawless as possible with a WOW that was Epic feeling.

Not excited due to MOS...but sometimes we all get surprises tho. Maybe the moon and earth will align correctly at just the perfect times their brains need more or less gravity.

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Old 07-25-2013, 02:00 PM   #93
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

Shouldn't the dialogue problems be more on Goyer not Snyder?

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Old 07-25-2013, 02:11 PM   #94
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Shouldn't the dialogue problems be more on Goyer not Snyder?
Well, in Man of Steel, yes to an extent. But:

A) As the director, Snyder does have the power to ask Goyer to give a line a polish if he thinks needs it.

B) Good direction, both in terms of cinematography and pacing and good direction of actors, can sometimes help at least a little bit to mitigate the problem of bad dialogue. Depending on what else he has to work with and just how bad the line is, a director can sometimes get something good out of a bad line on the day. Snyder didn't really help things in this regard either.


Also, Snyder is co-writing the World's Finest movie, and he's a pretty bad writer.

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Old 07-25-2013, 04:02 PM   #95
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

What I meant by dialogue is that Snyder just wants to get the talking out of the way as quickly as possible so the movie can move on to something visual-oriented.

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Old 07-25-2013, 04:22 PM   #96
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Well, in Man of Steel, yes to an extent. But:

A) As the director, Snyder does have the power to ask Goyer to give a line a polish if he thinks needs it.

B) Good direction, both in terms of cinematography and pacing and good direction of actors, can sometimes help at least a little bit to mitigate the problem of bad dialogue. Depending on what else he has to work with and just how bad the line is, a director can sometimes get something good out of a bad line on the day. Snyder didn't really help things in this regard either.


Also, Snyder is co-writing the World's Finest movie, and he's a pretty bad writer.
Well that's disconcerting.

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Old 07-25-2013, 04:46 PM   #97
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I think at the moment, my biggest obstacle with this film is just finding some closure from the fact that this isn’t MOS 2 anymore. Once I’m over that, then I think I could dive into the chance of actually looking forward in possibly seeing it someday. I mean take away everything else that I mentioned in the “Cons” part of this film and ultimately, you just have the fact that Superman fans didn’t really want this at first since we haven’t been given a proper sequel to a superman film in over 30 years.

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Old 07-25-2013, 05:13 PM   #98
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

It IS mos2, the story just happens to involve Bruce/Batman. IMO it's a great way to continue his journey and his evolving characterization.

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Old 07-25-2013, 05:15 PM   #99
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It IS mos2, the story just happens to involve Bruce/Batman. IMO it's a great way to continue his journey and his evolving characterization.
Well we’re going to have to wait and hear from Snyder and company on what this is officially being viewed as.

But the fact that the logo of this film pretty much had a “World’s Finest” look to it, what with Batman’s logo being attached to Superman’s, it’s not hard to imagine why people would think that this isn’t a MOS 2 film.

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Old 07-25-2013, 05:28 PM   #100
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I think it may have been a way of hyping the movie, in contention with all the other Comic Con stuff. Pushing the movie as Supes v Bats carries more headlines than a statement that the two will meet as in Byrne's origin story.

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