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6 16 8.38%
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:09 AM   #76
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Originally Posted by antonydelfini View Post
My preferred climax

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would have been more grounded, grittier, and closer to the Wolverine mini-series: longer Wolverine and Yukio vs ninjas, Yukio vs Viper, Wolverine vs Shingen wearing Silver Samurai armor. I didn't like the Yashida twist. It would have been the best superhero movie ever if it maintained the tone and mood of the 1st 2 acts IMO.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
I would have cut the armor in general. Also, cut Viper as well, as her entire character was unneeded. I agree about the Yashida twist, since it quite literally made no sense for him to fake his death (and ultimately made carrying out his entire plan only harder). I would have included the original conflict of the mini-series with Shingen disdaining Wolverine for being a mutant and being unworthy, and on top of Wolverine's hatred of being immortal, added his struggle with his animal vs. being an honroable warrior.

In general, making the film more personal as a whole would have been a much better move.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:17 AM   #77
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

Really, the twist of the movie is the biggest issue I had with the thing. Not from a character standpoint, but just in point of logic.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
It literally made no sense. Shingin didn't apprear to have any power to strip his father of control, so I have no idea why Yashida faked his death, and named Mariko to inherit the company. All that did was put Mariko in danger, and actually put Wolverine beyond his reach and delay what precious time he had left. Why they didn't abduct Logan right after he was dosed I have no idea.

And since Yashida "dying" quite literally kicks off the main plot line of the film, the fact that it doesn't make a lick of sense is a bit of a problem storytelling wise.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:27 AM   #78
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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I took it that Yashida created the whole engagement/company powerplay thing to get eyes off his own plans. He gave f**k about his family, let alone Mariko. Shingen was just misguided. And it worked for me in that sense.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:29 AM   #79
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Really, the twist of the movie is the biggest issue I had with the thing. Not from a character standpoint, but just in point of logic.
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It literally made no sense. Shingin didn't apprear to have any power to strip his father of control, so I have no idea why Yashida faked his death, and named Mariko to inherit the company. All that did was put Mariko in danger, and actually put Wolverine beyond his reach and delay what precious time he had left. Why they didn't abduct Logan right after he was dosed I have no idea.

And since Yashida "dying" quite literally kicks off the main plot line of the film, the fact that it doesn't make a lick of sense is a bit of a problem storytelling wise.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Yashida faked his death because Wolverine didn't hand over his mutation willingly. Viper poisoned him, then they faked Yashida's death so that they could capture Logan at the funeral, assuming he would be weakened without his healing factor. But he escaped. They took Mariko as a means to lure Logan to the temple to finally take away his healing power. They had no time - Yashida would have died if they had waited any longer.

Yashida had been obsessed with mutants ever since he was saved by Logan in WWII, and he'd bankrupted the company with his experiments. Shingen hated mutants because of what his father's obsession had done to their company, and he was trying to keep it from being passed to Mariko because he wanted to take it over and restore their honor, as he had been lying to stockholders over the state of company.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:32 AM   #80
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Yashida faked his death because Wolverine didn't hand over his mutation willingly. Viper poisoned him, then they faked Yashida's death so that they could capture Logan at the funeral, assuming he would be weakened without his healing factor. But he escaped. They took Mariko as a means to lure Logan to the temple to finally take away his healing power. They had no time - Yashida would have died if they had waited any longer.

Yashida had been obsessed with mutants ever since he was saved by Logan in WWII, and he'd bankrupted the company with his experiments. Shingen hated mutants because of what his father's obsession had done to their company, and he was trying to keep it from being passed to Mariko because he wanted to take it over and restore their honor, as he had been lying to stockholders over the state of company.
Put it better than I ever could. You deserve a Hugh kiss on the cheek.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:35 AM   #81
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Put it better than I ever could. You deserve a Hugh kiss on the cheek.
Thanks.

I did get to meet him before I saw the movie earlier this week.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:42 AM   #82
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Old 07-26-2013, 02:43 AM   #83
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Yashida faked his death because Wolverine didn't hand over his mutation willingly. Viper poisoned him, then they faked Yashida's death so that they could capture Logan at the funeral, assuming he would be weakened without his healing factor. But he escaped. They took Mariko as a means to lure Logan to the temple to finally take away his healing power. They had no time - Yashida would have died if they had waited any longer.

Yashida had been obsessed with mutants ever since he was saved by Logan in WWII, and he'd bankrupted the company with his experiments. Shingen hated mutants because of what his father's obsession had done to their company, and he was trying to keep it from being passed to Mariko because he wanted to take it over and restore their honor, as he had been lying to stockholders over the state of company.
Still didn't make sense.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The whole plan was to capture Logan. It would have made much more sense to do this right after he was drugged and staying at the Yashida home. The Yazuka at the funeral were not after Logan, they were the men hired by Shigin and Mariko's Fiance to capture Mariko, hence why they were trying to kill Logan and capture Mariko, and why they tried to attack Viper.

Faking his death made no sense. It only lengthened his time spent trying to get to Logan because it caused a power squabble in his family. Again, something that didn't make sense, because if he was being smart, he would have kept Shingin thinking that he would inherit the company, sense Shigen was actually keeping information from their shareholders that the old man was pouring money into trying to stay alive, something that if the shareholders found out, they could have possibly put a stop to.

There was no benefit at all to him faking his death, and that's a pretty big plot flaw.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:43 AM   #84
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Thanks.

I did get to meet him before I saw the movie earlier this week.
I know, hence my particular remark.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:47 AM   #85
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

I'll be seeing this sometime today. Hopefully I like it but I'm not going in with any expectations.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:54 AM   #86
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Still didn't make sense.

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The whole plan was to capture Logan. It would have made much more sense to do this right after he was drugged and staying at the Yashida home. The Yazuka at the funeral were not after Logan, they were the men hired by Shigin and Mariko's Fiance to capture Mariko, hence why they were trying to kill Logan and capture Mariko, and why they tried to attack Viper.

Faking his death made no sense. It only lengthened his time spent trying to get to Logan because it caused a power squabble in his family. Again, something that didn't make sense, because if he was being smart, he would have kept Shingin thinking that he would inherit the company, sense Shigen was actually keeping information from their shareholders that the old man was pouring money into trying to stay alive.

There was no benefit at all to him faking his death, and that's a pretty big plot flaw.
No, it's not.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Harada was after Logan. The Yakuza were after Mariko. There were two hits going on at the same time. Viper tells Harada later that he she needed him "to bring her the mutant", and that she had poisoned him to make him easier for him to capture, and that he had failed her for not doing so.

Yashida didn't fake his death, exactly. His death was imminent. The armor was the only thing that could keep him alive and they were getting him to the armor as quickly as possible, but leading everyone else to believe that he had died. He would have actually died if they hadn't moved him.

Since there was already a plan to assassinate Mariko, they set it up so it would look like Logan was just another victim at the funeral shootout. It wasn't enough that Logan had been poisoned, he needed to be injured badly enough for them to take as well. Presuming it couldn't have been done in the Yashida house, that was the plan to injure him and take him.

The "power squabble" in the family was already there. It was caused by Yashida's obsession, and had gone on for years prior to Logan ever arriving in Tokyo.

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Old 07-26-2013, 02:54 AM   #87
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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I know, hence my particular remark.

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:00 AM   #88
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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No, it's not.

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Harada was after Logan. The Yakuza were after Mariko. There were two hits going on at the same time. Viper tells Harada later that he she needed him "to bring her the mutant", and that she had poisoned him to make him easier for him to capture, and that he had failed her for not doing so.

Yashida didn't fake his death, exactly. His death was imminent. The armor was the only thing that could keep him alive and they were getting him to the armor as quickly as possible, but leading everyone else to believe that he had died. He would have actually died if they hadn't moved him.

Since there was already a plan to assassinate Mariko, they set it up so it would look like Logan was just another victim at the funeral shootout. It wasn't enough that Logan had been poisoned, he needed to be injured badly enough for them to take as well. Presuming it couldn't have been done in the Yashida house, that was the plan to injure him and take him.

The "power squabble" in the family was already there. It was caused by Yashida's obsession, and had gone on for years prior to Logan ever arriving in Tokyo.

Good response.

I didn't have any issues with the plot either.

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:02 AM   #89
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

I also give it an 8. It's a well made film, no doubt. If it had come out before the first X-men film it would have made a bigger impression on me. Instead I found myself enjoying it but somewhat impatiently waiting for Days of Future Past in the back of my mind.

The film had an important purpose beyond telling this story, and that was to help soften the blow of X3 and Origins. It did that. I can now watch X3 knowing that I can then watch this and watch Logan deal with the silliness that went on in that film in a non-silly way.

I agree with the comments made that this was the Wolveirne film that we should have seen instead of Origins. It effectively redeemed Jackman as Wolverine preparing us for the re-emerging of the X-men together again in Days of Future Past.
It felt kind of like Captain America and Thor did when I first watched them the year before Avengers was to be released. As though it was important to watch, but that it was really simply a precursor for an incredible film that I have to wait a year to see.

I can't wait for Days of Future Past!

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:10 AM   #90
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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No, it's not

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Harada was after Logan. The Yakuza were after Mariko. There were two hits going on at the same time. Viper tells Harada later that he she needed him "to bring her the mutant", and that she had poisoned him to make him easier for him to capture, and that he had failed her for not doing so.

Yashida didn't fake his death, exactly. His death was imminent. The armor was the only thing that could keep him alive and they were getting him to the armor as quickly as possible, but leading everyone else to believe that he had died. He would have actually died if they hadn't moved him.

Since there was already a plan to assassinate Mariko, they set it up so it would look like Logan was just another victim at the funeral shootout. It wasn't enough that Logan had been poisoned, he needed to be injured badly enough for them to take as well. Presuming it couldn't have been done in the Yashida house, that was the plan to injure him and take him.

The "power squabble" in the family was already there. It was caused by Yashida's obsession, and had gone on for years prior to Logan ever arriving in Tokyo.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
Hashada makes sense, but again, that still could have happened without the old man having to fake his death. He still could have sent people after Wolverine, and it would have been less trouble because there would have been no assassination attempt on Mariko, which lead to Logan escaping.

There was a small power squabble in the family, but Shigin was appeased by thinking he would inherit the business. There was no issue with Mariko until the old man made one by naming her the inheritor...which he didn't need to do.

So again, him faking his death didn't give him any edge. Aside from keeping Logan in Japan another day. But with his money and power, I really can't believe that he couldn't have found a way to delay Logan anyway.

All faking his death did was actually waste some of his precious time.


On a side note, I'm insanely jealous that you got to meet Hugh.

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:12 AM   #91
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

Just got back. Gonna be brief, I Have to start off with the fact that the cinematography was absolutely amazing. I thought the film was great, had great emotion. Jackman was fantastic, loved marikos story arc. I knew going in to be wary of the final act, and it was over the top and the weakest part of the film. That being said not terrible, and had no effect on my overall reaction to the film. Wow i can honestly say i enjoyed this story far more than any of marvels entries. I actually cared sitting through this. Cannot wait for DOFP!!

8.5

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:13 AM   #92
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Jackman ****ing owned the role! Wow. Non of the previous X-Men movies even scratched the character like this film did. The film aint perfect but Jackman's performance is pretty damn close imo. Well done Jackman and Mangold for finally getting this character right.

As long as they represent Wolverine as well as they did here I have no problem with more Wolverine films. And I hope we do see him in X-Force snikt slashing the **** out of people. Hopefully Singer doesn't water the character down any in DOFP cause this film showed exactly how the character needs to be represented.

This was awesome even with it's flaws.
8.5 for me.


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Old 07-26-2013, 03:19 AM   #93
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Excellent film.. 9/10

Did anyone catch what I felt like looked like a Spider-Man easter egg?

This hat:
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:


Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
This hat was in one of the scenes. Harada goes out to some part in Tokyo to meet Viper, and there's a citizen that walks by with this hat on, he's in view for at least 5 seconds.

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:24 AM   #94
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Hashada makes sense, but again, that still could have happened without the old man having to fake his death. He still could have sent people after Wolverine, and it would have been less trouble because there would have been no assassination attempt on Mariko, which lead to Logan escaping.

There was a small power squabble in the family, but Shigin was appeased by thinking he would inherit the business. There was no issue with Mariko until the old man made one by naming her the inheritor...which he didn't need to do.

So again, him faking his death didn't give him any edge. Aside from keeping Logan in Japan another day. But with his money and power, I really can't believe that he couldn't have found a way to delay Logan anyway.

All faking his death did was actually waste some of his precious time.
But,

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
They were only just finding out that Mariko had inherited the company, we saw her being told that night...which would lead us to believe that Shingen had just learned this as well, otherwise the hit on Mariko would have happened sooner. I think Shingen assumed he would inherit the company and that he would be able to further his own politcal ambitions to with the arranged marriage he'd planned for Mariko.

Yashida had simply assumed Logan would want to die. He'd been following him for at least a year, saw him suffering, and was obsessed enough to honestly believe that giving Logan the opportunity to end his own life was repayment for saving him.

Faking his death was really the Plan B...and it was less of a planned fakeout than it was a need to get him somewhere that would keep him alive longer. They had to do it, it's not necessarily what they wanted to do.

It was a huge family power squabble that had clearly gone on for years, as long as Yashida had been obsessed, and how deeply rooted Shingen's hated of mutants was. When Shingen was fighing Wolverine, he was yelling how "their kind" had brought ruin to his family.


Quote:
On a side note, I'm insanely jealous that you got to meet Hugh.


I'm still in shock that I got to meet him. I got picked to go up on stage and ask him a question before the movie. It was crazy!!!!!

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:32 AM   #95
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

8/10

pleasantly surprised by the movie. really makes up for Origins which had left a bad taste in my mouth. i can understand a lot of the criticisms in the last 20 or so minutes of the movie. for the most part of the movie it didn't even feel like an X-Men movie and all of a sudden the tone sort of changes. still though, it's not as bad as critics have made it out to be. really looking forward to the blu-ray with those additional 15 minutes.

to those that have read the original screenplay when Aronofsky was still attached, what major changes were made compared to the film we eventually got by Mangold?

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:32 AM   #96
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

This didn't feel like a "Superhero/Comicbook movie" until the final act…and for this character, I find that to be a good thing.

I was pleasantly surprised as I totally expected this to be mediocre at best. Especially after the mess that was Origins.

Very well done.

8.5/10

And don't get me started on that end credits scene…OMG.

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:38 AM   #97
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

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Jackman ****ing owned the role! Wow. Non of the previous X-Men movies even scratched the character like this film did. The film aint perfect but Jackman's performance is pretty damn close imo. Well done Jackman and Mangold for finally getting this character right.

As long as they represent Wolverine as well as they did here I have no problem with more Wolverine films. And I hope we do see him in X-Force snikt slashing the **** out of people. Hopefully Singer doesn't water the character down any in DOFP cause this film showed exactly how the character needs to be represented.

This was awesome even with it's flaws.
8.5 for me.
Yeah the mansion scene in X2 and cage fight scene in X1 now seem so tame compared to the MANY classic Wolvie scenes in The Wolverine.

He's so scary and dangerous in this one. Mangold needs to come back for a sequel as he gets this character 100 percent.

BTW, I hope we get 3-4 X-Men franchises now: X-Men led by Prof X Cyclops Storm and Jean etc with 180-200 million budget and no Wolverine, X-Force led by Wolverine Cable Deadpool etc. with 150 million budget, and Wolverine solo movies with 100-120 million budget.

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Old 07-26-2013, 03:47 AM   #98
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

Agreed 100%.

And yeah I hope they give us multiple films and split up the members. Let Cyc get the time on the X-Men while Logan stays with his solo flicks and X-Force. Theres too many stories to tell. It's nice not having to wait 3-4 years for the next X Films anymore.

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Old 07-26-2013, 04:04 AM   #99
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Agreed 100%.

And yeah I hope they give us multiple films and split up the members. Let Cyc get the time on the X-Men while Logan stays with his solo flicks and X-Force. Theres too many stories to tell. It's nice not having to wait 3-4 years for the next X Films anymore.
Let's thank Marvel Studios for waking Fox up.

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Old 07-26-2013, 04:31 AM   #100
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Default Re: Let The Claws Do The Talking - Rate & Review "The Wolverine"

I liked this movie a lot...X2 is still my fave but this is right up there

Best end credit scene... I have seen in a while both Amazing Spider-man and IM3 were rather weak.

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