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Old 07-27-2013, 07:31 PM   #201
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I've been dreading this since I heard the announcement. There's some great concepts in Man of Steel but there was just too much I didn't like about it, knowing the same minds behind that are now handling this doesn't give me much hope. I'll hope for the bet but I'm not expecting to feel much better about this down the road.

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Old 07-27-2013, 10:51 PM   #202
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Just call it Man of Steel: World' Finest on the East Coast and The Dark Knight: World's Finest on the West Coast.
What should it be called internationally

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Old 07-27-2013, 11:08 PM   #203
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Returns was relying a lot on nostalgia to carry forward its hype, I don't think there's any doubt about that, thing is WB miscalculated the extent of that nostalgia. I don't recall the excitement levels being anywhere near that of Man of Steel. The great irony of course is that to many Returns is the better film.
Nope.

Transformers: Dark of the Moon was better liked than SR.

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Old 07-27-2013, 11:28 PM   #204
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Nope.

Transformers: Dark of the Moon was better liked than SR.
Well, that's random.

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:43 AM   #205
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Well, that's random.
Not really.
I would say most people would consider MOS a better movie than SR (maybe not better than S:TM). Even a movie as "critically panned" as TF 3 was better received than SR (by audiences).

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Old 07-28-2013, 07:40 AM   #206
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I think what is happening is inevitable, and TBH maybe we should be trying to look at this more positively.

We knew that WB were going to try and rush through some kind of response to Avengers. They needs to compete. Look at all the franchises going on at the moment.

Next year you've got Days Of Future Past, The Amazing Spider-man 2, Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Guardians Of The Galaxy. Then 2015 has Avengers: Age Of Ultron, The Fantastic Four and Ant-man.

If they want to start remotely competing in the superhero film department, they need to step it up in 'scale'. They need to start making a DC universe now.

Do I was it was different? God yes. If I could have my wish granted it would be that they had made a great Superman film long before the MCU ever started phase one. That we'd had the chance to really cement Superman's place as a hero whose HEROICS are epic, not just the movies visuals.

But what we have is what we have.

And we have to be realistic.

We're pretty lucky they are doing Batman/Superman first and not just rushing in head on to a JL movie (which is what it looked like they were going to do for a while there, when Snyder was saying that would be a seperate thing from the MOS universe).

We will at least get half a movie dedicated to telling a bit more of this Superman's journey. There is at least a small chance that we might see some of the issues from MOS resolved, and see some of the things we didn't get to see (like CK working as a journalist, Lex Luthor, Superman saving people from 'normal' things etc).

We'd be even less likely to see that if they were just throwing us straight into JL.

And the real silver lining for me, is that once they've got the 'rush' to catch up with the MCU out of their system, and we have Batman/Superman and probably JL after that... we might actually get to see some more solo outings. And Goyer/Snyder can't be the only writers involved forever.

Maybe then we'll get the Superman movie we deserve.

There is still hope

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"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


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Old 07-28-2013, 07:51 AM   #207
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Returns was relying a lot on nostalgia to carry forward its hype, I don't think there's any doubt about that, thing is WB miscalculated the extent of that nostalgia. I don't recall the excitement levels being anywhere near that of Man of Steel. The great irony of course is that to many Returns is the better film.
Many? The few who tried to shout down everyone else? Check out this thread, its not even close

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=461771

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:12 AM   #208
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I clearly meant the critics. Geez.

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:15 AM   #209
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I clearly meant the critics. Geez.
Wasn't that clear, tbh.

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:17 AM   #210
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I clearly meant the critics. Geez.
You said "many people".

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:24 AM   #211
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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And the real silver lining for me, is that once they've got the 'rush' to catch up with the MCU out of their system, and we have Batman/Superman and probably JL after that... we might actually get to see some more solo outings. And Goyer/Snyder can't be the only writers involved forever.

Maybe then we'll get the Superman movie we deserve.

There is still hope
Yeah. I wonder if when Snyder is doing Justice League, we'll get new writer/director for a solo Superman film. I'm kind of curious what an Ang Lee Superman film would be like. Life of Pi looks like it has the kind of colorful, bright palette and optimistic tone a Superman film could have.

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:25 AM   #212
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I loved Ang Lee's Hulk, but for his sake i think he shouldn't try another comic book movie.

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:29 AM   #213
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I think the idea that WB feels the need to compete directly with Marvel is coloured by our perceptions of the "Marvel v DC" debate that always runs amongst us fanboys. WB puts out an awful lot of product, only some of which is DC. They will certainly be aware of the potential to turn a profit in the same way as Marvel does by the ruthless exploitation of all of its intellectual property- good and bad- but this will vie with other strategies that WB might pursue. The success of Mavel's movies is not some kind of "threat" to WB, it is merely an exemplar of what WB could do with its DC properties.

And I hope they don't follow suit.

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Old 07-28-2013, 09:58 AM   #214
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Yeah. I wonder if when Snyder is doing Justice League, we'll get new writer/director for a solo Superman film. I'm kind of curious what an Ang Lee Superman film would be like. Life of Pi looks like it has the kind of colorful, bright palette and optimistic tone a Superman film could have.
TBH, the visuals is not a high priority for me anymore. I just want a better writer.

I think Snyder did a good job with the visuals here... though I still want him gone, cause of how much of a hand he had in changing the ending so Superman would kill Zod.

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I think the idea that WB feels the need to compete directly with Marvel is coloured by our perceptions of the "Marvel v DC" debate that always runs amongst us fanboys. WB puts out an awful lot of product, only some of which is DC. They will certainly be aware of the potential to turn a profit in the same way as Marvel does by the ruthless exploitation of all of its intellectual property- good and bad- but this will vie with other strategies that WB might pursue. The success of Mavel's movies is not some kind of "threat" to WB, it is merely an exemplar of what WB could do with its DC properties.

And I hope they don't follow suit.
They already have.

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I think back to my father. As a farmer, he had a natural understanding for the Earth. I remember him telling me this world is capable of providing for all its creatures. Even now, with so many more people, there exists enough food for everyone.

"The problem," Pa used to say, "is people. As far back as we go, we've always had problems with sharing. Seems everyone's too busy holding on to what they've got to care how their neighbors are doing."


*\S/T*
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Old 07-28-2013, 10:02 AM   #215
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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TBH, the visuals is not a high priority for me anymore. I just want a better writer.

I think Snyder did a good job with the visuals here... though I still want him gone, cause of how much of a hand he had in changing the ending so Superman would kill Zod.
I agree that writing is key. The somber tone, muted palette, and dark story all kind of merged into one experience for me though. I really want a film with Henry and Amy I can love and cherish forever. And I think to do that a kind of 'spiritual reboot' is what would need to happen.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:04 AM   #216
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Originally Posted by hopefuldreamer View Post
I think what is happening is inevitable, and TBH maybe we should be trying to look at this more positively.

We knew that WB were going to try and rush through some kind of response to Avengers. They needs to compete. Look at all the franchises going on at the moment.

Next year you've got Days Of Future Past, The Amazing Spider-man 2, Captain America: The Winter Soldier and Guardians Of The Galaxy. Then 2015 has Avengers: Age Of Ultron, The Fantastic Four and Ant-man.

If they want to start remotely competing in the superhero film department, they need to step it up in 'scale'. They need to start making a DC universe now.


Do I was it was different? God yes. If I could have my wish granted it would be that they had made a great Superman film long before the MCU ever started phase one. That we'd had the chance to really cement Superman's place as a hero whose HEROICS are epic, not just the movies visuals.

But what we have is what we have.

And we have to be realistic.

We're pretty lucky they are doing Batman/Superman first and not just rushing in head on to a JL movie (which is what it looked like they were going to do for a while there, when Snyder was saying that would be a seperate thing from the MOS universe).

We will at least get half a movie dedicated to telling a bit more of this Superman's journey. There is at least a small chance that we might see some of the issues from MOS resolved, and see some of the things we didn't get to see (like CK working as a journalist, Lex Luthor, Superman saving people from 'normal' things etc).

We'd be even less likely to see that if they were just throwing us straight into JL.

And the real silver lining for me, is that once they've got the 'rush' to catch up with the MCU out of their system, and we have Batman/Superman and probably JL after that... we might actually get to see some more solo outings. And Goyer/Snyder can't be the only writers involved forever.

Maybe then we'll get the Superman movie we deserve.

There is still hope
True and most of these films have massive casts/characters. Heck, even with ASM2 it seemed like a new character was added every week to that movie. First Class is one of my favorite all time comic book films and I was disappointed to hear that instead of just moving forward with the original cast and characters that Singer is also bringing back most of the team from the original films.

In this case, the MOS sequel, is adding just one extra character from the hero world. Now granted, it's Batman, one of the biggest heroes ever, I get that. However, I will continue to say this, you cannot have a shared universe and not have another character from the hero world step up once someone like Superman shows up, especially with the events of MOS. When Iron Man showed up, Fury appeared by the end of the first movie. In this case it is Batman that is appearing, reacting to Superman's appearance. And I understand Batman will have a bigger role than Fury, but it does make sense that he would be used as a reaction to Superman.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:05 AM   #217
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I don't think Goyer is comfortable writing Superman. The WF screenplay may flow better since Batman will appear.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:13 AM   #218
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

dont know about that he did say batman is easier to write but he wrote a good superman in man of steel

superman is more challenging to write

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:21 AM   #219
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I think the idea that WB feels the need to compete directly with Marvel is coloured by our perceptions of the "Marvel v DC" debate that always runs amongst us fanboys. WB puts out an awful lot of product, only some of which is DC. They will certainly be aware of the potential to turn a profit in the same way as Marvel does by the ruthless exploitation of all of its intellectual property- good and bad- but this will vie with other strategies that WB might pursue. The success of Mavel's movies is not some kind of "threat" to WB, it is merely an exemplar of what WB could do with its DC properties.

And I hope they don't follow suit.
I think this is mostly true. However, 2015 is an extremely crowded year for tentpole properties of all kinds. I do think there was a need to up the ante as to not get drowned out by all the competition (primarily Star Wars and Avengers). While it's not as simple as "Marvel vs. DC" scenario, I think there is an element of fighting for their share of the market space and fighting the public perception of Marvel being the only ones thinking five steps ahead.

It's certainly not a bitter rivalry though, as Kevin Feige has stated his appreciation of TDKT several times and believes that any time a CBM is successful it's good for the whole genre.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:22 AM   #220
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

In one interview, Goyer mentions MOS was the hardest screenplay he ever wrote. In another, he talks about starting to write MOS and staring at his computer unable to start. Most of the time, he talks about writing the Pa Kent scenes. Those scenes seem to have come more naturally than the Superman stuff. Time and again, he has talked about his love of Batman. He's more comfortable writing Batman.

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:53 PM   #221
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In one interview, Goyer mentions MOS was the hardest screenplay he ever wrote. In another, he talks about starting to write MOS and staring at his computer unable to start. Most of the time, he talks about writing the Pa Kent scenes. Those scenes seem to have come more naturally than the Superman stuff. Time and again, he has talked about his love of Batman. He's more comfortable writing Batman.
Even Snyder was apprehensive of doing Superman. Alot of hollywood wont touch Superman.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:56 PM   #222
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This thread is in this current position...


Here's hoping there is a trampoline just below where the picture cuts off

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:58 PM   #223
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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This thread is in this current position...
What is Zack Snyder doing there?

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Old 07-29-2013, 06:21 AM   #224
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

Sigh. Old argument already but I need to sound-off on it again. Especially after this interview with Grant Morrison (no doubt before this movie's announcement) that he's looking forward to hopefully a better sequel with Lex that's more akin to TDK.

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I kinda liked it and kinda didn't, to be honest. I feel bad because I like (director) Zack Snyder and (writer) David Goyer, and (star) Henry Cavill was really good. But it felt like one of those ones where it's like, "Bring on the second movie now that you've done this," and I don't need to see that as someone who knows all I know about Superman. For me, it was a bit "seen it before," no matter how they tried to make it a little bit different. I'm more looking forward to the Dark Knight version of Superman, the next one, where hopefully it will have Lex Luthor and be some fantastic second act.
I'd be so psyched, even putting aside my personal disappointment of MOS, and rallying behind this idea if Batman/Superman wasn't announced last week...

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Old 07-29-2013, 06:39 AM   #225
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Sigh. Old argument already but I need to sound-off on it again. Especially after this interview with Grant Morrison (no doubt before this movie's announcement) that he's looking forward to hopefully a better sequel with Lex that's more akin to TDK.

I'd be so psyched, even putting aside my personal disappointment of MOS, and rallying behind this idea if Batman/Superman wasn't announced last week...
I know the feeling..I know the feeling.

You know, a part of me wonders...if this was the original plan from the start up, to have batman in the next film, I wonder why they didn't do a post credit scene alluding to Batman's arrival in the next film.

In any case, it seems like Snyder and Goyer have much more to prove this time around, probably more so before MOS was released because we've all now seen on what they're really capable of with superman only, now they have batman on the plate along with a fair share of amount of people who had issues with their film, even for those who enjoyed it.

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