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View Poll Results: Could a new Batman possibly beat "The Man of Steel" in a fight?
Yes, Batman has the resources to beat Superman. 52 35.37%
No, Batman wouldn't stand a chance agaisnt the current Man of Steel. 95 64.63%
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Old 07-27-2013, 02:53 PM   #226
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?


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Old 07-27-2013, 04:30 PM   #227
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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And I am saying that Superman would have 'Super Sense'.. which would be superior to spidey sense... and yes, it does work the whole time.. he even says it in SR... (he hears millions of people all at once and can comprehend all at once)

You use your sense automatically.. like when you're walking, your periphery senses are working full time.. Supe's periphery senses would include miles and miles around him... and it'lll be automatic...



No it wouldn't... It only would when he decides to 'move at such speeds'.. I am saying his 'senses' would in a way be processing millions of times faster than ours.. ie, he would see any threats a mile away...

If he can't, then he won't be able to avoid bullets for instance.. and in MOS he clearly jump away from bullets fired from the plane... like i said, his senses should be what it is.. just like ours would be what it is...



It doesn't work that way.. do you 'slow down your senses'?

Your senses are your senses.. it works the way it works.. it's as fast as it should be... no more no less..
No enemy is unbeatable that is just a fact. His senses can be used against him by high pitch sounds and bright lights. How do you stop a man with superior speed? you make him think about every move he makes with a couple well placed explosives even one second of indecision could loos you any fight. His strength is a problem so you don't give him a target to hit.The last weakness is the psychological one where Bats gets inside Clark's head. Much like Hannibal Lector poking and prodding into the minds of others often times crippling them with self doubt and disillusion.

I'm just saying invulnerability and safety is an illusion no one is safe no one is invulnerable not even Superman.

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Old 07-27-2013, 04:40 PM   #228
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

Short answer?

Yes, if the writers deem it to be. As with any depiction of Batman with these physically superior beings, it depends on how it is written and presented.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:49 AM   #229
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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No enemy is unbeatable that is just a fact. His senses can be used against him by high pitch sounds and bright lights. How do you stop a man with superior speed? you make him think about every move he makes with a couple well placed explosives even one second of indecision could loos you any fight. His strength is a problem so you don't give him a target to hit.The last weakness is the psychological one where Bats gets inside Clark's head. Much like Hannibal Lector poking and prodding into the minds of others often times crippling them with self doubt and disillusion.

I'm just saying invulnerability and safety is an illusion no one is safe no one is invulnerable not even Superman.
YOu're talking about a completely different thing here.. we're talking about specific circumstances as portrayed in the cartoons which I don't buy..

Of course, you can beat Superman (with some convolusted twists or plot).. just not hand to hand combat... no matter how un-ready you think superman is..

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Old 07-28-2013, 02:46 AM   #230
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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You didn't directly respond to what I said and posted some comic book panels, but I'll say this.

It's not about Batman beating Superman. He never will be able to definitively beat Superman. Kal is a God. That's not the point.

It's about Batman representing the peak human condition and being able to stand toe-to-toe with Superman. To create those moments where the reader is like "Damn, what could Batman possibly have up his sleeve now?"

To show that he is smart enough and that he is skilled enough to bring the most powerful being on the planet to his knees if given the opportunity.

That's always been the underlying theme in any of Batman's interactions with his metahuman allies. He can and will stop you if given the slightest inkling that you will go rogue and he has the means to do it. He doesn't give a damn about your power level nor is he impressed.

But there will always be that faction of people who hate when Batman gets a one-up on Superman because "He'z not a Gawd!" or "He has no superpowurz!" instead of using their imagination and enjoying the story.

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Old 07-28-2013, 04:06 AM   #231
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

What all you guys forget is that Superman is not going to try to kill Batman. After the Zod thing, he will never want to go that far. That means he will hold himself back A LOT not to kill or seriously harm Batman, since he is a human being. That is the only reason Batman has ever "won" against Superman in the comics. Even in Hush, when he used the Kryptonite Ring against Supes, Bats said that he felt Clark holding back, not using real Superspeed and the like. Even in Dark Knight Returns Superman holds back, because he doesn't want to hurt Bruce.
They won't fight head to head with the intention of killing each other. Batman will humble Supes in one scene,because you have to have that to show he is capable to be a worthy partner to Superman. If you show Batman not being able to humble or outsmart him at least once, you undermine Bruce completely and thats also not in the interest of the film.

I think they should handle it like in the animated Worlds Finest movie (that Btas and Stas crossover?). They don't actually fight there. Supes underestimates Batman for a second, gets knocked on his butt (which is stupid, but I like the general idea of Bats surprising him), gets back up again knock Batman down in a not killing way, Batman whips out Kryptonite to make his escape and show Supes that he knows his weakness. Thats it! They also find out each others identitys (Clark via Xray vision and Bruce via detective work which again shows that both are extremely capable) and then work together against Luthor/Joker.
In that way you show that Bruce can hang with Clark, without undermining any of them.

And If they are in fact having a real one on one fight in the movie, Bruce will use a gazillion of awesome gadgets and/or a Iron Man like Batman mechsuit and it will result in themmexchanging a few blows, with Clark holding back a lot and at the end disabling Batmans suit and ending the fight in that way.

I am with you that I don't want to see a Dark Knight Returns style Superman bashing, but I also don't want Batman to look like a joke. I want to see why Superman says in Morrisons JLA that Batman is, in a way, almost the most dangerous human alive.

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Old 07-28-2013, 05:01 AM   #232
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

A human vs a superpowered alien. It's as night and day as you can get. I think it's a brilliant scenario. This God ruling the skies, and this low level grit avenger clinging to the shadows, surviving, and hoping to take him down one day. Constantly trying to find a way, but it keeps coming back to Kryptonite.

It troubles Batman's already dark and brooding mind. Knowing Batman would lose, but when the time comes, he simply has to win, is quite thrilling. Like the last scene of Dead End, with those Predators lining up to take on a wounded Batman.

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Old 07-28-2013, 05:46 AM   #233
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

A motion poster I made for Superman VS Batman (a.k.a. Man Of Steel 2). I have tried to highlight the combative nature of their relationship.


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Old 07-28-2013, 11:22 AM   #234
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L8q7dY2MnU

Zack Snyder doesn't seem to think so

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:22 AM   #235
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

crap delete this post plz

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:24 AM   #236
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

I hope Snyder keeps that attitude for the Movie.

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Old 07-28-2013, 11:38 AM   #237
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

The only people that think Batman could legitimately beat Superman are Bat fanboys, and they can be ignored.

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:59 PM   #238
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

Superman fans should be WANTING to see Batman deliver their guy as least one solid beatdown. The same reason Batfans wanted to see Joker wreak havoc on Gotham and Bane break the bat. A good hero deserves a challenge and a worthy opponent.

The whole issue of Superman being able to snap Batman like a twig is obvious and beside the point. Superman's moral center and opposition to killing means he cannot go 100% with Batman if he's fully powered. He can't even go 1%.

The philosophical battle between these two will be as intense as the physical one.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:13 PM   #239
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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Superman fans should be WANTING to see Batman deliver their guy as least one solid beatdown. The same reason Batfans wanted to see Joker wreak havoc on Gotham and Bane break the bat. A good hero deserves a challenge and a worthy opponent.
Uhm... isn't that what we have Lex Luthor for, and whatever plans he can whip up? Why does the challenge have to be another hero? So we can have a dick measuring contest?

Superman has tons of enemies that can not only challenge him physically, but also psychologically. We don't need Batman for that, just so we can raise him up even higher on a pedestal, showing everyone how he's the ultimate hero, who can make everyone, ranging from the common criminal to God himself, his b**ch.

Quote:
The whole issue of Superman being able to snap Batman like a twig is obvious and beside the point. Superman's moral center and opposition to killing means he cannot go 100% with Batman if he's fully powered. He can't even go 1%.

The philosophical battle between these two will be as intense as the physical one.
He doesn't even need 0.001% of his powers. Logically, Superman would only need his pinky to pin Batman to the ground. Just like Loki was pinned to the ground by Thor's Hammer. Superman wouldn't even have to hurt Batman to take him down. Well, hurt nothing except his pride.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:33 PM   #240
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

A mortal Batman with only armour stands no chance against Snyder's Superman. I'm sorry but he doesn't. Supes has to be weakened and I hate the idea that Kryptonite is brought in as no matter what IMO it will not feel right. I can just imagine a lone Green rock falling from the sky.

I like the idea that Lex somehow harvests the Kryptonian atmosphere and somehow uses that against Superman.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #241
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
Superman fans should be WANTING to see Batman deliver their guy as least one solid beatdown. The same reason Batfans wanted to see Joker wreak havoc on Gotham and Bane break the bat. A good hero deserves a challenge and a worthy opponent.
Uh, that doesn't make any sense. Batman isn't a Superman villain but another hero.

If it was someone like Doomsday or Darkseid, sure they should give Supes a beating but not another hero like Batman or even Wonder Woman.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:50 PM   #242
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L8q7dY2MnU

Zack Snyder doesn't seem to think so
Here's hoping he keeps that attitude..


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Old 07-28-2013, 01:59 PM   #243
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

If it were up to me Batman wouldn't even be in this movie at all. But he is. And Goyer and Snyder are talking about them "facing off".

Batman may be the hero of his own story, but to Superman he may seem like a dangerous vigilante nutjob. Just like to Batman, Kal is an unchecked super power.

These two guys aren't bread and butter. Bruce is too smart to engage Superman without an equalizer. There will be an equalizer, most likely Kryptonite. And the two will fight. The sooner we all accept that, the better.

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Old 07-28-2013, 02:05 PM   #244
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

There is still 2 years till the films release and we have no idea how far along the script is. Snyder and Goyer could easily think that maybe a fight between the two isn't the way to go....

Unlikely but still...

I have no issues with an equalizer. I just hope that equalizer is an object that comes out of nowhere.

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Old 07-28-2013, 02:15 PM   #245
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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If it were up to me Batman wouldn't even be in this movie at all. But he is. And Goyer and Snyder are talking about them "facing off".

Batman may be the hero of his own story, but to Superman he may seem like a dangerous vigilante nutjob. Just like to Batman, Kal is an unchecked super power.

These two guys aren't bread and butter. Bruce is too smart to engage Superman without an equalizer. There will be an equalizer, most likely Kryptonite. And the two will fight. The sooner we all accept that, the better.
I have no doubt they will fight... it's all part of the drama...

But here's to hoping they don't make it cheesy / completely off the charst illogical like in the cartoons or comics.. absolutely hated those.. you either have to turn superman into a dud, or batman into something he is not,...

oh wait, goyer's writing it, so back to 'cheesy, unbelievable, off the chart illogical'....

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Old 07-28-2013, 03:10 PM   #246
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

No, this can't be a fair fight. That's kind of the point. That's where the drama comes from.

But Superman will hold back, and try to make it fair. And Batman will cheat. So it will at least be interesting.

Also, I wouldn't assume Batman will be just fighting on foot, or physically

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Old 07-28-2013, 09:03 PM   #247
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

What kind of fight are you guys looking for?

Something kind of light, like in the WF's movie where Batman tosses Superman on his ass using Judo and Superman returning the favor by shoulder slamming Batman into a wall?

Or do you want something heavy? Like for some reason Batman/Superman is trying to really hurt or kill the other?

Personally Id prefer the former.

You get to see Batman using his superior martial arts to drop Superman, and then you get to see Superman use his superior strength and speed to put Batman down. Nothing serious and you get to see a little of what theyre capable of. Also, its even. They both get a shot in and then whatever issue they have is squashed.

The latter is more tricky and inevitably we're going to see Superman have dumbed/powered down in order for Batman to realistically pose a threat to his life. This kind of changes if kryptonite is introduced since that could make Batman a real threat if the effects on Superman are dramatic enough.

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Old 07-28-2013, 09:12 PM   #248
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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Short answer?

Yes, if the writers deem it to be. As with any depiction of Batman with these physically superior beings, it depends on how it is written and presented.
Honestly, I've never, even in the JLA cartoon (which I loved) bought Batman being a physical match in any fight with people of Superman's caliber.

It's just ridiculous, unless he's in an Iron Man type suit, the guy would get crushed in a moment. The only reason I've enjoyed a few of the Supes vs. Batman fights in select comics (TDKR, Hush) is because you know that Superman is holding back, and that's the only reason that Batman is alive.

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You get to see Batman using his superior martial arts to drop Superman, and then you get to see Superman use his superior strength and speed to put Batman down.
See, even in the WF movie I thought that was incredibly stupid. It doesn't matter how good of a martial artist you are, you're dealing with a being that can move faster than you can think, and is so strong he could get hit with a tank missile and barely flinch. Batman being able to flip Superman was foolish. Even if Superman wasn't taking him seriously.

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Old 07-29-2013, 05:34 AM   #249
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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A human vs a superpowered alien. It's as night and day as you can get. I think it's a brilliant scenario. This God ruling the skies, and this low level grit avenger clinging to the shadows, surviving, and hoping to take him down one day. Constantly trying to find a way, but it keeps coming back to Kryptonite.

It troubles Batman's already dark and brooding mind. Knowing Batman would lose, but when the time comes, he simply has to win, is quite thrilling. Like the last scene of Dead End, with those Predators lining up to take on a wounded Batman.
QFE. People by in large won't grasp this.

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Old 07-29-2013, 07:10 AM   #250
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Default Re: Batman Vs. Superman... can this be a fair physical fight?

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Honestly, I've never, even in the JLA cartoon (which I loved) bought Batman being a physical match in any fight with people of Superman's caliber.

It's just ridiculous, unless he's in an Iron Man type suit, the guy would get crushed in a moment. The only reason I've enjoyed a few of the Supes vs. Batman fights in select comics (TDKR, Hush) is because you know that Superman is holding back, and that's the only reason that Batman is alive.



See, even in the WF movie I thought that was incredibly stupid. It doesn't matter how good of a martial artist you are, you're dealing with a being that can move faster than you can think, and is so strong he could get hit with a tank missile and barely flinch. Batman being able to flip Superman was foolish. Even if Superman wasn't taking him seriously.
Batman barely physically approaches opponents from less than two meters in JL fights. He usually keeps his distance. Most of his JL fights compose of him throwing batarangs, smoke bombs, and other weapons + using the dark to his advantage to create distractions for the villain(s) to create a quick opening to then strike. Only in that split second does he approach supervillains with powers up close to take them out. That or he already has a weapon prepared for a particular villain prior to the start of the fight.

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