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Old 08-08-2013, 06:02 PM   #826
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

Yea I'm sad for Hope to, I know how she was so excited seeing the trailers and she got me pumped as well....I'll admit if there was anyone else I was waiting for on this forum to hear what they thought about MOS was Hope....she's like a different poster now...

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Old 08-08-2013, 06:10 PM   #827
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Yea I'm sad for Hope to, I know how she was so excited seeing the trailers and she got me pumped as well....I'll admit if there was anyone else I was waiting for on this forum to hear what they thought about MOS was Hope....she's like a different poster now...
She was the biggest cheerleader for Man of Steel as well. If there was another person who more excited than hopefuldreamer, then I'd like to know who.

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Old 08-08-2013, 06:35 PM   #828
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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The rumours of a Public Enemies influence sparked a bit of interest.

Another writer being brought in maybe? Or the film NOT being named Batman vs Superman, that would improve it a bit.

But no... I don't think i'll be getting my hopes up any time soon.

Snyder and Goyer have set their tone, and created their fictional world. And it's not a tone or world I love.
Though the film didn't disappoint me as much as it did you, I've been feeling similar to what you describe here. I felt dread and disdain when this film was announced, but the Public Enemies mention sparked a bit of enthusiasm in me. I really, really hope against it being named "Batman vs. Superman," and I really would prefer someone else get scripting duties. Give Goyer a story by credit or whatever, but have some else do the heavy lifting on the script.

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Old 08-09-2013, 07:51 AM   #829
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

So yeah Mark Strong's hinting he's Lex...

DREAD

One of these days there's gonna be some news we can all get behind... surely...

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:06 AM   #830
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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So yeah Mark Strong's hinting he's Lex...

DREAD

One of these days there's gonna be some news we can all get behind... surely...
To be honest, I think he could make a great Lex Luthor if portrayed right.

Honestly, I think that if the filmmakers were to reveal that one of the BIGGEST plot points of this new film was to have Superman be the one to be established as the symbol of hope for Humanity by the end of the film, that it would definitely help boost some people's confidences a little bit.

I mean imagine if the film was trying to give both the people in the film and the audiences reasons to root for a certain character to be the "Hero" the world needs between Superman, Lex, and Batman...all representing different aspects of what they could do for humanity, but in the end, it's superman's character and methods that prove that he is the one for the job, with Lex being revealed to be the real villain of the story and Batman potentially learning from his experiences with superman that justice doesn't always have to come from the darkness (something that Bruce Timm's Batman even said in the JLU show)

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:27 AM   #831
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

It just feels like such a soulless casting. Yeah I'm sure we can get a solid performance from Strong, but it'd be nothing we've never seen from him before. Where's the out of the box thinking eg Heath Ledger for Joker.

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:38 AM   #832
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It just feels like such a soulless casting. Yeah I'm sure we can get a solid performance from Strong, but it'd be nothing we've never seen from him before. Where's the out of the box thinking eg Heath Ledger for Joker.
I can agree with that. Heck, if they really wanted a somewhat out of the box thinking, I wouldn't mind seeing Brad Pitt for the role; Pitt certainly has the face where it'd be easier to believe that the public would see him as the ideal "patriot" or charismatic philanthropist,etc.

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:49 AM   #833
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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So yeah Mark Strong's hinting he's Lex...

DREAD

One of these days there's gonna be some news we can all get behind... surely...
Strong is a fantastic actor. Your pessimism is clearly getting the better of you.

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Old 08-09-2013, 09:14 AM   #834
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Strong is a fantastic actor. Your pessimism is clearly getting the better of you.
I like strong and think he would do a great job. I guess I would just hope for more creative casting.

That being said, if he's the right guy for the job, then so be it.

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Old 08-09-2013, 09:47 AM   #835
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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It's sad to see you so defeated, though understandable. You won't be going back to hopefulsuicide will you?
Nah.

Maybe unhopefuldreamer? Hopelessdreamer?



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Yea I'm sad for Hope to, I know how she was so excited seeing the trailers and she got me pumped as well....I'll admit if there was anyone else I was waiting for on this forum to hear what they thought about MOS was Hope....she's like a different poster now...
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She was the biggest cheerleader for Man of Steel as well. If there was another person who more excited than hopefuldreamer, then I'd like to know who.
It's nice to know I made an impression on you guys But sad to be reminded of just how far I had to fall! I blame the misleading marketing!

I think the truth is, I put too much importance on the film, as though it was actually going to visualise everything I love about the character so that I could finally show it to people... And when it didn't I literally grieved for the loss of something that had only existed within my imagination.

But Superman is more than just one interpretation.

He's an idea, and one that can mean so many things to so many people. His is a story that can be told many different ways, and will continue to be.

I know I have an idea of the soul of Superman. It's the same idea Mark Waid and Grant Morrison have. And as much as I think it's sad MOS didn't have it, no one can take that Superman away from me.

He still exists as my favourite character of all time.

I spent most of my life saying 'I love Superman, but not the one from the movies'.I just have yet another movie to add to the list.

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Though the film didn't disappoint me as much as it did you, I've been feeling similar to what you describe here. I felt dread and disdain when this film was announced, but the Public Enemies mention sparked a bit of enthusiasm in me. I really, really hope against it being named "Batman vs. Superman," and I really would prefer someone else get scripting duties. Give Goyer a story by credit or whatever, but have some else do the heavy lifting on the script.
TBH It's less the 'talent' side of things (I.e. The dialogue and flow of the story, which WERE bad), but more the ideas present in the film in general that I take issue with.

Which is crazy for a writer I'd believed to be such a good 'ideas man'.

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Old 08-09-2013, 10:28 AM   #836
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

Was there any redeeming qualities to the film for you hopeful?

That's just what I'm holding on to. There were some scenes that were absolutely perfect to me, and whilst the overall picture was disappointing, I can just love it for those.

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Old 08-09-2013, 11:38 AM   #837
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I never got the "creative casting" argument. Who cares if the casting is obvious if it is still the right choice? Patrick Stewart was the fan favorite to play Charles Xavier for years, ever since ST:TNG, and when they finally cast him, he was perfect in the role.

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Old 08-09-2013, 11:46 AM   #838
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I never got the "creative casting" argument. Who cares if the casting is obvious if it is still the right choice? Patrick Stewart was the fan favorite to play Charles Xavier for years, ever since ST:TNG, and when they finally cast him, he was perfect in the role.
Very good point.

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Old 08-09-2013, 12:01 PM   #839
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Yea I'm sad for Hope to, I know how she was so excited seeing the trailers and she got me pumped as well....I'll admit if there was anyone else I was waiting for on this forum to hear what they thought about MOS was Hope....she's like a different poster now...
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I never got the "creative casting" argument. Who cares if the casting is obvious if it is still the right choice? Patrick Stewart was the fan favorite to play Charles Xavier for years, ever since ST:TNG, and when they finally cast him, he was perfect in the role.
I guess a part of us wants the effect of being blindsided like Ledger (and Keaton, to an extent). But having an actor who perfectly suits the role seems even better.

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Old 08-09-2013, 12:51 PM   #840
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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She was the biggest cheerleader for Man of Steel as well. If there was another person who more excited than hopefuldreamer, then I'd like to know who.
I think you'll find I was

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Old 08-09-2013, 01:27 PM   #841
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I never got the "creative casting" argument. Who cares if the casting is obvious if it is still the right choice? Patrick Stewart was the fan favorite to play Charles Xavier for years, ever since ST:TNG, and when they finally cast him, he was perfect in the role.
A little different situation than with Mark Strong, which is what I'm assuming you're talking about. When has Strong been the fan favorite for Lex? All the time, I see different names being dropped, everywhere. No clear consensus. Also, Strong is no Patrick Stewart. Even before X-Men, I think he had a pretty broad appeal across both fan and general audiences. Ask people if they know Mark Strong, I'm betting you'll be met with, "Who?"

Creative casting, I think, refers to casting someone who will not only do the role justice, but also bring a certain level of excitement and attention to the project. Maybe it's because they weren't people's first idea for the part.

("Heath Ledger? The Joker? Really?" - Me, circa 2006)

Stewart may have been an obvious, or the obvious, choice for Xavier, but again, broad appeal and a certain "Who else?" flavor. Ledger, on the other hand, brought attention by being a surprise to most people, but leaving a lasting impression of, obviously, he was perfect.

I think that's at least one way of looking at what people hope for from creative casting.

Or maybe I'm just full of it.

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Old 08-09-2013, 01:35 PM   #842
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I never got the "creative casting" argument. Who cares if the casting is obvious if it is still the right choice? Patrick Stewart was the fan favorite to play Charles Xavier for years, ever since ST:TNG, and when they finally cast him, he was perfect in the role.
Well, for me it's not really a matter of creativity with the casting, it's creativity in regards to the portrayal of the character. Mark Strong will probably play a decent Lex Luthor, but he'll play him pretty much the same as he played the bad guy in Sherlock Holmes: A smug, wealthy, power hungry criminal mastermind. That's fine, but that's a pretty shallow interpretation of who Lex Luthor is and what he's about.

Heath Ledger was a good example of "creative casting," not because he was someone you wouldn't expect, but because he brought a lot of nuance and depth to the role that other, more obvious choices might not have. A pretty common suggestion for The Joker before Ledger was cast was Crispin Glover. Glover would have played the role fine, but he would have played a pretty standard Joker. He would have played a manic sadistic sociopath with a dry wit who laughs a lot. That's fine for The Joker, and Glover would have done that really well, but he wouldn't have played the role as the disassociated absurdist performance criminal like Ledger did. Ledger took the same concept and the same material but he brought a richness to it that really made the character come to life.

Same with Strong and Luthor. Strong will probably play a pretty standard interpretation of Luthor, and he'll do a good job with it. But I doubt he'll bring the kind of creativity and richness to the part that will really make the character pop.

Me, personally, I think Viggo Mortensen would make the ideal Lex Luthor. I think he'd take the same material and the same concept and work some real magic with it.

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Old 08-09-2013, 01:53 PM   #843
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Was there any redeeming qualities to the film for you hopeful?

That's just what I'm holding on to. There were some scenes that were absolutely perfect to me, and whilst the overall picture was disappointing, I can just love it for those.
Henry Cavill.

Though TBH, it's not even really a redeeming quality. Feels more like a twist of the knife. Because now I know a man who was SO perfect for the role to me, will never be able to portray a Superman I can fully enjoy.

Though I sort of feel like that about all the cast. I mean they were perfect for their respective roles, it's just the way the characters were written that I didn't like.

It's so weird wondering how Batman is going to come across this time.

Will Goyer put in characteristics he wanted to before but wasn't allowed to by Nolan? Will bad writing make even his Batman come across wrong?

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Old 08-09-2013, 02:00 PM   #844
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Hope springs eternal!

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Old 08-09-2013, 02:51 PM   #845
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I'm not necessarily speaking about Strong specifically, I'd want either Michael C. Hall, Jon Hamm, or Billy Zane to play Lex myself. I was merely pointing out that getting creative with your casting isn't always a good thing. Sometimes, the obvious choice is obvious because it is the best choice. Besides, whenever the do think outside the box with casting, we have to listen to certain fanboys whine constantly about how terrible the choice was until the movie comes out, which is annoying. Ledger, Hathaway, Chris Evans, and Emma Stone are just a couple of examples.

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Old 08-09-2013, 03:19 PM   #846
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I dread casting the guy who played Dredd.

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Old 08-09-2013, 03:47 PM   #847
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I'm not necessarily speaking about Strong specifically, I'd want either Michael C. Hall, Jon Hamm, or Billy Zane to play Lex myself. I was merely pointing out that getting creative with your casting isn't always a good thing. Sometimes, the obvious choice is obvious because it is the best choice. Besides, whenever the do think outside the box with casting, we have to listen to certain fanboys whine constantly about how terrible the choice was until the movie comes out, which is annoying. Ledger, Hathaway, Chris Evans, and Emma Stone are just a couple of examples.
In what way is Billy Zane the best choice?

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Old 08-09-2013, 04:13 PM   #848
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I didn't say he was the best choice, Michael C. Hall would be the best choice. But he is a good actor who can play charming and menacing. I also buy him as a rich douche.

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Old 08-09-2013, 04:29 PM   #849
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In what way is Billy Zane the best choice?
Cause he's bald and Razors are expensive

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Old 08-09-2013, 04:37 PM   #850
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

It's true. Zane could save WB up to $100m in hairdressing.

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