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Old 08-10-2013, 12:46 AM   #726
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

It would work if done right. Especially with FF's reboot, they could find a way on how to integrate Fantastic 4 to the X-Men's universe.

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Old 08-10-2013, 11:30 AM   #727
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

It just takes the right story. I don't think the FF would be ready for it after one film. You kinda need Franklin to make it work. Or you could use the FF to bring in the Shi'ar, but that's not as personal, y'know? Of course... they could do both...

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Old 08-10-2013, 11:57 AM   #728
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

Is it possible for a talented writer to create a compelling FF - X Men crossover? Probably, but the minimal interaction between the two teams during 50 years of sharing the 616 universe confirms what many of the posters are saying - the two teams are extremely poor dance partners.

And let's forget for a moment about the potential long term damage to the MCU from losing the First Family until the 2020s. What does FOX have to gain by adding a colorfully attired family of space explorers to Singer's universe? Though they have burned through way too many characters with pointless cameos, FOX has access to super humanly powered brutes, youthful flame projectors, levitating females and big brains. I'm not certain that they have a mutant stretchy guy, but adding one shouldn't be a problem. By adding four characters that don't at all match up with the universe Singer has created, FOX would be harming both the MCU and the FOX X-Men. All fans of comicbook movies should be opposed to this happening.

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:31 PM   #729
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

Franklin Richards is a mutant and a very powerful one at it. Him becoming a mutant makes the X-men the Richards families struggle. That is all that is needed to connect them how could a parent not fear for their child when people like them are being rounded up and put in camps.

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:40 PM   #730
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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Franklin Richards is a mutant and a very powerful one at it. Him becoming a mutant makes the X-men the Richards families struggle. That is all that is needed to connect them how could a parent not fear for their child when people like them are being rounded up and put in camps.
It still wouldn't work. The F4 are celebrated, but their child is not because he was born with powers while they are not?
It doesn't make sense for the parents with superpowers to be accepted, but their superpowered child isn't for some some mysterious reason.

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Old 08-10-2013, 02:00 PM   #731
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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It still wouldn't work. The F4 are celebrated, but their child is not because he was born with powers while they are not?
It doesn't make sense for the parents with superpowers to be accepted, but their superpowered child isn't for some some mysterious reason.
Being a mutant is like being gay, a minority or different in some way that isn't acceptable by society. So for example a white family in 1950's South Africa had a black baby. Even though she was born to white parents who were accepted she was treated with all the vile mean discontent as the black people were at that time.Bigots don't care who your parents are or what kind of power you may yield. It would be naive to believe because he comes from celebrated acceptable family this would somehow shield him from the bigotry of being mutant.

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Old 08-10-2013, 03:41 PM   #732
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

The F4 in the X universe just doesn't work, that's what I am trying to say. The only difference between the F4 and mutants is that muntants were born with powers while the F4 accidentally got them. Both groups have awesome dangerous powers and the public should be scared of both of them equally, it just wouldn't make sense otherwise. To put these two groups together would involve ignoring that the X universe hates mutants because they are different and their powers are considered dangerous, the F4 are different and have dangerous powers. There would be no good reason why they are pardoned while mutants are ostracised.

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Old 08-10-2013, 06:42 PM   #733
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

I would respond with the F4 are humans who have gained their by powers through an anomaly. While the X-men are part of an evolutionary process that without intervention would gradually wipe out the human race like it did with Cro-magnon men and the Neanderthals. They fear them because of their freaky powers too but being wiped out of existence is just as strong a urge to kill mutants.

The F4 being open to the world about their powers would go along way with a majority of the public. Of course you would suspect the Authorities having a different view on the matter. If they saved the world from an interdimensial invasion led by Annihilus and his army from the negative zone that could go a long way in the public perspective. The X-Men's struggle in the movies have been about equality and stopping the Brotherhood from doing something to incite a war. Nothing they've done thus far has helped the public at large.

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Old 08-10-2013, 07:06 PM   #734
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

The X-Men have always had trouble fitting into the Marvel universe as a whole. It takes a certain level of suspense of disbelief to accept the fact that, in a world inhabited by so many superheroes that were not born with powers, people born with powers are discriminated towards and not accepted by society. Sure that there are ways to make it work - i.e. the Stan Lee approach or the "we fear them because they will take over the human race" approach - but if in the X-Men comics themselves, it seems that mutants are feared for the most part simply because they have powers. The same argument could be applied to the mutates. On top of that, the X-Men universe at large is almost about the same size as the rest of the Marvel universe and whenever there is a big Marvel Universe event, the X-Men seem to be excluded for the most part other than Wolverine and a few other mutants. Same thing applies to the rest of Marvel whenever there is a big global X-Men event.

Like I said, there are ways to make the X-Men believably coexist with the rest of Marvel but I don't see Fox being able to pull it off especially with a property as lighthearted as the Fantastic Four.

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Old 08-11-2013, 06:14 AM   #735
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

The "why are mutants hated but not superheroes" thing is not a problem if handled right, like most of the times in the comics, where it totally works for me.

In some ways it can even make the outcast/bigotry metaphor even stronger.

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Old 08-11-2013, 06:42 PM   #736
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

I am not going to keep my hopes up, and will assume the worst. That the rights will not revert. I just pray to God that they get at least the characters right and have amazing action. The story is just as important, but like all comic book movies it will not be exactly like the comic. So therefore the characters have to be great for me to ever enjoy the film. Doom has to be terrifyingly brilliant, Reed has to be a convincing genius whilst also making science look cool. The Johnny and Ben from the previous films were great, the script let them down. Sue has to be the most powerful as well as the mother of the group.

The effects have to be amazing also, Ben should be all CGI. Reed's stretching needs to look as real as possible and not cartoony. Johnny's and Sue's powers were done o.k for their time, but need improvements as well. Sue's invisibility is easy but her force fields should look more like glass in my opinion. Johnny while on fire the flames need to look more like real flames.

If Fox does this then they have redeemed themselves in my eyes at least. I still never want a F4/X-Men crossover.

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Old 08-12-2013, 12:49 AM   #737
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

The Fantastic Four and X-men crossovers have never been very good... the two teams just have never made much sense in a cross over other than Onslaught....

Wolverine sure, makes more sense crossing over with Thing... but other than that and Onslaught it's always come off forceful. There's really nothing one team needs from the other

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Old 08-12-2013, 01:12 AM   #738
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

It's far easier to say "it's easy for a good screenwriter to come up with etc" than it is for someone to actually make a crap idea work. Forget it, it's done.

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Old 08-12-2013, 07:41 AM   #739
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

I bet my socks FOX will make the movie.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:13 AM   #740
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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I bet my socks FOX will make the movie.
Though I refuse to wager any footwear, my guess is that FOX would love an excuse not to put this film into production, and I will "keep hope alive" that Disney/Marvel will give them a reason to put this turkey out of its misery.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:35 AM   #741
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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I am not going to keep my hopes up, and will assume the worst.
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I bet my socks FOX will make the movie.
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Though I refuse to wager any footwear, my guess is that FOX would love an excuse not to put this film into production, and I will "keep hope alive" that Disney/Marvel will give them a reason to put this turkey out of its misery.
I'm at about 60% right now that Fox will make it, but I think that 40% possibility that they won't is very real. . . at the moment. Things could shift very dramatically if we get any real news from FOX. But the fact that there has been almost nothing directly from FOX with a scheduled production start in September makes me seriously question their will to do it.

As for a crossover, one of my biggest concerns is that there are just too man characters and trying to tell a story with that many characters is likely to be a mess.

I'd be more interested in a Cyclops / Torch or Thing / Wolverine team-up than a large-scale story that tries to bring both teams together.

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:40 AM   #742
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

I don't think Marvel are better than FOX, both studios just want your buck but Marvel has hired more of the right people. The only reason I want F4 back at Marvel is because their potential can be maximised more.

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Old 08-12-2013, 01:58 PM   #743
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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I don't think Marvel are better than FOX, both studios just want your buck but Marvel has hired more of the right people. The only reason I want F4 back at Marvel is because their potential can be maximised more.
Marvel / Disney certainly isn't perfect, but I think they value the characters and the heritage more than Fox, and they also recognize the long-term potential for future films, merchandising etc. if they do things right.

Every film Marvel has done has been better than Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Elektra and several others, so I feel that ( so far at least ) they can be trusted more than Fox to maintain at least a certain minimal level of quality.

I feel like we'll probably get a mediocre or good film with Marvel while it's entirely possible that Fox will give us a terrible film like they have in the past.

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Old 08-12-2013, 05:51 PM   #744
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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I'd be more interested in a Cyclops / Torch or Thing / Wolverine team-up than a large-scale story that tries to bring both teams together.
That's actually a good point, an FF/X-Men film would have to focus on only a few X-Men, or just one or two characters and keep the rest more of background. Thing/Wolverine is probably the most likely pair to focus on. Everything else will be more of fun nods, Beast and Reed in the lab, Torch and Iceman on the town with Invisible Woman watching over Franklin while the other X-Men help protect him.

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The F4 in the X universe just doesn't work, that's what I am trying to say. The only difference between the F4 and mutants is that muntants were born with powers while the F4 accidentally got them. Both groups have awesome dangerous powers and the public should be scared of both of them equally, it just wouldn't make sense otherwise. To put these two groups together would involve ignoring that the X universe hates mutants because they are different and their powers are considered dangerous, the F4 are different and have dangerous powers. There would be no good reason why they are pardoned while mutants are ostracised.
1) Cuz people are jerks. They could very easily blame the mutants for corrupting the good FF's pure and noble DNA.

2) Because Franklin Richards is terribly powerful and thus terribly dangerous in his own right, regardless of what his powers are. Him being a mutant is just that much worse.

3) The public may not know Franklin is a mutant, or he's seen as a 'good mutant' because he's the FF's kid.

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Old 08-12-2013, 07:47 PM   #745
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1) Cuz people are jerks. They could very easily blame the mutants for corrupting the good FF's pure and noble DNA.

2) Because Franklin Richards is terribly powerful and thus terribly dangerous in his own right, regardless of what his powers are. Him being a mutant is just that much worse.

3) The public may not know Franklin is a mutant, or he's seen as a 'good mutant' because he's the FF's kid.



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Old 08-15-2013, 03:56 PM   #746
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

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You feel it doesn't fit... and can't explain why because of your false assumption. You assume that if the public is scared of one powerful person, they will be equally scared of all people with the same power.

Police. Mafia.

Soldier. Insurgents.

The Avengers. The Chitauri.

In some cases the *more* powerful person is less feared because they are interpreted as being 'on our side,' that is, they are held accountable for protecting us. They are under the law. They are open to public scrutiny. They are limited in number and easily identifiable. So they are 'safe,' or at least, as safe as any other armed person. The Fantastic Four is one such group. The mutants are not. Not only are they mysterious and unknown, and uncontrolled, their abilities run the gamut from world ending (like Franklin) to removal of free will (Jean Grey, Professor X, Emma Frost, Psylocke, and more!)

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Old 08-16-2013, 09:04 AM   #747
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You feel it doesn't fit... and can't explain why because of your false assumption. You assume that if the public is scared of one powerful person, they will be equally scared of all people with the same power.

Police. Mafia.

Soldier. Insurgents.

The Avengers. The Chitauri.

In some cases the *more* powerful person is less feared because they are interpreted as being 'on our side,' that is, they are held accountable for protecting us. They are under the law. They are open to public scrutiny. They are limited in number and easily identifiable. So they are 'safe,' or at least, as safe as any other armed person. The Fantastic Four is one such group. The mutants are not. Not only are they mysterious and unknown, and uncontrolled, their abilities run the gamut from world ending (like Franklin) to removal of free will (Jean Grey, Professor X, Emma Frost, Psylocke, and more!)
Good explanation.

Here's a good example of it too, I think...

First, pretend that the FF is a man and a woman who are big into anal sex.

Then pretend that the X-Men is a man and a man who are big into anal sex.

Now not everybody in the world, but a lot of people are gonna be more grossed out or upset thinking about what the X-Men did last night than what the FF did last night.

It doesn't make any rational sense, but i guess people usually aren't that rational about picking what to demonize. haha.

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Old 08-16-2013, 12:48 PM   #748
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

^^ that's a really stupid analogy, sense or not

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Old 08-16-2013, 01:22 PM   #749
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread

People on this thread will be disappointed come 2015.

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Old 08-16-2013, 03:15 PM   #750
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People on this thread will be disappointed come 2015.
Already disappointed. And when this movie does come out the GA will be too. Bomb in the making. The only smart thing for Fox to do is sell. But, we all know what the smart financial play is for Fox. The question remains do they know. All I know if they did it before (ala Daredevil) it stand a decent chance they'll do it again when the time ticks down to rights reversion.
The FF are not a profitable franchise outside the MCU like the X-verse is. FACT.

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