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Old 08-07-2013, 09:53 PM   #101
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

It had action all through it.
Wow moments-Bullet Train scene, Shingen fight, love motel scene (that was just funny), anytime Yukio was onscreen.
Badass Wolverine-Protecting Mariko despite being shot over a dozen times, beaten, stabbed in the back, etc. Giving himself open heart surgery without medication. Kicking Shingen, a master swordsmen and martial artists, ass, staying upright despite twenty arrows and chains stuck in his body, etc. Also, if you want to start arguing about what is and isn't necessary in a CBM, we'll be here for days. Was the Tesseract necessary for the TA, not really. Did it work in context, yes.

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Old 08-08-2013, 01:23 AM   #102
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

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Too little action for a Wolverine film

Too few mutants

No "WOW" moments

Wolverine didn't act like a badass in this film. He didn't talk back as much and he didn't cuss as much.
Thats very odd because the film I watched he did all of these things.

It is clearly a different film you watched.

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Old 08-08-2013, 01:32 AM   #103
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Thats very odd because the film I watched he did all of these things.

It is clearly a different film you watched.
And even moreso than normal.

He cussed more, and talked more junk than normal. He had a lot of one-liners in The Wolverine.

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Old 08-08-2013, 09:37 AM   #104
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

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Wolverine tells Jean he loves her right before he kills her in X:TLS. I rewatched the movie before seeing the new one.
Yep, I know that, but this was after Jean had come onto him strongly and Scott was gone, at the start of the movie, after in X2 Jean chose Scott, Logan was telling Scott to move on, again doesnt really sound like someone who loved her that much.

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Old 08-08-2013, 10:05 AM   #105
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Yep, I know that, but this was after Jean had come onto him strongly and Scott was gone, at the start of the movie, after in X2 Jean chose Scott, Logan was telling Scott to move on, again doesnt really sound like someone who loved her that much.
Wolverine said he knows how Scott feels. "Maybe it's time for us to move on." He has a peculiar look on his face after Scott tells him that "Not everybody heals as fast as you, Logan." And then Wolverine just can't help himself later on when she returns and leave her alone and starts arguing with Xavier. I think he was just keeping his feelings bottled up on the inside.

Though I do get what you're saying, Cyclops acted overtly more like the depressed and ornery one over Jean's death/disappearance than Wolverine.

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Old 08-08-2013, 11:39 PM   #106
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Wolverine said he knows how Scott feels. "Maybe it's time for us to move on." He has a peculiar look on his face after Scott tells him that "Not everybody heals as fast as you, Logan." And then Wolverine just can't help himself later on when she returns and leave her alone and starts arguing with Xavier. I think he was just keeping his feelings bottled up on the inside.

Though I do get what you're saying, Cyclops acted overtly more like the depressed and ornery one over Jean's death/disappearance than Wolverine.
Exactly, Wolverine moved on pretty quickly considering he was supposed to be madly in love with this woman, he wasnt even slightly depressed at the start of X3. Its why I find his love for Jean throughout the rest of that movie and throughout The Wolverine a bit forced and fake, as Scott was the one who was truly in love with her, and she chose Scott in X2 when Logan pushed her. I think it would have been better if in TW Logan was haunted by all the people he killed, or even all of the women he lost, it would have fit the character more IMO and would have made things more desperate for Logan himself if he is having dreams about all of these people/women he cant even remember. Then I would have more readily accepted him wanting to die during the movie.

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:03 AM   #107
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Exactly, Wolverine moved on pretty quickly considering he was supposed to be madly in love with this woman, he wasnt even slightly depressed at the start of X3. Its why I find his love for Jean throughout the rest of that movie and throughout The Wolverine a bit forced and fake, as Scott was the one who was truly in love with her, and she chose Scott in X2 when Logan pushed her. I think it would have been better if in TW Logan was haunted by all the people he killed, or even all of the women he lost, it would have fit the character more IMO and would have made things more desperate for Logan himself if he is having dreams about all of these people/women he cant even remember. Then I would have more readily accepted him wanting to die during the movie.

In my opinion, it would only feel fake or forced if you really care about what happened in previous movies.This movie was meant to be somewhat of a stand alone. It's great if you've been following all the X-men movies, but it's not necessary. It's all self contained for the most part.

To focus on Logan being tormented by all the people he killed would make him a stereo typical remorseful killer.Seen too many of that type of character in movies, videogames etc.

And i much preffered the way they've done it in the movie than to have him mourn over multiple love lost.I like the one on one interaction between Logan and Jean, It gave us a much better look into his fractured psyche.Can't really do that if the movie makes him mourn multiple love lost.

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Old 08-09-2013, 11:29 AM   #108
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

my only major complaints about the film is the climax and how Silver Samurai was handled

other than that, it was a solid film

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Old 08-09-2013, 12:14 PM   #109
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

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Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON
Its why I find his love for Jean throughout the rest of that movie and throughout The Wolverine a bit forced and fake, as Scott was the one who was truly in love with her
Can't they both have been in love with her?

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Old 08-09-2013, 12:53 PM   #110
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

He was more obsessed with her. He knew her for a week and then another couple days. Then knew her as Dark Phoenix for a couple days and killed her.

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Old 08-09-2013, 01:02 PM   #111
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

Just because Logan "moved on", or more likely, was just bottling up his feelings, doesn't mean he didn't love Jean.

You can love someone, and still move on with your life when that person leaves your life or dies.

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Old 08-09-2013, 01:09 PM   #112
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

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Can't they both have been in love with her?
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Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay View Post
Just because Logan "moved on", or more likely, was just bottling up his feelings, doesn't mean he didn't love Jean.

You can love someone, and still move on with your life when that person leaves your life or dies.

Oh so simple, but oh so correct too.

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Old 08-09-2013, 01:29 PM   #113
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

They both loved Jean, and they were both clearly devastated by her death. By X3, Logan had managed to pick himself back up and start to move on, but Scott was lost in his depression. Which makes sense, since Jean was his girl. Didn't mean Logan wasn't still hurting over it, he was just dealing with it better than Scott was. When he suggested that it was time to move on, he was trying to help.

But there's a big difference between someone you care about dying from something that was beyond your control, and someone dying by your own hand. Logan had to kill Jean, who he obviously cared about and wanted to save. They also lost the Professor and Scott. They were all devastating losses, and having to kill someone you care about is not an easy thing to get over.

Logan has never been at peace with himself over his, and he's haunted by things he barely remembers. So having something terrible happen to go with that makes living with himself even harder. The movie opens with him having a nightmare during a nightmare. It's not difficult to see how all of things can screw someone up.

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Old 08-11-2013, 02:27 PM   #114
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My main complaints:

-Wolverine remembering what happened in WWII for no reason, this could have been handled way better, specially when the previous Wolverine movie showed us how he lost his memories (which I found kind of stupid, tbh, the "adamantium bullet" thing was an awfull idea). I've read the thread ralking about this and how somepeople think that it makes sense that he is recovering some memories, but the way it's handled in this movie seems like if he just remembered it without a single problem, it's all like:

Yukio: "Do you remember that japanese guy that you saved 70 years ago?"

FLASHBACK

Wolvie: "Oh, yeah, sure, how is he doing?"



-The lack of "Wolverine vs ninjas" stuff. In a movie with Wolverine in Japan everybody wants to see him fighting ninjas. There was a promotional poster with lots of ninjas, even a trailer where all the ninjas are shown and Wolvie asks if they couldn't bring a few more, but then you are watching the movie and after asking for more ninjas he just runs away like a pussy, he is not even able to turn around and stop the arrows with his claws, he just runs like Forrest until he is ko. LAME.

-Yeah, he liked Jean and he killed her, but she was not his girlfriend, the dream sequences din't make much sense imo.

-Sometimes the movie felt like if it was "Elektra 2: Starring Wolverine".

-Wolverine loses his adamantium claws, the ultimate "frak you" to the fans. LOL. It was like if the Fox executives thought:

Fox: "What has been the most controversial and hated moment in the last 20 years of Wolverine's history?"

Writer: "When he lost his adamantium and Marvel gave him bone claws instead."

Fox: "Yeah, add that to the script, it will be awesome."


I don't know how DOTFP will handle all the cr*p from all the last mutant movies, there is so much stuff waiting to be fixed that I almost wish that they just rebooted the whole franchise. A shame, because I really liked the first 2 movies.

The Wolverine would have been ok if they had handled the stuff above a little bit better, and like with MOS, I hope that some day a director's cut is released and fixes a few of their problems.


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Old 08-11-2013, 03:38 PM   #115
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My main complaints:

-Wolverine remembering what happened in WWII for no reason, this could have been handled way better, specially when the previous Wolverine movie showed us how he lost his memories (which I found kind of stupid, tbh, the "adamantium bullet" thing was an awfull idea). I've read the thread ralking about this and how somepeople think that it makes sense that he is recovering some memories, but the way it's handled in this movie seems like if he just remembered it without a single problem, it's all like:

Yukio: "Do you remember that japanese guy that you saved 70 years ago?"

FLASHBACK

Wolvie: "Oh, yeah, sure, how is he doing?"



-The lack of "Wolverine vs ninjas" stuff. In a movie with Wolverine in Japan everybody wants to see him fighting ninjas. There was a promotional poster with lots of ninjas, even a trailer where all the ninjas are shown and Wolvie asks if they couldn't bring a few more, but then you are watching the movie and after asking for more ninjas he just runs away like a pussy, he is not even able to turn around and stop the arrows with his claws, he just runs like Forrest until he is ko. LAME.

-Yeah, he liked Jean and he killed her, but she was not his girlfriend, the dream sequences din't make much sense imo.

-Sometimes the movie felt like if it was "Elektra 2: Starring Wolverine".

-Wolverine loses his adamantium claws, the ultimate "frak you" to the fans. LOL. It was like if the Fox executives thought:

Fox: "What has been the most controversial and hated moment in the last 20 years of Wolverine's history?"

Writer: "When he lost his adamantium and Marvel gave him bone claws instead."

Fox: "Yeah, add that to the script, it will be awesome."


I don't know how DOTFP will handle all the cr*p from all the last mutant movies, there is so much stuff waiting to be fixed that I almost wish that they just rebooted the whole franchise. A shame, because I really liked the first 2 movies.

The Wolverine would have been ok if they had handled the stuff above a little bit better, and like with MOS, I hope that some day a director's cut is released and fixes a few of their problems.
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Old 08-11-2013, 03:46 PM   #116
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I'm instantly wary of someone who thinks 'God' is a good profile name for them to use... You are NOT God, I just need to burst that bubble very quickly for you.
How do you know that I'm not really GOD? Have you come to Heaven as of lately to check out if I was registered here?

And how is "X-maniac" a better username? It makes you look like some kind of porn obsessed freak, and that's ok, but do you feel guilty every time that you take a look at your porn collection and you realize that I'm watching you from Heaven?

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Old 08-11-2013, 03:53 PM   #117
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How do you know that I'm not really GOD? Have you come to Heaven as of lately to check out if I was registered here?

And how is "X-maniac" a better username? It makes you look like some kind of porn obsessed freak, and that's ok, but do you feel guilty every time that you take a look at your porn collection and you realize that I'm watching you from Heaven?
Stop this line of talk now....do not disrespect other's religious beliefs and there is no need for the porn insinuation remark. Post civil and respectfully or I will make it so you don't post again.

Got it?

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:12 PM   #118
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How do you know that I'm not really GOD? Have you come to Heaven as of lately to check out if I was registered here?

And how is "X-maniac" a better username? It makes you look like some kind of porn obsessed freak, and that's ok, but do you feel guilty every time that you take a look at your porn collection and you realize that I'm watching you from Heaven?
The thing is that your username instantly makes you sound as if you think you are a superior being who is better than everyone else on here. I'm just saying it's not a good start, it immediately gets people's backs up. And that's without taking into account religious beliefs.

X-Maniac simply means I am a lover of X-Men.

X-Men... X-Man... X-Man-iac...

I have no interest in porn at all. Total waste of time.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:45 PM   #119
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So...there's not much I disliked about the movie besides what I've posted before.

I was trying to rack my brain about third acts of movies that I've hated, because I often embrace a change-up in the third act, and the only recent one that comes to mind is Super 8. That movie lost me around that time.

I want to see some Yuki sword stunt on the plow or bike or whatever is going on in the extended cut with Wolverine and the ninjas! But I try to judge a movie for what is as much as possible, and something that small isn't much of a factor.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:52 PM   #120
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Default Re: What didn't you like about the film?

I usually find that any niggles i have about a movie will seem less significant the second time.

I find the same when I first listen to a CD (yes, I'm still buying music in the physical form, anyone can have an mp3 collection of electronic data on their computer but I'd rather something tangible). The first time I hear a CD I am critical and on edge. A second listen normally smoothes things out for me.

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Old 08-11-2013, 05:07 PM   #121
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The WWII-thingie did seem random... I had the feeling that they had been trying to figure out which time setting could be used without contradicting the other films while having the audience have a particular relation to this specific time. I mean, WWII is still a touchy subject, makes up for a 'good film set up' and provides enough drama and action to start a film with. Plus, so far, we have experienced Wolverine in a lot of different settings, and WWII seemed to be the easiest choice to continue/start with.
It appeared to be more of an arbitrary decision though - as I am not too familiar with the comic books and have seen the other films only once or twice I am part of the 'average-knowledge-audience'- so it made me wonder what on earth Wolverine was doing in Japan during WWII.
For me personally, this had the consequence that the character Wolverine seemed even more impalpable, distant, mysterious. I have never actually felt anything for the character, as in 'Do I like him now? - Do I hate him? - Sympathy? Maybe yes, maybe no...I don't know.'

Throughout the film, though, I did actually get the feeling - ah, I start to understand this guy - mainly because I started to understand his relationship to Jean.

Another thing I didn't quite enjoy: If he's mortal/violable...why didn't his claws leave bleeding gaps? Or did I miss some essential information about them?

Also, while at some point I started to have the feeling that I'm getting the grip on the character I thought that the train and heart surgery scenes were unnecessarily over the top. I love over the top-ness but I had just gotten used to the idea that we get more character explanation/development and really enjoyed to see a somehow different Wolverine and then these scenes drop by and cut the connection I'd built up to the character moments before.

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Old 08-11-2013, 05:35 PM   #122
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The WWII-thingie did seem random... I had the feeling that they had been trying to figure out which time setting could be used without contradicting the other films while having the audience have a particular relation to this specific time. I mean, WWII is still a touchy subject, makes up for a 'good film set up' and provides enough drama and action to start a film with. Plus, so far, we have experienced Wolverine in a lot of different settings, and WWII seemed to be the easiest choice to continue/start with.
It appeared to be more of an arbitrary decision though - as I am not too familiar with the comic books and have seen the other films only once or twice I am part of the 'average-knowledge-audience'- so it made me wonder what on earth Wolverine was doing in Japan during WWII.
For me personally, this had the consequence that the character Wolverine seemed even more impalpable, distant, mysterious. I have never actually felt anything for the character, as in 'Do I like him now? - Do I hate him? - Sympathy? Maybe yes, maybe no...I don't know.'
The WW2 thinggie is not exactly random when it comes to Logan.In the comics, it was stated that he was at one point in the RCAF ( Royal Canadian Airforce).

He fought in WW2, and my knowledge in that subject is more than rusty, but the RCAF were in Asia during WW2.Their 6th division were trained to take part in 'operation downfall' which was the codename for the allied plan to invade Japan at that time (someone correct me if i'm wrong on this btw)

Anyway..yeah..Logan was often portrayed as someone who fought in WW2.As a matter of fact, one of my fav Wolverine story EVER is from issue 34. If they ever decide to show Logan fighting in the WW2 again, they should chose that scene where he charged an SS batallion with nothing but a knife!

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Old 08-11-2013, 05:46 PM   #123
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it started off in WW2 because Mangold said in some interview that he loves the opening of the first X-Men film in the concentration camp in WW2 and it set the tone for the rest of the film and he wanted an opening like that to The Wolverine.

Plus, the writers had to think of a different reason why he goes to Japan because before the Japanese Saga starts, Logan is already in love with Mariko and he's been to Japan before on a mission with the X-Men and met Sunfire. But in the film universe that never happened and you can't expect the general audience to accept that he's been before without 20 minutes of exposition, so they treated it like this was his first time to Japan, so the opening scene in WW2 sets the plot in motion and is logical reason why he goes to Japan.

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Old 08-11-2013, 05:47 PM   #124
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The WW2 thinggie is not exactly random when it comes to Logan.In the comics, it was stated that he was at one point in the RCAF ( Royal Canadian Airforce).

He fought in WW2, and my knowledge in that subject is more than rusty, but the RCAF were in Asia during WW2.Their 6th division were trained to take part in 'operation downfall' which was the codename for the allied plan to invade Japan at that time (someone correct me if i'm wrong on this btw)

Anyway..yeah..Logan was often portrayed as someone who fought in WW2.As a matter of fact, one of my fav Wolverine story EVER is from issue 34. If they ever decide to show Logan fighting in the WW2 again, they should chose that scene where he charged an SS batallion with nothing but a knife!
Thanks! I guessed that in terms of the comic books, WWII did play a more important role... I just thought that, judging by but the films, it came off as random, or rather contextless (for those not familiar with the comic books of course).

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Old 08-11-2013, 05:54 PM   #125
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The WWII-thingie did seem random... I had the feeling that they had been trying to figure out which time setting could be used without contradicting the other films while having the audience have a particular relation to this specific time. I mean, WWII is still a touchy subject, makes up for a 'good film set up' and provides enough drama and action to start a film with. Plus, so far, we have experienced Wolverine in a lot of different settings, and WWII seemed to be the easiest choice to continue/start with.
It appeared to be more of an arbitrary decision though - as I am not too familiar with the comic books and have seen the other films only once or twice I am part of the 'average-knowledge-audience'- so it made me wonder what on earth Wolverine was doing in Japan during WWII.
For me personally, this had the consequence that the character Wolverine seemed even more impalpable, distant, mysterious. I have never actually felt anything for the character, as in 'Do I like him now? - Do I hate him? - Sympathy? Maybe yes, maybe no...I don't know.'
Not at all random or arbitrary but the narrative structure that led to Wolverine getting on that plane to go to Japan. i thought it worked fine.

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Another thing I didn't quite enjoy: If he's mortal/violable...why didn't his claws leave bleeding gaps? Or did I miss some essential information about them?
No idea about the claws thing. It's a minor point. We've never ever seen his skin ripping, bleeding and healing where the claws come out, so they evidently stuck with that idea during the time he wasn't healing as much. Could be to do with the rating, could be just a visual choice.

Quote:
Also, while at some point I started to have the feeling that I'm getting the grip on the character I thought that the train and heart surgery scenes were unnecessarily over the top. I love over the top-ness but I had just gotten used to the idea that we get more character explanation/development and really enjoyed to see a somehow different Wolverine and then these scenes drop by and cut the connection I'd built up to the character moments before.
I loved that bullet train sequence. I don't see how an action scene ruins all the characterisation that comes before or after it. That characterisation still exists.

And the heart surgery scene was him overcoming the suppression of his healing power. There had to be some sort of mechanism for the suppression of that mutant power, and therefore that mechanism would then be removed.
It was cleverly done to keep a 12A rating. It was also there to follow on from Yukio's revelation that she saw him die, and thus introducing the idea of vulnerability. I actually thought he was going to die in this film, I really did. Not during the surgery, but nonetheless it was to show the real danger he was in.

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