Lol...if i didn´t know the critics and GA´s score for this movie...

[Green Goblin]

I thought TDKR bashing stopped after the announcement of the Batman/Superman film? Guess I'm wrong.

[justpassinby]

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder

I thought TDKR bashing stopped after the announcement of the Batman/Superman film? Guess I'm wrong.

The longer it keeps going, the more "test of time" points to the series (at least the first two, but this one as well) - so why not be happy instead? They still ***** about Return of the Jedi after 40 years, and he prequels after 10, imagine if they do that with Rises.

... Or it'll be forgotten cause meh. Take your pick.

[Snow Queen]

Difference is, the prequels are almost universally disliked to meh. Rises, on the other hand, is a lot more well liked. I don't point to ratings usually when it comes to quality (I really only think it's a usually good way of saying good or bad, but not putting them in order) and I do think they are heavily flawed but, looking at rating sites, you can see the difference in people's opinions overall.

[Thoix]

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

Difference is, the prequels are almost universally disliked to meh. Rises, on the other hand, is a lot more well liked. I don't point to ratings usually when it comes to quality (I really only think it's a usually good way of saying good or bad, but not putting them in order) and I do think they are heavily flawed but, looking at rating sites, you can see the difference in people's opinions overall.

Actually the prequels are universally well liked (fans and general audience) outside of the very vocal minority on the internet. That being said, the prequels do not nearly have the same level of acclaim compared to TDKR.

[Snow Queen]

Originally Posted by Thoix

Actually the prequels are universally well liked (fans and general audience) outside of the very vocal minority on the internet. That being said, the prequels do not nearly have the same level of acclaim compared to TDKR.

Really? I have not met a single person in real life that has liked them. The best I've heard was "meh", which I see reflected by the ratings on various sites:

TPM:
RT: 57%
IMDB: 6.5/10
MC: 51%

AOTC:
RT: 67%
IMDB: 6.7/10
MC: 53%

ROTS does seem to have a lot more positive reception, however. I personally thought it was the best of the three but certainly not very good. Maybe it's just me, but the ratings for the first two just come off as a general "meh".

[Thoix]

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

Really? I have not met a single person in real life that has liked them. The best I've heard was "meh", which I see reflected by the ratings on various sites:

TPM:
RT: 57%
IMDB: 6.5/10
MC: 51%

AOTC:
RT: 67%
IMDB: 6.7/10
MC: 53%

ROTS does seem to have a lot more positive reception, however. I personally thought it was the best of the three but certainly not very good. Maybe it's just me, but the ratings for the first two just come off as a general "meh".

RT and MC are not exactly websites I use to try to prove a point (that case with the rating about TA vs. TDKR was just to show how pointless they are). IMDB is close to being more in line with what I was talking about, but IMDB is ran by either fanboys or haters. Really, it's the vocal minority that gives a bad name to the prequels, where the fans have just been fed up with going in circles in the same arguments (just like what's happening with TDKR on the internet). As for outside the internet, almost everybody I know likes or loves them, and only three people I know dislike them, yet they don't call them bad.

Eh, let's just not get into an argument about the prequels here.

[Snow Queen]

I only brought in RT and MC because, while I don't think they are always accurate to the exact number or which is better than what, I do think that usually it is a good reflection of good or bad. There are things I highly disagree with (for example, I don't think Avengers is that good, I think MOS is a lot better than that, etc...), of course, but they generally fairly close.

I guess it depends on who you talk to. No one I've ever talked to has ever called them anything better than 'meh'. Actually, thinking on it, one person loved them. But that person also told me that Chernobyl Diaries was the best film of 2012.

[Thoix]

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

I only brought in RT and MC because, while I don't think they are always accurate to the exact number or which is better than what, I do think that usually it is a good reflection of good or bad. There are things I highly disagree with (for example, I don't think Avengers is that good, I think MOS is a lot better than that, etc...), of course, but they generally fairly close.

I guess it depends on who you talk to. No one I've ever talked to has ever called them anything better than 'meh'. Actually, thinking on it, one person loved them. But that person also told me that Chernobyl Diaries was the best film of 2012.

You didn't give me enough time to edit my post!

Joking aside, the prequels are what they are, so whatever. Hell, I have the same opinion as you do about the Avengers and Man of Steel, so it's all good. Now it is time for me to go back into the shadows until I have the sudden urge of posting in these forums again, only to lose it right after my first response.

[Snow Queen]

Originally Posted by Thoix

You didn't give me enough time to edit my post!

Joking aside, the prequels are what they are, so whatever. Hell, I have the same opinion as you do about the Avengers and Man of Steel, so it's all good.

Too slow!

Yeah, no point in continuing this line of conversation.

[justpassinby]

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

Difference is, the prequels are almost universally disliked to meh. Rises, on the other hand, is a lot more well liked. I don't point to ratings usually when it comes to quality (I really only think it's a usually good way of saying good or bad, but not putting them in order) and I do think they are heavily flawed but, looking at rating sites, you can see the difference in people's opinions overall.

Well, mainly Jedi

Thing with the prequels is, once you ignore certain annoying elements of either movie which I really think are more or less universally panned (Jar Jar Binks; the childishness of kid Anakin, and then the cheesy romance subplot in Clones; that balcony scene from III, and couple more), they're pretty much enjoyable adventure movies.
Characters are kind of stoic, not the best plot development etc., but the "general audience" just looks at it and says "hey, that's pretty, hey that was funny, /like" and gives it favorable reviews.

It's only really when you get into the details, discussing storytelling, and how they got the old trilogy wrong, missed opportunities, things that don't make sense, poor character arcs etc., when suddenly the faces start getting longer.
It's not an invalid perspective, or more valid for that matter... just a more advanced one; you're more "into" the material and start looking at closer at the "craft of it" and comparing it to more and more alternatives that start coming up, and eventually conclude that yea, what a bunch of strange decisions isn't it. And that, given how it's Star Wars and all, seems to be the general critical crowd you'll encounter in internerd culture.

IMDB/RT rating don't just reflect their views, however. Point is, away with the bitterness against the "vocal minority" - first of all it's not that much of a minority when it comes to those panned elements, and secondly they have their good reasons

Event Horizon has a vocal minority that makes it seem like a classic horror movie despite being incomprehensible panned everywhere major, and no one's complaining about that or are they?

[The Joker]

Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder

I thought TDKR bashing stopped after the announcement of the Batman/Superman film? Guess I'm wrong.

No way! If anything that will make it worse. When a new version of Batman comes along it will become extremely fashionable to bash the previous interpretation.

Raimi's Spider-Man movies went under heavy fire when the reboot was announced.

[Snow Queen]

Originally Posted by justpassinby

Well, mainly Jedi Thing with the prequels is, once you ignore certain annoying elements of either movie which I really think are more or less universally panned (Jar Jar Binks; the childishness of kid Anakin, and then the cheesy romance subplot in Clones; that balcony scene from III, and couple more), they're pretty much enjoyable adventure movies.
Characters are kind of stoic, not the best plot development etc., but the "general audience" just looks at it and says "hey, that's pretty, hey that was funny, /like" and gives it favorable reviews.

It's only really when you get into the details, discussing storytelling, and how they got the old trilogy wrong, missed opportunities, things that don't make sense, poor character arcs etc., when suddenly the faces start getting longer.

Maybe it's just me but if I feel that a film screws up the storytelling, has bland performances (considering a lot of the cast were good actors too, like Portman, Jackson, McGregor, Neeson, that's saying something), poorly written characters, nonsensical character arcs, etc... I can't find it an enjoyable movie. Well, unless it fails in an enjoyable way like The Room. Man, I love that movie. Awful, of course, but just so enjoyably so.

But, unusually, I agree with most of your post in this case.

[Happy Jack]

Apparently some people really enjoy debating the minutia of this movie, as in, having circular arguments about the same topics over and over. I don't really understand the appeal of that at all and don't see much of a point. But you know, different strokes I guess.

[Green Goblin]

Originally Posted by The Joker

No way! If anything that will make it worse. When a new version of Batman comes along it will become extremely fashionable to bash the previous interpretation.

Raimi's Spider-Man movies went under heavy fire when the reboot was announced.

That's because he basicly gave the middle finger to fans with his third instalment, Nolan didn't. Whatever you think about TDKR it was not the Batman equvalent to Spider-Man 3.

[Green Goblin]

TDKR is the new Internet whipping boy.

[justpassinby]

Originally Posted by Gotham's Knight

Maybe it's just me but if I feel that a film screws up the storytelling, has bland performances (considering a lot of the cast were good actors too, like Portman, Jackson, McGregor, Neeson, that's saying something), poorly written characters, nonsensical character arcs, etc... I can't find it an enjoyable movie. Well, unless it fails in an enjoyable way like The Room. Man, I love that movie. Awful, of course, but just so enjoyably so.

But, unusually, I agree with most of your post in this case.

Yea, I'm somewhat more aesthetically inclined in that regard - i.e. if the scenarios and environments are exciting enough, blander characters will be accepted

Plus, McGregor and Neeson are quite fine I think, and there are several colorful supporting characters along the way. They're not the complete trainwrecks of blandness some people make them out to be imo.

[Llama_Shepherd]

Besides Jar Jar's overtly slapstick moments and Jake Lloyds annoying moments, The Phantom Menace is a good film.

Attack of the Clones is another matter. The main story is a love story which Lucas admits he couldn't write, but the beginning of Anakin's descent was handled well (slaughtering the Tusken Raiders).

Revenge of the Sith was good in general. The opening half hour captured some of the greatness of the original.


It's a very, very vocal minority that try to make out the prequels are the worst thing to ever happen to cinema.

It's just the prequels were telling a very different story to the originals. Rather than a story of violent revolution, it was legitimate authority becoming dictatorship, and people didn't like that.

[justpassinby]

Um nah... let's not get carried away there lol.

No, if you really look at them, the way they fail at storytelling and characters in all the ways the originals succeeded with bravura, is quite undeniable. And the fans don't like it for that reason, and not because it's "democracy --> empire", or because it's "more political", or because it's "not as black and white".
They're "good" only in the sense of being creative and enjoyable if you don't think too much about it / just settle for more of a spectacle than an actually compelling story. "Vocal minority"? Maybe, but then only due to being a "thinking minority"

[Green Goblin]

Originally Posted by The Joker

No way! If anything that will make it worse. When a new version of Batman comes along it will become extremely fashionable to bash the previous interpretation.

Rami's Spider-Man movies went under heavy fire when the reboot was announced.

Always thought the reaction was "Tobey Maguire 4life <3"

[DACrowe]

This turned into a Stars Wars Thread? Did that really just happen?

Well, I am speechless.

[Thoix]

Originally Posted by DACrowe

This turned into a Stars Wars Thread? Did that really just happen?

Well, I am speechless.

I apologize for adding to that.

[Kimura]

One thing i noticed about the movie is that it requires a lot of attention. A lot of the questions people raise about the movie can be answered with a little of attention. The same goes for the millions of the so called "plot holes".

[milost]

Originally Posted by Kimura

To me, TDK is just a superior movie. To be honest, i don´t even think it´s close. And the movies are so far apart from each other that i really don´t think they should be compared. TDK should be compared to movies like Casino Royale. The Avengers should be compared to something like...humm...Spider-Man?

The Avengers is the type of movie that i think i would have loved when i was 12 yro or something. As a Kid, i prefered movies with very simple and basic plots, that didn´t make me think too much, colourful characters and tons of action.

As i got older i started to give preference to movies with more complex and intelligent plots. I like stuff that makes me think and really intrigues me. I like to be surprised and emotionally challenged, and i didn´t get any of that from The Avengers. I found the movie to be a cool pop corn flick. But nothing more than that. To me it was "more of the same", but done a little better than usual. TDK, on the other hand, is ground breaking. Amazing movie in almost all aspects.

Characters: TDK

Villain: TDK

Soundtrack: TDK

Plot/Story: TDK

Action: The Avengers

Acting: TDK

Cinematography: TDK

Visual Effects: The Avengers


TDK: 9/10

The Avengers: 7/10

Originally Posted by Kimura

And after Bale, it´s gonna be a downgrade. You can say whatever you want, but Bale is just a superior actor.

Originally Posted by Kimura

I didn´t say never. I said "probably", wich is quite possible, having history into account.

I´m very happy with what we got. Nothing is perfect, and every movie could be a little better in some areas. But you gotta let that go to truly appreciate any movie.

I mean, what super hero movies are out there besides TDK that are really superior to Rises? They´re entertaining, but they´re also pretty much "more of the same". Rises isn´t perfect, but at least it tries to be something more than a straight forward and mindless super hero movie. At least we had a plot that got people wondering about what´s going to happen next. At least we had a good character developemnt. At least we had a movie about ideas and not just senseless action. Nolan deserves merit for that. Nolan deserves merit for breaking the mold and doing something that actually makes people think, instead of a simple explosion fest.

Originally Posted by Kimura

The Avengers is so freaking praised and so not impressive that i´d have to say it is the most overrated comic book movie ever. To me a movie with some good action scenes and a couple of cool one liners is not worth being considered a masterpiece. It is really not that different than any other super hero movie, with the exception of having a little better dialogue and better visuals. Story is very important to me and The Avengers fails on that aspect.

Originally Posted by Kimura

Thank you for your opinion.

Next.

Originally Posted by Kimura

1st of all: Nothing is perfect

2nd: TDKR is a great movie. Most trilogies only wish they had such a strong last movie.

3th: TDKR is what makes this such an amazing trilogy. It´s a 3th movie that had critical and financial success, wich is pretty rare. That, for itself, iss an achievement. I honestly don´t know what people are complaining about. They should be happy someone did with Batman what probably no one is ever gonna do again.

Originally Posted by Kimura

Meh! Maybe a 6.5?

Didn´t impress me, but i enjoyed it.It´s one of those movies that don´t really have anything particularly outstanding, but it is pretty watchable.

Originally Posted by Kimura

One thing i noticed about the movie is that it requires a lot of attention. A lot of the questions people raise about the movie can be answered with a little of attention. The same goes for the millions of the so called "plot holes".

Anno my boy, is that you? If you're going to pick a name, why go with something similar to "Kazuki" again?

[BatLobsterRises]

I doubt that's Anno, as Anno was a pretty big fan of The Avengers.

[milost]

That was my thought as well, but then "Kazuki" had a little different style that threw me off and look what happened there. Kazuki and Kimura both use the same, weird apostrophe too.

I do know that, "Rah, Rah, Bale is the best", "TDKR is the greatest", "your opinion, NEXT", and "meh Iron Man 3" are all Annoisms that I've seen before. Plus the fact that all these new July/August (and I'm sure September) that post in the same three sections never formally greet themselves with an opening end up being banned. If it is him, I wonder why he just doesn't give it up and move on.