The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > General Movies > Misc. Comics Films

View Poll Results: Which is better?
The Dark Knight 111 57.51%
The Avengers 82 42.49%
Voters: 193. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-15-2013, 04:17 PM   #26
Human Torch
I Can't Dance
 
Human Torch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,709
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahran Ramsus View Post
This isn't really a fair competition. The Avengers isn't as good as any of the Dark Knight Trilogy. Nor Batman 89 for that matter.

Human Torch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 04:41 PM   #27
Thoix
Side-Kick
 
Thoix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 432
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahran Ramsus View Post
This isn't really a fair competition. The Avengers isn't as good as any of the Dark Knight Trilogy. Nor Batman 89 for that matter.

The Avengers is a good popcorn film, but not much more.
I agree. It would be more fair for the best of TDKT to go up against the best of the MCU, Iron Man.

Thoix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 04:57 PM   #28
Son of Coul
They call me Mr. Pym
 
Son of Coul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,099
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

The Avengers is more tightly written and richer in character (especially arc-wise), making it way more satisfying for me personally. Both have great casts and direction, but the tone of Avengers is more up my alley and as good as TDK is, it commits the unfortunate movie sin of its protagonist possibly being the least interesting character in his own movie.

Son of Coul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 05:57 PM   #29
Kahran Ramsus
Side-Kick
 
Kahran Ramsus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,587
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoix View Post
I agree. It would be more fair for the best of TDKT to go up against the best of the MCU, Iron Man.
I agree with you about this too. Although I would still pick the TDKT over it, Iron Man is the best MCU film.

Kahran Ramsus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2013, 06:34 PM   #30
Victarion
The Iron Captain
 
Victarion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,424
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

I agree with both of Kahran's points; TA is a good popcorn flick, but I don't rewatch it near as much as I do TDKT (or the Hellboy films; wanted to add this before I get hit with "Nolanite!").

I disagree with Son of Coul on TDK "committing the unfortunate movie sin.." Joker is entertaining to watch, but the film is still focused on Bruce. While there may have been more scenes of Joker and various supporting characters, it works with Bruce's character in the film. He is the ultimate schemer: scheming to get with Rachel, scheming to set Dent up as a legitimate hero in Gotham. Everything you see in Joker's actions and that of the supporting characters is a response to the progression of Bruce's character from angry child to angry child who wants to cling to one of the last figures from his childhood.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steamteck View Post
I always finish TDK very angry.

Last edited by Victarion; 08-15-2013 at 06:39 PM.
Victarion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 01:34 AM   #31
ares834
Side-Kick
 
ares834's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 741
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

I enjoy both, but TDK is the best comic book film yet.

ares834 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 01:54 AM   #32
flickchick85
Loose Seal
 
flickchick85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 10,948
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

These are my two absolute favorite CBM's of all-time, and I gave them both the exact same score (9.5/10), each for entirely different merits.

Ultimately, I had to go with Avengers in this poll, simply because even though TDK's been out far longer, TA has gotten more re-watches from me since its release.

__________________
4.19.14
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

01000110011011110111001000100000011001010111011001 10010101110010011110010010000001100001011101000110 11110110110100100000011000100110010101101100011011 11011011100110011101101001011011100110011100100000 01110100011011110010000001101101011001010010000001 10000101110011001000000110011101101111011011110110 01000010000001100010011001010110110001101111011011 10011001110111001100100000011101000110111100100000 01111001011011110111010100101110
flickchick85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 05:24 AM   #33
NosfeRomas
Side-Kick
 
NosfeRomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,372
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Coul View Post
The Avengers is more tightly written and richer in character (especially arc-wise).
I can't even express with words how much i disagree with that. I sincerely believe you are wrong. There are no character arcs in the Avengers. The character arcs took place in their solo films (Thor went through an arc, Iron Man in IM1 and 2 pseudo arcs in 2 and 3, Cap stayed the same but the world around him changed and Hulk was just The Hulk) Nobody learned a lesson, nobody changed. Them being bitter and throwing words at each other is hardly character delevopment let alone a character arc.

Not to take anything away from the Avengers. I'm not saying that as a bad thing because the movie didn't need character arcs. We got hours of character development from their solo flicks. The Avengers was just teaming up to kick arse and thats why is super awesome and super effective.


In TDK you have 2 major character arcs of Bruce and Harvey and 2 medium ones of Gordon and Rachel. Bruce changed, Harvey changed, Gordon was forced to abandon his beliefs in order to bring justice in Gotham and Rachel made a ballsy choice picking Harvey, she actually did something and she ended up dead.

My 2 cents.

NosfeRomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 02:35 PM   #34
Donnie Darko
Forgotten Pre-New 52 Hero
 
Donnie Darko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 10,988
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

I love The Dark Knight, but Avengers takes it easily for me.

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are both great, but I put them around the same level as Spider-Man and Iron Man, which is below Avengers.

__________________
This is my signature.
Donnie Darko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 03:58 PM   #35
terry78
Smiling is for sellouts
 
terry78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 58,382
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Like I said, Avengers to me wins because it feels like the book brought to life. No watering down or grounding anything. I know for some fans they prefer the latter, but hey.

__________________
The best leaders never want to be leaders.
-----------
Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear."
terry78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2013, 04:27 PM   #36
Human Torch
I Can't Dance
 
Human Torch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 5,709
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
Like I said, Avengers to me wins because it feels like the book brought to life. No watering down or grounding anything. I know for some fans they prefer the latter, but hey.
My feeling exactly.


Human Torch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 01:43 AM   #37
Son of Coul
They call me Mr. Pym
 
Son of Coul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,099
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NosfeRomas View Post
I can't even express with words how much i disagree with that. I sincerely believe you are wrong. There are no character arcs in the Avengers. The character arcs took place in their solo films (Thor went through an arc, Iron Man in IM1 and 2 pseudo arcs in 2 and 3, Cap stayed the same but the world around him changed and Hulk was just The Hulk) Nobody learned a lesson, nobody changed. Them being bitter and throwing words at each other is hardly character delevopment let alone a character arc.

Not to take anything away from the Avengers. I'm not saying that as a bad thing because the movie didn't need character arcs. We got hours of character development from their solo flicks. The Avengers was just teaming up to kick arse and thats why is super awesome and super effective.
Well the whole team learning to cast their differences aside and come together is an arc that's plain as day, and follows a pretty standard, but effectively played structure. The development isn't them bickering; it's what their saying and why they're saying it.

Everybody has a clear, understandable motivation in every conflict and if that's not character development, you can pretty much write off plenty of other movies like Twelve Angry Men that do the same.

Stark had a very clear arc that tied up a problem from his solo outings that he primarily "fought for himself" and never made the sacrifice play, as pointed out by Cap. By the end, Stark does this in a scene that intentionally mirrors the one from Cap's ending sacrifice in his solo film.

Banner had the second biggest arc, going from someone who's wrangled his anger to control & bottle it to someone who realizes the right time to embrace it and accept his condition as a "terrible privilege".

The rest are less complete, but there are traces there--Cap finding a place as a leader in modern times (still mucked up by the Helicarrier sequence if you ask me, my only real complaint), Thor accepting Loki as the corrupt dickweed he is, and BW & HE don't have arcs so much as personal moments that certainly develop them as being people in the face of all the insanity going on around them.

I really have a hard time understanding how so many people can write off one of the most tightly written superhero films as "popcorn fun" (as if that's a bad thing in the first place), when everything is laid out really clearly. It's not even subtle; it's just that the "Reason You Suck Speeches" are written sharper than we usually see in these movies. The well-constructed character beats are what make this "simple popcorn fun" so satisfying in the end. As Mr. Plinkett would say, "You might not have noticed it, but your brain did."

Son of Coul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 02:10 AM   #38
pr0xyt0xin
Shaper Savant
 
pr0xyt0xin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 4,454
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

I can't decide lol. I can't bring myself to vote for either.

I saw them both the same amount (6) of times in theaters. They both got me more interested in comics and comic book movies than I had ever previously been. They both got me extremely excited to see where their respective series' would end up.

The Dark Knight may in some ways be a better artistic expression. What Nolan and the rest created was amazing. I've never been on the edge of my seat in quite the same way. Never gotten more goosebumps from a single film.

But Whedon made The Avengers into a piece of art as well. Not a moment of its several hours of CGI and action sequences felt out of place, nor did it take me out of the film in a way CGI so often does. It was blended so well along with its blending of humor and emotion from damn near every character.

And was The Avengers not a greater cinematic endeavor? 5 movies, 5 years in the making culminating in one great finale that was bound to spur on limitless further sequels.

But wasn't The Dark Knight not a great cinematic endeavor in itself? Turning Batman into a real person and Joker into a really, truly terrifying adversary. They made comic book movies cool, and in many ways Oscar-worthy.

Each had an all star cast. Ledger, Downey Jr, Caine, Jackson, Freeman, Hiddleston, Oldman, Ruffalo. I say again, All. Star. Cast.

10/10 a piece.

I can't decide. Nay. I won't decide. I refuse

pr0xyt0xin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 03:04 AM   #39
Snow Queen
Side-Kick
 
Snow Queen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,052
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

The Dark Knight. Easy choice.

Snow Queen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 03:36 AM   #40
DACrowe
Side-Kick
 
DACrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 25,690
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

I always knew this day would come.



And the answer is most clearly TDK. It is not only the best of the two, but by far the best the genre has had to offer. It will be remembered as a true classic long after the archetypes and special effects of the other and the many, many others out there fade. Count on it.

__________________
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."

--John Adams
DACrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 03:42 AM   #41
DACrowe
Side-Kick
 
DACrowe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 25,690
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Coul View Post
The Avengers is more tightly written and richer in character (especially arc-wise), making it way more satisfying for me personally. Both have great casts and direction, but the tone of Avengers is more up my alley and as good as TDK is, it commits the unfortunate movie sin of its protagonist possibly being the least interesting character in his own movie.
Not to pick a fight on subjectivity, but really? It is more tightly woven in narrative? The Dark Knight is an (arguably) flawless game of constant ratcheting tension that is in a perpetual state of third act climax for nearly all of its 2.5 hour running time. It is precisely written and edited. The Avengers was top heavy on scenes that felt added on for exposition or character filler set-pieces (ex: Iron Man fixing a turbine for 20 minutes, Agent Hill in a random car chase).

And I really do not think any character in The Avengers is as richly drawn as the Joker, Harvey Dent, Batman or James Gordon. I just do not see it.

__________________
"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country."

--John Adams
DACrowe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 04:37 AM   #42
pr0xyt0xin
Shaper Savant
 
pr0xyt0xin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 4,454
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
Not to pick a fight on subjectivity, but really? It is more tightly woven in narrative? The Dark Knight is an (arguably) flawless game of constant ratcheting tension that is in a perpetual state of third act climax for nearly all of its 2.5 hour running time. It is precisely written and edited. The Avengers was top heavy on scenes that felt added on for exposition or character filler set-pieces (ex: Iron Man fixing a turbine for 20 minutes, Agent Hill in a random car chase).

And I really do not think any character in The Avengers is as richly drawn as the Joker, Harvey Dent, Batman or James Gordon. I just do not see it.
You find "2.5 hour... perpetual state of third act climax" to be a winning factor? I'd argue that many see the majority of The Avengers as a perpetual state of climax as well. At least from the moment Hawkeye attacks the Hellicarrier. To which many would complain is an issue in The Avengers. That is, that there is no place to take a breath.

I respect The Avengers just as much as I respect The Dark Knight. And if The Avengers were winning this poll I imagine I'd feel inclined to defend TDK. But since its not, I have this to say:

The Avengers doesn't even risk focusing on any forced or unforced love story, which is a personal plus for me. Nat/Clint is far too ambiguous and Pepper is merely a fleeting characterization for Tony Stark. Whereas The Dark Knight feels obligated to have this Rachel Dawes love triangle in order to ground Bale's Wayne and eventually make him all the more lonely. Which is fine, unless you didn't pay to see a movie about a love story.

As far as richly drawn characters (of which TDK is most assuredly full of), I'd definitely (sort of agree) that Loki is one of the few who shines out of the pack in The Avengers. But I do appreciate those who consider "The Avengers" as a team to be a richly drawn character in itself. One with inner turmoil and one who, together, is ultimately triumphant over an insurmountable evil. And finally I'd give the descriptor of "richly drawn" to the spy of spies, Nick Fury. He is perfectly shady and despicably realistic as The Avengers' catalyst (especially after learning of Coulson's survival). But he's still very likable, as only Sammy J can be.

And to anyone who says no one in the film has a character arc: up until May 2012 I wonder if you realize Tony Stark never had a moment of self sacrifice the way Banner, Rogers and Thor had in their respective solo films. Stark finishes his very first arc in The Avengers. So watch it again if you missed that.


Last edited by pr0xyt0xin; 08-17-2013 at 04:44 AM.
pr0xyt0xin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 05:02 AM   #43
jmc
callin' it like I see it
 
jmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: I come from the land Down Under
Posts: 19,568
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

TDK. Better story, better direction, better cast performance, better score, cinematography, editing, more emotional investment, more depth, greater tension, and finally, better villain. On top of that the films influence is still being felt in movies 5 years after its release. Ultimately TDK is the better overall film, I think that's something most people can agree upon, but I can understand why some would prefer Avengers because it's a good film in it's own right, it's honestly the most pure superhero experience ever made on film, unashamed at what type of film it is - but at the end of the day it's very hollow underneath the surface. It's the type of movie you fast forward to get to the bits you enjoy the most. I tend not to give the film too hard a time because it's not trying to be something like TDK, it's just trying to have a good time and doesn't apologise for doing so. In a sense these are two different types of movies and really are nothing alike, one is trying to be more than a superhero film, the other is embracing being a superhero film.

__________________
Celebrating 75 years of Batman saving Gotham City.

Fanboys make excuses, real fans acknowledge screw-ups.

Do me a favour - don't break up my posts into multiple quotes when replying, I won't answer back.

Last edited by jmc; 08-17-2013 at 09:15 AM. Reason: grammar
jmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 05:27 AM   #44
pr0xyt0xin
Shaper Savant
 
pr0xyt0xin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 4,454
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

jmc says it very well. And despite his own preference does a great job describing why they are both the best of the best.


Personally I see it like this:
Best villain: Ledger > Hiddleston
Best hero: Downey Jr/Hemsworth/Ruffalo > Bale
Best plot: Joker's chaos > Loki's army
Best battles: Hulk vs Thor, Iron Man vs Thor, Chitauri vs Avengers > ... Batman vs Joker? Scarecrow? Two Face?
Best supporting cast: Alfred, Gordon, Fox, Dent > Pepper, Coulson, Hill, Fury
Best visuals: Avengers by a substantial margin (being 4 years newer)
Best writing: Nolans' epic emotion = Whedon's witty dialogue
Greatest potential: The Dark Knight Rises vs MCU Phase 2 and 3. we'll see who wins.

I know why pure comic fans choose The Avengers. I know why pure film buffs choose The Dark Knight. What I don't know, is which I prefer.


Last edited by pr0xyt0xin; 08-17-2013 at 06:33 AM. Reason: because jmc is a dude.
pr0xyt0xin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 06:08 AM   #45
jmc
callin' it like I see it
 
jmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: I come from the land Down Under
Posts: 19,568
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

"His" .

Another thing I forgot to add is that there's more at stake in TDK then there is in Avengers. Avengers is more about the team working together as opposed to who the threat they face is, honestly it could have been Loki, Red Skull or any other character filling in the villain role and it wouldn't have mattered. Who are the Chitari? Who cares. Their role is to be the enemy. Like most other films where it's about the team having to work together, whether it be a sports movie, a heist film or one of those 'we're getting the band back together' type of films who the adversary is is never really an important part of the story and thus the stakes are never really going to be as high because you know where the journey ends - it ends with the team doing the job. TDK by contrast is all about who the adversary is and what he represents to not just the main character, or supporting cast, but the entire city in which the film take place in. You can't just replace the Joker with another villain because the Joker represents chaos and that is the backbone of the story in TDK, and a character who represents chaos means all bets are off the table. As such there's more at stake for Batman, Dent and the supporting cast because it asks a very important question of everyone including the audience - What would you do?

__________________
Celebrating 75 years of Batman saving Gotham City.

Fanboys make excuses, real fans acknowledge screw-ups.

Do me a favour - don't break up my posts into multiple quotes when replying, I won't answer back.
jmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 07:08 AM   #46
Squaremaster316
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 281
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

The Dark Knight, easily.

The Avengers has easily become one of the most overrated products in the history of any entertainment medium, mostly due to how over-exaggerated the aspect of how "Difficult" it was to pull off.

If you have the rights to the characters and a big enough budget, it's quite easy to pull off. It's no different that a ton of other ensemble films that have come and gone.

Squaremaster316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 08:33 AM   #47
MessiahDecoy123
Cosmic Spidey
 
MessiahDecoy123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,255
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

TDK was like an episode of Law and Order with Batman thrown in. Heath Ledger's Joker is the only element that elevates it to a classic/iconic level.

The Avengers was a comic book come to life. Total geek bliss.

The Avengers wins for me.

MessiahDecoy123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 08:42 AM   #48
terry78
Smiling is for sellouts
 
terry78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Northwest Indiana
Posts: 58,382
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

And frankly I hope GotG follows Avengers' business model.

__________________
The best leaders never want to be leaders.
-----------
Who the **** makes a movie and while planning it is like, "you know what this needs...is some Greg Kinnear."
terry78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 11:00 AM   #49
Senator Pleasury
Banned User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,846
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

Quote:
Originally Posted by terry78 View Post
And frankly I hope GotG follows Avengers' business model.
With Avengers being such a BO success, it's impossible GOTG won't be following it.

Senator Pleasury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2013, 11:53 AM   #50
Squaremaster316
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 281
Default Re: Tdk vs Avengers

THE DARK KNIGHT > Any film any actor in the Avengers has ever been involved in.

Out of their collective filmography, only these two rival it:




Squaremaster316 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.