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Old 08-17-2013, 09:05 PM   #176
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Default Re: What if it flops?

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Of course they were. The movie came out, the public response was a resounding "meh", and that was that. People moved on. There's no doubt in my mind that a direct sequel would have performed worse than MOS because no one was clamoring for the sequel outside of the hardcore fans. Bringing in Batman was the only way to raise excitement levels for another film. It was really the only play they had left.
I think this is right.

The only question is will WB give up on Superman entirely now and use him only as a supporting character in JL films or will they try to reboot one more time - replacing Cavill (optioned for 2 more films) and the director with someone new after the WF/JL films comes out.

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Old 08-17-2013, 09:12 PM   #177
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Of course there's going to be another Superman movie with another actor playing Superman. It's f'n Superman. They'll never STOP making Superman movies. When and if the superhero movie genre ever dies down... there's still gonna be someone out there wanting to make a Superman movie.

It might be another 10-15... gulp... 20... years... but we WILL see one.

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Old 08-17-2013, 09:21 PM   #178
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Of course there's going to be another Superman movie with another actor playing Supermam. It's f'n Superman. They'll never STOP making Superman movies. When and if the superhero movie genre ever dies down... there's still gonna be someone out there wanting to make a Superman movie.

It might be another 10-15... gulp... 20... years... but we WILL see one.
In hindsight WB losing the lawsuit would have been better maybe. WB can't get it right it seems. Cavill was as big a disappointment just as Routh. If the role is driven strictly by looks and not acting skills what do you expect.

If JL turns out huge I wonder if JL2 will use Cavill or go with another actor? Cavill's contract for 3 films is up after WF and JL1. A stronger actor in JL2 could open up another Superman film at WB in maybe 10 years and not 15 or 20.

15 years is a long time. I've waited forever, well since the late 90's and they still haven't gotten it right.

The heirs' families are apparently going to appeal to the Supreme Court to win Superman from WB/DC - and presumably take him to Marvel/Disney. Need I tell you who I am rooting for in that court case - after SR and now MOS.

If Marvel/Disney were to get Superman I don't think we'd have to wait 20 years for the next film.


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Old 08-17-2013, 09:55 PM   #179
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Cavill was awesome in the role. He is perfect for Superman and Smallville Clark, now I'm just waiting to see his DP Clark.

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Old 08-17-2013, 09:56 PM   #180
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Also, the public response was more like "we really like it, screw the critics." It has a high audience approval rating on RT and IMDB.

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Old 08-18-2013, 02:34 AM   #181
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Of course they were. The movie came out, the public response was a resounding "meh", and that was that. People moved on. There's no doubt in my mind that a direct sequel would have performed worse than MOS because no one was clamoring for a sequel outside of the hardcore fans. Bringing in Batman was the only way to raise excitement levels for another film. It was really the only play they had left.
The response was a meh because the film was flawed in so many areas when it didn't have to be. And besides adding Batman into the mix is not a guarantee for success if you have the same guys doing it who made your last movie meh.


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Old 08-18-2013, 02:38 AM   #182
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Also, the public response was more like "we really like it, screw the critics." It has a high audience approval rating on RT and IMDB.
But not 'legs.' It certainly has a fanbase, and I am part of that, but I think there are quite a few flaws, mostly at the screenplay and editing, and some in the direction.

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Old 08-18-2013, 09:26 AM   #183
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Also, the public response was more like "we really like it, screw the critics." It has a high audience approval rating on RT and IMDB.
Oh great, the average movie goers who log onto the internet and tell the world what they think about movies gave it their approval. I guess it's an open and shut case then. You go the movies don't you... have you ever taken a real good look at the average movie goer?

Grown Ups 2 currently has a 60% approval ratings on RT as well. That means more than half of the people who saw that movie and logged onto RT thought it was good. More than HALF. You ever think that maybe these numbers are just largely comprised of popcorn inhaling mouthbreathers easily amused by bright lights, 'splosions, and poop jokes? Most of these idiots are just happy to get out of the house for 2 hours. To quote the great George Carlin.. "Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”

Transformers was another dumb blockbuster but that was something NEW that we hadn't seen before. It was something that exploded onto the culture. It broke through. Transformers became a thing. That's why it spawned a successful franchise. There was nothing NEW in Man Of Steel outside of maybe the novelty of seeing Superman again on the big screen after a brief hiatus. But the movie didn't really offer anything NEW that audiences hadn't seen before. People saw it and they moved on. It had absolutely no effect on the culture. It was forgettable.

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Old 08-18-2013, 09:30 AM   #184
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Default Re: What if it flops?

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Oh great, the average movie goers who log onto the internet and tell the world what they think about movies gave it their approval. I guess it's an open and shut case then. You go the movies don't you... have you ever taken a real good look at the average movie goer?

Grown Ups 2 currently has a 60% approval ratings on RT as well. That means more than half of the people who saw that movie and logged onto RT thought it was good. More than HALF. You ever think that maybe these numbers are just largely comprised of popcorn inhaling mouthbreathers easily amused by bright lights, 'splosions, and poop jokes? Most of these idiots are just happy to get out of the house for 2 hours. To quote the great George Carlin.. "Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider!”

Transformers was another dumb blockbuster but that was something NEW that we hadn't seen before. It was something that exploded onto the culture. It broke through. Transformers became a thing. That's why it spawned a successful franchise. There was nothing NEW in Man Of Steel outside of maybe the novelty of seeing Superman again on the big screen after a brief hiatus. But the movie didn't really offer anything NEW that audiences hadn't seen before. People saw it and they moved on. It had absolutely no effect on the culture. It was forgettable.
I agree and it is easy to be critical - but Superman is hard to translate to film.

Just curious - what would your approach be to doing a Superman film?

Can a successful Superman film be made in today's world? WB now has to reboot down the road again in a decade or so and won't the temptation be once more to do an origin story?


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Old 08-18-2013, 09:39 AM   #185
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I agree and it is easy to be critical - but Superman is hard to translate to film.

Just curious - what would your approach be to doing a Superman film?

Can a successful Superman film be made in today's world?
To answer your last question, of course.

I guess I would have a few different approaches. It depends on what the goal is. Are we just telling a one off? Are we trying to start a franchise? Are we trying to launch a larger DC universe in the hopes that maybe a Justice League movie would feature Superman sometime down the line? Because a standalone Superman story would probably have to be tackled differently than a Superman story that had to make room for Batman and Wonder Woman. Which were you curious about?

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Old 08-18-2013, 09:45 AM   #186
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To answer your last question, of course.

I guess I would have a few different approaches. It depends on what the goal is. Are we just telling a one off? Are we trying to start a franchise? Are we trying to launch a larger DC universe in the hopes that maybe a Justice League movie would feature Superman sometime down the line? Because a standalone Superman story would probably have to be tackled differently than a Superman story that had to make room for Batman and Wonder Woman. Which were you curious about?
If you wanted to do a Superman franchise again what would be your approach?

It'll be interesting to see how successful WB will be at launching GL and the others into solo franchises after MOS failed to spawn one. Its like all these other characters - Thor, Cap, Spiderman and Batman are easily turned into franchises and repeat franchises. TASM was a big success and is getting 4 more films and yet it repeated a telling of the origin.

Why is it seemingly so hard for Superman to be turned into a franchise? Is it partially WB's fault? Would a Disney/Marvel Superman be more successful as a franchise?


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Old 08-18-2013, 09:58 AM   #187
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In hindsight WB losing the lawsuit would have been better maybe. WB can't get it right it seems. Cavill was as big a disappointment just as Routh. If the role is driven strictly by looks and not acting skills what do you expect.

If JL turns out huge I wonder if JL2 will use Cavill or go with another actor? Cavill's contract for 3 films is up after WF and JL1. A stronger actor in JL2 could open up another Superman film at WB in maybe 10 years and not 15 or 20.

15 years is a long time. I've waited forever, well since the late 90's and they still haven't gotten it right.

The heirs' families are apparently going to appeal to the Supreme Court to win Superman from WB/DC - and presumably take him to Marvel/Disney. Need I tell you who I am rooting for in that court case - after SR and now MOS.

If Marvel/Disney were to get Superman I don't think we'd have to wait 20 years for the next film.
How would losing the lawsuit have heped the situation ?


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Old 08-18-2013, 10:01 AM   #188
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How would osing the lawsuit have heped the situation ?
If they had lost the lawsuit Superman might have gone to Marvel/Disney. Marvel has a much better track record at bringing comic characters to film. Even hard to adapt ones like Superman - think IronMan. Who would have thought.

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Old 08-18-2013, 11:04 AM   #189
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Skrilla3, Considering that the GA is ultimately who ANY big movie is made for, as well as who determine if the movie is successful or not, YES, their opinion matters A LOT. You insulting the GA only makes YOU look like an arrogant jerk. Movies are made to make money, sorry if you have trouble realizing that. The simple fact is that the people WHO THE MOVIE WAS MADE FOR really liked it by and large, period.

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Old 08-18-2013, 11:10 AM   #190
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If you wanted to do a Superman franchise again what would be your approach?
Well first things first, I like the "real world" approach that Nolan made popular with the Batman movies... I just don't think Snyder did as well of a job. But if I were at the helm instead, I think that I too would have tried to a tell a more grounded story if only because I would want to distance it from the Donner movie. Not saying we can't have fun, but we don't wanna go into camp territory either. All in all it would be a very grounded, but warm movie.

First thing I would do is scrap Krypton altogether because it simply isn't needed. We do not need to be retold the myth. More than anything I would want this to be a character driven film, so I would start off in Smallville with a ready aged Clark who's already aware of who he is. He knows he came here in a spaceship and he knows he has special powers. Flesh out Clark, flesh out Ma and Pa Kent, flesh out Smallville... flesh it all out. The first hour of the movie or so might have a tone just a wee bit similar to Phenomenon starring John Travolta. Just this heartwarming story of this wonderful man living in this small town who could do these amazing things, trying to find his purpose in life. We should know and love this character and we should feel what he feels before he ever dons the suit. The first act would come to a close with Pa Kent's death and Clark finally discovering his reason for being. He shares a heartfelt goodbye with his mother and flies off into the unknown.

Cut to Metropolis. Introduce Lois and the Daily Planet. Introduce Lex Luthor and Lexcorp. Spend some time getting to know Metropolis. Really establish Lex as this god of a man who built the city and is one of the most famous people in the world (In fact there could even be mention or two of him during the Smallville scenes in the first act). Then something happens... not sure what the triggering event would be but something terrible happens. A helicopter team is having a malfunction and they're plummeting down from the sky. The people in the streets are terrified for these people as they see the helicopter from a distance struggling to stay afloat. It looks like it's coming down... people are screaming... and then out of nowhere a guy flies in and hoists the helicopter to safety. The people in the streets, traffic, people watching news clips on TV, Lois, the people at the Planet, Lex... everyone has stopped dead in their tracks. No one can believe what they just saw. Superman has revealed himself to the world.

The world reacts to Superman. It's the biggest story in human history. World leaders address their fellow nations about this flying superman and what it means for the future of mankind. Is he friend? Is he foe? Is he neutral? Are there more of him? Lex Luthor starts questioning his entire life's work and wonders what it was all for.

Meanwhile Clark is at home watching TV one night and he catches Lois Lane on one of those nighttime talk shows. She's got spunk. She looks into the camera and tells Superman - wherever he is - that she wants the first interview. Finding this all amusing, Clark looks to make it happen.

Finally, a sit down interview with Superman. The entire world is watching. Practically every breathing mammal walking the earth is tuned in. The internet has crashed. The world is at attention and they wanna know who this guy is. This is where Superman reveals to the world where he came from, his home planet of Krypton... everything. He also tells the world he's not here to conquer or to lead, but to help. Lex watches in disgust. Behind the scenes, Superman gets buddy buddy with Lois and the seeds for a friendship - and maybe more - are planted.

So now the whole world knows who Superman and the rest of the story could kinda tell itself I guess. Superman does more Superman stuff. Lex vows to bring him down. Yadda yadda yadda. Not sure what the final act would encompass but I imagine it would have to involve Superman saving the world from some secret scheme of Luthor's. Lol I'm not creative enough to think of something good enough to suffice. This is where you need a comic writer who could think of a good dastardly plot. I guess as long as Superman is seeing flying, moving really fast, punching things, and is seen lifting heavy objects. Whatever allows for Superman to be Superman and thrill the audience I guess.

Obviously this is just a quick rundown but you get the idea. Just felt like giving you the bullet points.




Then in the SEQUEL... you open up with the Krypton stuff. Now you see Jor-el in all his glory and you witness the past and how it's going to tie in with Superman's new foes... either Zod or Braniac or something like that.

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Old 08-18-2013, 11:27 AM   #191
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*IF* I would have had the chance to pick how it would have went down, it would have been like this...

A comic book opening credit sequence for krypton mixed with live action.
It would have opened with an already established superman ( maybe two or three years into his role as the Man of steel )
Lex would have been well established also.
Clark working at the DP in full reporter mode trying to expose Lex.
a classic shirt rip to leave you in chills. a little thing I know, but still.
Lois would still know who clark really is.
Supes would have fought several earthbased villains already, ie, metallo, parasite, etc. thanks to Lex.

The rest I would have left alone. Zod and company would have still been the villains, with the same idea of changing Earth into a new Krypton.
More refrences of other heroes, especially Bats.
a shot at the end of Metropolis being rebuilt with supes somehow helping, ( maybe lifting the DP globe in place, or something similar)

But, since it didnt go down like that, i'm pretty well satisfied with what we got. was it perfect? heck no, but it was still, for me, very good.

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Old 08-18-2013, 12:33 PM   #192
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Well first things first, I like the "real world" approach that Nolan made popular with the Batman movies... I just don't think Snyder did as well of a job. But if I were at the helm instead, I think that I too would have tried to a tell a more grounded story if only because I would want to distance it from the Donner movie. Not saying we can't have fun, but we don't wanna go into camp territory either. All in all it would be a very grounded, but warm movie.

First thing I would do is scrap Krypton altogether because it simply isn't needed. We do not need to be retold the myth. More than anything I would want this to be a character driven film, so I would start off in Smallville with a ready aged Clark who's already aware of who he is. He knows he came here in a spaceship and he knows he has special powers. Flesh out Clark, flesh out Ma and Pa Kent, flesh out Smallville... flesh it all out. The first hour of the movie or so might have a tone just a wee bit similar to Phenomenon starring John Travolta. Just this heartwarming story of this wonderful man living in this small town who could do these amazing things, trying to find his purpose in life. We should know and love this character and we should feel what he feels before he ever dons the suit. The first act would come to a close with Pa Kent's death and Clark finally discovering his reason for being. He shares a heartfelt goodbye with his mother and flies off into the unknown.

Cut to Metropolis. Introduce Lois and the Daily Planet. Introduce Lex Luthor and Lexcorp. Spend some time getting to know Metropolis. Really establish Lex as this god of a man who built the city and is one of the most famous people in the world (In fact there could even be mention or two of him during the Smallville scenes in the first act). Then something happens... not sure what the triggering event would be but something terrible happens. A helicopter team is having a malfunction and they're plummeting down from the sky. The people in the streets are terrified for these people as they see the helicopter from a distance struggling to stay afloat. It looks like it's coming down... people are screaming... and then out of nowhere a guy flies in and hoists the helicopter to safety. The people in the streets, traffic, people watching news clips on TV, Lois, the people at the Planet, Lex... everyone has stopped dead in their tracks. No one can believe what they just saw. Superman has revealed himself to the world.

The world reacts to Superman. It's the biggest story in human history. World leaders address their fellow nations about this flying superman and what it means for the future of mankind. Is he friend? Is he foe? Is he neutral? Are there more of him? Lex Luthor starts questioning his entire life's work and wonders what it was all for.

Meanwhile Clark is at home watching TV one night and he catches Lois Lane on one of those nighttime talk shows. She's got spunk. She looks into the camera and tells Superman - wherever he is - that she wants the first interview. Finding this all amusing, Clark looks to make it happen.

Finally, a sit down interview with Superman. The entire world is watching. Practically every breathing mammal walking the earth is tuned in. The internet has crashed. The world is at attention and they wanna know who this guy is. This is where Superman reveals to the world where he came from, his home planet of Krypton... everything. He also tells the world he's not here to conquer or to lead, but to help. Lex watches in disgust. Behind the scenes, Superman gets buddy buddy with Lois and the seeds for a friendship - and maybe more - are planted.

So now the whole world knows who Superman and the rest of the story could kinda tell itself I guess. Superman does more Superman stuff. Lex vows to bring him down. Yadda yadda yadda. Not sure what the final act would encompass but I imagine it would have to involve Superman saving the world from some secret scheme of Luthor's. Lol I'm not creative enough to think of something good enough to suffice. This is where you need a comic writer who could think of a good dastardly plot. I guess as long as Superman is seeing flying, moving really fast, punching things, and is seen lifting heavy objects. Whatever allows for Superman to be Superman and thrill the audience I guess.

Obviously this is just a quick rundown but you get the idea. Just felt like giving you the bullet points.




Then in the SEQUEL... you open up with the Krypton stuff. Now you see Jor-el in all his glory and you witness the past and how it's going to tie in with Superman's new foes... either Zod or Braniac or something like that.
Wow, a Superman 1 rehash with lot of vague "Flesh this out" "And then something Happens" beats. No one has come up with that before. Someone give this man a screenwriting contract.

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Old 08-18-2013, 02:18 PM   #193
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Wow, a Superman 1 rehash with lot of vague "Flesh this out" "And then something Happens" beats. No one has come up with that before. Someone give this man a screenwriting contract.
You know a simple "I wasn't a fan" might have sufficed. You sound pretty heated. Maybe you should log off for awhile.

Someone asked me how I'd tackle a Superman movie and so I responded. I didn't claim to know how to write a screenplay. All I did was propose some bullet points as to how the main story would proceed. I even went out of my way to say that in the post, but I apologize if my proposal for a Superman story on an internet message board offended you personally. That wasn't my intent. I'm sorry Tec15.

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Old 08-18-2013, 02:45 PM   #194
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Oh no, I am fine, believe me. Not heated at all. You seem to be taking my criticism far more seriously, if anything. All I meant was that your proposal sounds far worse than anything we got from Snyder. And if you think that the public reaction to MOS was "meh", I am curious as to what you think the reaction to a movie based on your proposal would be, considering that there is nothing remotely original or interesting about it.

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Old 08-18-2013, 03:20 PM   #195
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Oh no, I am fine, believe me. Not heated at all. You seem to be taking my criticism far more seriously, if anything. All I meant was that your proposal sounds far worse than anything we got from Snyder. And if you think that the public reaction to MOS was "meh", I am curious as to what you think the reaction to a movie based on your proposal would be, considering that there is nothing remotely original or interesting about it.
Really? What's so unoriginal about it? No Krypton prologue, no infant Clark, no teenaged Clark, the first hour of the movie being spent in Smallville... we've never seen that approach yet. None of the movies featuring Superman were ever so character driven. If there are story beats in my proposal that sound familiar, it's because they've become kind of synonymous with the Superman story in general... and probably because things like the Donner movie and the animated series are engrained in my subconscious. But it isn't any more of a Superman 1 rehash than what we eventually got with Man Of Steel anyways.

The public response was "meh" because Snyder didn't make a good movie. The story was an afterthought.

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Old 08-18-2013, 04:02 PM   #196
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You know a simple "I wasn't a fan" might have sufficed. You sound pretty heated. Maybe you should log off for awhile.

Someone asked me how I'd tackle a Superman movie and so I responded. I didn't claim to know how to write a screenplay. All I did was propose some bullet points as to how the main story would proceed. I even went out of my way to say that in the post, but I apologize if my proposal for a Superman story on an internet message board offended you personally. That wasn't my intent. I'm sorry Tec15.
Thanks for posting it. Like some of the ideas. It ain't easy to come up with something audiences will like. Sadly, I've read some of the talented name directors don't even want to do Superman. That may be a part of the problem and when you consider Snyder and Singer are not A list directors.

I'd hope they do WF with Lex and Bruce starting out as allies and also that they reference MOS as a starting point. They may not have the time to do that and instead do a stand-alone WF separate from MOS and the Nolan trilogy.

Here is how I'd start WF:

The Meeting -

Luthor looked up from his desk just as Mercy Graves entered the office.

"Yes, Mercy?" Luthor asked.

"Mr. Wayne is here. Shall I show him in?"

"He's half an hour late Mercy. Normally I'd make him reappoint but, given the shambles the streets are in since the aliens' brawl, we can make an exception for Mr. Wayne. Show him in."

Luthor had met Bruce Wayne several times before at the annual CFR meetings in Metropolis. He knew of Wayne's reputation as an astute businessman and of his connections to government circles - both domestic and foreign. He also knew that Wayne, living in Gotham City, had experience doing business in an environment filled with super-criminals like The Joker and Riddler.

Fortunately Luthor had not had to deal with such challenges until now - well until 2 weeks ago - when the aliens made their appearance and chose to make Metropolis their personal battleground. Luthor feared Metropolis was about to become the home-base of a super-criminal far more dangerous and powerful than anything Wayne had to face in Gotham City. The icing on the cake - Wayne reportedly had an in with the Batman. Considered a vigilante by some, this mysterious figure managed to keep Gotham's super-criminals at bay. He might be a resource Metropolis could borrow to destroy the alien.

"Mr. Luthor, good to see you again. I apologize for my tardiness, but Metropolis is in worse shape than I realized." Bruce politely said.

"No apologies needed Mr. Wayne. The streets are still a mess, debris making some of them impassable. Please have a seat."

Bruce obliged. He'd met Luthor before and knew of his less than stellar reputation. He also knew Luthor had a love affair with Metropolis and had funded major civic projects from hospitals to the recently opened, and recently destroyed, Welling Opera House. Bruce took the rumors about Luthor's shady side as just that. Rumors. After all, much the same was said of him in Gotham - that Wayne and Wayne Enterprises were up to no good and presented a false civic-minded front to the city of Gotham.

"Where do I start, Mr. Wayne. You saw the pictures, you read the stories and now you are seeing it first hand. 8 billion in destruction, movement about Metropolis still severely impeded which in itself is costing the city millions in lost business every day. Worst of all, the human cost - 750 dead and several thousand injured."

"Yes. Whoever these aliens are they clearly have no concern for human life." Bruce coldly declared.

"My guess Mr. Wayne - they see us as animals to be used and abused at their whim."

"And so?" Bruce asked.

"I have a problem Mr. Wayne, Metropolis has a problem and soon Gotham City could have the same problem." Luthor replied.

"But since the fight no sign has been seen of the aliens. Reports say they have left - not that I necessarily believe those reports." Bruce replied.

"I doubt they have left. Some maybe - the one called Zod was killed and perhaps his group fled. The one dubbed Superman by Lois Lane - the one who killed Zod - he is most certainly still around. In hiding."

"And you know this how?" Bruce asked.

"We have video of the fight. Both Zod and this Superman were in bad shape just before it ended. My people have collected tissue and blood samples that each lost in the fight. They did major damage to one another. Take a look at this Mr. Wayne."

Luthor pressed a button and a screen appeared at the far end of the office and video started playing.

"This was captured just after Zod was killed. You can see the Superman land unsteadily near the subway station entrance. This video is enhanced and you can see his costume is half-torn off, blood is coming from his ears, mouth and wounds on his chest, legs and back. His face is racked in pain." Luthor froze the video for a few seconds to zoom in on the anguished expression on the alien's face, and then started the video up again.

"The tissue and blood you managed to collect came from this area?" Bruce asked.

"Yes. Now look at him. He is staggering and holding himself up by leaning against the wall. He barely manages to make it to the station entrance and then disappears."

"Do you think its possible he died somewhere under the streets of Metropolis?" Bruce asked.

"No. My people and the Metropolis police and FBI have thoroughly checked the area. He got away and is presumably nursing his wounds somewhere in hiding." Luthor stated.

"So you think there is at least one alien still in Metropolis?"

"Sure of it Mr. Wayne, and once he recovers then what?" Luthor asked.

"Have you considered the possibility, if indeed he is seriously injured, that he could be taken out in his weakened condition?" Bruce asked.

"Yes, which is why I have scores of associates scouring the area for signs of him. The government is searching too." Luthor affirmed.

"Could someone be hiding him - say the Daily Planet reporter Lois Lane? Bruce half asked, half stated.

"Ahh, quite astute Mr. Wayne. I have thought the same. Her coverage of him has been very neutral. She has played down the negatives. She is the one who named him Superman. Its easy to figure out how she came up with that name." Luthor mockingly chimed.

"Yes, I saw the video of the two of them on the tarmac. Lane is known as an independent woman, a strong feminist, but she seemed to - well I got the sense she was more interested in looking at what was below his belt than in looking him in the eyes and getting honest answers." Bruce said with disgust.

"Indeed, she wants to bed him - pardon me for being so crude - if that is even possible, and that is reason enough for her to hide him."

"Well, judging from his tight costume, he does have the anatomy of a human male. Maybe Ms. Lane sees it as a challenge?!" Bruce said with sarcasm.

"Whatever - in any case I have a tail on Ms. Lane and am having her cell, e-mail and pretty much everything she does monitored. So far nothing."
"I've followed Ms. Lane's investigative work for a few years now. I admired her integrity and relentlessness in getting to the bottom of a story. This could have been the story that got her the Pulitzer, but she compromised her principles and clearly is writing this from the perspective of a smitten school girl. Such a disappointment." Bruce said - real sadness in his voice.

"Yes. Lane is a smart woman and yet this alien seemingly has been able to charm her. If he can charm Lane, he will have little problem in charming the masses. You are a history buff I understand, Mr. Wayne? Luthor asked.

"Yes." replied Bruce.

"Think last century, think Adolf Hitler. He charmed the masses. Few realize that he was voted into power by the German citizenry. But everyone knows what he did with that power once he achieved it. This alien is the Hitler of this new century. That is why its urgent we act immediately."

"So you are looking to capture him?" Bruce prodded.

"I don't know if that is even possible. He can be hurt, and severely so, as we see in the video - but that was at the hands of a fellow alien. No, a more permanent solution is required." a serious Luthor replied.

"As in terminate him - if that can be done?" Bruce proffered.

Yes Mr. Wayne, and I will need your help if we are to do that." Luthor said as he got up from his chair.

Luthor then walked Wayne over to the balcony and to a view of Metropolis from 110 stories up.

"This once was the most beautiful view in the world but look at it now! The fallen buildings, some still smoldering, the smoke visible in the sky. Look at that plot of land near the park. I just received city approval to build a 60 story condo with 15% of the units set aside for low-income people. Yesterday the group backing the loan pulled out - building in Metropolis is too much of a risk now."

Luthor went on, "I will have Ms. Graves take you on a personal tour of Reeve Medical Center so you can see and talk to the surviving injured. Their stories will have more of an impact on you than anything I could say."

"That won't be necessary Mr. Luthor. I'm sure Ms. Graves has more important things to do than be my personal tour-guide. I will have my driver detour to the Medical Center on my way back to the airport." Bruce continued, "I have been following this closely and everything you've told me confirms what I have found out from my own sources. Seeing it in person though has really brought it home to me."

"So, can I expect an answer from you on my proposal in the next few days Mr. Wayne?" an anxious Luthor asked.

'I don't need to think this over Mr. Luthor. Time, as you say, is critical. I accept your proposal. The alien, this Superman, must be terminated." Bruce replied in a firm, unequivocal tone.


Last edited by Tobias; 08-18-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 08-18-2013, 06:21 PM   #197
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Default Re: What if it flops?

Lois didnt name him Superman, the soldiers did .

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Old 08-22-2013, 05:42 AM   #198
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Default Re: What if it flops?

What if it flops? Remember Batman and Robin, possibly the worst
superhero movie ever made ? What happened 8 years later ? Batman Begins.

A lot of criticism has been levelled at MOS. I can't convince you it was great,
if you didn't like it, fair enough, but for me it was a huge success.

Personally, I loved MOS. There were flaws, but I just didn't care. I loved the flashbacks, and felt some real pathos for Clark Kent, and his struggle for identity. (and when I go see a movie about an indestructible flying alien, I expect there to be some bits that don't quite make sense).

There were a couple of lines, that he said as Superman (in costume) that were a little hokey, but I felt the film had a solid emotional core (established by solid performances by Lane, Crowe and Costner, and Cavill too).

Say what you like, but that moment when he first steps out wearing the costume, the "flight" scene, made me want to cheer. I remember seeing Reeve in SMTM back in '78, and walking out of MOS I felt the same kind of
elation - it was a different Superman, but it was the right Superman for today.
What made that feeling even better, was that I walked in with zero expectations (actually thought I'd hate it). So there you go,
you never know until you see it for yourself.

There are plenty of other movies I enjoyed that RT and critics have lambasted
eg. Tron legacy, having watched it many times on DVD, you come across the other themes in the movie, particularly the religious symbolism. It grows on you. By the same token, I really don't think a lot of the Toy story films, and the critics love them.


So, onto BM v SM, with the right casting for BM and a good story it'll be great, or more to the point, I'll enjoy it, which is all that matters to me.
As many people before me have said, it'll be tough splitting screen time between the two iconic characters, but it can still work.

I guess my point is, don't despair yet. Yes, it's possible that it could be
as awful as Iron Man 2, but that didn't kill Iron Man, or the Avengers, so
don't worry about it. (Hell, I found Andrew Garfield really annoying as
SpiderMan, and the film was even more contrived than most comic book
films, but that didn't prevent Marvel/Disney from prepping the sequels).

Superman will survive. One way or another Superman will fly on screen
again. (I think he did a great job this year) So chill, cross your fingers and
we'll see what happens when it comes out.

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Old 08-22-2013, 09:09 AM   #199
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Default Re: What if it flops?

I think we all feel we have a better idea of how to do the movie until we tell it to people and they pan it just as harshly as Goyer and Snyder's work.

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:04 AM   #200
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Default Re: What if it flops?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
In hindsight WB losing the lawsuit would have been better maybe. WB can't get it right it seems. Cavill was as big a disappointment just as Routh. If the role is driven strictly by looks and not acting skills what do you expect.
What exactly are you basing this on? I mean was there some sort of poll I missed?
Let's ignore all the good things most critics said about the man. You seem to always just make some statement based on your own views and negative precognitive powers or something, then repeat it in the next six or so posts until you are called out on it.

"Cavill was as big a disappointment as Routh." I had no idea that's what audiences thought.

Quote:
If JL turns out huge I wonder if JL2 will use Cavill or go with another actor? Cavill's contract for 3 films is up after WF and JL1. A stronger actor in JL2 could open up another Superman film at WB in maybe 10 years and not 15 or 20.
I bet I can guess what you are hoping for

Quote:
15 years is a long time. I've waited forever, well since the late 90's and they still haven't gotten it right.
For you maybe.

Quote:
The heirs' families are apparently going to appeal to the Supreme Court to win Superman from WB/DC - and presumably take him to Marvel/Disney. Need I tell you who I am rooting for in that court case - after SR and now MOS.
Let's ignore that this would mean Superman in the marvel universe and how odd that would be. I'd personally(cause I speak for myself) prefer MoS to most of Marvel's solo films. Thor and Cap and IM2 and TIH in particular. Would rather see more of this than more of that. But then again I speak for myself(and apparently box office agrees).

Quote:
If Marvel/Disney were to get Superman I don't think we'd have to wait 20 years for the next film.
Pretty sure you won't have to wait 20 years for the next film anyways. This was just a make believe fact you made up to scare us and apparently yourself too.

Too many groundless forgone conclusions for my liking.
You've been pushing this same stuff since pre-release, one look at the box office thread history says it all. It's like you had all this doom and gloom saved up.

The worst part is the film is a hit, WB green lit a sequel and they officially kick started their cinematic universe(something fans have been begging them for since 2006) in a very tactical and powerful way. But that's just one way of looking at it. One can also take all that and spin it into as negative a way as possible. Superman is hobbling along and may have been in better shape if Disney got the rights...

Where on earth did we get this idea that there are not going to be any more superman films? I can see why there might not be anymore Hulk movies but Superman?
Really?

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