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Old 08-22-2013, 06:39 AM   #226
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

if ever a dc comics movie does do well, it'll be DESPITE wb , not because of them, sadly

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:15 AM   #227
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

Interesting quote. I had a feeling WB was jumping the gun. They wanted MOS to do a lot better but this WF solution can almost be worse. Yes Batman is box office gold right now, but we are not going to see Nolan's batman with cav-el. It is going to be something different. And as much as we would whine about the chronological problems if Bale showed up in this world, it's something the public would expect and pay to see. Now I get it, people will pay to see superman and bats on screen, but this has such a potential for messing up both characters, and the fact that Snyder/Goyer are behind it is depressing. The wrong time to do this, the wrong people at the helm. People don't see this being a big gamble because they assume this will make a ton, and it will, but it's still a gamble long term.

If this summer is any indication, blockbuster/superhero movies need to either slow the eff down or just be a lot better. Not style over substance. And it's annoying to always make comparisons to TDK, but that's why it was the phenomenon it was. It was something everyone could watch and enjoy, and was actually good from the core outwards. It's not impossible for a movie about an alien in a red cape that flies to be that good, it just takes a good story obviously. And I am nervous that Goyer once again, with WB meddling, will be responsible for that story.

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:21 AM   #228
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

Batman is big "Right now", where was he after Begins...
I just don't get why people can't put this into perspective. WB may have wanted more(pretty sure they always do) but just how much more than Begins were they expecting exactly?

Where they supposed to double ASM and IM2 or something? Why is it people think a superman reboot is expected to do gangbusters right out the gate. I mean is it because the last one did?

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:23 AM   #229
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Batman is big "Right now", where was he after Begins...
I just don't get why people can't put this into perspective. WB may have wanted more(pretty sure they always do) but just how much more than Begins were they expecting exactly?

Where they supposed to double ASM and IM2 or something? Why is it people think a superman reboot is expected to do gangbusters right out the gate. I mean is it because the last one did?
Begins was no box office goliath, but it didn't get hammered by critics either. That's what I think WB's bigger concern is, or at least I hope it is.

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:52 AM   #230
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Interesting quote. I had a feeling WB was jumping the gun. They wanted MOS to do a lot better but this WF solution can almost be worse. Yes Batman is box office gold right now, but we are not going to see Nolan's batman with cav-el. It is going to be something different. And as much as we would whine about the chronological problems if Bale showed up in this world, it's something the public would expect and pay to see. Now I get it, people will pay to see superman and bats on screen, but this has such a potential for messing up both characters, and the fact that Snyder/Goyer are behind it is depressing. The wrong time to do this, the wrong people at the helm. People don't see this being a big gamble because they assume this will make a ton, and it will, but it's still a gamble long term.

If this summer is any indication, blockbuster/superhero movies need to either slow the eff down or just be a lot better. Not style over substance. And it's annoying to always make comparisons to TDK, but that's why it was the phenomenon it was. It was something everyone could watch and enjoy, and was actually good from the core outwards. It's not impossible for a movie about an alien in a red cape that flies to be that good, it just takes a good story obviously. And I am nervous that Goyer once again, with WB meddling, will be responsible for that story.
Its reactive film-making. That isn't good but that is WB and that sets it apart from Marvel which is planning its 2020 CBMs already. And yes I know Marvel is not WB but still.

TDKR did 1.1 billion. WF w/o Bale or Nolan - does WB expect it to do a lot better than that? I don't think it is a guarantee. Especially with Snyder and Goyer.

This is rushed and a huge risk as WB's one successful CBM franchise - Batman - could be seriously damaged. What if AV2 does close to 2 billion and SW 1.6 or so and WF not quite a billion. Imagine the negative press.

The film does not have to be out in 2015 - maybe cooler heads will prevail at WB.

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:53 AM   #231
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Begins was no box office goliath, but it didn't get hammered by critics either. That's what I think WB's bigger concern is, or at least I hope it is.
If WB's bigger concern is critics, then you change the creative team, you don't add more characters. They can't possibly think that since Batman came off a critically successful trilogy that adding him to the next Superman movie will make that a critical success. If they think that, then they are even dumber than I thought.

And let's be honest here. There is not a chance in hell this Superman/Batman movie will be received well critically. Not if there are no changes to the creative team. Just look at Snyder's track record. If anything, this film could end up doing worse, if it is indeed WB forcing him in a direction he didn't want to go.

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Old 08-22-2013, 08:53 AM   #232
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Begins was no box office goliath, but it didn't get hammered by critics either. That's what I think WB's bigger concern is, or at least I hope it is.
Hammered is what Green Lantern got. I'm pretty sure if WB was about the critics, than Returns may have got it's sequel.

That being said the films performance proved it was critic proof to a degree, how else can one explain it out grossing or at least competing with the IM and ASM films and more to the point, almost doubling the previous Superman film...critics or no.

Long story short, WB is almost in the same position as Paramount was in 2007 when critics "hammered" Transformers(the films have about the same score and have made about the same money)...
-pretty sure paramount was hella excited about TF.

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Old 08-22-2013, 09:00 AM   #233
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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And let's be honest here. There is not a chance in hell this Superman/Batman movie will be received well critically. Not if there are no changes to the creative team. Just look at Snyder's track record. If anything, this film could end up doing worse, if it is indeed WB forcing him in a direction he didn't want to go.
Exactly. Given AV1 got rave reviews and AV2 is likely to get solid reviews that makes the potential mixed reviews for WF - given the exact same creative team - worrisome. I really don't know what WB is thinking. Its doubtful Snyder/Goyer go from MOS to a critically acclaimed WF.

BTW, I've read critics don't like Snyder and part of the negative reaction is automatic cause Snyder directed. Don't know if there is anything to that.

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:19 AM   #234
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

We are forecasting reviews now?
Methinks it is too early to tell.


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Old 08-22-2013, 10:24 AM   #235
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

WB probably doesn't care about critical acclaim.

All they think is that shoving Batman into a movie guarantees huge profits. And while they're not entirely wrong, it seems like they're not looking at a bigger picture here.

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:44 AM   #236
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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WB probably doesn't care about critical acclaim.

All they think is that shoving Batman into a movie guarantees huge profits. And while they're not entirely wrong, it seems like they're not looking at a bigger picture here.
Actually it seems that is precisely what they are looking at.
TDK trilogy was them looking the other way whilst the other company was making executive decisions(serialized forgettable films) that had big long term benefits.

Now instead of another solo wb makes a uinverse building and franchise relaunching move that will set alot of things in motion, and it seems they are not looking at the big picture?

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Old 08-22-2013, 10:57 AM   #237
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

Batman will visually look the best he's ever been. But im afraid people will still be like "well that was cool, but I want a different director to take this Batman and prove to us they can give us something better as a story"...for a solo film.

With the right director they may be able to strike a perfect balance for the new actor. Since I don't really trust that Batman vs Superman will have a lot of substance when it comes to Bruce Wayne. Superman sure.

If the solo films continue Snyder's style instead of trying something with a little more weight to it....im afraid the fans will start longing for Nolan's Batman more than ever. And we all know WB and how they can't tie their own comic book movie shoes without Nolan.

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Old 08-22-2013, 01:01 PM   #238
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Yeah, honestly, Cavill is kinda replaceable. It's not that he's bad or anything, it's just that any capable actor could have done what he did in that movie.
I don't think he's replaceable right now.

I was disappointed in his performance, but I think a lot of it was that he had way too little dialogue - just like Routh. How they made that mistake again is hard to figure.

Plus he scowled too much in the film and that is Snyder's fault. Intimate story moments he could have had were sacrificed for a way too long fight sequence.

WF is Cavill's chance to make this role his. If he knocks it out next time he will be irreplaceable.

If not, who knows what WB will do. Maybe bring in a new actor for JL so they have continuity over 3 films and yet don't have to pay Henry a big bump up for JL2 and JL3 as Cavill's agent will probably insist on a much better monetary deal than he got for JL1 and WF and MOS.

Its in his court now and he has that incredible charm which if evident in WF will make it impossible for WB not to keep him.

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Old 08-22-2013, 01:08 PM   #239
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

I actually feel like he scowled and had pensive expressions in the right moments. If the world's at stake, he shouldn't be happy go lucky. But a quieter narrative could allow Superman to function at a less tense level, and smile more. He smiled plenty when talking to Lois and during the last scene of the movie.

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Old 08-22-2013, 01:29 PM   #240
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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I actually feel like he scowled and had pensive expressions in the right moments. If the world's at stake, he shouldn't be happy go lucky. But a quieter narrative could allow Superman to function at a less tense level, and smile more. He smiled plenty when talking to Lois and during the last scene of the movie.
Pretty sure he smiled throughout the film. People just have selective memories or simple want more.

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Old 08-22-2013, 01:51 PM   #241
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Pretty sure he smiled throughout the film. People just have selective memories or simple want more.
Yes he did every moment with Lois or his mother he was all smiles. Even was happy with the waitress till the guy started acting like a jerk. The only time he was serious was in dealing with Zod and the army.

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Old 08-22-2013, 02:13 PM   #242
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Yes he did every moment with Lois or his mother he was all smiles. Even was happy with the waitress till the guy started acting like a jerk. The only time he was serious was in dealing with Zod and the army.
Preconceived notions of a very smile driven superman in previous incarnations, has perhaps given due to a hyperbolic perception of what took place in MOS. As with many other over criticized things about this film.
-such as the he didn't care arguments.

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Old 08-22-2013, 02:20 PM   #243
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Yes he did every moment with Lois or his mother he was all smiles. Even was happy with the waitress till the guy started acting like a jerk. The only time he was serious was in dealing with Zod and the army.
Yup. Superman/Clark smiled when he should have like in those moments you mentioned above. Not sure I quite get the gripe with this one. When did people want him to smile more, as he was getting thrown through buildings? Or perhaps he should have smirked when he broke Zod's neck like how Reeve did after disposing of Zod in Superman 2.

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Old 08-22-2013, 02:23 PM   #244
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Yup. Superman/Clark smiled when he should have like in those moments you mentioned above. Not sure I quite get the gripe with this one. When did people want him to smile more, as he was getting thrown through buildings? Or perhaps he should have smirked when he broke Zod's neck like how Reeve did after disposing of Zod in Superman 2.
Considering most of these heroes today are smiling and quipping after disposing of villains, than perhaps so.

Though I'm pretty sure most of these people are arguing for a movie with more smile appropriate scenes present. Because that might make for a better movie somehow.

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Old 08-22-2013, 04:13 PM   #245
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Cavill was a B actor before.Superman and his performance.isn't being praised by anyone but superman fans. WB owes him nothing.
A difference from Marvel is that WB, with the exception of the Batman films, doesn't cast A actors in their CBM leads. Even FOX with The Wolverine cast A actor Jackman in the lead.

B actors in the lead is not necessarily a problem if you have an A list director and writers but in SR and MOS with Singer and Snyder it was B list directors. Same with the writers.

This is where the problem arises as average directing and scriptwriting can lead to a so/so film and its usually only A actors who can rise above a weak script and/or poor directing - and they can't always do it.

Maybe WB bringing Snyder and Goyer back is going to be counteracted by not just including Batman - WB may think Batman automatically overcomes creative difficulties with the film - but by selecting an A list actor for Batman. That combination may be WB's "magic" for WF.

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Old 08-22-2013, 04:19 PM   #246
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

Was Jackman an A-lister when X-Men came out 13 years ago?

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Old 08-22-2013, 04:34 PM   #247
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Was Jackman an A-lister when X-Men came out 13 years ago?
Nope; heck, the only thing that I heard he had on his resume was having a musical theater background.

If the first X-Men film was being made now and with all of the access and forums we have now on the Internet, the web would have exploded with the announcement of Hugh being chosen to play Wolverine due to his background and how tall he was.

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Old 08-22-2013, 04:54 PM   #248
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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A difference from Marvel is that WB, with the exception of the Batman films, doesn't cast A actors in their CBM leads. Even FOX with The Wolverine cast A actor Jackman in the lead.

B actors in the lead is not necessarily a problem if you have an A list director and writers but in SR and MOS with Singer and Snyder it was B list directors. Same with the writers.
Not sure Evans/Hemsworth or even RDJ were Alist stars when they signed their contracts...
And that goes double for most of the Marvel directors, including Whedon.
-this goes triple for the marvel writers....

-also pretty Singer coming off of Xmen wasn't quite Blist.
But that's me.

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