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Old 08-28-2013, 05:10 PM   #251
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Joker- what did you give Spidey 3?

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:14 PM   #252
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Here's your correction:

MJ was by far at her worst in Spider-Man 3. She tells Peter to tell her he loves her, and then never says it back to him when he does. She gets angry at him when he tries to reassure her about the bad review she gets. She throws him a hateful jealous look when she realizes the crowd outside her theater are clapping for Spidey and not her. She doesn't tell Peter she got fired and then gets all upset when she claims he doesn't understand how she feels.

She gets annoyed and jealous that he did the sacred upside down kiss with Gwen for a publicity stunt, but it's ok for her to use the kiss on John Jameson, and that was a private intimate kiss. Should Peter get annoyed every time she kisses a guy in a play?

She gives into Harry's pathetic threat and dumps Peter. Harry doesn't threaten her life, or Aunt May's or anyone else's. Just Peter's. She knows first hand Peter is more than able to deal with Harry since she's seen him take on Green Goblin and Doc Ock successfully. Instead of just telling Peter what Harry is doing she breaks Peter's heart instead. What's even worse is that Harry can still try and kill Peter after this anyway.

She kisses Harry when she's with Peter. She's finally with the guy she's supposed to love and she still ends up kissing another guy anyway.

Awful character in Spider-Man 3. The worst.
Thank you.

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:20 PM   #253
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Here's your correction
You are absolutely wrong, and I won't agree with you

Quote:
MJ was by far at her worst in Spider-Man 3. She tells Peter to tell her he loves her, and then never says it back to him when he does.
I know good women who do that, is that wrong? No
Don't use it as a con
Quote:
She gets angry at him when he tries to reassure her about the bad review she gets.
She cools down fast, doesn't keep on a fit
Quote:
She throws him a hateful jealous look when she realizes the crowd outside her theater are clapping for Spidey and not her.
Momentarily frustration does not equal jealousy, sometimes the wrong expression comes out, or it's translated in a wrong way. MJ was not jealous
Quote:
She doesn't tell Peter she got fired and then gets all upset when she claims he doesn't understand how she feels.
She tried, he never listens
And that moment of "you don't understand how I feel" was before she was told of her replacement

Quote:
She gets annoyed and jealous that he did the sacred upside down kiss with Gwen for a publicity stunt, but it's ok for her to use the kiss on John Jameson, and that was a private intimate kiss.
A wife kissing her husband is not wrong, doesn't matter the way
MJ and Peter were dating when he kissed Gwen

Quote:
Should Peter get annoyed every time she kisses a guy in a play?
Yes, a kiss is a kiss, it's planned, and they know of it beforehand
How is that not cheating?

Quote:
She gives into Harry's pathetic threat and dumps Peter. Harry doesn't threaten her life, or Aunt May's or anyone else's. Just Peter's. She knows first hand Peter is more than able to deal with Harry since she's seen him take on Green Goblin and Doc Ock successfully. Instead of just telling Peter what Harry is doing she breaks Peter's heart instead. What's even worse is that Harry can still try and kill Peter after this anyway.
She knew they fight early in the movie, and didn't want them to fight again
Why is it so hard to see?

Quote:
She kisses Harry when she's with Peter. She's finally with the guy she's supposed to love and she still ends up kissing another guy anyway.
I told you before, and I'm still saying it, it was a whim of a moment, unplanned, unintentional, it happens cause pheromones were flying and neither wanted it
I'm sorry, but what stops feeling change when it comes to acting?

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Awful character in Spider-Man 3. The worst.
Biting on teeth and cooling grudges is obviously worse than breaking a more prominent, more significant promise of sacred matrimony
Ok, I don't see it

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:21 PM   #254
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Picard Sisko View Post
Thank you.
You both hate on the better version more than the worst version, and I made it clear why in SM2 she's much worse

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:36 PM   #255
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder View Post
Joker- what did you give Spidey 3?
The middle finger

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Originally Posted by Picard Sisko View Post
Thank you.
My pleasure.

Just stating the obvious though.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz View Post
You are absolutely wrong, and I won't agree with you
Your agreement is not necessary when talking facts. They'll still be facts whether you agree or not.

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I know good women who do that, is that wrong? No
Don't use it as a con
Yes it's a con. Who tells someone to tell them they love you and not say it back to you afterward? One sided MJ.

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She cools down fast, doesn't keep on a fit
Not the point. She should never have got pissed at him over him just trying to be nice to her in the first place.

Quote:
Momentarily frustration does not equal jealousy, sometimes the wrong expression comes out, or it's translated in a wrong way. MJ was not jealous
Of course she was jealous. She just threw a filthy look to the man she supposedly loves and the man who saved her life several times. Why? Because he got a little round of applause from citizens who show more appreciation of him than she does.

Quote:
She tried, he never listens
She tried once. She didn't even try again. She decided to chew his ass out over Gwen and her polished fingernails.

Quote:
And that moment of "you don't understand how I feel" was before she was told of her replacement
No it was after. At the dinner. "You have no idea how I feel right now".

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A wife kissing her husband is not wrong, doesn't matter the way
No, but she equated it to "our kiss" as in something she shared with Spider-Man/Peter. So why is it ok for her to use this sacred kiss on someone else?

Quote:
MJ and Peter were dating when he kissed Gwen
It was a meaningless publicity stunt to please the crowd who were the ones chanting for it. Like actors kissing in a movie or on stage.

Quote:
Yes, a kiss is a kiss, it's planned, and they know of it beforehand
How is that not cheating?
Because planned or not, it's still just a publicity kiss. No different to a movie kiss. All for show. For the crowd.

Quote:
She knew they fight early in the movie, and didn't want them to fight again
Why is it so hard to see?
Bull. How did she know they fought earlier in the movie? Peter never told her. She didn't even know why Peter and Harry were not friends any more "What's with you guys anyway?".

Second not telling Peter is not stopping Harry from trying to kill Peter anyway. At least if he knows he knows that MJ still loves him and that there's an impending threat close to him that he can be prepared for.

But instead MJ decides breaking his heart and not telling him his best friend did it is the best option.

Rubbish!

Quote:
I told you before, and I'm still saying it, it was a whim of a moment, unplanned, unintentional, it happens cause pheromones were flying and neither wanted it
You can say it til you're blue in the face, it doesn't change a thing. The fact she ended up kissing Harry at all just shows what kind of a person she is. She initiated it, too.

Quote:
Biting on teeth and cooling grudges is obviously worse than breaking a more prominent, more significant promise of sacred matrimony
Ok, I don't see it
Yes it's worse. At least you can say that she never loved John in SM-2. Any animosity she showed toward Peter in 2 was because she didn't know he was Spider-Man and his constant letting her down looked bad from her side.

In Spider-Man 3 she knows everything, they are finally together, and she treats him like dirt, behaves like a hypocrite, lets his life be in danger unknowingly without telling him, breaks his heart needlessly, and kisses his best friend.

Yeah, to say she was worse in SM-3 is an understatement.

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:41 PM   #256
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Your agreement is not necessary when talking facts. They'll still be facts whether you agree or not.
My agreement matters
When I'm wrong, I say it
When I'm not, I say it

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:44 PM   #257
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz View Post
You both hate on the better version more than the worst version, and I made it clear why in SM2 she's much worse
Well, what's better or worse is opinion at this point, so...

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:47 PM   #258
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Sigh, I think someone needs to remind us again to stop derailing the thread
Did the thread run its course for us who gave our answer to the title?

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Old 08-28-2013, 06:09 PM   #259
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Sigh, I think someone needs to remind us again to stop derailing the thread
Did the thread run its course for us who gave our answer to the title?
It seems ok to derail the thread if the sole purpose is to bash SM 3

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Old 08-28-2013, 06:14 PM   #260
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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It seems ok to derail the thread if the sole purpose is to bash SM 3
It's a harsh truth.

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Old 08-28-2013, 06:24 PM   #261
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
Here's your correction:

MJ was by far at her worst in Spider-Man 3. She tells Peter to tell her he loves her, and then never says it back to him when he does. She gets angry at him when he tries to reassure her about the bad review she gets. She throws him a hateful jealous look when she realizes the crowd outside her theater are clapping for Spidey and not her. She doesn't tell Peter she got fired and then gets all upset when she claims he doesn't understand how she feels.

You've used this as damning evidence of how awful MJ was before.Having watched the film again recently,I can't see this "hateful jealous" look you describe.Disappointed,frustrated,dejected-OK."Hateful"? I'm guessing you haven't seen the film since the theater,and if that's the case,you ought to at least check out the scene again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Joker View Post
She gets annoyed and jealous that he did the sacred upside down kiss with Gwen for a publicity stunt, but it's ok for her to use the kiss on John Jameson, and that was a private intimate kiss. Should Peter get annoyed every time she kisses a guy in a play?
Again,as I said before MJ was testing her feelings for JJ against her kiss with SPIDER-MAN-NOT PETER.It's not like she was dating/semi-engaged to Peter like they were in SM 3.How you can not see a difference is beyond me,but far be it from me to try continually to convince you.

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She gives into Harry's pathetic threat and dumps Peter. Harry doesn't threaten her life, or Aunt May's or anyone else's. Just Peter's. She knows first hand Peter is more than able to deal with Harry since she's seen him take on Green Goblin and Doc Ock successfully. Instead of just telling Peter what Harry is doing she breaks Peter's heart instead. What's even worse is that Harry can still try and kill Peter after this anyway.

She kisses Harry when she's with Peter. She's finally with the guy she's supposed to love and she still ends up kissing another guy anyway.

.
Again,it's more a story contrivance.Not a particularly effective one to be sure,but it's not beyond the realm of plausibility that she believed she was protecting Peter.There should've been a scene to cement that fact.

She ends up kissing Harry due to a little thing called "drama" that writers like to introduce into stories every so often.

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Old 08-28-2013, 06:24 PM   #262
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Torch View Post
It seems ok to derail the thread if the sole purpose is to bash SM 3
Ain't that the truth.

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Old 08-28-2013, 07:09 PM   #263
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Originally Posted by Picard Sisko View Post
TDKR was a very flawed script filled with plot holes and pacing issues. TDK didn't come close.
And so does TDK. But people choose to brush those off to the side because it's "TDK OMFG BEST MUUUVII" But I digress.


And I actually, shockingly agree with Joker on this debate. MJ is a horrible character in these films. And she gets worse as the series goes on. She's nothing more than a bland, drab, negative cipher. A mere goal for Peter to accomplish.

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Old 08-28-2013, 07:12 PM   #264
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Raimi didn't know what to do with MJ I think that's clear as the films went on

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:16 PM   #265
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Originally Posted by Human Torch View Post
You've used this as damning evidence of how awful MJ was before.Having watched the film again recently,I can't see this "hateful jealous" look you describe.Disappointed,frustrated,dejected-OK."Hateful"? I'm guessing you haven't seen the film since the theater,and if that's the case,you ought to at least check out the scene again.
I've seen the movie in theaters, and I have it on blu-ray, too. I stand by what I said. She throws him a dirty jealous look.

Quote:
Again,as I said before MJ was testing her feelings for JJ against her kiss with SPIDER-MAN-NOT PETER.It's not like she was dating/semi-engaged to Peter like they were in SM 3.How you can not see a difference is beyond me,but far be it from me to try continually to convince you.
BS. She was using the sacred amazing kiss on a guy she doesn't even love. If she has to kiss a guy upside down to know if she loves him or not then she's even more shallow than I gave her credit for.

Quote:
Again,it's more a story contrivance.Not a particularly effective one to be sure,but it's not beyond the realm of plausibility that she believed she was protecting Peter.There should've been a scene to cement that fact.
I know the movie expects us to believe she was protecting Peter, but unless she only has two brain cells floating around her head, then she should have clearly seen that was not the way to do it since there wasn't a damn thing to protect Peter from Harry just because she's broken up with him. Not to mention she KNOWS Peter can handle himself. He doesn't need protecting. But he sure as hell needs a warning when someone he thinks is his best friend is out to get him.

Quote:
She ends up kissing Harry due to a little thing called "drama" that writers like to introduce into stories every so often.
What drama did that add to the story? Nothing. The kiss is never mentioned again, meaning MJ was made look like a loose lips harpy again for no reason.

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Old 08-29-2013, 12:46 PM   #266
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Don't worry Torch and Aziz, it's ok if you like Spidey 3! Perhaps a future generation will look back at CBM's and see it the way you do!

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Old 08-29-2013, 06:47 PM   #267
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Hey I like SM3 a lot too. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in it but I still like it.

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Old 08-29-2013, 08:35 PM   #268
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Yeah,I think most people feel that way.

I just don't get the "Like Batman & Robin- OMG<WURST FILM EVR!!!!"comparisons.



I'd rather watch SM 3 every day and twice on sunday than TASM.

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Old 08-29-2013, 08:56 PM   #269
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

For me all 3 of Raimis films aint great, but SM3 has abit of an edge just because I enjoyed seeing the black suit scenes taken from the comics, aka bell tower and hanging upside down on the building

Other then that... Glad we got a new universe set up now, hope to see venom and the black suit again but with more care

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Old 08-29-2013, 09:55 PM   #270
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Hey I like SM3 a lot too. That doesn't mean I can't see the flaws in it but I still like it.
Exactly
It's not the best Spidey film, but definitely not one without joy

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Old 08-30-2013, 12:55 PM   #271
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Yeah,I think most people feel that way.

I just don't get the "Like Batman & Robin- OMG<WURST FILM EVR!!!!"comparisons.



I'd rather watch SM 3 every day and twice on sunday than TASM.
I think it's great that just because a certain film is unpopular you still rand by it, even though I disagree with it I respect that . I enjoy B&R too.

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Old 08-30-2013, 01:26 PM   #272
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

I was extremely disappointed with SM3 in the theaters and still have feelings of 'what could have been' with the film's potential. However, these days I'm able to watch the movie with greater affection. Time heals wounds maybe, I dunno. It's def not as horrible as people make it out to be, like say near the dreadful Catwoman level of atrocity. There are some very cool moments sprinkled throughout and are worth watching over and over.

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Old 08-30-2013, 03:55 PM   #273
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

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Yeah,I think most people feel that way.

I just don't get the "Like Batman & Robin- OMG<WURST FILM EVR!!!!"comparisons.



I'd rather watch SM 3 every day and twice on sunday than TASM.

"Well, why go to a fine restaurant, when you can just stick something in the microwave? Why go to the park and fly a kite, when you can just pop a pill?"

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:06 PM   #274
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Old 08-30-2013, 04:47 PM   #275
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Default Re: Who thought SM2 was Overrated?

Human Torch your avatar makes me cringe lol

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