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#976 |
A real fan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,025
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I think the main simple reason why TDKR rubbed some comic fans the wrong way is simply the plot/story Nolan told for TDKR.
At the end of Begins you have the Joker set-up/card and it said to fans that The Joker would be in the follow-up. Then at The Dark Knight ending you have Batman on the run from the cops and becoming the villian. But in The Dark Knight Rises it by passes some of those threads and solves some of them off screen to tell an ending to the series. Though the characters are in the state that they are because of the events of the last film. It is a tie-up to everything that has happened in the first two films. -Bruce has done his job but what now... -Batman needs to be the symbol of hope to Gotham he set out to do in Begins, -The LOS makes a last attempt at completing their own mission aswell as getting back at Bruce Wayne. -Bruce lost the woman he wanted to be with now has to find someone else to spend the rest of his life with. -Has to not rely on Batman to live life. -Plus in a new film you also have to introduce some new elements in the new movie. -The Gotham P.D going from corrupt in the first two films to standing up for their city and doing their job correctly with Batman not being needed. But you also have to show that Batman was the right choice for Bruce and his city. Without Batman Gotham would be worse off. |
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#977 |
Everything Under the Sun
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
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I'll never get tired of seeing people try to justify why I don't like TDKR
![]() It seems to always boil down to "you didn't get it" or "it's not what you wanted." BS. I knew about 8 years retirement, about Talia, about the League of Shadows, and about a whole lotta other things that I didn't really like in the movie. But going in I was totally ready and willing to buy into it. But it just didn't work. For me and many others the problem isn't with the story, it's with the way the story is told. So please, if you LOVE TDKR, and you're ever about to make a post trying to justify why other people don't like it, please just don't ![]() Last edited by Brain Damage; 08-29-2013 at 06:39 AM. |
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#978 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 425
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Even before Rises TDK prevented this trilogy from being perfect. Most overrated movie of this decade.
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#979 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 29,369
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Sure. Both sequels will be long remembered after the vast majority of these superhero movies now have faded.
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"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country." --John Adams |
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#980 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 16,038
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"Lets make one thing very clear here - Nolan's films are as faithful an adaptation as there is. It pays homage to its source material, remains true to its characters and above all else places the story first and foremost." - jmc |
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#981 | |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
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#982 |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,573
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Alfred leaving Bruce pretty much left a lump in my throat when I first watched the film. It's pretty much an enabler telling the drug addict "enough is enough. I'm not going to watch you kill yourself".
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#983 |
Newbie First Class
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Seatown
Posts: 18
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If I had to choose one of the three films that prevented it from being "perfect", it would be Batman Begins in my opinion. TDKR was slow in the middle but it was intense. Much more intense than BB. However, TDK wins it all. It's not flawless, but it is the best out of all three.
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#984 | ||
Banned User
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2,844
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#985 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 29,369
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It is too much, because Bruce is passed his prime. He could use his resources to help Gotham in other ways, instead he has a bit of a death wish. There can reach a point where enough is enough. Alfred reached that.
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"Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country." --John Adams |
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#986 |
Everything Under the Sun
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
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All my problems with TDKR stem from the script.
From a filmmaking standpoint it's superb. Other than maybe Bane's voiced being mixed so damn loud ![]() But Jesus, that script is weak. Particularly in the dialogue. Not only is it more exposition heavy than anything else Nolan's done, but it's also just flat and uninteresting. It's the kind of dialogue many writers use for the first draft just to get the story across, and then go back later on and make interesting. And yet, there are SOME scenes that are really well written, and are as good as anything else in the trilogy. Bruce and Selina dancing comes to mind. The contrast in quality from scene to scene is mind boggling. |
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#987 |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
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No way is TDKR more exposition heavy than Inception. The first hour of Inception is exposition. But, fun exposition for the most part.
TDKR is a pretty strong script. Definitely stronger than Begins in terms of dialogue. Jonah is the best dialogue writer of the three, and there's a noticeable jump in dialogue quality from BB to TDK/TDKR. |
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#988 | |
Screwed up Avenger
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: S.W.O.R.D.
Posts: 4,288
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"That's how it starts. The fever, the rage, the feeling of powerlessness that turns good men.... cruel." |
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#989 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 260
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"it just didn't work" and "it's with the way the story is told" aren't reasons. So I can't blame people for trying to "justify why other people don't like it" when those people don't give real reasons. Actually it would be weird if they didn't make some attempt to justify it. |
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#990 |
A real fan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,025
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I try and get all types of views on this trilogy from comic and non-comic fans and it's gets very interesting on the things both partys liked and didn't about these films. I tend to get with comic fans that their reasons for they way they view these films stems from things to do with the source material and the non-comic fans really only view these films on an entertainment value only. But this is from just me talking to people I know personally in my life not on the internet.
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#991 |
A real fan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,025
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Alot of people that I know were surprised that Christian Bale didn't return as Batman for Man Of Steel 2 when Ben Affleck was announced as Batman for that new film tells me alot about the way some people view these films. When I told them that Bale's version/story was finished and couldn't/shouldn't be in MOS 2 because of that reason some responses were oh I did'nt know that, He was just on holiday, Robin is just looking after the batcave/gotham just waiting for Bruce to return.
It just shows that maybe they are not really invested to pay attention to details/story. Maybe because that film was so sucessful that Bale would return in their eyes. They all had seen the trilogy but still said those things. |
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#992 | ||
Twip
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,409
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The following post is my opinion so take it as you will. |
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#993 | |||
Everything Under the Sun
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
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![]() After over a year of discussing this movie, I'm all reasoned out. If you're really curious about my opinion on specific parts of TDKR you can look at my post history. |
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#994 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 260
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#995 | |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
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I think that line is more of an example of a somewhat cheesy line (and all three movies have them) that could've been cut all together as opposed to a flat out bad line. I mean, Bruce even tells Ra's in BB "I am gonna stop you!", so it's not like it's inherently bad for Batman to say something like that to the villain. Plus, I feel like important part of that line is him saying "No" in response to coming back to die. Part of the whole finding the will to live again angle. |
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#996 | ||
Shadow On The Run
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Neo-Gotham
Posts: 2,153
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#997 | |
Lobsterized
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 11,471
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#998 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: SF Bay area, California
Posts: 248
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#999 |
Third Man
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,573
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The best retort Batman could have had to Bane would be exactly what he said to Ra's in BB: "It ends here". He could have even said "No...it ends here". It would have been a perfect throwback to Begins to boot.
But yeah, the whole exchange is just flat. It would have been better to have both Batman and Bane kind of circling each other in a primal way; while saying there lines and then they can start going at it. I'm really surprised it was shot the way it was. |
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#1000 | |
Everything Under the Sun
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,861
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BatLobsterRises, you mentioned the "I am going to stop you" line. Which I have to admit, on paper, is cheesy as hell. But Bale's delivery and the way that scene is cut never made me question it. So yeah, though I didn't realize it before, the way the "I came back to stop you" bit is shot is just as much of a reason why it doesn't work as the line itself. |
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