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Old 08-30-2013, 12:56 PM   #51
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

MCU films:

Iron Man 3
Mandarin in Iron Man 3 was the only major "slap in the face" out of the MCU for me. It took me right out of the movie when his true identity was revealed. In fact, I wish I had been spoiled about that before I had seen the movie just so I could go in prepared. It didn't bother me as much the second time I saw it because I knew it was coming, but it was still pretty weak, given how much they hyped him up.

Since I'm a stickler for continuity and I hate recasting, I could say the recasting of Bruce Banner and Rhodes were a slap to the face and Marvel could have just played ball with Norton and Howard, but since Ruffalo and Cheadle have done a great job with their roles, I'll let it slide.

Non-MCU films:


Fantastic Four Films
Casting Jessica Alba as Sue Storm. I didn't even like it back when it was first announced. I thought the other three did a solid job, especially Michael Chiklis as Thing, but she was just miscast. Dr. Doom was a joke as well. And the Galactus cloud was just utterly stupid.

Spider-Man 3
Now, I liked Spider-Man 3. I still do. Is it a great film? Not particularly, but I do find it enjoyable. In fact, I find the "Birth of Sandman" scene to be one of the best in Raimi's trilogy. Was Venom given the short end of the stick? Yes, but at least it was somewhat faithful to the character and not an abortion like cloud Galactus or Barakapool. He was forced into the story due to fan service. Venom is my favorite Spider-Man villain, so I was at least happy we got to see him on the big screen and hopefully they do the character more justice in the new Spider-Man series. But the one thing I can't forgive is Emo Peter. That was just ridiculous.

X-Men: The Last Stand
I don't have the same problems with X3 as others do. In fact, I kind of liked it. Cyclops's death didn't bother me because I never cared for the character in the films. But what did bother me was how short it was. The fact that the movie is only an hour and a half is a giant slap in the face. That's not enough time to properly resolve all of the plot lines. The movie was rushed, and it shows. I also feel like too many characters were sidelined, like Rogue and Mystique. Hell, they introduced Angel and they barely gave him anything to do. It's a bit of a mess, but it's nothing compared to...

X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Pretty much the whole damn movie. It's so bad it makes X-Men: The Last Stand look like X2. The only redeeming factor is Liev Schrieber's Sabretooth. Deadpool in the beginning was a little true to the character even though he wasn't wearing a mask, so I'll let that slide. But Weapon XI (aka Barakapool aka Deadpool In Name Only) was an abomination. The character's nickname is "The Merc With A Mouth" and what do they do to his mouth? Sew it right the **** up. Are you kidding me?!? That whole ordeal was just salt on the wound after seeing my favorite X-Men character Gambit on screen for a measly five minutes of screentime. What the hell happened there, Fox? Thank god they've been moving in the right direction with this franchise since First Class.

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Old 08-30-2013, 01:12 PM   #52
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I think we all know that the reason Jessica Alba was casted as Sue Storm in the first place is because at that time she was considered the hottest woman on the planet. Everytime I saw her on screen with Chris Evans I didn't see a brother and sister, if I didn't know anything about the movie I would think they were a couple.

One of the things that really bugged me about X3 was that they have the original five X-Men in the movie and there could have been an opportunity to have them on screen all together but unfortunately that didn't come to be.

And I hate hearing the Ratner commenary on the blu-ray, because he mentioned that he saw an X-Men encyclopedia found random characters and just put them in the movie; which explains a lot. And he sounds like such a frat boy when he talked about adding the "I'm the Juggernaut *****!" line in the movie.

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Old 08-30-2013, 01:16 PM   #53
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I can't see how anyone can think Venom or Cyclops were handled worse than Deadpool, atleast they LOOKED like their comic counterparts.
Venom was kinda skinny. Venom has generally been shown to be huge. I think people hated his alter-ego and the screen time he got.

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Old 08-30-2013, 02:03 PM   #54
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Easily Cyclops. Easily.

Cloud Galactus, Bland businessman Mandarin, and Marco Polo Doom were all terrible....but at the end of the day, Mandarin and Doom were still treated like their respective heroes arch fiends, and Galactus was still treated like a big deal.

Cyclops on the other hand? Scott Summers is a Stan Lee created character, one of the original X men, the Classic Field leader, and has been apart of many classic moments and storylines.

And All Fox did was treat him like a foil for Hugh Jackman. His relationship with Jean, the biggest romance in the X Universe is just there, because Fox would rather show you Hugh Jackman sticking his tongue down Famke Janssen's throat. He was barely shown as THE defacto field leader, and his promise of taking over the school for Xavier is never developed in X2 or 3, with Storm eventually taking that position. With each successive film in the trilogy, Cyclops' role was more and more diminshed. To the point where a second rate character like Pyro had a more compelling storyline.

What happens to him in X3 is even a bigger slap in the face when, as mentioned, it was done due to petty executive meddling. But in addition to that, once the script to X3 leaked and the fans were furious, Simon Kinberg and Zak Penn were sent to a X Film message board to do some obvious damage control. Then spent months in the leadup to the movie telling people that everything would be fine. That Cyclops would have a good role.

Turns out everything went down exactly like AICN's script review described. When the writing was on the wall, I remember Zak Penn straight up saying that Fox had designed the X films to revolve around Logan from the beginning. And don't forget that its believed that Jim Caviezel passed on the role of Cyclops because he just seemed like a foil to Wolverine.


So yeah, Cyclops' mistreatment is the biggest Marvel Film slap in the face.

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Old 08-30-2013, 02:11 PM   #55
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Spider-man 3, Fantastic Four and its sequel. All horrid movies.



But Mandarin twist takes the biscuit.

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Old 08-30-2013, 02:13 PM   #56
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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And don't forget that its believed that Jim Caviezel passed on the role of Cyclops because he just seemed like a foil to Wolverine.
Smart move.

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Old 08-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #57
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

^ Hahahaha, I should've known you'd like that tidbit.

Imagine, if Cyclops were treated with some respect, we could've had an actor like Caviezel in the X Franchise.

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Old 08-30-2013, 02:45 PM   #58
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

James marsden could've been a really good cyclops if he had better material to work with.

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Old 08-30-2013, 02:51 PM   #59
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I would have made Wolverine the main character too as he's the most popular character and Hugh Jackman was the best actor in the franchise that wasn't a senior citizen. But they still should have made it more of an ensemble with Cyclops as a proper foil. It is similar to the situation in The Avengers, where Iron Man is the more popular lead 'bad boy' character except in it they still treated Captain America with respect and had him in his role as field leader and a proper match for Stark. Cyclops is barely a character at all, his role is so minimized and he is treated as a joke by pretty much everybody (from Wolverine stealing his bike and his girlfriend, to getting his ass kicked in the few fights he gets, to being talked about as not being qualified to lead anybody by Xavier, to spending half his screentime crying, to minor stuff like listening to boy bands). It is like we were supposed to hate him.

That said Marvel comics right now is doing its best to destroy the character too.

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Old 08-30-2013, 03:37 PM   #60
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Caviezal's casting as Cyclops could have been groundbreaking. However, having said that, part of the problematic characterization of Cyclops extends to Marsden: in constructing the character, he decided to shade Cyclops in douche-y shades. While the writing and directing limited some of the characterization, at the end of the day, it is the actor who applies the final touches to the material.

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Old 08-30-2013, 03:56 PM   #61
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I guess my main problem with the X-Men film series is that nobody ever calls out Wolverine on his ****. As the badboy character of the series, that is kind of necessary. Iron Man has Captain America (and Rhodey and Pepper in the solo films), Han Solo has Luke & Leia, James Bond has M and Felix, Kirk has Spock, etc. But Wolverine is ALWAYS presented as being right. At least until his latest film.

That's not an acting issue, that's a script issue.


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Old 08-30-2013, 04:02 PM   #62
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Nothing bothers me more than Cyclops.

And for all the praise First Class gets, they didn't even try to give Cyclops his due glory, when they had the first and best opportunity to do so.

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:03 PM   #63
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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I guess my main problem with the X-Men film series is that nobody ever calls out Wolverine on his ****. As the badboy character of the series, that is kind of necessary. Iron Man has Captain America (and Rhodey and Pepper in the solo films), Han Solo has Luke & Leia, James Bond has M and Felix, Kirk has Spock, etc. But Wolverine is ALWAYS presented as being right. At least until his latest film.

That's not an acting issue, that's a script issue.
Fair enough.

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Old 08-30-2013, 04:10 PM   #64
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I get all the complaints, but I really don't get how anyone can say anything but Galactus. That was THE most ridiculous thing I have ever seen. That poopy cloud

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Old 08-30-2013, 05:34 PM   #65
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I knew Galactus wasn't going to be anything to write home about, and at least Silver Surfer had his moments.

But Cyclops is the leader of the X-Men (not a villain, who we can assume will get the short stick) and he got shafted in not 1, not 2, but 3! movies. Had a useless cameo in Origins and wasn't even mentioned in First Class.

Again: The first member of the X-Men, was nowhere to be found in FIRST class.

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Old 08-30-2013, 05:52 PM   #66
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Galactus didn't bother me much. He was always more of a force of nature than a real character and is still treated as a real threat. There are larger problems with the FF films. The treatment of Doom was much worse.

In X-Men, Havok gets more characterization in one film than his brother does in four.

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Old 08-30-2013, 06:26 PM   #67
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I'm a Cyclops fan (And I loved Marsden as him),but I never had as strong a reaction as most have had.I thought they did great with him in X-Men.

In X-2 he got kicked to the curb,but his actual time on screen was powerful.(and the film was so good,it generally gives it a pass.)

X-3,yeah they dropped the ball....but Singer was using Marsden in SR,so I don't know that he'd have gotten much screentime regardless.

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Old 08-30-2013, 06:39 PM   #68
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I'm a Cyclops fan (And I loved Marsden as him),but I never had as strong a reaction as most have had.I thought they did great with him in X-Men.

In X-2 he got kicked to the curb,but his actual time on screen was powerful.(and the film was so good,it generally gives it a pass.)

X-3,yeah they dropped the ball....but Singer was using Marsden in SR,so I don't know that he'd have gotten much screentime regardless.
In the first film he is handled fairly well. You at least can sense he was in charge before Wolverine showed up. His best action scene wasn't until X-Men 2, and it was the shortest one in that movie, and he lost it, while the defense of Professor Xavier was on the line.

I wouldn't call it great. It would be a different matter if we were talking about some 2nd tier X-Man, but not Cyclops. I understand that Wolverine was the big draw for the franchise, but come on.

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Old 08-30-2013, 09:05 PM   #69
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In the first film he is handled fairly well. You at least can sense he was in charge before Wolverine showed up. His best action scene wasn't until X-Men 2, and it was the shortest one in that movie, and he lost it, while the defense of Professor Xavier was on the line.

I wouldn't call it great. It would be a different matter if we were talking about some 2nd tier X-Man, but not Cyclops. I understand that Wolverine was the big draw for the franchise, but come on.
X2 was doing the Weapon X stuff, so it made sense for Wolverine to get the focus. X3 was adapting DPS, where Scott is one of the two main characters, and Whedon's Gifted, where he is ALSO one of the main characters, so dismissing him like that was unacceptable. Also, apparently Singer was going to make Scott the main character in his X3, which makes me even more angry that Ratner made the movie instead. Also, I never got any douchey vibes from Marsden, he was annoyed by Wolverine, and he had good reasons to be.

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Old 08-30-2013, 09:13 PM   #70
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Yeah that wasn't Marsden's fault, the script called for a douchey character to be in the way of Logan's love interest so low and behold Cyclops ends up being portrayed as a douche. I think Marsden could have been real impressive, as impressive as Jackman was if they gave us the real Cyclops.

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Old 08-30-2013, 09:18 PM   #71
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Yeah that wasn't Marsden's fault, the script called for a douchey character to be in the way of Logan's love interest so low and behold Cyclops ends up being portrayed as a douche. I think Marsden could have been real impressive, as impressive as Jackman was if they gave us the real Cyclops.
No, I meant that Scott NEVER seemed like a douche at all to me. I actually disagree completely with people who make that argument. He seemed pretty close to his comics counterpart to me (a lot of fans argue that comic Scott is a douche for abandoning Maddie, his affair with Emma, and the AVX debacle)

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Old 08-31-2013, 06:21 AM   #72
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Centering the X-movies around Wolverine.

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Old 08-31-2013, 12:45 PM   #73
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No, I meant that Scott NEVER seemed like a douche at all to me. I actually disagree completely with people who make that argument. He seemed pretty close to his comics counterpart to me (a lot of fans argue that comic Scott is a douche for abandoning Maddie, his affair with Emma, and the AVX debacle)
I get what you were saying now. I do think a lot of people claim Cyclops to be more of a douche than he really was due to the poor handling of the character. But I can't agree that he was "pretty close" to his comic counterpart.

I really like the X-Men movies I just get frustrated with them since Cyclops is my favorite character on the team. I think the movies could've been better if he had a more prominent leadership role.

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Old 08-31-2013, 12:59 PM   #74
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Easy.

Mandarin. unlike most others he was done with the intention of screwing the character over and turing him inot a joke

Next would be Jarvis

>

He went from a loyal friend and butler in the comics to a computer A.I in the movies.

Those imo are the 2 most comic inaccurate adaptions with Deadpool bringing up the rear.

As for poor movies, all studios have had them and are varying degrees of poor

As to casting big name actors who don't fit the role but are used because they draw audiences (Jessica alba, Ben Affleck ect...), i've noticed this more and more recently. Glenn close as Nova Prime, Bencio Del Toro as the Collector, James Spader as Ultron, Jamie Foxx as Electro. None of these fit the characters imo, even though they are good actors and will do a good job.

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Old 08-31-2013, 01:02 PM   #75
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

They did the Jarvis thing because they didn't want the GA to think IM was a copy of Batman.

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