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Old 08-31-2013, 09:34 PM   #101
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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His character was a joke in the scene where he was supposed to be. Not a joke through out the whole movie. I don't recall any one laughing at his broadcasts.



Now I really have to watch it again. I too was irritated how the movie disregarded trying to mesh with the events from Singers films, especially with him producing. Vaughn did say the movie was not intended to follow the continuity of the originals, which some people liked, but I thought it was a mistake. Even more so now since with DoFP we know the movies are connected.
X1, X2, FC, AND TW are all better than IM 2 and IM 3 imo. Also, I love how people are saying that Close and Spader "don't fit" their roles over a year before we see Close in action and two years for Spader. It's so premature as to be laughable. Apparently, being dead wrong so many times in the past (Evans as Cap, Ledger as Joker, Hathaway as Catwoman, etc) hasn't taught certain fans not to jump the gun.

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:12 AM   #102
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His character was a joke in the scene where he was supposed to be. Not a joke through out the whole movie. I don't recall any one laughing at his broadcasts.
The very fact that the pre-twist Mandarin was taken so seriously is precisely why the twist was a joke when it shouldn't have been at all.

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Old 09-01-2013, 02:30 AM   #103
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Making Sandman the killer of Uncle Ben. Not only was it a slap to the fan watching the movie, but to Peter, the character within the movie it's self.

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Old 09-01-2013, 05:32 AM   #104
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I'd say every Marvel third entry sucks with Spider-Man 3 being the worst of the bunch.

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Old 09-01-2013, 06:41 AM   #105
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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The very fact that the pre-twist Mandarin was taken so seriously is precisely why the twist was a joke when it shouldn't have been at all.
Exactly he was built up as a menacing, great looking villian then shat upon.

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Making Sandman the killer of Uncle Ben. Not only was it a slap to the fan watching the movie, but to Peter, the character within the movie it's self.
Yeh i hated that. And Sandman was too sympathetic imo

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Old 09-01-2013, 06:49 AM   #106
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Also, I love how people are saying that Spader "don't fit" their roles.

who said that? ever? I mean it just seems that EVERYONE loves that casting. I haven't read ANY negative reaction about it. neithere here on this boards nor on the grumpier regions of the internet

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Old 09-01-2013, 07:20 AM   #107
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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The very fact that the pre-twist Mandarin was taken so seriously is precisely why the twist was a joke when it shouldn't have been at all.
The Twist wasn't a "joke," it was a statement. About the way we invent boogeymen to justify/hide the truth about the real bad guys (see: Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Muamar Ghadafi, et al.) The Mandarin from the comics was the "joke." Always has been.

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Old 09-01-2013, 07:59 AM   #108
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The Knauf's Director of SHIELD/Haunted arc from just 4 years ago featured a story where Tony was forced to deal with a loss of tech, centered around the use of Extremis and showcased an updated Mandarin that was probably the most effective use of the character to date and featured none of the fu-manchu elements.

Its the movie the IM3 trailers pretended to be.



Marvel copped out hard, plain and simple.

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The Mandarin. Easily.

Not because I love the character or whatever, no, I hate what they did because basically all of Iron Man 3's excellent trailers, posters and tv spots sold us a completely different movie from the one we ended up getting.
About a whole year's worth of spin sold this movie as an epic battle between Hero and Nemesis in which Stark finally suffers defeat and had to fight his way back from destruction. Kingsley's Mandarin looked and sounded friggin' ferocious too... THIS was gonna be good!
...yeeeeeaaah.

Now, studios overhype their films all the time. No surprise there. But what Marvel did went way beyond that... they outright lied about what the film was.

And even then -even then!- I could have forgiven that, all of it... if what the film was actually about wasn't so friggin' boring...

Eh, rant over.
Completely agreed, I came to expect a lot of that crap from other studios - but Marvel had earned a great deal of trust over the last several years with smart adaptations that retained the core of the characters and was respectful to the source material. IM3 has made me way more leery of Marvel's other films, especially in light of it looking like Ultron will not be a product of Hank Pym.

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Old 09-01-2013, 08:09 AM   #109
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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The Knauf's Director of SHIELD/Haunted arc from just 4 years ago featured a story where Tony was forced to deal with a loss of tech, centered around the use of Extremis and showcased an updated Mandarin that was probably the most effective use of the character to date and featured none of the fu-manchu elements.

Its the movie the IM3 trailers pretended to be.



Marvel copped out hard, plain and simple.
Wasn't the Director of SHIELD Mandarin exactly the incarnation of that character we got with Kilian?

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Old 09-01-2013, 08:16 AM   #110
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Not at all, the Mandarin's motivation in that arc is that he wants to mend his ways and do something good for humanity so he tries to release Extremis on a world wide scale so that the 2% of the population that survives (which he knows won't include himself so this is a suicide mission) will be superhuman and free from disease and injury.

Aside from that he's still not a nerd turned bad, displays remarkably little ego or arrogance instead coming off as somebody who's been tempered by a lifetime of battle and hard experiences and heck isn't even particularly interested in revenge on Iron Man. Tony would survive as he's already compatible with Extremis and Mandarin knows that. He comes off more as a mad idealist than as a Edward Nigma rip-off.

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Old 09-01-2013, 08:34 AM   #111
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

X-men 3 with Cyclops... **** Bryan Singer, **** Brett Ratner, **** Tom Rothman...

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Old 09-01-2013, 09:14 AM   #112
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Making Sandman the killer of Uncle Ben. Not only was it a slap to the fan watching the movie, but to Peter, the character within the movie it's self.
How about Peter "forgiving" him because of their personal issue and letting him go in spite of all the crimes he committed and lives he took?


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The Twist wasn't a "joke," it was a statement. About the way we invent boogeymen to justify/hide the truth about the real bad guys (see: Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Muamar Ghadafi, et al.)
Show me a movie where Osama, Hussein and Ghadafi are drunken comedy actors and I'll show you one crappy movie.

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The Mandarin from the comics was the "joke." Always has been.
Even if that were so, the movie's pre-twist Mandarin was not. Until they felt comedy justifies just about anything.

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Old 09-01-2013, 09:31 AM   #113
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X-men 3 with Cyclops... **** Bryan Singer, **** Brett Ratner, **** Tom Rothman...
Bryan Singer had NOTHING to do with X3, how do so many people not realize that?

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Old 09-01-2013, 09:50 AM   #114
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Bryan Singer had NOTHING to do with X3, how do so many people not realize that?
He left to make SR so X3 had to be done by someone else. I think that's the complaint.

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Old 09-01-2013, 10:02 AM   #115
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I don't remember people talking about the mandarin's villain status before the film's release.

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Old 09-01-2013, 11:24 AM   #116
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Thank you senator pleasury for the clearer explanation

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Old 09-01-2013, 12:16 PM   #117
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He left to make SR so X3 had to be done by someone else. I think that's the complaint.
That's because Fox was rushing the film and Singer was having disagreements with them. I don't blame him for leaving under those circumstances, especially after being offered SUPERMAN. Matthew Vaughn also left X3 for similar reasons.

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Old 09-01-2013, 12:41 PM   #118
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Not at all, the Mandarin's motivation in that arc is that he wants to mend his ways and do something good for humanity so he tries to release Extremis on a world wide scale so that the 2% of the population that survives (which he knows won't include himself so this is a suicide mission) will be superhuman and free from disease and injury.

Aside from that he's still not a nerd turned bad, displays remarkably little ego or arrogance instead coming off as somebody who's been tempered by a lifetime of battle and hard experiences and heck isn't even particularly interested in revenge on Iron Man. Tony would survive as he's already compatible with Extremis and Mandarin knows that. He comes off more as a mad idealist than as a Edward Nigma rip-off.
Uhhh no way man. The way you interpreted Mandarin's motives in that story is way off. There was no nobility in his actions, he definitely wasn't doing it with good intentions, and he was definitely all ego. The dude is a maniac, and Killian had all the same elements.

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The very fact that the pre-twist Mandarin was taken so seriously is precisely why the twist was a joke when it shouldn't have been at all.
Says you. The way I see it, everything Trevor did while on screen was Killian speaking through him, and makes the real Mandarin of the film more interesting. Trevor was a humorous character when we see the truth revealed but the whole twist is not the/a joke.

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Making Sandman the killer of Uncle Ben. Not only was it a slap to the fan watching the movie, but to Peter, the character within the movie it's self.
Man can't believe I forgot that. Maybe I was trying to erase it from my subconscious. The way it played out didn't really absolve Peter of the*blame, as some viewers like to think, but I am still surprised they even decided to go there.


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Old 09-01-2013, 01:22 PM   #119
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Uhhh no way man. The way you interpreted Mandarin's motives in that story is way off. There was no nobility in his actions, he definitely wasn't doing it with good intentions, and he was definitely all ego. The dude is a maniac, and Killian had all the same elements.
Are you sure you're not getting Fraction's IM story mixed up with the Knauf's?

Because what he is trying to accomplish in Haunted is going to very much kill him in the process. He's very clear about what his goals are and why he's doing it. He's trying to do something that he considers beneficial to mankind, its his villain morality which makes his plan heinous. If you want to dispute that you're welcome to of course but you're going to have give examples from that story to back up your argument.

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:40 PM   #120
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Are you sure you're not getting Fraction's IM story mixed up with the Knauf's?

Because what he is trying to accomplish in Haunted is going to very much kill him in the process. He's very clear about what his goals are and why he's doing it. He's trying to do something that he considers beneficial to mankind, its his villain morality which makes his plan heinous. If you want to dispute that you're welcome to of course but you're going to have give examples from that story to back up your argument.
I am not disputing his plan, but you seem to be implying he actually believed he was doing it to make the world a better place. I remeber him trying to smooth Maya over with that kind of talk but I don't recall Mandarin actually buying into it. Besides, forced Darwinism, makes him some kind of reformed humanitarian that doesn't have an ego and isn't arrogant?

That sounds more like Doc Ock in Spider-Man 600, whose plan in that issue was genuinely him trying to do a good thing for the city with his intelligence after failing so many times. (And even then his subconscious hate for Spider-Man ruined his plan). I don't recall Mandarin busting out of that Chinese prison for similar reasons.


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Old 09-01-2013, 01:47 PM   #121
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Are you sure you're not getting Fraction's IM story mixed up with the Knauf's?

Because what he is trying to accomplish in Haunted is going to very much kill him in the process. He's very clear about what his goals are and why he's doing it. He's trying to do something that he considers beneficial to mankind, its his villain morality which makes his plan heinous. If you want to dispute that you're welcome to of course but you're going to have give examples from that story to back up your argument.
Yeah that is what he told Maya but you seem to be implying he actually believed he was doing it to make the world a better place. Forced Darwinism, makes him some kind of reformed humanitarian that doesn't have an ego and isn't arrogant?

That sounds more like Doc Ock in Spider-Man 600, whose plan in that issue was genuinely him trying to do a good thing for the city with his intelligence after failing so many times. (And even then his subconscious hate for Spider-Man ruined his plan). I don't recall Mandarin busting out of that Chinese prison for similar reasons.

And as representations of the Mandarin in the book to film this one is obviously the closest. Especially with Mandarin fronting a company under a fake persona to misdirect his opposition.


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Old 09-01-2013, 01:52 PM   #122
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That's because Fox was rushing the film and Singer was having disagreements with them. I don't blame him for leaving under those circumstances, especially after being offered SUPERMAN. Matthew Vaughn also left X3 for similar reasons.
Exactly.



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Says you. The way I see it, everything Trevor did while on screen was Killian speaking through him, and makes the real Mandarin of the film more interesting. Trevor was a humorous character when we see the truth revealed but the whole twist is not the/a joke.
Sure, Ra's al Ghul also did the same in BB. But, for god's sake, they didn't turn fake Ra's into a stinky joke.

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:54 PM   #123
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Well no, you got me at fart jokes, but Ra's' battle cry sometimes makes me laugh.

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Old 09-01-2013, 02:11 PM   #124
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I am not disputing his plan, but you seem to be implying he actually believed he was doing it to make the world a better place. I remeber him trying to smooth Maya over with that kind of talk but I don't recall Mandarin actually buying into it.
When he released Extremis after Tony had beaten him to a pulp he literally said, "You lose, humanity wins."

Couple that with that's just how Extremis works and everything he did was to that end.

If you're suggesting he was lying about his motivations you kind of need an example to point to that suggests that, there is none in the comic as far as I know. But if that is your argument then point out examples please?

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And as representations of the Mandarin in the book to film this one is obviously the closest. Especially with Mandarin fronting a company under a fake persona to misdirect his opposition.
There's only been 1 Mandarin on film, how can it be the closest out of them?

And Killian wasn't a fake name. He created a fake person to blame his explosions on. Again he has more in common with Edward Nigma who committed crimes as the Riddler while his true identity was that of a successful businessman than the Mandarin in this case.

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Old 09-01-2013, 02:32 PM   #125
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I meant that of all the iterations of Mandarin in the comic book, the one from the Knauf's run was the closest to what we saw on screen, I know you disagree.

I would have to read the story again to go any further into it, which I certainly wouldn't mind doing as it is an awesome story, but I will concede to you sir, your memory of the story is obviously better than mine.

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