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Old 09-01-2013, 12:01 PM   #601
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

are you honest?

Is 'memorable' the right word you wanted to use?

yes, he had his moments, but none was something memorable for the general audience, either for the fans.

Something memorable is something that creates a great impact in the audience, something really special that most of the audience loved and connected to.

Thats not something we could use often for most of the characters of this franchise, either for most franchises.

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Old 09-01-2013, 12:03 PM   #602
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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are you honest?

Is 'memorable' the right word you wanted to use?

yes, he had his moments, but none was something memorable for the general audience, either for the fans.

Something memorable is something that creates a great impact in the audience, something really special that most of the audience loved and connected to.

Thats not something we could use often for most of the characters of this franchise, either for most franchises.
Yes, that's exactly the word I wanted to use.

Some of the most memorable moments from both of those movies are built around Cyclops.

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Old 09-01-2013, 12:06 PM   #603
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

true i remember alot of memorable moments when cyclops got his ass kicked, like with toad and lady deathstrike then out for the count for a while

cyclops was mostly there to find new ways to not use him

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Old 09-01-2013, 12:07 PM   #604
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Yes, that's exactly the word I wanted to use.

Some of the most memorable moments from both of those movies are built around Cyclops.
interesting opinion then, to say the least

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Old 09-01-2013, 12:15 PM   #605
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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true i remember alot of memorable moments when cyclops got his ass kicked, like with toad and lady deathstrike then out for the count for a while

cyclops was mostly there to find new ways to not use him
Not really.

Cyclops' "You taught me everything in my life that was ever worth knowing. If anything happens, I'll take care of them" monologue to a comatose Xavier is a VERY Cyclops-esque moment, and one of the moments that really stood out to me when I first saw the first movie that made me feel like I was really truly watching an X-Men movie.

Cyclops reaction to Jean Grey at the end of X2 is one of the best moments ripped straight out of the source material.

Hell, even in X-Men: The Last Stand, despite getting a **** fate in that movie, he gets a badass moment riding to the lake, complete with his own epic theme music and looking like a general badass, before getting reunited with the love of his life in an intimate moment before getting taken out.

And while you say that Cyclops was good for getting his butt whooped, he's the one that finally took out Sabretooth and Magneto in X-Men, and despite getting taken out by Lady Deathstrike, he took her out first and she had to catch him from behind when he turned to save Xavier. Also... that part is kinda taken directly out of the comic book... sooooo........

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Old 09-01-2013, 12:22 PM   #606
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

the Xavier-Cyclops scene in X1 was to me Cyclops best scene in the whole franchise.

That's the only moment were I connected to Scott. And felt like it was actually a really good scene, that showed that he has a strong connection with Charles and cares about his dream.

The rest of his scenes in the trilogy were more or less saying No to any other character, mainly Jean and Wolverine.

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Old 09-01-2013, 12:46 PM   #607
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

scotts glasses were quite translucent in Origins


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Old 09-01-2013, 01:05 PM   #608
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Those wouldn't work though. The periphery would destroy everything.

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:35 PM   #609
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

yeah, that was a totally unrealistic approach. Another 'great' decision made by Origins crew, lol.

And one interesting question would be: Who did give those glasses to Scott?

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:41 PM   #610
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

If Fox were interested in developing Cyclops they could use his inability to look at anyone with his own eyes, without the glasses, and without hurting anyone, to make him sympathetic. It could be something that's explored in a prequel where Scott deals with his difficulty to connect with others and his feelings for Jean.

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:49 PM   #611
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

yeah, that material alone is more than enough to make him a complex and interesting character that the audience would connect to and feel for him.

And maybe with a young actor, that would be easier to achieve, I guess. Young boys would connect with him more, and young girls could 'fall in love' with the character in some way too, so that along with Cyclops fans and x-men fans alike, would be more than enough to make him more beloved as a movie character.

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Old 09-01-2013, 02:01 PM   #612
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Those wouldn't work though. The periphery would destroy everything.
The red glasses don't work like that. They trick his brain into thinking that his energy blasts are already 'on'...

There's a lot more to the character than we've seen so far in the films.

Wikipedia alone has a wealth of stuff that would be great to see adapted, especially as we've done Wolverine to death now.

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Old 09-01-2013, 02:19 PM   #613
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

If he looked to the side his brain wouldn't be tricked anymore though...

Edit that is why his glasses in X1-3 made sense.

They cover his peripheral as well as his straight on rage of sight.

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Old 09-01-2013, 03:17 PM   #614
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I'm hoping that once the timeline changes, we'll see Cyclops appear again after the credits.

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Old 09-01-2013, 03:50 PM   #615
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I've read on some forum a while ago that one of the reasons movie makers are reluctant to make Cyclops a main character is because he's a character whose eyes the audience can never see and therefore cannot really connect to.

My initial reaction to this was, "huh what", but I wonder if there's some truth to this.
Sounds more like an excuse than a real reason, although it wouldn't surprise me if someone at Fox really put that out there as their reasoning.

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Old 09-01-2013, 03:58 PM   #616
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I'd bet there were more than one producer thinking that.

Lets not forget how Marvel are kind of afraid to put Chris H. with the helmet, since the audience may not know Thor is the same actor and wouldnt look hot enought to appeal to the female audience.

As stupid as this sounds, this is how many studios think, well, many producers, I mean.

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:36 PM   #617
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I'd bet there were more than one producer thinking that.

Lets not forget how Marvel are kind of afraid to put Chris H. with the helmet, since the audience may not know Thor is the same actor and wouldnt look hot enought to appeal to the female audience.

As stupid as this sounds, this is how many studios think, well, many producers, I mean.
Oh I wouldn't disagree that it couldn't have been a consideration. It is certainly a hurdle to overcome with his character on screen.

But I don't believe that it justifies or explains why he was handled the way he was in the OT. No one was asking for Cyke to be THE leading character. And I would argue that he got a good amount of screen time -- he WAS a main character if you look at the OT as ensemble movies. It was what he did in the screen time that was the problem. I think Fox just didn't know how to make Wolverine-centric X-Men movies with someone ELSE as the team leader, so Scott was relegated to being the person in Wolverine's way.

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Old 09-01-2013, 05:21 PM   #618
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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If he looked to the side his brain wouldn't be tricked anymore though...
These are just the types of things you gotta ignore tho.

It's the same way Logan has to have his hands in a specific position everytime he pops his claws, otherwise they would come through his palms.

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Sounds more like an excuse than a real reason, although it wouldn't surprise me if someone at Fox really put that out there as their reasoning.
As an actor, I can tell you first hand that it is not an excuse.

That's not the reason why Cyclops got what he got in the main trilogy, but not having your eyes is a definite hindrance to an actor.

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Old 09-01-2013, 05:52 PM   #619
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Cyclops reaction to Jean Grey at the end of X2 is one of the best moments ripped straight out of the source material.
Do you mean, during the scene where Jean sacrifices herself? I thought that Marsden's acting was pretty cringeworthy in it, to be honest. Although Wolverine crying "she's gone" a little bit later was just as bad and mars what is otherwise an emotional scene.

His scene with the unconscious Xavier in X1 was good, but it wasn't really enough IMO to give a character his own identity outside of the love triangle.

Cyclops' role in X1, to me, was to be a nice, dependable, square foil to Logan's cool edgy badboy. It's a kind of role Marsden seems stuck with - he was the same "safe" guy in The Notebook and Superman Returns as well. And Enchanted to a degree.


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Old 09-01-2013, 06:24 PM   #620
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Do you mean, during the scene where Jean sacrifices herself? I thought that Marsden's acting was pretty cringeworthy in it, to be honest. Although Wolverine crying "she's gone" a little bit later was just as bad and mars what is otherwise an emotional scene.
This. Everything else before that was good (his running after her, ordering Storm to lower the jet), but his "Don't say that!" is tough to watch.

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Cyclops' role in X1, to me, was to be a nice, dependable, square foil to Logan's cool edgy badboy. It's a kind of role Marsden seems stuck with - he was the same "safe" guy in The Notebook and Superman Returns as well.
I've noticed this about Marsden roles too. In X1 and X2 Logan is after his girl, Ryan Gosling sleeps with his fiancee in the Notebook, he's raising a kid he thinks is his in Superman Returns, and in As Cool As I Am his wife has an affair.

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Old 09-01-2013, 06:36 PM   #621
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

He should have an action movie as the lead, where he is the ****ing baddass character, and the whole audience ends on his side.

would be awesome if he had his own action franchise like Bourne, Taken... that would change the general image people has about him as an actor.

Im sure that would have a direct influence on the x-men franchise, helping movie Cyclops to be treated much better in the next sequels.

Sadly, to get an action franchise doesnt happen to many actors, so I guess its unlikely.

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Old 09-01-2013, 09:35 PM   #622
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Actually Shawn had one more film on his contract. He was signed for three films when he came back for X2.
With that, his contract is done now.

Three films - X2, TLS, DOFP

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But do you think they will just cast aside Jennifer Lawrence, James McAvoy, Michael Fassbender, Nicholas Hoult (and Evan Peters)?
Yes, why not? If a X-Men film just featuring the OT cast would get more money than a X-Men film featuring those 4. Plus they could always hire actors that haven't appeared in X-Men yet.

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are you honest?

Is 'memorable' the right word you wanted to use?

yes, he had his moments, but none was something memorable for the general audience, either for the fans.

Something memorable is something that creates a great impact in the audience, something really special that most of the audience loved and connected to.

Thats not something we could use often for most of the characters of this franchise, either for most franchises.
Being killed so early in X3 is pretty memorable.

His reaction to Jean's death in X2 is memorable too!

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Old 09-02-2013, 12:23 PM   #623
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I think it's widely excepted he died even though it was a off screen death! I think we canonly hope for a a small cameo at the end of DOFP with a changed universe.

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Old 09-02-2013, 02:32 PM   #624
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Do you mean, during the scene where Jean sacrifices herself? I thought that Marsden's acting was pretty cringeworthy in it, to be honest. Although Wolverine crying "she's gone" a little bit later was just as bad and mars what is otherwise an emotional scene.
Your reply wasn't aimed at me, but I want to chime in and say I thought those scenes didn't really work for me either. Neither did the scene in X3 where Wolverine was sobbing over Xavier's empty wheelchair. To me, the acting wasn't very good in these scenes, the emotion didn't feel sincere.

Compare it with the Xavier/Magneto 'serenity/memory' scene in First Class and that felt very genuine, and very well acted.

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Old 09-02-2013, 03:37 PM   #625
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Hey, if Psylocke is coming back for X-Force and Cable is also appearing, I think that confirms that Cyclops is back in the new timeline.

I'm also hoping that certain characters have new backstories this time around.

For instance:

Rogue was raised by Mystique and her partner Destiny after she was abandoned as a child due to Mystique's own guilt about abandoning Nightcrawler. Destiny later died and Sabertooth was a horribly abusive stepfather who was far to extreme for this timeline's Magneto which led Sabertooth to joining Sinister's Marauders. She also never took the cure.

Nightcrawler is a Catholic priest in Germany instead of an acrobat. He was never kidnapped by Weapon X.

Wolverine never returned to Weapon X years after getting his adamantium grafted on to him. He therefore still has all of his memories and has spent the past few decades as an X-Man along with Beast

Phoenix never died and had a son with Cyclops who would later grow up to be Cable.

Sabertooth is still alive and still wants revenge against Wolverine.

Magneto is more of an anti-hero than a villain. The Brotherhood are still more extreme than the X-Men but Magneto is going to be far more likely to ally with Xavier than he was in the original trilogy.

Pyro is a common thug without Xavier and/or Magneto in his life.

Angel joined the X-Men after his family decided he should learn to control his power rather than be cured of it.

Psylocke joined X-Force after being recruited from the Morlocks by Cable.

Deadpool still has his mouth.

Gambit will join the first class team along with Havok, Beast and Wolverine in the 70s.

Apocalypse, Selene, Omega Red and Sinister will pick up where Magneto and Mystique left off by not being as vile in this timeline.

Cameron Hodge and Donald Pierce will replace Stryker as the main human threat.

Senator Kelly is still demanding that mutants register.

Bastion probably survived DOFP (depending on whether Master Mold or Nimrod appears) and made it into the present.

X-Factor will make an appearance with a roaster of Multiple Man, Polaris, Forge Cyclops, Phoenix and Siryn

We'll get a New Mutants film with Rictor, Meltdown, Surge, Jubilee, Hellion, Prodigy and Chamber.

Those changes would be VERY welcome.

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