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Old 07-07-2013, 08:50 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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I prefer Hulk without real dialogue. When Hulk is capable of operating independent of his seething explosive rage, he becomes cartoonish to me, much less interesting, as Question put it.

The Hulk is a monster, he should be constantly dangerous. That moment in Avengers where Hulk seemed like he was ready to smash Cap just for speaking to him. That's a rage monster. That's a force of nature. A big green lughead playing cards with his buddies isn't really an epic mythic character. It's a gag, on some level.
I do think I agree with you. The Avengers are flawed. Iron Man is human, Captain America is out of his time, Thor is arrogant and otherworldly, Hulk is a monster.

When you have a team with powerful characters weakened by their flaws, they are strengthened by their companionship. When Hulk is less monstrous, or when Thor is too relatable as a mortal, they become too perfect and they might as well be Clark Kent.

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Old 07-08-2013, 04:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

I loved Mark R. as Banner, but I can't see his version of The Hulk sticking around for very long, even with "companionship". I don't think, no matter what the seems to be the character's arc in A1, that Banner/Hulk is destined to be an accepted hero in the MCU. Whedon often describes Hulk in terms like a monster or Werewolf movie. The tensions and tropes of those kinds of films don't lend themselves to tentpole popcorn flicks. I think Hulk will have a bittersweet parting with the team, either by the end of A2 or A3.

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Old 07-19-2013, 08:07 AM   #28
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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I don't think there's even two people here. There's just one: Banner. The Hulk is Banner when he lets his anger out.
You're wrong. Banner and Hulk are two distinctly different characters that dislike each other at the best of times. Hulk needs to talk and grow as a character. Period. I swear that 70s tv show has done nothing but damage the Hulk character and continually having Lou Ferrigno cameo isn't helping. Hulk is so much more than the mindless brute so many people have him pegged as.

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Old 07-19-2013, 05:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

Marc R. and Whedon hit on a great way to encapsulate the Banner\Hulk dynamic: "The other guy". If you want to think of Banner unleashing his anger as being the rational for the transformation, or MPD, or the creation of two discreet entities from one body, the way they describe it is apt. I just wish we could get Hulk's view of "The Other Guy". That's why he SHOULD have a voice.

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Old 07-19-2013, 09:00 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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You're wrong. Banner and Hulk are two distinctly different characters that dislike each other at the best of times. Hulk needs to talk and grow as a character. Period. I swear that 70s tv show has done nothing but damage the Hulk character and continually having Lou Ferrigno cameo isn't helping. Hulk is so much more than the mindless brute so many people have him pegged as.
It's the MCU, not anything else. It's a suppressed part of Banner's anger, a different personality, thus a whole different personality, but it's STILL Banner. Just like someone with Alternate Personality Disorder is still THE person, the other personality just thinks it's someone else

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Old 07-19-2013, 09:56 PM   #31
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It's the MCU, not anything else. It's a suppressed part of Banner's anger, a different personality, thus a whole different personality, but it's STILL Banner. Just like someone with Alternate Personality Disorder is still THE person, the other personality just thinks it's someone else
And the fact that it is different in the comics usually, means nothing here. In the MCU, it is the way it is.

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Old 07-19-2013, 10:26 PM   #32
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And the fact that it is different in the comics usually, means nothing here. In the MCU, it is the way it is.
This is one of reasons Hulk has failed in film so far. The Hulk is not a personality disorder, he's a seperate being with a brain and a voice. As long as those in charge of the MCU and fans continue to pigeonhole Hulk into this simple role it will continue to fail.

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Old 07-19-2013, 11:26 PM   #33
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This is one of reasons Hulk has failed in film so far. The Hulk is not a personality disorder, he's a seperate being with a brain and a voice. As long as those in charge of the MCU and fans continue to pigeonhole Hulk into this simple role it will continue to fail.

Peter David's legendary run in the comics was predicated on his belief that MPD was indeed the rationale behind the Banner/Hulk dichotomy. That's Hulk's comic history.

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Old 07-20-2013, 08:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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This is one of reasons Hulk has failed in film so far. The Hulk is not a personality disorder, he's a seperate being with a brain and a voice. As long as those in charge of the MCU and fans continue to pigeonhole Hulk into this simple role it will continue to fail.
Except everybody absolutely loved The Hulk in The Avengers and want to see a Hulk movie starring Ruffalo now.

The notion of The Hulk literally being a separate being from Bruce Banner isn't exactly the purest and most "real" interpretation of the character. A lot of comics treat it as one person with a personality disorder.

Also that interpretation is just straight up better. The Hulk as a personality disorder is a powerful statement about the human condition. The Hulk as a literal other person who just sometimes swaps places with Bruce Banner is just kind of meaningless. It doesn't say anything about anything, it's just a guy who's brain is haunted.

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:21 PM   #35
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

Can't wait to see what Banner has been up to in between the events of IM3 and Avengers 2.

Any word on him getting additional cameos in either GOTG or CA2? It's the least they can do considering he isn't getting a solo film anytime soon.....

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Old 08-30-2013, 10:36 PM   #36
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Can't wait to see what Banner has been up to in between the events of IM3 and Avengers 2.

Any word on him getting additional cameos in either GOTG or CA2? It's the least they can do considering he isn't getting a solo film anytime soon.....
I think it would be funny as hell if every post credit scenes (sans GOTG) leading to A2 was something humorous with Banner. I think that the scene with Stark and Banner in IM3 was at the tower. I think that's where he's been, and I think that by the start of A2 it will be the home for most of team. Cap, Thor, Tony and Banner will all hang their hats there.

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Old 08-31-2013, 03:02 AM   #37
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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Can't wait to see what Banner has been up to in between the events of IM3 and Avengers 2.

Any word on him getting additional cameos in either GOTG or CA2? It's the least they can do considering he isn't getting a solo film anytime soon.....
- Listened to Captain America for 3 hours, about how he has been struggling with the modern world
- Took a 2 hour nap trying to help Barton recollect pre-Natasha punch memories; Thor wanted to have a session with Banner, but Barton told him to get in line
- Played Angry Birds on his iPod while Natasha was babbling about some love triangle
- Finally, couldn't take all the whining anymore, put a bullet in his mouth aaaand .... Hulk sequel


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Old 08-31-2013, 03:09 AM   #38
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- Listened to Captain America for 3 hours, about how he has been struggling with the modern world
- Took a 2 hour nap trying to help Barton recollect pre-Natasha punch memories; Thor wanted to have a session with Banner, but Barton told him to get in line
- Played Angry Birds on his iPod while Natasha was babbling about some love triangle
- Finally, couldn't take all the whining anymore, put a bullet in his mouth and .... Hulk 3

- Cashed checks from team for their "therapy" sessions so he could buy Harry Dean a motorcycle after the one he borrowed got smashed by a space Leviathan.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:14 AM   #39
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

That's his secret! He's always playing Angry Birds.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:10 AM   #40
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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Can't wait to see what Banner has been up to in between the events of IM3 and Avengers 2.

Any word on him getting additional cameos in either GOTG or CA2? It's the least they can do considering he isn't getting a solo film anytime soon.....
Barton needs to show up in Phase II, since he doesn't have a film either. Maybe they could do a short of him & Banner hanging out at the Tower.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:39 AM   #41
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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This is one of reasons Hulk has failed in film so far. The Hulk is not a personality disorder, he's a seperate being with a brain and a voice. As long as those in charge of the MCU and fans continue to pigeonhole Hulk into this simple role it will continue to fail.
Both films were close. They both succeeded where the other one failed I think.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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Both films were close. They both succeeded where the other one failed I think.
Agreed. And note that the biggest success with the Hulk yet was in the Avengers, where the Hulk was. . . still a facet of Banner's mind. Which, frankly, is what the Hulk almost always is in the comics, too.

One can argue that not giving the Hulk a speaking role is a mistake, but there isn't any good reason to make the Hulk a literal separate person, ala Rick Jones/Mar-Vell.

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:15 PM   #43
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

Hulk may not have spoke in the Avengers, but he was no idiot either. He stood there and waited patiently for Cap to give the others orders, then obeyed Cap's orders. He was also able to work on a team and comprehend what the others were saying an doing. He also remembered Banner's bromance with Tony since Hulk was the one who save IM when he was falling. Personally, I prefer a more intelligent Hulk. Planet Hulk is my favorite Hulk story and he became a freaking King in that story. I also loved Hulk in Avengers: EMH.

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:34 PM   #44
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

I do want the hulk to say a few more words in A2. He seemed like he had some intelligence in the avengers, despite not saying much

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Old 09-23-2013, 06:25 AM   #45
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

I want to see more Hulk dialogue, and not just the two word variety. You know like, "Hulk smash!" or "Puny Human"

Generally, the Hulk is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but even so, he`s better than what we have seen so far in all his movie outings.

I definitely would love to see Ruffalo doing a hitchhiking scene. Even better with a few bars of the melody that accompanies it.

Personally, I like it when Banner and Hulk are treated as separate mentalities. It made for some interesting reading in the comics when they went that way.

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Old 09-23-2013, 09:04 PM   #46
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

He shouldn't constantly talk, but he should make a comment here and there and maybe respond with a glare or something when someone says something to him, or have like one scene where he actually talks for a good while, shocking everyone else in the room. In that Agents of SMASH cartoon he's basically Professor Hulk, which I don't want.

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Old 09-23-2013, 09:18 PM   #47
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EMH Hulk-level intelligence would work quite nicely.

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Old 09-23-2013, 09:21 PM   #48
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I like that all the media, the comics and cartoons are pretty much making the fact that the only person he really respects and will adamantly listen to is Cap. He likes Tony, but only because Banner is his vitriolic buddy.

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Old 09-26-2013, 12:42 AM   #49
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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- Listened to Captain America for 3 hours, about how he has been struggling with the modern world
- Took a 2 hour nap trying to help Barton recollect pre-Natasha punch memories; Thor wanted to have a session with Banner, but Barton told him to get in line
- Played Angry Birds on his iPod while Natasha was babbling about some love triangle
- Finally, couldn't take all the whining anymore, put a bullet in his mouth aaaand .... Hulk sequel
Oh, come on now. No way that Black Widow wastes time talking about love triangles. Like Banner hasn't suffered enough being elected Stark's official unofficial psychiatrist.

I would actually love if every film ended with a Banner tag. I've heard some people complain that it was pointless and I know most fans would rather have something that teases future plots, but that scene made my fangirl heart go... well... .

Especially if you imagine that poor Banner got roped into this impromptu therapy session only after Stark had eliminated every other possibility. Come on, you know that Bruce wasn't Tony's first victim. I honestly imagine there were like eight failed takes.
Rhodes: Yeah, if you recall I was there, Tony. And, you know, I think I would have remembered the part where you took down every one on that ship and fly off into the sunset. I - I can't even believe this, I'm out of here.
Pepper: *Sigh* Tony, I can't listen to this. Some of us have actual work to - I know, and it means so much but I still have - Tony, I'm leaving. No. No.
Fury: Stark, shut the **** up.
Widow: *Raised eyebrow* Do you really want to be telling me this, Stark? Some of us still have a job to do.
Hawkeye: *Glare* Do you really want to be telling me this, Stark? Because I really don't want to listen.
Cap: *Concern* Maybe you should talk to someone about this, it sounds serious not like something you should be using as an autobiography.... *Backs out as quickly as possible*
Thor: Aye! And let me regale you with the tale of the time I - *takes over conversation completely*

Hell, it's Tony Stark. He probably tried to JARVIS about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki822
Hulk may not have spoke in the Avengers, but he was no idiot either. He stood there and waited patiently for Cap to give the others orders, then obeyed Cap's orders. He was also able to work on a team and comprehend what the others were saying an doing. He also remembered Banner's bromance with Tony since Hulk was the one who save IM when he was falling. Personally, I prefer a more intelligent Hulk. Planet Hulk is my favorite Hulk story and he became a freaking King in that story. I also loved Hulk in Avengers: EMH.
I agree; despite his lack of dialog, the Hulk's personality really came through just by virtue of the "acting". I mean, when it comes to the Hulk's characterization there appear to be just under a hundred different schools of thought inspiring plenty of raging fan debates. Yet folks came out of The Avengers pretty awestruck by our lovable jade giant. Joss Whedon managed to strike a hell of a balance (seriously, has anyone checked to see if he's sold anything to Mephisto lately?) by giving us a mostly silent Hulk for those who see him as nothing but Banner's rage personified (or, more accurately, monsterified) who had enough personality that you believed that he could have spoken up at any time if you were so inclined. It was successful enough that I figure Age of Ultron will continue on that same road.

I know A:EMH is a popular property to bring up when looking for an ideal way to portray the Hulk, but honestly it makes a poor comparison. The most obvious reason being the budget. On the commentary track Joss talks about how difficult it was giving Hulk screen time in the battle of New York and it all came down to money issues. Just as major a reason the two aren't comparable is that A:EMH is pretty much Banner-free. Now, I get that I'm totally in the minority here, but I adore Banner. I am one of the few people that doesn't sit around waiting for the Hulk. I would much rather hear Bruce go on about science. That being said, I totally get why they all but removed the Banner element for the show. It's all a matter of balancing the ensemble. And it's a choice that made it necessary for the Hulk to be able to hold real conversations. AoU, on the other hand, is never going to have even the majority of Ruffalo's screen time go to the Hulk. The times you're really going to get to see Hulk speaking is when he's standing around with the others - that's a natural "speaking point". The problem is that when you're going to see the Hulk on film it will likely be during "smashing points" - moments that don't necessarily lend themselves towards being dialog heavy.

I'm actually rather nervous about AoU in terms of Banner's character. Like I said, I'm honestly more a Bruce fan and may be the single person on the planet who isn't constantly rooting for the Hulk to come out and play. However, I am having a difficult time coming up with a role for Bruce to fill. One that doesn't leave him standing alone in the corner with nothing to do. To be completely fair, they haven't actually started production and I have no idea where exactly they are headed with the story. I am sure they have a role for Banner but for now.... Well, it would be a shame if the wasted such a wonderful talent on nothing more than a cameo.

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:22 PM   #50
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Default Re: Ruffahulk Ruffasmash

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I prefer Hulk without real dialogue. When Hulk is capable of operating independent of his seething explosive rage, he becomes cartoonish to me, much less interesting, as Question put it.

The Hulk is a monster, he should be constantly dangerous. That moment in Avengers where Hulk seemed like he was ready to smash Cap just for speaking to him. That's a rage monster. That's a force of nature. A big green lughead playing cards with his buddies isn't really an epic mythic character. It's a gag, on some level.


I couldn't disagree with you more. Hulk is not a monster and is only dangerous when people keep shooting at him. The point is that others think he is a monster.

I prefer the more recent interpretation where banner is the monster and Hulk is the beast.

But hey I don't want to see the Hulk be the most articulate but I wouldn't mind him chiming in and do some nice grunts and hand movements.

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