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Old 09-02-2013, 05:05 PM   #626
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

^ That's quite a list! Good luck with that...lol

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Old 09-02-2013, 05:31 PM   #627
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Your reply wasn't aimed at me, but I want to chime in and say I thought those scenes didn't really work for me either. Neither did the scene in X3 where Wolverine was sobbing over Xavier's empty wheelchair. To me, the acting wasn't very good in these scenes, the emotion didn't feel sincere.

Compare it with the Xavier/Magneto 'serenity/memory' scene in First Class and that felt very genuine, and very well acted.
Or even to the scene at the end of X1 when Wolverine thinks that Rogue is dead and he silently cradles her body. And he didn't even have turn on the waterworks.

In general when you establish a character as this strong silent badass, any strong emotion or tears has to be absolutely earned and he can't just do it at the drop of a hat.

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:33 PM   #628
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Would Be cool if X-factor havoks team appeared in the Next FC sequel

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:29 PM   #629
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

How does Psylocke being in X-Force in any way shape or form confirm Cyclops???

And not to be "that guy", but I'm already seen as "that guy" anyways from the beginning of my stay here - but I'll be hoping that list of things doesn't happen. It's nothing more than a laundry list of comic book details requested with no regard for how they actually fit into the movie continuity.

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:52 PM   #630
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Your reply wasn't aimed at me, but I want to chime in and say I thought those scenes didn't really work for me either. Neither did the scene in X3 where Wolverine was sobbing over Xavier's empty wheelchair. To me, the acting wasn't very good in these scenes, the emotion didn't feel sincere.

Compare it with the Xavier/Magneto 'serenity/memory' scene in First Class and that felt very genuine, and very well acted.
Its the opposite for me. Yes it was well acted but I didn't get why Charles teared up, maybe if they knew each other for a long time, it would work for me.

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:59 PM   #631
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

If Charles was in Erik's head he'd be experiencing the same memory and the same intense emotions. So he'd have the same reaction.

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Old 09-02-2013, 10:49 PM   #632
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If Charles was in Erik's head he'd be experiencing the same memory and the same intense emotions. So he'd have the same reaction.
This.

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Old 09-02-2013, 11:30 PM   #633
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

So he had the same reaction because he was in Magneto's head.

Yeah its really not that emotional.

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Old 09-02-2013, 11:37 PM   #634
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

He had the same reation because he felt what Erik was feeling. Erik's mom died. How is that not emotional LOL

That said, it's interesting that young Erik (and by extension Fassbender Erik) didn't really care what happened to his Dad.

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Or even to the scene at the end of X1 when Wolverine thinks that Rogue is dead and he silently cradles her body. And he didn't even have turn on the waterworks.

In general when you establish a character as this strong silent badass, any strong emotion or tears has to be absolutely earned and he can't just do it at the drop of a hat.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Did you mean you didn't like Wolvie tearing over a lifeless Rogue or you liked it. Sorry just confused by the response and the post you quoted.

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Your reply wasn't aimed at me, but I want to chime in and say I thought those scenes didn't really work for me either. Neither did the scene in X3 where Wolverine was sobbing over Xavier's empty wheelchair. To me, the acting wasn't very good in these scenes, the emotion didn't feel sincere.

Compare it with the Xavier/Magneto 'serenity/memory' scene in First Class and that felt very genuine, and very well acted.
I haven't seen a lot of McAvoy movies but he does the same tear wiping scene in Trance (I just saw the movie, it's quite good!). I feel cheated, almost! LOL

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:28 AM   #635
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So he had the same reaction because he was in Magneto's head.

Yeah its really not that emotional.
Xavier basically felt it. Lived it and experienced it.

There's a reason why Xavier tells Erik throughout the movie that he knows what Erik has been through. It's because when he entered Magneto's mind, it was like he actually experienced those moments and felt Erik's emotions as his own.

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Old 09-03-2013, 08:35 AM   #636
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Those changes would be VERY welcome.
So essentially reboot? I wouldn't be opposed to that idea if it is still apparent that the events of the trilogy leads into the new timeline. It's not that Fox wants to swipe continuity away completely and start with a clean slate, but I think you want DoFP to give you the opportunity to do that, as well as providing other angles for stories within the existing continuity, depending on where Fox wants to go in the future. That's a more realistic expectation. I think subtle changes like Cyke coming back in the alternate timeline, could pave the way for either option: wiping the slate clean vs DoFP limited to predominantly existing continuity.


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Old 09-03-2013, 11:58 AM   #637
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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How does Psylocke being in X-Force in any way shape or form confirm Cyclops???

And not to be "that guy", but I'm already seen as "that guy" anyways from the beginning of my stay here - but I'll be hoping that list of things doesn't happen. It's nothing more than a laundry list of comic book details requested with no regard for how they actually fit into the movie continuity.

Psylocke died in X3. That kind if implies that X3 either didn't happen or the events turned out differently. It's not so much a reboot as much as it is an AU.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:07 PM   #638
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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That said, it's interesting that young Erik (and by extension Fassbender Erik) didn't really care what happened to his Dad.
I think he cared about his Dad. It was just that in the case of his mother he literally saw her shot in front of him, and shot because he couldn't perform the way Shaw wanted him to. I could see how something like that was a lot more traumatic for him. Also, it gave him a more concrete person to seek revenge on: to be able to point the finger at Shaw and say "You're the one who pulled the trigger, and you did it purely for your own reasons" is a lot easier than sifting through the murkiness of responsibility of the Nazi bureaucracy -- especially when you're executing your own justice.

Besides, for all we know, Erik did go after other Nazis at the camp his parents were in.

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Old 09-03-2013, 03:12 PM   #639
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Psylocke died in X3. That kind if implies that X3 either didn't happen or the events turned out differently. It's not so much a reboot as much as it is an AU.
Psylocke barely existed in X-Men 3.

There was an Asian chick with a purple streak in her hair that didn't have any of the same powers as Psylocke, and was never referred to as Psylocke, Betsy, Elizabeth, or Braddock.

Basically, her involvement in X-Men 3 was no more than Beast's involvement in X-Men 2, and using her in a later movie in a proper role is no more a contradiction than Beast in X-Men 3 and X-Men: First Class were to X-Men 2.

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Old 09-03-2013, 03:13 PM   #640
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I think he cared about his Dad. It was just that in the case of his mother he literally saw her shot in front of him, and shot because he couldn't perform the way Shaw wanted him to. I could see how something like that was a lot more traumatic for him. Also, it gave him a more concrete person to seek revenge on: to be able to point the finger at Shaw and say "You're the one who pulled the trigger, and you did it purely for your own reasons" is a lot easier than sifting through the murkiness of responsibility of the Nazi bureaucracy -- especially when you're executing your own justice.

Besides, for all we know, Erik did go after other Nazis at the camp his parents were in.
True, he did have a wall full of Nazi's that he had hunted down and killed.

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Old 09-03-2013, 03:21 PM   #641
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Psylocke barely existed in X-Men 3.

There was an Asian chick with a purple streak in her hair that didn't have any of the same powers as Psylocke, and was never referred to as Psylocke, Betsy, Elizabeth, or Braddock.

Basically, her involvement in X-Men 3 was no more than Beast's involvement in X-Men 2, and using her in a later movie in a proper role is no more a contradiction than Beast in X-Men 3 and X-Men: First Class were to X-Men 2.

I agree I don't feel that role in x3 made any impact what so ever

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:38 PM   #642
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

You know, I just realized that never has Jean once actually told Logan that she “loves” him after he professes it to her, whether it be in “Last Stand” or even in “The Wolverine”, which is ironic because you’d think that in his dream world where she’s all pampered up for him, that she’d say that to him there.lol Was it ever mentioned if she said that she was in love with Scott?


Speaking of which, what was Jean exactly in “The Wolverine”? Was she pretty much what Marion’s character was to Leo’s character in “Inception” where she was just a figment of imagination created by the guilt that Wolverine had from killing Jean? Or was she actually some form of the real Jean that was latching onto Logan from the afterlife, which I would think is a possibility as well considering that she is the phoenix.

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:52 PM   #643
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I think jean was part of imagination because of guilt and that she wasn't really there as she spent alot of time just saying what he wanted to hear

The Phoenix in X3 wasn't the comic version of Phoenix, she was just a very powerful mutant and lacked alot of what the comic version had, Wolverine killed her and probably baried her, there is no did she survive that this time

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:12 PM   #644
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

@Psylock it was maybe one of the worst eff yous to the fans and obviously it was in X3 but let's not open up that can of worms.

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:20 PM   #645
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I think he cared about his Dad. It was just that in the case of his mother he literally saw her shot in front of him, and shot because he couldn't perform the way Shaw wanted him to. I could see how something like that was a lot more traumatic for him. Also, it gave him a more concrete person to seek revenge on: to be able to point the finger at Shaw and say "You're the one who pulled the trigger, and you did it purely for your own reasons" is a lot easier than sifting through the murkiness of responsibility of the Nazi bureaucracy -- especially when you're executing your own justice.

Besides, for all we know, Erik did go after other Nazis at the camp his parents were in.
It's been a while since I've watched FC but I distinctly remember young Erik asking Kevin Bacon where is mother is. But not his father.

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You know, I just realized that never has Jean once actually told Logan that she “loves” him after he professes it to her, whether it be in “Last Stand” or even in “The Wolverine”, which is ironic because you’d think that in his dream world where she’s all pampered up for him, that she’d say that to him there.lol Was it ever mentioned if she said that
She does mention to Wolverine in X2 that she loves Scott.

Jean: I love him.
Logan: Do you?
J: Girls flirt with the dangerous guy Logan. But they marry the good guy.
L: I can be the good guy.

This is where Logan unceremoniously kisses Jean. LOL

J: Don't make me do this.
L: Do what?
J: This. *walks away*

See Jean did make a choice.

And then Ratner shatted all over it all.

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Old 09-04-2013, 12:50 AM   #646
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I'd say more importantly so did ThenEolverine, more so because it is the most recent and jeans parts had presences in the storyline

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:25 AM   #647
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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You know, I just realized that never has Jean once actually told Logan that she “loves” him after he professes it to her, whether it be in “Last Stand” or even in “The Wolverine”, which is ironic because you’d think that in his dream world where she’s all pampered up for him, that she’d say that to him there.lol Was it ever mentioned if she said that she was in love with Scott?


Speaking of which, what was Jean exactly in “The Wolverine”? Was she pretty much what Marion’s character was to Leo’s character in “Inception” where she was just a figment of imagination created by the guilt that Wolverine had from killing Jean? Or was she actually some form of the real Jean that was latching onto Logan from the afterlife, which I would think is a possibility as well considering that she is the phoenix.
Yes, Jean said she loved Scott.

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It's been a while since I've watched FC but I distinctly remember young Erik asking Kevin Bacon where is mother is. But not his father.



She does mention to Wolverine in X2 that she loves Scott.

Jean: I love him.
Logan: Do you?
J: Girls flirt with the dangerous guy Logan. But they marry the good guy.
L: I can be the good guy.

This is where Logan unceremoniously kisses Jean. LOL

J: Don't make me do this.
L: Do what?
J: This. *walks away*

See Jean did make a choice.

And then Ratner shatted all over it all.
Ratner did no such thing.

Jean never once reciprocated Logan's feelings for her. Never once. And it was what she did to Scott that drove her entire emotional arc.

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:26 AM   #648
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I do wonder if at the end of DOFP, Cyclops and Jean are alive thanks to whatever they change in the past.

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Old 09-04-2013, 07:00 AM   #649
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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It's been a while since I've watched FC but I distinctly remember young Erik asking Kevin Bacon where is mother is. But not his father.



She does mention to Wolverine in X2 that she loves Scott.

Jean: I love him.
Logan: Do you?
J: Girls flirt with the dangerous guy Logan. But they marry the good guy.
L: I can be the good guy.

This is where Logan unceremoniously kisses Jean. LOL

J: Don't make me do this.
L: Do what?
J: This. *walks away*

See Jean did make a choice.

And then Ratner shatted all over it all.
I think it would be the studio doing most of the shatting, not Ratner. Jean even pops up as a romantic connection in The Wolverine and ain't no Ratner in that house lol

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:31 AM   #650
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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It's been a while since I've watched FC but I distinctly remember young Erik asking Kevin Bacon where is mother is. But not his father.
Good point.

I suppose it's possible his father was already dead/at another camp, but I can't disagree that the movie seemed to be telling us that he was closer to his mother.

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