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Old 09-03-2013, 01:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

^ Look most of what you are using as your argument are small things. Does it really make a difference that Rhodey was a Colonel in the movie? Does it really matter that it wasn't a gamma bomb in the movie that turned Banner into the Hulk? Does it really matter that Peggy Carter was a UK Major in the movie? Does it really matter that they made Gwen Stacy Peter's high school love and not his college love?

No to most of these things.

Yes, I wasn't extremely happy with Whiplash once he jumped inside an Ironman ripoff suit, but he was pretty cool on the race track.

Overall all of these examples didn't cause everlasting, negative affects to the timeline as many of the X-Men issues have. The fact that at one point it was Pepper that was running Stark Industries didn't cause problems with the timeline. In other words, big deal!

But killing the Blob, making Havok a 20 year old in 1962 (he'd be a geriatric now), killing off Callisto (and making her nothing like the canon), making Psylocke a wimp, the travesty that was the White Queen, and a lot more I'm not remembering; well these hurt the X universe and that is what I don't like.

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:39 PM   #27
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I think FOX is doing the absolute best they can with the franchise, so there doesn't seem much point in rebooting.

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

The directin they went with rhodey totally changed him.I consider him In name
only compared to comic book.It's part of larger patten that many just Ignored
In most but except X-Men to be completly true to 616 version.I also say Gwen Stacy being In high school and not collage Is a major change but her knowing the secret Is an even bigger change

Havok was made Cyclops' older brother In Ultimate X-Men.

Any X-Men reboot would be based more on Ultimate X-Men than 616.A mjaor reason I don't want any X-Men reboot.The marvel studio films are based more
on Ultimates and other ultimate titles.The avengers has been called based on ultimates.People involved with spider-man films themselves have called amazing spider-man based more ultimate Spider-man than classic amazing Spider-man

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Old 09-03-2013, 02:31 PM   #29
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I agree that most of the Marvel movies have been some patchwork of 616 and Ultimate. Personally I believe the 616 is overall better and where these franchises have gone 616 it seems for the better. Gwen, for example is much closer in look and feel to 616 than Ultimate. In fact many believe that they need to give us 616 MJ because they have pretty much given us 616 Gwen.

I would not want an Ultimate reboot. That would kind of defeat the purpose of rebooting. A reboot would be for the purpose of going forward with the 616 stories and fixing all of the inconsistencies, dead characters, bad characters, etc.

Ideally they would give us a 616 universe starting post Giant Sixe X-Men #1 with most things already in place. That is what I would want to see, an X-Universe with Magneto already in Genosha or on Asteroid M, X-Factor already established with possibly Cyclops, Jean, Iceman, Archangel and Beast making up the team, Xcalibre to be formed soon with Nightcrawler, Colossus, Shadowcat, etc. making the team, and the New Mutants being trained at the mansion by the X-Men team of Xavier, Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, Rogue, Shadowcat and Nightcrawler. By going this route you have everything in place and ready for an amazing X-Universe.

- You have a core starting team ready for some change
- X Factor in place
- The New Mutants ready to be taken over by Cable to become X-Force
- Xcalibre ready to be formed by known members
- Established Villains
- And the ability to have present and preluding movies

But you are right about one thing, I too wouldn't want to see a reboot if it wasn't done well, which means if it didn't give us the 616 universe we love!!!!!

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:10 PM   #30
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

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but killing the Blob, making Havok a 20 year old in 1962 (he'd be a geriatric now), killing off Callisto (and making her nothing like the canon), making Psylocke a wimp, the travesty that was the White Queen, and a lot more I'm not remembering; well these hurt the X universe and that is what I don't like.
1. Big deal, Iron Monger, Whisplash, Killian, Abomination were all killed too

2. So? he's not in the 'now' is he. He is in his time-period and works just fine there.

3. Was she ever named Callisto, can't remember?

4. Same as above for Psylocke?

5. Travesty? she was in the hellfire club, under the leadership of the king, had her diamond powers and telepathic powers, wore the same style of clothes, What's the problem?

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Old 09-04-2013, 03:12 AM   #31
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Any X-Men reboot would be based more on Ultimate X-Men than 616.
I disagree. Reboots showcase the opposite of what's come before. They don't repeat it.

For instance, the Batman and Bond franchises ditched the over-the-top antics of Batman and Robin and Die Another Day for the more grounded Batman Begins and Casino Royale. In a similar reversal, Sony replaced Raimi's lighthearted, Ditko inspired Spider-Man films with the more angst ridden (?), modernized Webb films. And, most recently, the light on action, nostalgia laden world of Superman Returns was shown the door by the action packed cinematic re-imagining that is Man of Steel.

So it's doubtful that an X-Men reboot is going to drop the grounded world of the Singer films for the similarly grounded world of the cancelled Ultimate books, especially after audiences have shown a willingness to embrace the more colorful and fantastical elements of the rest of the Marvel Universe.

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Old 09-04-2013, 03:21 AM   #32
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Default Re: This Franchise Needs a Reboot Bad

So basically, a reboot is going to drop the aspects that I like X-Men for, and make a movie that I don't want.

Thanks for giving me more reason to hope against a reboot.

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Old 09-04-2013, 04:07 AM   #33
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Actually, if the reboot is smart, it will balance the best of both worlds and not go too far in the opposite direction, as some reboots are guilty of doing. Beyond that, I refuse to believe that any reboot that incorporates more aspects of the 616 universe, and incorporates them well, is actually going to put you off the X-Men franchise. If you were truly bothered by that, X-Men: First Class would be one of your most hated movies. And, if elements like time travel and mutant hunting robots are such a crime, then why are you clamoring for a trailer to Days of Future Past and posting here now more than you have in years?

Regardless, I see no reason as to why Fox should further ignore the 616 characters and relationships that people have come to know and love for years in favor of a dead series that some may consider even more distorted than the current cinematic universe.


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Old 09-04-2013, 04:20 AM   #34
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Actually, if the reboot is smart, it will balance the best of both worlds and not go too far in the opposite direction, as some reboots are guilty of doing. Beyond that, I refuse to believe that any reboot that incorporates more aspects of the 616 universe, and incorporates them well, is actually going to put you off the X-Men franchise. If you were truly bothered by that, X-Men: First Class would be one of your most hated movies. And, if elements like time travel and mutant hunting robots are such a crime, then why are you clamoring for a trailer to Days of Future Past and posting here now more than you have in years?

Regardless, I see no reason as to why Fox should further ignore the 616 characters and relationships that people have come to know and love for years in favor of a dead series that some may consider even more distorted than the current cinematic universe.
I've gone into quite the detail to explain why I am so excited about Days Of Future Past, and why something like Sentinels is one of my favorite parts of the X-Men universe, and why I have been wanting them in an X-Men film for yeeeaarrrs.

And why would X-Men: First Class be one of my most hated movies?

1.) It is incredibly grounded, even tho yes the "fantasy" is upped quite a bit over Singer's 1st 2 films, but it is still incredibly grounded

2.) It is the furthest away from 616 of all the movies in the series, by far.

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Old 09-04-2013, 07:11 AM   #35
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I've gone into quite the detail to explain why I am so excited about Days Of Future Past, and why something like Sentinels is one of my favorite parts of the X-Men universe, and why I have been wanting them in an X-Men film for yeeeaarrrs.
Why? Because they took sentinels, giant mutant hunting robots that are otherwise fantastical, and made them work in the movies via the framework already established by the books? You've just demonstrated why some elements of the 616 Universe can and do work on screen. And what of the time travel? Does that not bother you either?

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And why would X-Men: First Class be one of my most hated movies?

1.) It is incredibly grounded, even tho yes the "fantasy" is upped quite a bit over Singer's 1st 2 films, but it is still incredibly grounded
First, I don't think I would argue that First Class is "incredibly" grounded. It may not be incredibly over-the-top stupid, like Batman and Robin, but I wouldn't exactly say it's incredibly grounded. Second, "'fantasy' is upped quite a bit over Singer's 1st 2 films" doesn't sound at all like an argument against a tone closer to that of the 616 Universe. A reboot can up the fantasy, much like First Class and Days of Future Past, without delving into utter foolishness.

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2.) It is the furthest away from 616 of all the movies in the series, by far.
Visually and tonally it is not. By those standards, it is arguably the closest. That is my point with regard to First Class.


So, thus far, we have established you don't mind building-sized mutant hunting robots, time travel, fantasy that is upped quite a bit over Singer's first two films, as well as presumably more faithful visuals and a tone that more closely resembles that of the 616 Universe as opposed to the Ultimate Universe. Based on these points, I'm not really sure why you're arguing with me. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my previous post that just because I think a reboot will not redundantly embrace the more grounded nature of the Ultimate Universe doesn't mean I think it will abandon everything that makes X-Men special in favor of the likes of Psylocke fighting the brood in outer space wearing nothing but a thong?


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Old 09-04-2013, 09:47 AM   #36
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We have seen time and time again when it comes to marvel universe studios
want the film to be more like ultimate universe.

Simon Kinberg and Zack penn were told to read ultimate X-Men when writing last stand.Multiple man and Juggernaut were basiclly the ultimate versions In film while In origins Gambit was basiclly the ultimate version.

Let's be honest hulk was actully closer to 616 than Incredible Hulk.Granted tere were some terrable things too.Incredible Hulk Is really based more on ultimate
version and TV show.

Every MS film Is heavily Influenced by Ultimate universe.Now I never said there
wasn't any 616 Influence.Captain America Is best example of 616 hero In MS films.Thor also Is very close to 616.

The amazing Spider-man by their own admentance is based more on Ultimate
Spider-man.Yeah Gwen Stacy Is based on 616 version.They admited that.

Mark Millar has said he has been working more on FF than X-Men films so far.He happened to be writer of Ultimate FF.All signs are pointing to FF being based more on Ultimate FF.and If MS did them It would still be based on
ultimate FF.

Since First Class the X-Men films have been embracing more comic booky elements.

I have little doudt an X-Men reboot would be more ultimate X-Men than 616.

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:30 AM   #37
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Im sure the day the reboot comes, under Fox hands, the new director (if its a hard fan of the comics) will try to give the fans the things they didnt get with the trilogy.

Of course the directors cant give us all at the same time, but Im sure some of the improvements will be a better Cyclops, Rogue more powerfull and active, and more similar to comics look, and more than likely comic costumes.

At the same time, all the movies has great and not so great elements, so there will always be fans that wont like certain changes.

But my main point is if Fox signs the right director, the reboot could be really really good. But we'll have to wait around 10 years to find it out.

I will be there first day in the theatre to see what new version we'll get. The idea is exciting, without doubt. Two X-Men versions in our life is something great in my book.

But for now, I want to enjoy some more movies with these two casts, along with possible XForce.

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:31 AM   #38
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MarvelRobbins:

But your whole argument shows that 616 is better.

You mention how Last Stand was a byproduct of Ultimate and Multiple Man, Juggernaught and Origin's Gambit were all Ultimate inspired. But most of us believe that each of these characters you mention from the movies were horrible. Juggernaught was an absolute joke and a character that they were willing to ruin just so he could run into a wall.

You mention how Captain America and Thor are 616 inspired, and again these are two movie characters that most have agreed were done extremely well.

Personally I don't think it's fair to say that Amazing Spider-man's Peter/Spidey is based oin ultimate. In fact I would argue that he is much closer to 616. You mention how Gwen is 616 inspired, and once again Emma's Gwen is one of the best characters in that movie.

You've now frightened me more about the future of Fantastik Four!

So why, if most of the things that have been positive in the Avenegers, Spider-man, Ironman and X-men have been 616 inspired, would they go ultimate on a reboot?

That would be as bad as trying to go with an Ultimate inspired MJ after going with a 616 Gwen... oh, I see what you mean.

Maybe a reboot isn't the best way to go, unless they can take their heads out of their buttes and accept that 616 is just better!

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Old 09-04-2013, 12:21 PM   #39
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The Raimi Spider-Man felt like 616 but were also heavily influenced by Ultimate.

Green Goblin and Pete energe at the same time, Norman finds out his identity, he's with MJ first instead of Gwen.

In Spider-Man 2 Dock Ock bisually screamed Ultimate.

I thought people didn't like the first Cap & Thor movies?

Either way there's no Donald Blake in Thor and he's more of an Alien than a God

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:08 PM   #40
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MarvelRobbins:

But your whole argument shows that 616 is better.

You mention how Last Stand was a byproduct of Ultimate and Multiple Man, Juggernaught and Origin's Gambit were all Ultimate inspired. But most of us believe that each of these characters you mention from the movies were horrible. Juggernaught was an absolute joke and a character that they were willing to ruin just so he could run into a wall.

You mention how Captain America and Thor are 616 inspired, and again these are two movie characters that most have agreed were done extremely well.

Personally I don't think it's fair to say that Amazing Spider-man's Peter/Spidey is based oin ultimate. In fact I would argue that he is much closer to 616. You mention how Gwen is 616 inspired, and once again Emma's Gwen is one of the best characters in that movie.

You've now frightened me more about the future of Fantastik Four!

So why, if most of the things that have been positive in the Avenegers, Spider-man, Ironman and X-men have been 616 inspired, would they go ultimate on a reboot?

That would be as bad as trying to go with an Ultimate inspired MJ after going with a 616 Gwen... oh, I see what you mean.

Maybe a reboot isn't the best way to go, unless they can take their heads out of their buttes and accept that 616 is just better!
You'll never hear me praise last stand and origins.I would have been fine if those films were superman returnsized out of contunity.It's X-Men,X2,first Class,and the wolverine are ones I will defend.

I always value 616 over ultimate.There are tons of things ultimate in marvel studios films.In the avengers Tony Stark,Black Widow,Hawkeye,Bruce banner,and Nick fury are based more on ultimate versions with Banner also influenced by TV show's david banner.Loki as villain and Captain America and Thor are the 616 influences in the avengers.

I prefer the good X-Men films over the cap and thor solo films.Although I agree captain America Is based on 616 version.Thor Is laregly too except for his being powerless with others thinking he is crazy Is homage to ultimate version.

The amazing Spider-man got the spirit of peter parker/Spider-man.and it can be very well enjoyed by fans of 616 but the sequel looks to be more ultimate influenced than first film with it's take on electrco,rhino,and the osborns.

I have always been weary of mark miller as working on fox marvel films due to him mostly working on ultimate line.But,no matter who reboots FF fox or disney It's bound to be more ultimate than 616.

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:11 PM   #41
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Why? Because they took sentinels, giant mutant hunting robots that are otherwise fantastical, and made them work in the movies via the framework already established by the books? You've just demonstrated why some elements of the 616 Universe can and do work on screen. And what of the time travel? Does that not bother you either?



First, I don't think I would argue that First Class is "incredibly" grounded. It may not be incredibly over-the-top stupid, like Batman and Robin, but I wouldn't exactly say it's incredibly grounded. Second, "'fantasy' is upped quite a bit over Singer's 1st 2 films" doesn't sound at all like an argument against a tone closer to that of the 616 Universe. A reboot can up the fantasy, much like First Class and Days of Future Past, without delving into utter foolishness.



Visually and tonally it is not. By those standards, it is arguably the closest. That is my point with regard to First Class.


So, thus far, we have established you don't mind building-sized mutant hunting robots, time travel, fantasy that is upped quite a bit over Singer's first two films, as well as presumably more faithful visuals and a tone that more closely resembles that of the 616 Universe as opposed to the Ultimate Universe. Based on these points, I'm not really sure why you're arguing with me. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my previous post that just because I think a reboot will not redundantly embrace the more grounded nature of the Ultimate Universe doesn't mean I think it will abandon everything that makes X-Men special in favor of the likes of Psylocke fighting the brood in outer space wearing nothing but a thong?
Maybe because in a reboot, that's all anybody ever wants is colorful comic costumes, cosmic goddess Phoenix, and basically an all around flashier movie with no regard to the human element of X-Men.

I never once said the fantasy didn't belong in an X-Men movie. It's a comic book movie, of course it does.

But the moment it begins to neglect the human element is the moment I check out. And when that's all anybody is clamoring for with a hypothetical reboot... you wonder why I associate reboot with that?

When I say "grounded", I mean that first and foremost, the movies are about the character, and the foundation of the films is a society where these mutants are oppressed and ostracized and the film is built upon that, where the displays of powers, the costumes, and the fantasy elements such as Sentinels and time travel simply enhance that.

But people have been whining since 2000 about how the X-Men movies adapted the source material, and want something that is the opposite, where the film is built around displays of power, colorful costumes, and huge sci fi set pieces, and the humanity of the film is merely an aside to the comic book action pieces.

And if the movies are going to remain serious and based on the human foundation, then why even do a reboot when the last entire series was based around that? It wouldn't be anything new.

There's a reason why I am adamantly against an X-Men reboot - there is literally no purpose that a reboot would serve outside of raking in money for the studio.

And if the recent returns of X-Men: First Class and The Wolverine are anything to go by... the studio won't be raking in tons of money with this franchise anyways. It's definitely on it's last legs and should be coming to a dignified end, not dragged through the mud with pointless reboots and needless spinoffs.

At least by continuing the current series, we can expand into new stories that haven't been told yet, instead of rehashing the same crap over again with a reboot, this time just more colorful

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:19 PM   #42
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The Raimi Spider-Man felt like 616 but were also heavily influenced by Ultimate.

Green Goblin and Pete energe at the same time, Norman finds out his identity, he's with MJ first instead of Gwen.

In Spider-Man 2 Dock Ock bisually screamed Ultimate.

I thought people didn't like the first Cap & Thor movies?

Either way there's no Donald Blake in Thor and he's more of an Alien than a God
Agreed

The amazing spider-man felt more like spirit of classic spider-man.Peter Is actully smart and designs web shooters.Plus amazing Spider-man feels closer to 616 even with changes to how peter got sowraped up in himself and when they did have him cracking wise as spider-man it didn't feel forced like In Rami's films.

Joss Whedon In the avengers did better job with cap and thor than first solo films did.In avengers they felt like 616 versions.

even when MS feels like spirit of 616 they are hardly perfect out of comics version.And their outfits are still laregly inspired by ultimate versions.But,that doesn't bother me just like i have been ok with outfits In X-Men films.

It's getting the spirit of 616 I am more intrested In.None of films are going to perfectly adapt their history.

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:20 PM   #43
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I'm against a reboot but not against an altered reality where things are more 616 esq and Cyclops and Jean returning.

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:30 PM   #44
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Maybe because in a reboot, that's all anybody ever wants is colorful comic costumes, cosmic goddess Phoenix, and basically an all around flashier movie with no regard to the human element of X-Men.

I never once said the fantasy didn't belong in an X-Men movie. It's a comic book movie, of course it does.

But the moment it begins to neglect the human element is the moment I check out. And when that's all anybody is clamoring for with a hypothetical reboot... you wonder why I associate reboot with that?

When I say "grounded", I mean that first and foremost, the movies are about the character, and the foundation of the films is a society where these mutants are oppressed and ostracized and the film is built upon that, where the displays of powers, the costumes, and the fantasy elements such as Sentinels and time travel simply enhance that.

But people have been whining since 2000 about how the X-Men movies adapted the source material, and want something that is the opposite, where the film is built around displays of power, colorful costumes, and huge sci fi set pieces, and the humanity of the film is merely an aside to the comic book action pieces.

And if the movies are going to remain serious and based on the human foundation, then why even do a reboot when the last entire series was based around that? It wouldn't be anything new.

There's a reason why I am adamantly against an X-Men reboot - there is literally no purpose that a reboot would serve outside of raking in money for the studio.

And if the recent returns of X-Men: First Class and The Wolverine are anything to go by... the studio won't be raking in tons of money with this franchise anyways. It's definitely on it's last legs and should be coming to a dignified end, not dragged through the mud with pointless reboots and needless spinoffs.

At least by continuing the current series, we can expand into new stories that haven't been told yet, instead of rehashing the same crap over again with a reboot, this time just more colorful
There Is also a danger of reboot doing less.Amazing Spider-man did less than rami trilogy.Incredible hulk did about the same as hulk.

You could try turning X-Men into avengers wannabe like turning Star Trek Into star wars but you would be losing the heart of X-Men

X-Men's stauts of top selling comic book has been because people like the characters.It's more than display of powers and colorful costumes.

X-men films need to stick to mutant vs mutant or mutants vs antimutant humans.DOFP has so much more than you will ever see In a avengers film.
The going into outer space stories are often my least favorate X-Men stories.

The issues In X-Men tell all we need to know why avengers Is bigger at box office.X-Men deals with issues some don't want to think about.Avengrs especilly Tony Stark Is more cword pleasuring.

Days of future past's box office will tell us where the franchise stands.But it looking like they are still strong overseas with a cult following domesticly.
Ocerseas Is where X-Men films In theatres make their money now.

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:47 PM   #45
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There Is also a danger of reboot doing less.Amazing Spider-man did less than rami trilogy.Incredible hulk did about the same as hulk.

You could try turning X-Men into avengers wannabe like turning Star Trek Into star wars but you would be losing the heart of X-Men

X-Men's stauts of top selling comic book has been because people like the characters.It's more than display of powers and colorful costumes.

X-men films need to stick to mutant vs mutant or mutants vs antimutant humans.DOFP has so much more than you will ever see In a avengers film.
The going into outer space stories are often my least favorate X-Men stories.

The issues In X-Men tell all we need to know why avengers Is bigger at box office.X-Men deals with issues some don't want to think about.Avengrs especilly Tony Stark Is more cword pleasuring.

Days of future past's box office will tell us where the franchise stands.But it looking like they are still strong overseas with a cult following domesticly.
Ocerseas Is where X-Men films In theatres make their money now.
I agree with most of this.

I have no use for a reboot. The X-Men film franchise, as it is, offers me what I want to see from X-Men movies. It might not be perfect, and there were some bad mishaps along the way (Cyclops, Rogue, adamantium bullets, Deadpool - who I don't hate as much as most, but I did really dislike the teleportation and Cyclops eye blasts) but a reboot is only going to come with it's own mistakes.

And I'm sorry, but most of the things that people are clamoring for in a reboot / altered timeline are the things that turn me off of the comics to begin with.

Phoenix being a cosmic entity that eats plants / galaxies is exactly what turned me off of the comic book version of the Phoenix Saga, and maybe that's one reason why X-Men: The Last Stand doesn't destroy my soul so badly is that... I never wanted them to faithfully adapt the Phoenix Saga in the first place, and conceptually, I like the route they took infinitely better than I like the comic version or Singer's alleged version.

Mr. Sinister cloning Scott and Jean, Madelyne Pryor, The Brood, Shi'Ar, StarJammers, Cyttorak crystals, M'Kraan crystals, flying around in space getting caught up in galactic wars... this is where I say "check please".

I'm not saying the films we have are perfect and can't be done better. They absolutely could be. But even if a reboot gets Cyclops right, it's going to get other things wrong. And then people are just gonna whine for another reboot. And what did the reboot accomplish? Nothing.

We have the movie versions of the source material. You still have your comic books that you love so much. I can skip over the issues I don't like so much and read the stories that I do like. We have movies, comics, cartoons, video games, books... we have tons of various takes on the X-Men world.

Why rehash the same crap over and over again?

People complain about the lack of originality in Hollywood, but then come on message boards and cry for a thousand remakes for the same characters over and over and over again.

When Captain America was coming out, the movie hadn't even released in theaters yet before I saw people on these forums asking for a reboot.

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Old 09-04-2013, 01:51 PM   #46
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I agree that the continuity is weak but I really have no desire for a reboot unless it was a straight forward sequel to First Class. Just like RDJ as Iron Man, the actors from these films have become so iconic as their characters that I can't imagine nor do I wish to see a total reboot. (although I loved First Class)

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Old 09-04-2013, 02:34 PM   #47
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Maybe because in a reboot, that's all anybody ever wants is colorful comic costumes, cosmic goddess Phoenix, and basically an all around flashier movie with no regard to the human element of X-Men.

I never once said the fantasy didn't belong in an X-Men movie. It's a comic book movie, of course it does.

But the moment it begins to neglect the human element is the moment I check out. And when that's all anybody is clamoring for with a hypothetical reboot... you wonder why I associate reboot with that?

When I say "grounded", I mean that first and foremost, the movies are about the character, and the foundation of the films is a society where these mutants are oppressed and ostracized and the film is built upon that, where the displays of powers, the costumes, and the fantasy elements such as Sentinels and time travel simply enhance that.

But people have been whining since 2000 about how the X-Men movies adapted the source material, and want something that is the opposite, where the film is built around displays of power, colorful costumes, and huge sci fi set pieces, and the humanity of the film is merely an aside to the comic book action pieces.

And if the movies are going to remain serious and based on the human foundation, then why even do a reboot when the last entire series was based around that? It wouldn't be anything new.

There's a reason why I am adamantly against an X-Men reboot - there is literally no purpose that a reboot would serve outside of raking in money for the studio.

And if the recent returns of X-Men: First Class and The Wolverine are anything to go by... the studio won't be raking in tons of money with this franchise anyways. It's definitely on it's last legs and should be coming to a dignified end, not dragged through the mud with pointless reboots and needless spinoffs.

At least by continuing the current series, we can expand into new stories that haven't been told yet, instead of rehashing the same crap over again with a reboot, this time just more colorful
So with you on the X-Men movies being first and foremost about story and theme over colourful costumes and fantastical elements, that's why i love them they are relatable and cool at the same time rather than just being cool

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I'm against a reboot but not against an altered reality where things are more 616 esq and Cyclops and Jean returning.


No to a reboot but yes to cleaning up the continuity and bringing back fan favourite characters through time travel hijinks

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Old 09-04-2013, 02:40 PM   #48
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A reboot will happen at some point. But for the moment, some better planning and thinking and a better use of characters should do the trick. At present, the radical changes to characters and the various continuity issues are adding up into one big ball of confusion that is annoying Marvel fans and being noticed by casual viewers.

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Old 09-04-2013, 02:53 PM   #49
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Maybe because in a reboot, that's all anybody ever wants is colorful comic costumes, cosmic goddess Phoenix, and basically an all around flashier movie with no regard to the human element of X-Men.

I never once said the fantasy didn't belong in an X-Men movie. It's a comic book movie, of course it does.

But the moment it begins to neglect the human element is the moment I check out. And when that's all anybody is clamoring for with a hypothetical reboot... you wonder why I associate reboot with that?
Except that's not all everyone is clamoring for, and I think you know that.

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When I say "grounded", I mean that first and foremost, the movies are about the character, and the foundation of the films is a society where these mutants are oppressed and ostracized and the film is built upon that, where the displays of powers, the costumes, and the fantasy elements such as Sentinels and time travel simply enhance that.
Where elements such as time travel--time travel--enhance the story. I just want to make sure I read that correctly.

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But people have been whining since 2000 about how the X-Men movies adapted the source material, and want something that is the opposite, where the film is built around displays of power, colorful costumes, and huge sci fi set pieces, and the humanity of the film is merely an aside to the comic book action pieces.
While I don't deny that there are outliers who want little more than to see things go boom, I don't think the majority of reasonable fans are asking that the backbone of the X-Men universe be disregarded.

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And if the movies are going to remain serious and based on the human foundation, then why even do a reboot when the last entire series was based around that? It wouldn't be anything new.
By that logic, why make any sequels at all? Why even bother with X2, let alone The Last Stand or especially Days of Future Past?

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There's a reason why I am adamantly against an X-Men reboot - there is literally no purpose that a reboot would serve outside of raking in money for the studio.
There is no purpose any sequel serves outside of raking in money for the studio...

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And if the recent returns of X-Men: First Class and The Wolverine are anything to go by... the studio won't be raking in tons of money with this franchise anyways. It's definitely on it's last legs and should be coming to a dignified end, not dragged through the mud with pointless reboots and needless spinoffs.
But not before you see the trailer to that next pointless film, right?

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At least by continuing the current series, we can expand into new stories that haven't been told yet, instead of rehashing the same crap over again with a reboot, this time just more colorful
Except that you wouldn't be rehashing the same crap over and over again any more than you would be in sequels. In fact, there is more potential to expand into new stories via a reboot because the sequels are now limited in the stories they can tell because they've needlessly squandered characters in unnecessary roles, like Gambit in X-Men Origins, or so poorly neglected them, like Cyclops, that we've barely come to know them before they're gone. Of course, I think Bryan Singer is aware of the corner the films have painted themselves into, which is why I think he'll most likely take advantage of time travel mechanisms to right past wrongs and help further expand the universe in non-rebooted sequels, but you even seem to be against that too.

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Old 09-04-2013, 04:02 PM   #50
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Except that's not all everyone is clamoring for, and I think you know that.
It's easily the loudest cry on these forums.

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Where elements such as time travel--time travel--enhance the story. I just want to make sure I read that correctly.
Yup. And I have explained why I feel that way. Feel free to go read it sometime if you want to understand where I'm coming from.

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While I don't deny that there are outliers who want little more than to see things go boom, I don't think the majority of reasonable fans are asking that the backbone of the X-Men universe be disregarded.
"Reasonable" is a rarity on the internet. Especially amongst comic book fans. I would say the reasonable fans are the outlier.

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By that logic, why make any sequels at all? Why even bother with X2, let alone The Last Stand or especially Days of Future Past?
Because they tell continuing stories. In the case of X-Men: The Last Stand, it is continuing the storyline that was set up, and not concluded, in X-Men and X2. X-Men Origins: Wolverines picks up the seeds that were planted in X2.

I've acknowledged that X-Men: First Class, The Wolverine, and currently X-Men: Days Of Future Past are largely "unnecessary" in the grand scheme of things, as the movies haven't really been building to this the way they built to X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine. But for me, at least they are maintaining what is important about these characters and their world, and they are building upon that world, not rehashing it.

Well, X-Men: First Class was sort of a rehash...

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There is no purpose any sequel serves outside of raking in money for the studio...
True. There is no purpose of -any- movie other than to rake in money for a studio.

But at least in the year 2000, X-Men was an original cinematic idea. It's following sequels and prequels built upon that world that was built.

An X-Men reboot is not an original cinematic idea. It's a rehash, retelling the same stories that we've already seen done. I would rather movie studios move on to new, original ideas, than re-doing the same stories, same characters, and same movies over and over and over again.

I saw Hulk, I didn't need to see it again. I saw Spiderman, I didn't need to see it again. If I want Star Trek, I want Shatner, Nimoy, Kelley, etc... Not whatever young Hollywood heartthrobs they threw into this new series. I saw Total Recall back in the 90's. I don't need to see Colin Farrell's version. I've seen Terminator, I've seen RoboCop, I don't need to see them again. I saw Fantastic Four, why do I want to see it again?

There's no purpose. Reboots are the absolute lamest trend in Hollywood, and I'm just waiting for the day that they get out of this horrible phase and come up with an original idea for once.

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But not before you see the trailer to that next pointless film, right?


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Except that you wouldn't be rehashing the same crap over and over again any more than you would be in sequels. In fact, there is more potential to expand into new stories via a reboot because the sequels are now limited in the stories they can tell because they've needlessly squandered characters in unnecessary roles, like Gambit in X-Men Origins, or so poorly neglected them, like Cyclops, that we've barely come to know them before they're gone. Of course, I think Bryan Singer is aware of the corner the films have painted themselves into, which is why I think he'll most likely take advantage of time travel mechanisms to right past wrongs and help further expand the universe in non-rebooted sequels, but you even seem to be against that too.
Not really. Because a reboot is going to have to start from the beginning again. Which means rehashing all the same **** we've already seen.

The same way Spiderman rehashed Uncle Ben dying, and rehashed Peter Parker being hopelessly in love with the girl that he hides his identity from but then has to save and then his identity is revealed to her and they fall in love.

It'll be the same **** all over again.

I say this as a huge Cyclops fan, and an even bigger Gambit fan (he's my favorite fictional character period): Who cares?

So their movie treatment wasn't the best? Who cares? That's the movie version. That doesn't take away all of the great Cyclops or Gambit stories in the comic books and the cartoons. That doesn't stop me from using Gambit and Cyclops in all the video games. It's already done. I hate it just as much as anyone, but what's done is done and can't be undone.

And yes, I'm against them convoluting the continuity even further than what people around here already see as jacked up just to needlessly plug Cyclops back into the mix, and removing bits and pieces of continuity just because hey, some people didn't like it. That's horrid storytelling, and that kind of b.s. is exactly why comic books aren't respected as any sort of legitimate literature. Forgive me for wanting the movies of my favorite fictional universe to be seen with some dignity and credibility.

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