The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Captain America > Captain America: The Winter Soldier

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-05-2013, 11:24 PM   #326
jaqua99
....I need a horse!
 
jaqua99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: dont you worry about that
Posts: 6,092
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneakronicity View Post
I am not saying that romance make a female character weak, but that the problem lies in reducing the character to the male lead's love interest, and considering that is all this thread has been about lately it seems very likely that this is how the audience would view Natasha if she did have a romance with Steve. There is a difference between Natasha having a love interest and her being reduced to one, and saying she needs Steve to redeem her or that she should be some sort of hookup for Steve before he moves on to Sharon, or that there should be a love triangle (all things I've seen mentioned, among many others, some much worse) would, IMO, be horrible ideas for her character. Ultimately this is still Steve's movie, and any romance he has it automatically going to peg the character as "Captain America's Love Interest" to many people, it's the nature of the game.
Captain America: The Winter Soldier. It doesn't matter. They will do what they have to do. As long as the give Widow a solid role, she can be "the male lead's love interest" This is CLEARLY Cap's movie.

__________________
hi
jaqua99 is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 12:06 AM   #327
herolee10
S.W. Mourner
 
herolee10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 16,388
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

I don't seem to recall people labeling Catwoman as just being a love interest to Batman in "TDKR" and I don't see that label defining BW when it comes to her association with Steve in this film.

herolee10 is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 12:46 AM   #328
Ms. Marvel
Side-Kick
 
Ms. Marvel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: S.W.O.R.D.
Posts: 2,921
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

I wonder if BW and WS will even converse.

__________________
HAIL HYDRA
Ms. Marvel is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 02:08 AM   #329
xeno000
Raining hell from above
 
xeno000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 7,285
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms. Marvel View Post
I wonder if BW and WS will even converse.
That depends on what you mean by converse. Bucky shoots at Natasha; perhaps bullets can be considered a form of communication.

xeno000 is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:29 AM   #330
xeno000
Raining hell from above
 
xeno000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 7,285
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneakronicity View Post
The problem is that the odds are already stacked against her. She was amazing in the Avengers. She kicked ass, tricked Loki, saved Clint, fought aliens and closed the portal yet there was still a huge percentage of moviegoers, regular fans and professional reviewers alike, who walked out of the theatre claiming she was useless, just a pretty face and a pair of tits in a tight uniform. I don't know what movie they were watching, but I've seen this stated so many times it's painful. So many people have already reduced her to just a useless sex symbol, they don't need further ammo.

I'm sorry, I'm just very protective of our one female Avenger, how she's portrayed and how she's viewed by others. I maintain my personal opinion that this would be a bad move for her character, but clearly I'm in the minority.
You're preaching to the choir, at least in my case. Natasha was just as essential to the Avengers' victory, and it's beyond tiresome to read continued slams against her as "just a little girl with guns". Or "the Avengers' team bicycle," as has been alleged in this thread.


Where we differ is in whether or not a potential relationship with Steve would somehow diminish Natasha's status. That is a common complaint, that being in a relationship automatically reduces a female character to "just the girlfriend" of the hero. In Natasha's case that doesn't have to be so because she has already costarred in two films where her abilities were showcased. She is also using those skills in TWS, fighting alongside Steve and deeply involved in the story. That hardly suggests that she is being relegated to a lesser status.


The writing for the characters will ultimately determine how well they are portrayed, of course. Markus & McFeeley are the team that created one of Marvel's strongest female characters in Peggy Carter and arguably the best romance in any Marvel film. They are likely to handle all of the relationships in the film very well. It seems highly unlikely that they will treat Natasha as anything other than a highly-skilled assassin, whether she is in a relationship with anyone or not.


It's important to consider the flip side of this argument as well. Part of being a fully human, relatable character is having relationships with others. Not just romances but friendships, working partnerships, rivalries, etc., all of the connections which make a character interesting and well fleshed out. To date, Natasha has had very little in terms of real connections to anyone other than on a superficial level. Her lack of emotional connectedness can be seen as making her a strong woman, but it locks her into an isolated role and also prevents the audience from warming to her as a person. Natasha isn't a three-dimensional person yet.


In TWS it sounds like she is going to develop a friendship with Steve and perhaps with Sam, which will go a long way towards making her seem more human. Her scenes with Clint in TA were a small step in the direction of humanizing her, but there needs to be more work done on that. If Natasha is ever going to rate a film of her own she has to be an interesting enough person to hold the audience's attention. Making her a well-rounded person would help in that.

xeno000 is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 04:44 PM   #331
BoredGuy
Killing Time
 
BoredGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: the future past
Posts: 3,621
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

I dont quite understand all the interest in Widow getting her own movie, even in the comics she can't maintain her own title
it would be just like any other brainwashed-spy type movie
It was very disconcerting that Louis D'esposito seemed more hopeful for a BW or Peggy Carter film than for Ms. Marvel

If I wanna watch a spy movie, I'll go watch Bond or Bourne
I wanna see some g.d. superheroes in my superhero movies, call me crazy

__________________
MOVIE STUDIO BATTING AVERAGES:
MARVEL- .800 WB- .412 FOX- .400 SONY- .429


BoredGuy is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 06:18 PM   #332
Ms. Marvel
Side-Kick
 
Ms. Marvel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: S.W.O.R.D.
Posts: 2,921
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by xeno000 View Post
You're preaching to the choir, at least in my case. Natasha was just as essential to the Avengers' victory, and it's beyond tiresome to read continued slams against her as "just a little girl with guns". Or "the Avengers' team bicycle," as has been alleged in this thread.


Where we differ is in whether or not a potential relationship with Steve would somehow diminish Natasha's status. That is a common complaint, that being in a relationship automatically reduces a female character to "just the girlfriend" of the hero. In Natasha's case that doesn't have to be so because she has already costarred in two films where her abilities were showcased. She is also using those skills in TWS, fighting alongside Steve and deeply involved in the story. That hardly suggests that she is being relegated to a lesser status.


The writing for the characters will ultimately determine how well they are portrayed, of course. Markus & McFeeley are the team that created one of Marvel's strongest female characters in Peggy Carter and arguably the best romance in any Marvel film. They are likely to handle all of the relationships in the film very well. It seems highly unlikely that they will treat Natasha as anything other than a highly-skilled assassin, whether she is in a relationship with anyone or not.


It's important to consider the flip side of this argument as well. Part of being a fully human, relatable character is having relationships with others. Not just romances but friendships, working partnerships, rivalries, etc., all of the connections which make a character interesting and well fleshed out. To date, Natasha has had very little in terms of real connections to anyone other than on a superficial level. Her lack of emotional connectedness can be seen as making her a strong woman, but it locks her into an isolated role and also prevents the audience from warming to her as a person. Natasha isn't a three-dimensional person yet.


In TWS it sounds like she is going to develop a friendship with Steve and perhaps with Sam, which will go a long way towards making her seem more human. Her scenes with Clint in TA were a small step in the direction of humanizing her, but there needs to be more work done on that. If Natasha is ever going to rate a film of her own she has to be an interesting enough person to hold the audience's attention. Making her a well-rounded person would help in that.
I couldn't agree more.

__________________
HAIL HYDRA
Ms. Marvel is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 10:36 PM   #333
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,350
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredGuy View Post
I dont quite understand all the interest in Widow getting her own movie, even in the comics she can't maintain her own title
it would be just like any other brainwashed-spy type movie
It was very disconcerting that Louis D'esposito seemed more hopeful for a BW or Peggy Carter film than for Ms. Marvel

If I wanna watch a spy movie, I'll go watch Bond or Bourne
I wanna see some g.d. superheroes in my superhero movies, call me crazy
Yes, variety is a good thing. That is why making movies like IM 3, TDW, TWS, and GOTG around the same time is awesome, because there all very different. Also, BW is a superhero, arguing that she's not is like saying Batman or Iron Man aren't superheroes, they damn well are.

Loki882 is offline  
Old 09-06-2013, 10:37 PM   #334
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,350
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredGuy View Post
I dont quite understand all the interest in Widow getting her own movie, even in the comics she can't maintain her own title
it would be just like any other brainwashed-spy type movie
It was very disconcerting that Louis D'esposito seemed more hopeful for a BW or Peggy Carter film than for Ms. Marvel

If I wanna watch a spy movie, I'll go watch Bond or Bourne
I wanna see some g.d. superheroes in my superhero movies, call me crazy
Oh, and Bond and Bourne aren't the only fictional spies out there, you need to see more movies, your perspective is skewed.

Loki882 is offline  
Old 09-07-2013, 04:57 AM   #335
herolee10
S.W. Mourner
 
herolee10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 16,388
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

You know, if Steve doesn't already know by now, I'd like to see his take/view of Natasha's dark past regarding her former job as having been an paid assassin/killer.

Up until the Avengers, Steve was mainly surrounded by people who were clear cut in being either good or evil, never people so much with lives where they started out as being evil and turned good afterwards. And even in the cases of Hulk and Tony for example, the Hulk was just misunderstood and never really evil, while Tony was just a misguided pain in the ass before his ordeal with the Ten Rings.

herolee10 is offline  
Old 09-07-2013, 03:40 PM   #336
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,350
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

I would imagine that while he'd be uncomfortable with her past, he'd see that she is remorseful and legitimately trying to make up for it. I don't want him to spend the entire film saying how horrible she is. They can discuss it, but should come to an understanding.

Loki882 is offline  
Old 09-08-2013, 11:04 AM   #337
herolee10
S.W. Mourner
 
herolee10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 16,388
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki882 View Post
I would imagine that while he'd be uncomfortable with her past, he'd see that she is remorseful and legitimately trying to make up for it. I don't want him to spend the entire film saying how horrible she is. They can discuss it, but should come to an understanding.
Which is probably why hearing that Widow is going to be one of the few, if not the only one, that Steve feels like he can actually rely on after things go bad with SHIELD due to its inner corruptions and bad networks.

And like others have said, seeing Widow placed in an position where she's actually vulnerable with someone really opens more layers for the character instead o her just being a cold and calculative person all the time.

Plus, if she really does develop something for Steve in the film, I think it says a lot about Steve's character that his personality could be the one that finally allows her to lower her guard down, which is a task in itself.

herolee10 is offline  
Old 09-08-2013, 09:10 PM   #338
xeno000
Raining hell from above
 
xeno000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 7,285
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredGuy View Post
I dont quite understand all the interest in Widow getting her own movie, even in the comics she can't maintain her own title
it would be just like any other brainwashed-spy type movie
It was very disconcerting that Louis D'esposito seemed more hopeful for a BW or Peggy Carter film than for Ms. Marvel

If I wanna watch a spy movie, I'll go watch Bond or Bourne
I wanna see some g.d. superheroes in my superhero movies, call me crazy
Well, I don't understand all the hostility to the idea of Natasha getting her own solo film, so that makes us even.

xeno000 is offline  
Old 09-09-2013, 12:00 PM   #339
BoredGuy
Killing Time
 
BoredGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: the future past
Posts: 3,621
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki882 View Post
Oh, and Bond and Bourne aren't the only fictional spies out there, you need to see more movies, your perspective is skewed.
don't be douchey, I wasn't saying those are the only spy movies ever, just makin a point
and BW is more spy than IM or Batman because she deals with more espionage related things, her best stories are spy stories.
and personally, if I'm gunna only get one female superhero movie in the next 5-10 years, I'd rather it be a character with powers, or just some higher level of uniqueness

and to xeno, I haven't seen much hostility at the idea of a BW movie.
The Marvel guys seem to have a hard-on for the idea, and I'm just stating that she would not be my preference for Marvel's first female solo, that's it, no hostility

__________________
MOVIE STUDIO BATTING AVERAGES:
MARVEL- .800 WB- .412 FOX- .400 SONY- .429



Last edited by BoredGuy; 09-09-2013 at 12:16 PM.
BoredGuy is offline  
Old 09-09-2013, 01:04 PM   #340
H.U.S.T.L.E.
Side-Kick
 
H.U.S.T.L.E.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 836
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

I think a BW movie could be really entertaining actually - the other thing that it has going for it is her fighting style, which is completely different from the rest of the Avengers. She's had some really good action sequences in IM2 & Avengers and I'd love to see more of that... if anyone has seen F&F 6 I'm thinking along the lines of the fight scenes between Gina Carano & Michelle Rodriguez, which IMO were the best action pieces in that movie.

The other thing that would be cool to see is an 'event' episode of Agents of SHIELD - a two-parter with Natasha & Clint that shows their history together would be fun and even could have a feel of a mini-movie.

H.U.S.T.L.E. is offline  
Old 09-09-2013, 01:44 PM   #341
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,350
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

You could also make a BW a Cold War spy thriller if you really wanted to, that could be cool. Also, we could find out what happened between her and Hawkeye in Budapest, and why they remember it "very differently."

Loki882 is offline  
Old 09-09-2013, 02:01 PM   #342
H.U.S.T.L.E.
Side-Kick
 
H.U.S.T.L.E.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 836
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

While I'd love to see them explore BW & Hawkeye in Budapest, I think that would be best explored as an 'event' episode on TV.

My personal preference is that any of the feature film projects should continue to push the narrative and overall timelime forward - CA:TFA should be the only 'out of continuity' film Marvel makes IMO. Especially since the films going forward are dealing with the fallout from Avengers, I feel that it's in the studio's best interest to continue with that line of thinking.

The TV show is a great place to provide these flashbacks that can build upon the characters we've seen in the films. With the buzz surrounding the Agent Carter One-Shot, Agents of SHIELD would be a neat way to show occasional flashback episodes.

H.U.S.T.L.E. is offline  
Old 09-09-2013, 02:35 PM   #343
Kane52630
Bio-Digtial Jazz, Man.
 
Kane52630's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Skynet
Posts: 69,309
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Rider View Post


















__________________
Design of Chaos

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:
Kane52630 is offline  
Old 09-09-2013, 03:12 PM   #344
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,350
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Damn, Scarlett looks gorgeous as a blonde OR a redhead.

Loki882 is offline  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #345
PyroChamber
W.B.B.S.
 
PyroChamber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 13,695
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

I've gotten so use to seeing her with red hair I almost forgot she was a blonde.

__________________
"I hate you, I hate you, I don't even know you and I hate your guts. I hope all the bad things in life happen to you, and nobody else but you."

Quote:
Sometimes, it's so easy, I'm ashamed of myself.
PyroChamber is offline  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:43 PM   #346
Farren
Side Kicker
 
Farren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Under Harvey Dent's Desk
Posts: 2,677
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Wow, she looks absolutely stunning in these. If I were her I would tell my stylist/mu artist to do variations of this for every single event. She looks like a goddess.

Curse you, ScarJo, and your perfect looks, ruining it for us plebe girls everywhere!

__________________
C2: Cyclops Fans - United (2006)
I Believe in Aaron Eckhart
Farren is offline  
Old 09-13-2013, 07:29 PM   #347
Just_Human
Side-Kick
 
Just_Human's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,695
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

I prefer her as a redhead


By the way, do you guys think Nat is gonna be revealed to be a double agent in TWS ?


If not, do you think the bad guys she will face are the organization that trained and brainwashed her ?

A blast from the past would be nice

Just_Human is offline  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #348
cherokeesam
SHIELD Director Coulson
 
cherokeesam's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Cherokee, NC
Posts: 12,047
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_Human View Post
I prefer her as a redhead


By the way, do you guys think Nat is gonna be revealed to be a double agent in TWS ?


If not, do you think the bad guys she will face are the organization that trained and brainwashed her ?

A blast from the past would be nice
Yeah, I think it's inevitable that Tasha has a personal history with all or some of the bad guys here. It gives her a legitimate reason to be in the movie, and adds higher stakes for her personally.

__________________
THE COTTON AVENGERS

...They move like slick cotton on oil.

---Echostation, 3/18/2014
cherokeesam is offline  
Old 09-13-2013, 11:06 PM   #349
xeno000
Raining hell from above
 
xeno000's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Knowhere
Posts: 7,285
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

Scarlett appears to have confirmed that Natasha and Steve have an "intimate friendship," which I'm assuming means that they're friends with bennies. It's a PG-13 film, so all we'll see are a few chaste kisses, which is fine. But I'm looking forward to Clint giving Steve the shovel talk in AoU, as well as Tony needling both of them, Natasha for hooking up with an old man and Steve for finally breaking his 90 year drought.

xeno000 is offline  
Old 09-13-2013, 11:15 PM   #350
Loki882
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,350
Default Re: "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

One thing is for sure, Scarlett isn't putting the kibosh on the Steve/Natasha romance rumors. In fact, everything that she's said seems to add MORE fuel to the speculation fire.

Loki882 is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:36 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.