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View Poll Results: Which do you like more?
Batman Begins 42 51.85%
The Dark Knight Rises 39 48.15%
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:03 PM   #51
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
I think this movie definitely deserved to be 3+ hours, the story was worth it. The fact that Nolan was actually able to whittle it down to 2:45 and make it work is a testament to his discipline and efficiency as a storyteller. If anything, some fans were just left wanting more...but that could actually be taken as a compliment.

I'd say most people (most fans anyway not sure about critics) would've forgiven him if he got a little self-indulgent and let it go over 3 hours. I certainly would've. There's that pesky IMAX reel issue though.

Maybe one day we'll see some more stuff even if it's not integrated back into the cut. That reminds me, Ultimate Collector's edition this month! At the very least, we should have a new retrospective doc and Nolan/Donner interview up on Youtube soon, for those of us who will be resisting the double dip.
As much as I don't care for when it's done, TDKR would of been perfect for a part 1 & part 2. It would of fleshed out everything post Bane's speech in front of Blackgate so well, you're not forced to speed through the whole second and third act. Plus you can add a little more time for Bruce returned as Batman in the beginning instead of taking him out just as he gets back.

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:08 AM   #52
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

I wish I could change to Begins ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:57 PM   #53
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Batman Begins most definitely. The plotholes and some of the wasted potential of TDKR just bring it down a little.

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:41 PM   #54
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Obviously I really like BB, but the closed in, smokey sets, fairly tradtional plot structure and wretched dialogue just don't stack up to the originality, the epic sweep and beautiful cinematography of TDKR.

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Old 09-04-2013, 11:48 PM   #55
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

For me, a big difference between the two is the focus of the story.

Begins is relatively small, but extremely focused. TDKR is grand and epic and all those buzz words, but it has a hard time balancing everything.

Begins is like eating a really satisfying salad.
TDKR is like eating a giant burger where half the toppings fall off before you can get them in your mouth.

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:05 AM   #56
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Push comes to shove, Begins.

TDKR botched what should have been the 2 highest points in the trilogy. (to me at least)..the Returns of Batman. I would even argue that there are so many things in motion during TDKR that many great scenes/sequences/characters get short changed as a result.

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:50 AM   #57
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

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Begins is relatively small, but extremely focused. TDKR is grand and epic and all those buzz words, but it has a hard time balancing everything.
Bingo.

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Old 09-05-2013, 01:07 AM   #58
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Haha, I like your analogy Brain Damage.

Giant burger FTW.

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Old 09-05-2013, 08:08 AM   #59
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

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For me, a big difference between the two is the focus of the story.

Begins is relatively small, but extremely focused. TDKR is grand and epic and all those buzz words, but it has a hard time balancing everything.

Begins is like eating a really satisfying salad.
TDKR is like eating a giant burger where half the toppings fall off before you can get them in your mouth.
That's gold, dude.

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Old 09-05-2013, 08:21 AM   #60
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

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Haha, I like your analogy Brain Damage.

Giant burger FTW.
You is gonna get fat!

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:13 PM   #61
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

LOL some great comments in this thread. For me has to be Batman Begins hands down. It was what i was looking for in a live action batman. Had some great moments where i had butterflys (bruce and the bats,batman and his backup) and others where i was slightly on edge (arkham breakout, bruce's training) great performances from the actors. Really topnotch stuff .

As soon as those bats came flying across the screen forming up the bat logo with a brownish sunset and that dark dreaded music, thats when i thought ' this is it ' What was the surprise of the film for me was the horror type imagery and themes it had. Cranes toxin was the cataylist for that . I loved how batman was conveyed as a devil of the night and certain scenes where i was like ' my god' ( toxin batman with bane) I honestly think they could of dived deeper into that fear, toxin theme but it would of easily crossed the line. Mind you they kinda did with Arkham Asylum ( trippy as hell lol)

Of course the film had its plotholes and sillyness but compared to TDKR we can let that go. I dont even want to start with the downsides of that film because everyone has touched on what i thought was wrong with it. Still had its moments though.

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:17 PM   #62
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

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For me, a big difference between the two is the focus of the story.

Begins is relatively small, but extremely focused. TDKR is grand and epic and all those buzz words, but it has a hard time balancing everything.

Begins is like eating a really satisfying salad.
TDKR is like eating a giant burger where half the toppings fall off before you can get them in your mouth.
Good analogy. I agree, but the Begins salad had its lettuce insipid, its tomato tastes like something else, you take forever to get to the bat-cruton and when you taste it it's barely there, and the onion, much like the dialogue, repeats on.

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:33 PM   #63
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

This thread is starting to make me hungry

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:40 PM   #64
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Ya see, Batman Begins is like Jello puddin...

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Old 09-07-2013, 02:40 PM   #65
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Begins is like a tasteful appetizer that makes you hungry for more. Rises is like a dessert that's too much and too fat. If you want to finish it it's a tough fight and it's no pleasure at all. And if you finished it it leaves you behind with an aching stomache and the feeling that you just had more than enough. This feeling kinda ruins the whole meal before.

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Old 09-07-2013, 02:45 PM   #66
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

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Begins is like a tasteful appetizer that makes you hungry for more. Rises is like a dessert that's too much and too fat. If you want to finish it it's a tough fight and it's no pleasure at all. And if you finished it it leaves you behind with an aching stomache and the feeling that you just had more than enough. This feeling kinda ruins the whole meal before.
hear hear

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Old 09-07-2013, 03:08 PM   #67
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hear hear

Interesting. I never knew there is an English counterpart of the German "Hört! Hört!".

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Old 09-07-2013, 03:44 PM   #68
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Batman Begins is like a stake. Nice and Jucy, there is just a little bit of fat but it's barely there and you can still very much enjoy the meal.

Rises is like Cheeseburger. It starts exciting but the middle is plain and boring, the end of it isn't much better. You enjoy it but there is still a disappointment especially when you have had the nice stake not very long ago.

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Old 09-07-2013, 03:45 PM   #69
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

BB is what got me into Batman, but as years pass i realise more of its problems so i go with TDKR

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Old 09-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #70
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

"Year One" is the comic that got me into Batman (besides "The Killing Joke") so maybe that's the reason I'll stick with Begins as the best Batman movie so far - followed by Batman '89.
And Begins had so many badass Batman scenes. I was missing this stuff in TDK and especially in TDKR.

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Old 09-08-2013, 03:23 AM   #71
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I'm just not getting these "Batman Begins is like a tasty stake" analogies. It's a good movie, a great reintroduction to the character, and it got me super excited for what was to come but it's a very typical, safe, hero's journey tale and it hammers the viewer over the head with irritating Goyerisms ("Feeeeeeeeeear") every chance it gets.

Post TDK/TDKR, Begins is the film that I hesitate re-visiting whenever I think about a re-watch.


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Old 09-08-2013, 12:00 PM   #72
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Begins might be the better batman story but Rises is by far the better film. Better cinematography, action, final act and main villain.

Love begins but Rises wins this by a landslide.

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Old 09-09-2013, 10:21 PM   #73
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The main villain is one of the weakest parts of TDKR. More unintentionally funny than intimidating, with a plan that makes no sense at all and a really underwhelming death. And then suddenly it turned out that he's never been the main villain at all.

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Old 09-09-2013, 11:07 PM   #74
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

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The main villain is one of the weakest parts of TDKR. More unintentionally funny than intimidating, with a plan that makes no sense at all and a really underwhelming death. And then suddenly it turned out that he's never been the main villain at all.
Bane and Talia were the main villains, though Bane had the stronger story. His past, a mirror to Bruce's own, ultimately gives Bane the deepest relationship with Bruce out of all the villains in the Dark Knight Trilogy. The plan itself made plenty of sense if you think about it: Bane's doing what Ra's failed to do, and to greater effect that if Ra's had succeeded. Ra's plan hinged on a drugged populace destroying Gotham. In contrast, Bane simply laid bare the truth behind Harvey Dent and gave the Gothamites the tools to exact revenge. All with constant news coverage, so that the world could see a perfectly sober people devouring their own--eating each other when the chips are down.

Aside from succeeding moreso than his father figure, Bane is a symbol of who Bruce could have become if he'd fully embraced the League's philosophy. Recall Bruce's original intent with the Batman persona: shake Gotham out of its apathy, encouraging Her people to take back their city from a bureacracy that, for the most part, was controlled by Falcone and other mob bosses. In The Dark Knight Rises, we see a very similar situation: a city where the mob element has been virtually eradicated, yet there's still deep-rooted corruption in the city's government. The source of that corruption is the lie Batman and Gordon agreed on in The Dark Knight. The fruit of their duplicity, the Dent Act, unjustly gave the police the authority necessary to finish off a weakened mob. So, if you remove yourself from the notion of "good" and "evil", and look at things in terms of "Order" and "Chaos", a rotten form of Order--the Dent Act-- overthrew the Chaotic elements within Gotham's government, the mob bosses' influence. Cue Bane.

Bane arrives and finds the tools he needs to expose the rotten Justice that has been brought in the form of the Dent Act. This wasn't Bane's stated intent, however. Recall, prior to learning of the Dent Act, he had been taking in the at risk orphans and others who were having trouble finding work in Gotham. Gordon's confession was extra ammunition for Bane's goal of proving himself the worthy successor to the League of Shadows. By giving the poor the means to fight back against the wealthy, and exposing the Dent Act for a fraud, Bane manages to accomplish what Bruce set out to do as the Batman: inspire the citizens to retake their city from the corrupt elements.

Talia's role was much smaller; she served two purposes: a way to create a sympathetic backstory for Bane, and symbol of what Bruce could've become if he had obsessed over his parents' death. Given that she's the grandchild of the Warlord who imprisoned them, and their anger toward the Warlord, it isn't hard to imagine what would've realistically happened to Talia if Bane hadn't intervened. Similar to Bruce with his parents, she became fixated on her father after his death. Bruce wanted to attack the elements that contributed to their death, ultimately. In contrast, Talia wanted to go after the murderer. Recall in Batman Begins, that Bruce restrained himself from killing his parents' murderer. Thus Talia worked to strengthen Bane's backstory and symbolize Bruce's fate if he had decided to simply seek vengeance.

Thus, the main villains' plan does make sense, and they are half of TDKR's strength. The other half being Bruce's arc. I can't say anything about that voice, though. (Also, this is my reason for ranking TDKR as my favorite in the trilogy, with TDK and BB tied; their place in the hierarchy depends on my mood).

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Old 09-09-2013, 11:25 PM   #75
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Default Re: Batman Begins v.s The Dark Knight Rises

Even Bane's creators, Graham Nolan and Chuck Dixon, thought Talia was the mastermind and Bane was the lackey:

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I liked how Bane was portrayed by Tom Hardy, but I'm not a fan of the mask or the fact that Talia was pulling the strings. Bane would not be manipulated by any man...or woman for that matter.
http://www.newsarama.com/18171-bane-...ins-month.html


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