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Old 09-11-2013, 10:54 AM   #76
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

The reasons just weren't that different. Some people enjoy the standoffish introverted personality, some prefer the forward extroverted personality, most people enjoy both at one time or another. Or are you saying young women didn't strongly identify with Katniss because she wasn't a blank slate? That her love triangle is not appealing in the same way that Twilight's was? They took the core of what people enjoyed about Twilight (as opposed to just the setting or surface stuff) and put it in a different setting...

And of course, the great part is, that's not what happened at all, they just made a good story with a young female hero and in that process, several commonalities emerged that can be thought of as parts of a good story with a young heroine.

If Marvel learns from those films, they should also learn that it's not about the fight scenes, but about maximizing the tension, both social and physical, and that its okay for a stronger man to save your female characters to emphasize their vulnerability, and that these characters are best resolved when they win the day with clever resourcefulness, as opposed to beating up the bad guy, again emphasizing that they are both strong *and* vulnerable.

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Old 09-11-2013, 11:30 AM   #77
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

Women identified with Katniss for a different reason. Bella had such little development that they could easily place themselves into that role...whereas Katniss was someone who embodied the qualities they look up to or want to have. Twilight is a story about two hunky men fighting over the reader...The Hunger Games is about having the determination, strength and skill to overcome the odds and the reader being inspired by that.

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Old 09-11-2013, 04:27 PM   #78
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

Dude, Katniss has a whole society fighting over her, in addition to being further into her love triangle than Bella was after movie one. Bella used those same qualities to overcome the odds... in her relationship, and clearly it inspired more than a few readers. They appeal to the same crowd in the same numbers for the same reasons. You're talking about surface stuff and why guys don't like Twilight.

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Old 09-11-2013, 04:58 PM   #79
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

I don't know about the USA but around here there are many male fans who enjoy Twilight, and most who went to see The Expendables 2 didn't go watch The Avengers, they liked old school action with guns, not super heroes fighting aliens and an entire hour of character development.

Major diference between Twilight and The Hunger Games is that THG is much better written, as is the main character and plot, Katniss has a society fighting for her? Not really, her acts inspired a revolution, and unlike with Bella, with Katniss actions have consequences. As the following movies will show she won't exactly have a sugar coated happy ending.

And Marvel has mostly caught this demographic already, their movies have a lot of female fans, Robert Downey Junior has captivated people, she has many fan girls due to his personality, So does Captain America for that matter, Thor obviously has Loki and Thor himself idn't that far behind in fangirls.

If anything it's in the comics that they need to get a bigger female audience.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:19 PM   #80
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

And frankly, you're talking about the relationship stuff, which was a minor subplot in The Hunger Games. Twilight was ALL love story. Iron Man 3 is more of a love story than The Hunger Games...yet you likely don't define that movie by the love story. As Lord mentioned, Katniss is basically leading/inspiring a revolution. She happens to like a guy at the same time.

You are basically suggesting that all female lead characters are defined by their love story...and that is not the path that Marvel should go down. Yes, cast a cute guy to develop into a love interest (because every freaking movie has to). But the point should be to have a strong leading character that is NOT scantily clad and constantly showing off slow motion butt and boob shots.


Last edited by Heretic; 09-11-2013 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 09-11-2013, 05:51 PM   #81
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

I completelly agree, which is one of my problems in the Wonder Woman costume thread, one interviewer once asked George R R Martin how he writes women so well, he says that he doesn't think he's writting women, he thinks he's writting characters.

About romance in The Hunger Games i also think it was better handled there than in Twilight, it's simply better devoped and more complex, she liked a boy who she knows since youth and has to act as if she liked another one in order to survive. The Relationship between the fake lovers also starts to grow, as a man i think it is quite well done, and frankly, with so many movies where with all hot female characters after the main male i don't think it's a problem to have more female oriented films.

As i said though, Marvel has succeeded in interesting the female audience, i see as many fan girls invested as men, i just hope Marvel keeps it going this way.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:10 PM   #82
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

Runaways is clearly Marvel's teen demographic entry.

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Old 09-11-2013, 07:01 PM   #83
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

You don't think Marvel Films are popular with teenagers?

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Originally Posted by childeroland View Post
Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 09-11-2013, 08:56 PM   #84
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

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You don't think Marvel Films are popular with teenagers?
Didn't say that. Was just trying to think of a property that catered specifically to this demographic.

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Old 09-11-2013, 10:13 PM   #85
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

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Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Hmmm... since you picked me to necro I'm not at all convinced that women are strongly interested in Marvel films on their own. If the majority were women, that would support that statement, but 40% could be any mixture of independent interest, tagalongs, compromises and bandwagoning. Bringing the guys often brings the women.

Your reasoning might make sense if the demographic breakdown for Marvel's audience were more like that of the Twilight films. Twilight's demo breakdown is 80/20 females to males, which clearly shows that males are not drawn to the franchise. In contrast, THG's demos are almost the exact reverse of Marvel's, 61/39 female to male, where Marvel draws 60/40 male to female. In both of those instances, the franchises draw most of their audience from one sex but also have appeal for the opposite sex.


Another interesting thing about Twilight is that women over 25 made up the largest portion of its audience, rather than teen/tween girls. Fot THG, the age split was 56% older than 25, 44% younger. Both of those facts are mildly surprising to me since conventional wisdom (and the premise of this thread) is that both franchises cater primarily to the young female crowd. Statistics prove that this assumption is a bit off the mark.


Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor and Loki all have female fans, just as Katniss has male ones. Bella and her sparkly vampires only had females in their corner, however, with a few males caught up in the maelstrom.

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Old 09-11-2013, 10:25 PM   #86
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

Makes total sense. No one is more likely to want to place themselves in a love triangle with two sexy men who are hopelessly in love with her more than lonely, unhappy or unsatisfied women.

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Old 09-12-2013, 01:07 AM   #87
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

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Originally Posted by Lord View Post
I don't know about the USA but around here there are many male fans who enjoy Twilight, and most who went to see The Expendables 2 didn't go watch The Avengers, they liked old school action with guns, not super heroes fighting aliens and an entire hour of character development.

Major diference between Twilight and The Hunger Games is that THG is much better written, as is the main character and plot, Katniss has a society fighting for her? Not really, her acts inspired a revolution, and unlike with Bella, with Katniss actions have consequences. As the following movies will show she won't exactly have a sugar coated happy ending.

And Marvel has mostly caught this demographic already, their movies have a lot of female fans, Robert Downey Junior has captivated people, she has many fan girls due to his personality, So does Captain America for that matter, Thor obviously has Loki and Thor himself idn't that far behind in fangirls.

If anything it's in the comics that they need to get a bigger female audience.
I'd agree with the bold. But her inspiring a revolution and people fighting for her aren't actually different things. I don't think the numbers support the idea that they've mostly got this demographic simply because they have got some of this demographic.

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And frankly, you're talking about the relationship stuff, which was a minor subplot in The Hunger Games. Twilight was ALL love story. Iron Man 3 is more of a love story than The Hunger Games...yet you likely don't define that movie by the love story. As Lord mentioned, Katniss is basically leading/inspiring a revolution. She happens to like a guy at the same time.

You are basically suggesting that all female lead characters are defined by their love story...and that is not the path that Marvel should go down. Yes, cast a cute guy to develop into a love interest (because every freaking movie has to). But the point should be to have a strong leading character that is NOT scantily clad and constantly showing off slow motion butt and boob shots.
This "minor subplot" in THG caused her to win the Hunger Games in a way that made her a revolutionary, which then sets up for a love triangle that will define the fate of the world, basically. It's very much love-interest driven.

IM3 was similar in that the regard, except with only one love interest. People may not have noticed or felt that the plot was largely driven by his relationship, but it most certainly was, that's why his argument with the bad guy wasn't about the fate of the world, it was about his girl, and why it was so satisfying for his girlfriend to beat the bad guy.

What I am directly observing is that these characters that appeal to this demographic have love triangles that strongly influence the plot. Nothing less, nothing more. Don't minimize it to just having "a" love interest or expand it to defining the character, that's not what was said, so there's no reason to take that away as your understanding of what was said.

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Originally Posted by xeno000 View Post
Your reasoning might make sense if the demographic breakdown for Marvel's audience were more like that of the Twilight films. Twilight's demo breakdown is 80/20 females to males, which clearly shows that males are not drawn to the franchise. In contrast, THG's demos are almost the exact reverse of Marvel's, 61/39 female to male, where Marvel draws 60/40 male to female. In both of those instances, the franchises draw most of their audience from one sex but also have appeal for the opposite sex.


Another interesting thing about Twilight is that women over 25 made up the largest portion of its audience, rather than teen/tween girls. Fot THG, the age split was 56% older than 25, 44% younger. Both of those facts are mildly surprising to me since conventional wisdom (and the premise of this thread) is that both franchises cater primarily to the young female crowd. Statistics prove that this assumption is a bit off the mark.


Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Thor and Loki all have female fans, just as Katniss has male ones. Bella and her sparkly vampires only had females in their corner, however, with a few males caught up in the maelstrom.
Interesting. Thank you for looking that stuff up. (Where do you find those kinds of numbers, btw?) It sounds like the audience is different than what we thought it was, but the principles discussed still seem to apply.

The same reasoning goes for THG and the male audience, yes, there are male fans, but that number could also be any mixture of compromises and bandwagons. To take that this movie didn't turn off dudes like Twilight did and then say that, thus, it has strong appeal with guys, I don't think that's the right way to put it. Because if the movie didn't appeal to women, I don't think as many guys would have gone and seen it. Same with Avengers on the opposite hand.

No one's arguing that these movies don't have fans of the opposite sex... but I don't buy that every man that went to see THG was a Katniss fan, nor was every woman that went to see Avengers a fan of whoever. What I think the goal of the thread is to get those women (whatever age they are) to come out in Twilight/Hunger Games numbers to a Marvel film, while keeping the guys. That would be a blockbuster movie, that would be a female actioner that made a billion dollars. That's the golden bell. Can it be rung... because it's not being rung now, even though there are some female fans of Avengers.

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Makes total sense. No one is more likely to want to place themselves in a love triangle with two sexy men who are hopelessly in love with her more than lonely, unhappy or unsatisfied women.
Ouch. That's a little harsh. Can't people just like a good love story? A little desirability wish fulfillment? And why older women gotta be single? Dang.

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Old 09-12-2013, 04:53 AM   #88
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

40% of the audience of the Avengers is a big number, possibly as big as the number of women that went to see the twilight movies, so yeah, i think it has caught the female audience very well. They have made all this success because they appeal to various markets.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:17 AM   #89
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

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Makes total sense. No one is more likely to want to place themselves in a love triangle with two sexy men who are hopelessly in love with her more than lonely, unhappy or unsatisfied women.


Those stories are escapism for women in the same way that superhero comics with their fantasies of exaggerated physical prowess and perfection are escapism for males. Women just tend to like some romance with their tales of heroic action.

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Old 09-12-2013, 10:36 AM   #90
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Default Re: The Twilight/Hunger Games demographic

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40% of the audience of the Avengers is a big number, possibly as big as the number of women that went to see the twilight movies, so yeah, i think it has caught the female audience very well. They have made all this success because they appeal to various markets.
And possibly not?

But you do happen to have a point, based on xeno's percentages, the number of women at Avengers isn't *that* much less than the number of women at Twilight. That said... are they the same women, or does it matter? Women are women, so there?

THG is one film that went after that crowd, and certainly did better than the first Twilight film, so we'll see how it does over four films. If it doubles like Twilight's series did, then THG on its own will be in the 1.5 billion range, and likely with that same 60/40 ratio, and then perhaps we'll have this discussion again about how Avengers' 40% female audience does not capture the female audience like films aimed at that audience do.

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