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View Poll Results: Worst MCU movie so far?
Iron Man 0 0%
Iron Man 2 68 39.53%
Iron Man 3 39 22.67%
The Incredible Hulk 38 22.09%
Thor 11 6.40%
Captain America: The First Avenger 10 5.81%
The Avengers 6 3.49%
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:08 PM   #76
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

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Originally Posted by TheHeatKitchen View Post
Tony remotely controlling the Mark XLVII during the Air Force One rescue had no risk to Tony himself (and where did the headset come from?).
He uses it in the first 10 minutes, if I remember correctly. Obviously he made it between films. It's not a problem when he makes a bunch of new suits between films so I don't see why the headset would be a problem.

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Old 09-15-2013, 11:55 PM   #77
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

Iron Man 2. Though The Incredible Hulk and Captain America aren't exactly good. Not even close.

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Old 09-16-2013, 12:43 AM   #78
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

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I thought the Lizard was alright. Having no snout is better than having him a dinosaur, it would look very silly if he talked like that. They went for this humanoid-lizard idea which made sense has he wanted to enhance humanity, not turn them into dinosaurs. The only crime was not showing his family but even at that there were attempts to sympathise him.

Green Goblin's costume looked ridiculous and the mask meant you could not see his facial expressions, at least having no snout meant it was easy to do that. The Lizard had a plan, GG had a complete turn around and wanted to "rule the city" which is never fully explored.
Green Goblin might have been a more entertaining villain but quality wise they were both pretty average.
Green Goblin at least felt menacing and appropriately nasty in how he dealt with Peter in that savage beating, how he threatened MJ, and was still sympathetic with his relationship to Harry and PEter.

As a fan of the Lizard, they got NOTHING right. Visually, removing the coat caused him to lose that Ditko funk and turn into a generic CGI monster. But as a character not only does losing the family make him unsympathetic, it ruins his unique relationship with Peter. Peter is friends with the Connor family and is actively trying to NOT HURT Lizard, but rather save his friend underneath. It is tragic and it is a very different hero/villain dynamic.

This is why the adaptation was a failure on every level.

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Old 09-16-2013, 08:25 AM   #79
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

If I *had* to rank 'em...

1. The Avengers
2. Iron Man
3. Captain America
4. Iron Man 3
5. The Incredible Hulk
6. Thor
7. Iron Man 2

While I still consider Iron Man 2 a good film, it gets the short end of this straw when it comes to this particular question.

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Old 09-16-2013, 08:59 AM   #80
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He uses it in the first 10 minutes, if I remember correctly. Obviously he made it between films. It's not a problem when he makes a bunch of new suits between films so I don't see why the headset would be a problem.
I think the question was how did Tony get the head set to use on the East Coast when the last we saw it it was in his lab on the West Coast and assumed lost in the destruction of his house. Obviously he was capable of making such a device between movies, but are we to expect that he was able to assemble one from odds and ends in the kids garage? Maybe it was inside the helmet of the suit he had with him...

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Old 09-16-2013, 07:26 PM   #81
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

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Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
Green Goblin at least felt menacing and appropriately nasty in how he dealt with Peter in that savage beating, how he threatened MJ, and was still sympathetic with his relationship to Harry and PEter.

As a fan of the Lizard, they got NOTHING right. Visually, removing the coat caused him to lose that Ditko funk and turn into a generic CGI monster. But as a character not only does losing the family make him unsympathetic, it ruins his unique relationship with Peter. Peter is friends with the Connor family and is actively trying to NOT HURT Lizard, but rather save his friend underneath. It is tragic and it is a very different hero/villain dynamic.

This is why the adaptation was a failure on every level.
QFT

The Lizard was my favorite Spidey villain as a kid,partly for his unique look.They couldn't have come off with a worse look for the character if they tried.

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Old 09-16-2013, 07:36 PM   #82
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Except that Norman ISN'T sympathetic, he's a cruel evil bastard rather he's the Goblin or not. The movie got that wrong. Also, the GG had ZERO motivation in that movie, or if he did, he never told us. At least the Lizard had an ACTUAL plan, a comic book accurate plan actually. The Lizard looked like Ditko's design, just without the coat. He's a man who grows into a giant lizard creature, the lab coat not tearing off immediately is pushing things. This is a movie, the lab coat was used, just in a way that fit the tone. I wasn't a fan of removing the Lizard's family either, but it didn't make him less sympathetic to me. He was a good man trying to rid the world of disease and physical ailments who was pushed to the point that he made one stupid mistake and things when to Hell from there. Also, Peter being friends with CONNORS is what's important, not being friends with his family.

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Old 09-16-2013, 09:46 PM   #83
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

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Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
Green Goblin at least felt menacing and appropriately nasty in how he dealt with Peter in that savage beating, how he threatened MJ, and was still sympathetic with his relationship to Harry and PEter.

As a fan of the Lizard, they got NOTHING right. Visually, removing the coat caused him to lose that Ditko funk and turn into a generic CGI monster. But as a character not only does losing the family make him unsympathetic, it ruins his unique relationship with Peter. Peter is friends with the Connor family and is actively trying to NOT HURT Lizard, but rather save his friend underneath. It is tragic and it is a very different hero/villain dynamic.

This is why the adaptation was a failure on every level.
Spot on, I was very disappointed in The Lizard we got in ASM because he was one of my favourite villains, he just seemed a generic monster and thats never been what the character is about.

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Except that Norman ISN'T sympathetic, he's a cruel evil bastard rather he's the Goblin or not. The movie got that wrong. Also, the GG had ZERO motivation in that movie, or if he did, he never told us. At least the Lizard had an ACTUAL plan, a comic book accurate plan actually. The Lizard looked like Ditko's design, just without the coat. He's a man who grows into a giant lizard creature, the lab coat not tearing off immediately is pushing things. This is a movie, the lab coat was used, just in a way that fit the tone. I wasn't a fan of removing the Lizard's family either, but it didn't make him less sympathetic to me. He was a good man trying to rid the world of disease and physical ailments who was pushed to the point that he made one stupid mistake and things when to Hell from there. Also, Peter being friends with CONNORS is what's important, not being friends with his family.
GG didnt need a motivation in the movie, it was stated earlier one of the side-effects of the serum was insanity, he did a lot of insane things in the movie, that was his motivation.

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Old 09-17-2013, 05:59 AM   #84
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Joker was freaking insane, yet they managed to show us how he plans to throw the city into chaos. Green Goblin was just all like "Conquer the City!", but how? Just by blowing **** up? Connor's formula drove him nuts too, but at least he had a firm plan, how to accomplish his goal.

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Old 09-17-2013, 06:24 PM   #85
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*cough* Admittedly, I do ask myself the question "What exactly is Osborne's goal?" these days. Did he really expect that periodically rampaging would somehow let him rule the city, as opposed to eventually having the national guard show up with helicopter gunships and eventually shoot him down?

It stands out, compared with all the other villains. Sure, Doc Ock is insane, but even still his goal was achievable, or at least not logically self-negating.

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Old 09-17-2013, 06:29 PM   #86
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

In the animated series,it was Hobgoblin's goal to take over Kingpin's crime empire,and while there was no real information to that effect in the movie,that was my general assumption.GG was looking to move in on organised crime.

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Old 09-17-2013, 06:37 PM   #87
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There just isn't the slightest hint that he's doing that. Blowing up his old contracts and bosses, doesn't exactly telegraph that his plan is to take over organized crime.

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Old 09-17-2013, 06:53 PM   #88
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Why does every villain need to have a plan now? Expecially when most of them just involve the villain spraying a city with a magic gas. Green Goblin was insane, at first he wanted revenge against his old contractors and bosses, after that he decided to torment and destroy Spider-Man. Not everybody needs a single goal, or one at all for that matter.

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Old 09-18-2013, 12:06 AM   #89
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

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Why does every villain need to have a plan now? Expecially when most of them just involve the villain spraying a city with a magic gas. Green Goblin was insane, at first he wanted revenge against his old contractors and bosses, after that he decided to torment and destroy Spider-Man. Not everybody needs a single goal, or one at all for that matter.
Spot on, the guy was insane, he was mass murdering people and did all kinds of other insane **** because he was nuts, hence Spidermans declaration that somebody had to stop, as a lot of innocents, had already, and more were going to die.

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:14 AM   #90
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"Does random stuff because Insanity!" is boring. Its not a motive so much as a complete lack of motive. And the bigger problem with Osborne was that he *wasn't* just following random vengeful whims. He specifically wanted Spider-man to join him, so that they could "rule the city." His words. Which means answering the question "How exactly are you going to rule the city?" is kind of important.

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Old 09-18-2013, 12:01 PM   #91
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I actually thought Marvel Studios had four good movies and three Ok to bad ones
My rankings
Good/Great/Amazing
Iron Man
The Avengers
The Incredible Hulk (I know many will disagree)
The Ok
Captain America
Mediocre
Iron Man 2
Bad
Iron Man 3
Add Thor in the OK pile and I agree with this^

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Old 09-18-2013, 12:10 PM   #92
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I do have to agree that Osborne's plot isn't a great, or even good one. It is actually one of my biggest problems with Spider-Man 1. But he's still a dangerous, interesting, well-written character. I'd rather have a great villain with nonsensical ambitions, than a boring one with a lame plot like Lizard.

Lizard's scheme isn't what makes him a lame villain, it only contributes to it. Magneto in X1 was a great villain with essentially the exact same plot. The difference being that Magneto was otherwise a well written, well acted, fearsome, yet sympathetic villain. The best character in the X-Men films in fact. Lizard was none of those things, which is where the real difference lies.


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Old 09-18-2013, 12:19 PM   #93
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I actually thought Marvel Studios had four good movies and three Ok to bad ones
My rankings
Good/Great/Amazing
Iron Man
The Avengers
The Incredible Hulk (I know many will disagree)
The Ok
Captain America
Mediocre
Iron Man 2
Bad
Iron Man 3
Add Thor in the OK pile and I agree with this^

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Old 09-18-2013, 12:35 PM   #94
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Default Re: Worst Marvel Studio's movie so far?

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I do have to agree that Osborne's plot isn't a great, or even good one. It is actually one of my biggest problems with Spider-Man 1. But he's still a dangerous, interesting, well-written character. I'd rather have a great villain with nonsensical ambitions, than a boring one with a lame plot like Lizard.

Lizard's scheme isn't what makes him a lame villain, it only contributes to it. Magneto in X1 was a great villain with essentially the exact same plot. The difference being that Magneto was otherwise a well written, well acted, fearsome, yet sympathetic villain. The best character in the X-Men films in fact. Lizard was none of those things, which is where the real difference lies.
His plan was straight from the comics, in fact it was in one of his earliest stories.

While I would want a small snout I thought the huminoid-lizard who wanted to remove "all weakness" and "enhance" humanity more interesting than the Jurrasic Park Dinosaur-mindless-killing machine that more recent potrayals have had him.
Having no snout is better than a large one. He doesn't look silly while talking and can show emotion.

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Old 09-18-2013, 01:04 PM   #95
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IM3. Just wasn't that exciting and enjoyable as the other films for me. Plus it doesn't have as high of a rewatchability factor like all the others do. I'm not even going to get into the whole Mandarin ordeal, but that film is just a giant sour grape in my eyes.

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Old 09-18-2013, 02:45 PM   #96
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His plan was straight from the comics, in fact it was in one of his earliest stories.
In the comics Peter Parker sold his wife to the devil and Gwen Stacy had kids with Norman Osborne. Just being in the comics doesn't make it good.

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Old 09-18-2013, 03:27 PM   #97
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True, but the Lizard plot was, and it fit his character. Even after transforming, Connors first instinct was still to help people. Its just that because of the Lizard, his version of "helping" had become twisted and horrific, its quite interesting. Much more so than "I'm a monster who eats by own son" Lizard in today's comics.

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Old 09-18-2013, 03:51 PM   #98
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In the comics Peter Parker sold his wife to the devil and Gwen Stacy had kids with Norman Osborne. Just being in the comics doesn't make it good.
I did not see anything wrong with the plan. When doing the Lizard they had two options:
1) Give him a unique plan with a clear motivation- "enhance humanity"
2) Another "hehe let's just kill people!"

I found the Lizard's plan more interesting than a climax of him just simply killing people.

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Old 09-19-2013, 03:47 PM   #99
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Iron Man 3. Although Iron Man 2 wasn't much better.

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Old 09-19-2013, 03:50 PM   #100
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I do have to agree that Osborne's plot isn't a great, or even good one. It is actually one of my biggest problems with Spider-Man 1. But he's still a dangerous, interesting, well-written character. I'd rather have a great villain with nonsensical ambitions, than a boring one with a lame plot like Lizard.

Lizard's scheme isn't what makes him a lame villain, it only contributes to it. Magneto in X1 was a great villain with essentially the exact same plot. The difference being that Magneto was otherwise a well written, well acted, fearsome, yet sympathetic villain. The best character in the X-Men films in fact. Lizard was none of those things, which is where the real difference lies.
Green Goblin didn't have a plan, actually. At all. I mean, after killing the board members. Killing them was about all Goblin was given to do. Which makes me say he wasn't well written at all (not to mention things such as "We'll meet again, Spider-man!" or "Finish it!").

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